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GW2 still falls in the Tank/Heal/DD Mold

gamekid2kgamekid2k Austin, TXPosts: 360Member

I was excited that GW2 doesn't have traditional roles.  

Today I tried out Guardian and was amazed the amount of tanking and healing ability it has.  I have a feeling that even in GW2 we will start seeing specialization and dungeon group will still setup with 1 tank 1 heal and 3 DD mold. I bet Tank and Healer shortage will hit this game.

 

 

Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

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Comments

  • AvanahAvanah Posts: 945Member Uncommon

    Research GW2 more please.....

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  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
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  • yaoming36yaoming36 None of your damn business, INPosts: 189Member Uncommon

    Did you try out any other class? Even I could support with my warrior who has the most weapon varity and is practically all about damage (Adreline skill). Really some classes are better than others in terms of aoe healing. Some are better at taking damage, BUT really even the tank will die if he doesn't learn to roll out of the red circles.

  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k

    I was excited that GW2 doesn't have traditional roles.  

    Today I tried out Guardian and was amazed the amount of tanking and healing ability it has.  I have a feeling that even in GW2 we will start seeing specialization and dungeon group will still setup with 1 tank 1 heal and 3 DD mold. I bet Tank and Healer shortage will hit this game.

     

     

    Well, if I ever meet you in a dungeon, I'll just let you stand there and try to tank and watch you die. And then I shall be a glorious bastard and secretly laugh to myself if you try the same thing again. and laugh even more when you rage about the "cruddy tanking". and laugh even more when you try to accuse me of not healing you hard enough, assuming I even roll a more support oriented class.

    All sadistic humor aside, I'll probably whisper you multiple times not to try to tank in the traditional manner, because as funny as it would be to see others do something stupid, I'm not that much of a dick.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    They're not tanking abilities at all, they're support abilities.  A.) You cannot soak up a great deal more damage than say, a warrior and B.) no aggro means you're useless for taking that damage if the enemy isn't noticing you.

    I agree, they're good for keeping people alive, but that doesn't equal traditional heals or tanking.  No aggro + cooldowns = you're just another member of the team more often than not.

  • Enok4TwunniEnok4Twunni Joshua, TXPosts: 207Member
    ^^ those ^^
  • mav1234mav1234 Bennington, VTPosts: 81Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gamekid2k

    I was excited that GW2 doesn't have traditional roles.  

    Today I tried out Guardian and was amazed the amount of tanking and healing ability it has.  I have a feeling that even in GW2 we will start seeing specialization and dungeon group will still setup with 1 tank 1 heal and 3 DD mold. I bet Tank and Healer shortage will hit this game.

     

     

    There are classes with more durability and many many classes can employ specs that can heal others, but you are not using your character to its full effectiveness if you are only using heals on it.  Just about all healing in this game has decent cooldowns and requires a great deal being given up to utilize it.  Yes, support specs are quite powerful in the right hands because of healing and other abilities, but there is nothing at all in this game like a resto druid or a sentinel/warden/purifier or anything like that imo.

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member

    How would there be a shortage when every profession can fill those roles?

     

    They don't fill them on a constant basis, which is what I think you're talking about.  The roles change as the fight rages on.  Example, my Thief can DPS to start, jump in and "tank" for a bit, jump back out and help stealth people so they can heal, sneak back into "ninja" melee and jump back out to finish with some DPS again.  And then run around rezzing people who need it.  All on one boss.

     

    So, how would there be a shortage of any role?

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  • gamekid2kgamekid2k Austin, TXPosts: 360Member

    Ok, so without taunt or agro, there will be less tanking role,

    However people can (and will) choose to just stick with DD, and not heal.  I remember Eye of Eternity/Malygos fight where many times the traditional heal wanted a take break and do DD but nobody else wanted to do the healing job.  

    In MMO I have been playing tank/heal/DD and I guess GW2 is gonna throw some of traditional DD out of comfort zone. 

    Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

  • JagaridJagarid West Covina, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k

    I was excited that GW2 doesn't have traditional roles.  

    Today I tried out Guardian and was amazed the amount of tanking and healing ability it has.  I have a feeling that even in GW2 we will start seeing specialization and dungeon group will still setup with 1 tank 1 heal and 3 DD mold. I bet Tank and Healer shortage will hit this game. 

     

    In a game where no one can "tank" in the traditional sense of the word, and everyone can "heal" at least to some extent....how exactly do you imagine there will be any of the first or shortages of the second?

  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member
    There is no direct heals in the game. You support other players through buffs and minor heals, and you control the mob through interrupts, knockdowns, stubs, etc. Everyone's responsible for themselves but also contributig to the team.
  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 876Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gamekid2k

    I was excited that GW2 doesn't have traditional roles.  

    Today I tried out Guardian and was amazed the amount of tanking and healing ability it has.  I have a feeling that even in GW2 we will start seeing specialization and dungeon group will still setup with 1 tank 1 heal and 3 DD mold. I bet Tank and Healer shortage will hit this game.

     

     

    So wrong.....

     

    1) It's IMPOSSIBLE to tank as it's impossible to gain aggro of any one single mob.  There's no "taunt" ability in this game that causes a mob to squarly focus on a single player.

     

    2) There's not enough healing abilities for someone to sit there and "just heal".  Most healing abilities require a player to balance Conditions and Boons more so instead of direct heals.  Also, with everyone having their own Self-Heal #6 ability, there's not need for a main healer, instead just a few support heals thrown out from time to time.

     

    You cannot still doe that setup from previous MMO's, because it will fail.  Period.  There's no questions about that.


  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    And beside there beign no aggro mechanics for tanks there is no quality healing build. The only good healing abilities are the self heal ones. The others are VERY position oriented and do not provide spike heals only healing over time. A "healer" in GW2 might keep you alive for just a very little amount of time, nothing like a healer in other mmos.

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  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    Even the most healer heavy builds can not provide any where near the healing ability needed to match the minimums for a "dedicated healer" in most MMOs. The same thing goes for Tanks and their ability to manage aggro and absorb large amounts of damage.

    Healing is a form of support, but in the genre it has evoved to become the only form of support that really matters.

    Tanking is a form of control. However, in the genre it has evolved to be the only non-niche form of control that really matters.

    GW2 is a balance of Damage/Controll/Support. Tanking and Healing have a balanced role in Control and Support. Balanced in that they are beneficial, but you can not build groups around a tank and a healer. Also balanced in that a group of adaptable players with flexible builds are most often more effective than a group of highly specialized players with builds that only excel at a narrow, pre-defined role.

    GW2 does not fall into the Tank/Heal/DD mold. It returns the genre to Damage/Support/Control, while doing so in an innovative, modern and very flexible way.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
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  • grimm6thgrimm6th Overland Park, KSPosts: 973Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k

    Ok, so without taunt or agro, there will be less tanking role,

    However people can (and will) choose to just stick with DD, and not heal.  I remember Eye of Eternity/Malygos fight where many times the traditional heal wanted a take break and do DD but nobody else wanted to do the healing job.  

    In MMO I have been playing tank/heal/DD and I guess GW2 is gonna throw some of traditional DD out of comfort zone. 

    By the time you get to a dungeon, you will have figured out  how you like to play, and then you will play that way.

    Everyone is going to be dealing damage, but, at the same time, they will be using support skills, or will be controlling the enemy's movements, or debuffing them with conditions, or positioning yourself as a physical barrier for your squishier or more damaged allies, or reviving fallen allies.  Group combat dynamics aren't much like what they are in other games, and this is really because you can have dedicated tank, heal, and damage players in other games, so content is designed around this being required, where as, in GW2, you can't take huge hits (you will get 1 shotted), heals are fairly minor and you can't target allies directly, and damage dealers (aka everyone) have to keep themselves alive and do anything they can to help others stay alive through non-trinity standard means (no taunts, no targetted heals).

     

    On a side note, thunderhead keep monk strike.  I wonder if WoW ever had something like that.  I mean, if healers really wanted to be damage dealers...they could have done something about it.

    I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gamekid2k

    I was excited that GW2 doesn't have traditional roles.  

    Today I tried out Guardian and was amazed the amount of tanking and healing ability it has.  I have a feeling that even in GW2 we will start seeing specialization and dungeon group will still setup with 1 tank 1 heal and 3 DD mold. I bet Tank and Healer shortage will hit this game.

     The need for a trinity based group would have to start with the developed content.  Since ANet's policy is no trinity I think it's safe to say that's not going to happen.  Will this stop people from spamming chat with "LF Heal Spec Ele"? Nope but I'll feel bad for the reaction they will receive.

    There are specs for certain professions that give healing, protection and other various boons to allies.  That's the freedom of the trait system in what you want to provide in your gameplay.  This doesn't mean the trinity is secretly there.

  • CromicaCromica West Fargo, NDPosts: 657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gamekid2k

    I was excited that GW2 doesn't have traditional roles.  

    Today I tried out Guardian and was amazed the amount of tanking and healing ability it has.  I have a feeling that even in GW2 we will start seeing specialization and dungeon group will still setup with 1 tank 1 heal and 3 DD mold. I bet Tank and Healer shortage will hit this game.

     

     

    CAn I get your in game name so I am never in one of your groups?

  • lightbladelightblade Fremont, CAPosts: 219Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k

    I was excited that GW2 doesn't have traditional roles.  

    Today I tried out Guardian and was amazed the amount of tanking and healing ability it has.  I have a feeling that even in GW2 we will start seeing specialization and dungeon group will still setup with 1 tank 1 heal and 3 DD mold. I bet Tank and Healer shortage will hit this game.

     

     

    Please explain.

  • UkiahUkiah Austin, TXPosts: 273Member
    Originally posted by lightblade
    Originally posted by gamekid2k

    I was excited that GW2 doesn't have traditional roles.  

    Today I tried out Guardian and was amazed the amount of tanking and healing ability it has.  I have a feeling that even in GW2 we will start seeing specialization and dungeon group will still setup with 1 tank 1 heal and 3 DD mold. I bet Tank and Healer shortage will hit this game.

     

     

    Please explain.

    I can only assume by 'tanking and healing ability' he means 'survivability'. 

     

    The only thing more amazing to me than how many people understand and are looking forward to GW2 is the number of people who DON'T.

  • MagnetiaMagnetia SydneyPosts: 1,029Member Uncommon

    Anet have stated numerous times that there are still roles to play. 

    The important thing to remember is that these roles are NOT ESSENTIAL to grouping. It has a soft trinity. 

    Some classes take damage better than others. Nobody ever said "there are no roles" we only said "the HOLY trinity is not applicable here"

    Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    Players who run pure DD in explorable mode are in for a surprise.

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  • KethrymKethrym Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 85Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k

    I was excited that GW2 doesn't have traditional roles.  

    Today I tried out Guardian and was amazed the amount of tanking and healing ability it has.  I have a feeling that even in GW2 we will start seeing specialization and dungeon group will still setup with 1 tank 1 heal and 3 DD mold. I bet Tank and Healer shortage will hit this game.

     

     

    I could say the same for my Necro, or for an Elementalist, or for a Warrior, or for a Mesmer or.....well you get the point.   Here's what you're missing though.    All Tanking, Healing, and DPS (to use the terms we all know) is limited by the situation and your characters cooldowns.  

    Since there is no class that has ANY aggro gaining ability, "Tanking" per say does not exist.    Same thing for Healing.  No direct ZOMG direct heals that would make anyone a "Healer".   So that leaves DPS.   Well ok you win, there is DPS.   :-P

    Can you make your character "into" a Tank or Healer?  Kinda......  Sure I could make my Necro into a Life Siphoning healer while in Death Shroud, would I call him a main healer?  Oh geez no.   An Elementalist gets nice AoE and splash heals, but it's no more powerful than my Necro or a Guardian.  

    Sure you can make a Sword and Board Warrior and (when properly played) you can survive a pretty decent amount of time.   However you're not a Tank.    If you run around thinking people will be healing you so you can "tank" you've got another thing coming.   

     You better learn to dodge, run, kite, CC, switch weapons, and heal yourself to survive.   Pick up some support skills to make it easier for those around you.    You better also learn what combos you can pull off with your weapon sets.  

    Being able to recognize the needs of those around you compared to whatever it is your facing, is what make this game so much fun.   

    I can't wait for someone to run up during release screaming "I'll tank the boss" and then watch them Nerd Rage when they either die, or spam every cooldown they have to get some aggro, and then still die. 

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cahenderson

     

    The only thing more amazing to me than how many people understand and are looking forward to GW2 is the number of people who DON'T.

     

    That is what happens when you don't drink the koolaid, and many past failures make players leery of jumping on the hype train.  IMHO, GW2 combat is very similar to PSO combat, but I just don't enjoy their version of it.  I think it probably because the action combat is more suited for a diablo style dungeon crawler than an MMO.

  • KethrymKethrym Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 85Member
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by cahenderson

     

    The only thing more amazing to me than how many people understand and are looking forward to GW2 is the number of people who DON'T.

     

    That is what happens when you don't drink the koolaid, and many past failures make players leery of jumping on the hype train.  IMHO, GW2 combat is very similar to PSO combat, but I just don't enjoy their version of it.  I think it probably because the action combat is more suited for a diablo style dungeon crawler than an MMO.

    LOL, you make it sound like it's just a button mashing fest.   Sure the starter area DE's don't require much thought,  but then again you're just learning your abilites and weapon sets.   Try just randomly button mashing in DE's at level 15 and see how long you last.  

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