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Things like paying for race changes should be illegal.

2

Comments

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Psychow

    People sould read this before getting married!!

    By "How to avoid losing half of your money" or the alternate title "How much did that night with the blonde really cost?"

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • miscrpgdudemiscrpgdude Port Coquitlam, BCPosts: 28Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ashen_X
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Think about it. Paying a company $20+ dollars to run an automatic script to change one variable.

    Complete robbery.

    How can a player be engaged in robbery if he is the one choosing to pay for the service ?

     

    For that matter, how can it be robbery if paying for the service is completely consensual ?

     

     

    Think about it. Paying a company for a service that you desire.

    Capitalism.

    Not that I am going to get all spasmic on this paticular topic, but I do really wish that people who have no clue what capitalism is would stop using the word.

  • xenogiasxenogias warsaw, INPosts: 1,926Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Think about it. Paying a company $20+ dollars to run an automatic script to change one variable.

    Complete robbery.

    The world would be a better place without people who say stuff like this.

  • MagnetiaMagnetia SydneyPosts: 1,029Member Uncommon
    Blizzard: Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of ALL MY MONEY!

    Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  • JagaridJagarid West Covina, CAPosts: 415Member

    You are not paying them for their time to do the race change.  As you said, it's very quick and easy.

    You are paying them for saving YOUR time.  Long ago, people who played MMOs had to make sure they made the right decisions for their characters.  They better pick the race, class, and build that they wanted, or they would end up having to start over at level 1 with a new character to change it.

    Then someone decided that they would take the time to actually develop a process to save the players that effort.  But, as with any software, developing it takes resources so to sell it to their bosses they said:

    "Hey! We are saving the players all that time they would have to spend leveling a new character, I'm sure we could charge for it."

    And lo, the ability to pay for a race change was born.

    If you don't like it, as others have said, the option we used in days gone by is still available.  Start a new character.

  • rissiesrissies aurora, COPosts: 161Member
    Paying for convenience is the cornerstone of today's consumer experience.
  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Think about it. Paying a company $20+ dollars to run an automatic script to change one variable.

    I tend to think of the price as being a fine for people being willing to pay $20 dollars to have one variable changed on their characters.

  • zethcarnzethcarn Kentucky, KYPosts: 1,558Member
    It's supply and demand.  If people are willing to pay $20 for a race change,  Blizzard (and other companys) will keep charging that price.  Very simple concept.
  • jaybird50jaybird50 colorado springs, COPosts: 22Member

    I sadly shook my head at this post... Talk about an entitled generation...

    Words mean things people. The poster feel's that he/she is being robbed because his/her entertainment is not going the way he/she likes. Here is a loose term for the word Robbery

    is the crime of taking or attempting to take something of value by force or threat of force or by putting the victim in fear. At common law, robbery is defined as taking the property of another, with the intent to permanently deprive the person of that property, by means of force or fear.

    Now , you make think that is price gouging or greedy, but then DONT PAY IT. If you complain about paying for something that in no way can you make the argument than you even need in life, for anything other than entertainment , then you sir/maam are exactly what the world does not need.

    Sorry if thats to harsh. But if you were my kid and I read that post I would spank you.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    There's another side to this players are fickle, FOTM anyone? and also love to abuse systems so if you offer class, name, server changes for free you you know as much as night is dark players will abuse it to kingdon come and that sucks up the resources of the company, so new content is made slower thus probably losing customers along the way. Now stick a monetary value on the service and Joe gamer thinks twice about it and probably, as many gamers are cheapskates, decides against it or maybe they go for it the money then earned goes to having someone actually do the job and not suck resources from other parts of the game and thus company makes a profir ensuring the games survives another year. BINGO!   

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • BizkitNLBizkitNL NetherlandsPosts: 2,280Member Common
    Originally posted by FelixMajor
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Think about it. Paying a company $20+ dollars to run an automatic script to change one variable.

    Complete robbery.

    I agree, HOWEVER I disagree as well.

     

    For a game with a monthly sub, it should be free, for a free to play game, I can see it justified.

    That sounds sensible. I agree.

    10
  • Deathstrike2Deathstrike2 Wellston, OHPosts: 1,801Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Think about it. Paying a company $20+ dollars to run an automatic script to change one variable.

    Complete robbery.

    Illegal?  Seriously?  We need the government to write more laws to protect us from doing stupid things, like paying for a race change?

    No thanks.  Fewer regulations = more freedom and liberty.  I don't need a politician telling me how to spend my money. 

  • odinsrathodinsrath louisville, KYPosts: 814Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Weretigar

    The black panthers have been saying this for years.

    +1 and if there was a "like" button id hit it! xD

    image

  • miscrpgdudemiscrpgdude Port Coquitlam, BCPosts: 28Member Uncommon

    [mod edit]

    Let me explain something to you people, this is NOT capitalism. It is gouging and realistically by the principles of laws already in place IS illegal.

    You see when you provide a service that by natural form has no competition - for example an exclusive service to a product you have sold it is illegal to sell that service for a price grossly out of proportion to its cost. It’s an unconscionable form of price gouging.

    [mod edit]

  • jaybird50jaybird50 colorado springs, COPosts: 22Member
    Originally posted by miscrpgdude

    [mod edit]

    Let me explain something to you people, this is NOT capitalism. It is gouging and realistically by the principles of laws already in place IS illegal.

    You see when you provide a service that by natural form has no competition - for example an exclusive service to a product you have sold it is illegal to sell that service for a price grossly out of proportion to its cost. It’s an unconscionable form of price gouging.

    [mod edit]

    You have missed a couple of major point's in your own definition, which I am afraid points the retard finger right back at yourself. "for example an exclusive service to a product you have sold it is illegal to sell that service for a price grossly out of proportion to its cost".

    This only applies if it causes the original product to be rendered useless without the purchase of the additional. For example...Printers... They used to cost hundreds of dollars and the cost of ribbons was nominal, in proportion to the original cost of the printer. The business model for printers has drastically changed and now printer ink is 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of the printer itself.  This practice has become a gouging of sorts because without the ink the printer is useless... So as a consumer when I go to buy a printer, if I do not calculate the TOTAL cost of ownership then I am screwed.

    Within the context of the original poster's gripe "a race change" your game is not useless, infact it makes no difference at all. 

    And the next point is that their is indeed plenty of competition and by no means does ArenaNet have the monopoly on MMO"S.  Also if you think fair market means that a company is supposed to create methods of competition internally then I am afraid you're confused.

    Lets take a little trip on your logic train and see how many other things are illegal... How about Fast Food! Pocorn at movie theatres, Prom dress rentals, extended warranty plans, oh wait EVERYTHING.

     example: "I will have a hamburger please." Would you like cheese with that its .25 more ?" By your logic, this would be illegal because there is no competition (options) within that burger joint for me to get cheese on my burger other than paying them." In a fair market their are plenty of natural options that can be excersised :

    Go to a different burger joint...

    Start your own...

    Make one at home...

    Eat a salad...

    Make a law about it, which is bar far the worst possible choice, but in a entitled society is the first place we leap to.

    The economists that you mention would not weep, they would just continue to adapt and theorize because the world economy and how Capitalism functions within it has changed so much. Thats like saying that the US Constitution should not have any ammendments because the original theorists had it all figured out. Adam Smith however would have frowned on you language choice...

     

     

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Think about it. Paying a company $20+ dollars to run an automatic script to change one variable.

    Complete robbery.

    Yes, because you are forced to do it... Better get ahold of Liam Neeson to come start wrecking people...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,763Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ItsGopher
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Think about it. Paying a company $20+ dollars to run an automatic script to change one variable.

    Complete robbery.

     

    Then choose the race you want the first time around.. Problem solved.

          Depends on the game...some games only offer a couple races for free and you pay for the rest.

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Kitchener, ONPosts: 1,979Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Think about it. Paying a company $20+ dollars to run an automatic script to change one variable.

    Complete robbery.

    That is like arguing that cable should be free since they are already sending a signal out.  It is the development of the option. . they could have just not made it an option.  People wanted it. . they put time and effort into it and charge what people are willing to pay.  That is how the market works.  Yes. . lets make the free market illegal. . lets make sure no one develops anything that might later be considered "too easy to charge for".  I mean. . MMOs should only be charging for my bandwitdth and some electricity right. . I mean. . they just have to throw a switch to activate my account.

     

    Sarcasm aside having you change your race could cost them more than $20 dollars. . lets say I play for a month and want to change my race. . I might reroll and play that month over. . paying $15 or I might pay for a race change for $20.  If you decide on a race change rather than a reroll you will be one month ahead on that character leading you to potentially cancel your sub one month earlier etc.  It is just not that simple.  I suppose charging $25 for a horse that is already created is okay?    If people can't charge for these things then they won't make them.  If you don't want to do it. . don't pay.  No one is making you.  It is an option that is offered.  You can reroll for "free".

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Kitchener, ONPosts: 1,979Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by miscrpgdude

     

    You see when you provide a service that by natural form has no competition - for example an exclusive service to a product you have sold it is illegal to sell that service for a price grossly out of proportion to its cost. It’s an unconscionable form of price gouging.

    Except that there is a competing service. . reroll.  Or there are other games to play which are the "competition" you mention and are more in the spirit of the legal argument you are making.  

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Kitchener, ONPosts: 1,979Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FelixMajor
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Think about it. Paying a company $20+ dollars to run an automatic script to change one variable.

    Complete robbery.

    I agree, HOWEVER I disagree as well.

     

    For a game with a monthly sub, it should be free, for a free to play game, I can see it justified.

    See though they are potentially losing your sub time if they let you race change for free rather than reroll.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • SorrowSorrow St Pete, FLPosts: 1,195Member
    Originally posted by Weretigar

    The black panthers have been saying this for years.

    Cost MJ a lot more than $20 to change race..

    image

  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    sub games make money off of people playing the game for extended periods of time. leveling alts is a big part of that. race changes circumvent the need to level alts to a certain degree. Thus it costs about as much as they figure it would take average people to level them. rocket science.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • miscrpgdudemiscrpgdude Port Coquitlam, BCPosts: 28Member Uncommon

    I know I shouldn't even bother but I guess I'm a stubborn old fool...

    Originally posted by jaybird50

    You have missed a couple of major point's in your own definition, which I am afraid points the retard finger right back at yourself. "for example an exclusive service to a product you have sold it is illegal to sell that service for a price grossly out of proportion to its cost".

    This only applies if it causes the original product to be rendered useless without the purchase of the additional. For example...Printers... They used to cost hundreds of dollars and the cost of ribbons was nominal, in proportion to the original cost of the printer. The business model for printers has drastically changed and now printer ink is 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of the printer itself.  This practice has become a gouging of sorts because without the ink the printer is useless... So as a consumer when I go to buy a printer, if I do not calculate the TOTAL cost of ownership then I am screwed.

    You are simply flat out wrong.  Any service which can by definition or practical requisite only be provided by the manufacturer outside the principle of market competition need provide service at a cost, at most, consistent in profitability with the original product.

    It’s a foundational principle of protected IP consumer rights. But if you want to talk about the printer ink industry I can go there seeing as how I advised on a lawsuit against Lexmark by a coalition of third party cartridge manufacturers.

    You see Lexmark was the first company to begin chipping there toner and ink cartridges to ensure that only they could sell the replacements. A BLATENTLY illegal action. In fact it was SO blatant, that they didn't even deny it, they simply said that they wouldn't stop anyone from replicating the chips, and gave out the design knowing that it would simply add significantly to the cost of production for third party manufacturers.

    Originally posted by jaybird50

    Within the context of the original poster's gripe "a race change" your game is not useless, infact it makes no difference at all. Also if you think fair market means that a company is supposed to create methods of competition internally then I am afraid you're confused.

    Are you seriously making a utility argument for an entertainment product concerning a purely entertainment service? Honestly that’s just asinine and weird. It is completely illegal for a company to artificially create barriers to secondary service industries. Again, you have NO clue what you’re talking about. There have been (and there are several ongoing) lawsuits concerning this very issue - particularly in the auto industry right now. This is once again a BLATANT form of market manipulation that has long been considered a founding principle of post IP consumer rights.

    Originally posted by jaybird50
    And the next point is that their is indeed plenty of competition and by no means does ArenaNet have the monopoly on MMO"S.  Also if you think fair market means that a company is supposed to create methods of competition internally then I am afraid you're confused.

    No, there is not competition. Competition for the original product is utterly irrelevant; there is no competition for the race change service.

    Originally posted by jaybird50
    Lets take a little trip on your logic train and see how many other things are illegal... How about Fast Food! Pocorn at movie theatres, Prom dress rentals, extended warranty plans, oh wait EVERYTHING.

    Wow, this is insane. Have you actually ever taken a basic philosophy or economics course? Your fast food example is a point of purchase service. The entire point is that the service is provided AFTER initial point of sale. In addition there is rather massive difference in the relative lifespan of the service and natural expectation.

    Originally posted by jaybird50

    The economists that you mention would not weep, they would just continue to adapt and theorize because the world economy and how Capitalism functions within it has changed so much. Thats like saying that the US Constitution should not have any ammendments because the original theorists had it all figured out. Adam Smith however would have frowned on you language choice...

    Maybe were not talking about the same Adam Smith, I am talking about the one who actually existed, who didn't believe that natural property rights existed and that the market as a force existed purely to best satisfy the needs of the consumer.

    The economy is not a game, it’s not meant to be some ridiculous series of manipulations by producers and consumers each trying to manipulate each other by whatever means necessary. It’s supposed to be a structure maintained to facilitate the exchange of goods and services efficiently and fairly.

     

     

     

     

     

  • miscrpgdudemiscrpgdude Port Coquitlam, BCPosts: 28Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azmundai

    sub games make money off of people playing the game for extended periods of time. leveling alts is a big part of that. race changes circumvent the need to level alts to a certain degree. Thus it costs about as much as they figure it would take average people to level them. rocket science.

    This is called an opportunity cost and could certainly reasonably be used to justify charging a very significant amount more than the actual cost of actions performed plus consistent profit. Like  I said in my original post, I am hardly all up in arms in this particular case but yes it is clearly gouging and pretty clearly an unreasonable level of profitability on the service.

    /Shrug there are of course far far far worse examples in the world today, the government just seems to have completely abdicated any responsibility for protecting consumers.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aethaeryn
    Originally posted by FelixMajor
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Think about it. Paying a company $20+ dollars to run an automatic script to change one variable.

    Complete robbery.

    I agree, HOWEVER I disagree as well.

     

    For a game with a monthly sub, it should be free, for a free to play game, I can see it justified.

    See though they are potentially losing your sub time if they let you race change for free rather than reroll.

    Or retaining your sub time depending on the game design and the user playstyle.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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