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GW 2 : Not really free (B2P)

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  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,108Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Anyone else amazed at how many lazy people there are that post about GW2 ?

     

    There is a new thread almost every hour now created by someone who cannot be bothered to even look at the gw2.com faq.

    Let alone take a few minutes to read about the game they think they know.

     

    Ignorance is bliss right ?


     

    The person doesn't have English as his or fist language, Yet Comes to a community they feel comfortable with to ask a question or voice an opinion only to be mocked by said community that should be helping people.

    Or are the rumours about bad gw2 communities that true?

    Actually he didn't come to the GW2 community ...he was put in here .I would assume the op would be more comfortable in TSW forums though because there fact doesn't get in the way of having an opinion

  • Masa1Masa1 LapuaPosts: 318Member Common
    Expansions, DLCs, cash shop (you probably want bag/warehouse extensions...). The company knows how to milk it's customers.
  • Thornz2000Thornz2000 faraway, AKPosts: 135Member

    The other MMO expansions are about the same price and you have to still pay a monthly fee.

    If you can not afford $10 a month you need to get a better job.

    The world we know is going away http://www.graystatemovie.com/
    Look up Agenda 21 as well.

  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by Masa1
    Expansions, DLCs, cash shop (you probably want bag/warehouse extensions...). The company knows how to milk it's customers.

    So you're telling me that you shouldn't have to pay for additional content that developers put time and money into?

    Also,

    20 inital starting bag

    + 4 slots each with 20 slots == 100 slots at level 80.

    + 30 bank account slot shared across accunt == 130 slots at level 80

    + material slots in bank with each (I'm assuming) having a cap of 250 == more than I can calculate right now.

    There's plenty of storage available.

  • Thornz2000Thornz2000 faraway, AKPosts: 135Member
    Originally posted by bookworm438
    Originally posted by Masa1
    Expansions, DLCs, cash shop (you probably want bag/warehouse extensions...). The company knows how to milk it's customers.

    So you're telling me that you shouldn't have to pay for additional content that developers put time and money into?

    Also,

    20 inital starting bag

    + 4 slots each with 20 slots == 100 slots at level 80.

    + 30 bank account slot shared across accunt == 130 slots at level 80

    + material slots in bank with each (I'm assuming) having a cap of 250 == more than I can calculate right now.

    There's plenty of storage available.

    If the game is good, I'd be happy to pay $15-$20mo.

    Its worth it.

    The world we know is going away http://www.graystatemovie.com/
    Look up Agenda 21 as well.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    Ok.  All of you fan boys defending GW2 forget one crucial fact.  Guild wars is going to sell alot of copy just because it's B2P.  The theory is GW2 is cheaper so it'll make up by selling more copies. 

    And for all those people making fun of my when I say you "need" to pay extra for buying extra character slot, bank slot, bag slot etc.  Well you don't.  But I do.  I'll most likely want to play every class so I have to pay 30$ extra.  I pretty much max leveled all class for most mmorpg I played, wow, aoc, diablo 3 etc.  Just because you only intend to level 2 character don't mean I have to too.

    And just so you know no one sells box or expansion in asia.  All wow expansion is free in asia.  Expansion for every single mmorpg in asia is free.  The game itself is free too.  You don't need to buy box for wow or aion etc just the sub free.  Before you tell me no one cares about what happen in asia, I just want to point it out that company do whatever they want to do to make more money even if they have already make enough money.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko

     

    And for all those people making fun of my when I say you "need" to pay extra for buying extra character slot, bank slot, bag slot etc.  Well you don't.  But I do.  I'll most likely want to play every class so I have to pay 30$ extra.  I pretty much max leveled all class for most mmorpg I played, wow, aoc, diablo 3 etc.  Just because you only intend to level 2 character don't mean I have to too.

    Yeah that's one thing I definitely dislike, there should be as many slots as there are professions. Especially considering they're doing things a little bit outside the box in terms of those professions.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,849Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko

    Ok.  All of you fan boys defending GW2 forget one crucial fact.  Guild wars is going to sell alot of copy just because it's B2P.  The theory is GW2 is cheaper so it'll make up by selling more copies. 

    And for all those people making fun of my when I say you "need" to pay extra for buying extra character slot, bank slot, bag slot etc.  Well you don't.  But I do.  I'll most likely want to play every class so I have to pay 30$ extra.  I pretty much max leveled all class for most mmorpg I played, wow, aoc, diablo 3 etc.  Just because you only intend to level 2 character don't mean I have to too.

     

    Fair point but are you not playing the game for x amount of time longer in order to play those extra characters? The price to play one character to whatever point you do should be made up in comparison to a sub game that does not charge for those extra character slots.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,849Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko

    And just so you know no one sells box or expansion in asia.  All wow expansion is free in asia.  Expansion for every single mmorpg in asia is free.  The game itself is free too.  You don't need to buy box for wow or aion etc just the sub free.  Before you tell me no one cares about what happen in asia, I just want to point it out that company do whatever they want to do to make more money even if they have already make enough money.

     

    They have a completely different model and does not relate to this topic.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Originally posted by laokoko

    Ok.  All of you fan boys defending GW2 forget one crucial fact.  Guild wars is going to sell alot of copy just because it's B2P.  The theory is GW2 is cheaper so it'll make up by selling more copies. 

    And for all those people making fun of my when I say you "need" to pay extra for buying extra character slot, bank slot, bag slot etc.  Well you don't.  But I do.  I'll most likely want to play every class so I have to pay 30$ extra.  I pretty much max leveled all class for most mmorpg I played, wow, aoc, diablo 3 etc.  Just because you only intend to level 2 character don't mean I have to too.

     

    Fair point but are you not playing the game for x amount of time longer in order to play those extra characters? The price to play one character to whatever point you do should be made up in comparison to a sub game that does not charge for those extra character slots.

    This is something many companies do (limit character slots). SWG as an example only offered one per server, which pushed sales for extra accounts. I've always hated that. In essence you're saving even more in this situation.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Originally posted by laokoko

    Ok.  All of you fan boys defending GW2 forget one crucial fact.  Guild wars is going to sell alot of copy just because it's B2P.  The theory is GW2 is cheaper so it'll make up by selling more copies. 

    And for all those people making fun of my when I say you "need" to pay extra for buying extra character slot, bank slot, bag slot etc.  Well you don't.  But I do.  I'll most likely want to play every class so I have to pay 30$ extra.  I pretty much max leveled all class for most mmorpg I played, wow, aoc, diablo 3 etc.  Just because you only intend to level 2 character don't mean I have to too.

     

    Fair point but are you not playing the game for x amount of time longer in order to play those extra characters? The price to play one character to whatever point you do should be made up in comparison to a sub game that does not charge for those extra character slots.

    Yes, I think GW2 is definately a bargain.  People that bought it most likely spent way less compare to other sub game.

    But I'm just pointing out the reason GW2 will survive is because it's B2P.  If my guess is correct, it'll sell millions and millions more copy than other games out on the market now.  So it should already make enough money to offset it being b2p.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Originally posted by laokoko

    And just so you know no one sells box or expansion in asia.  All wow expansion is free in asia.  Expansion for every single mmorpg in asia is free.  The game itself is free too.  You don't need to buy box for wow or aion etc just the sub free.  Before you tell me no one cares about what happen in asia, I just want to point it out that company do whatever they want to do to make more money even if they have already make enough money.

     

    They have a completely different model and does not relate to this topic.

    it's mainly a response to the person who said almost all p2p and b2p sell expansion.  Someone brought it up in this long discussion.

    Dont' get me wrong.  I love the b2p model.  I'm just disappointed companies still trying to milk us through like RMAH, cashshop etc.  Let's say GW2 sells like 10million copies like diablo3 (thoug I doubt it'll sell that much).  That's 600 million already, are all of you still goign to defend their cashshop etc?

    And I'll stop bitching about GW2.  I love it, so don't make it sound i hate it.  I'm just QQing or bashing people like all the mature people do on game forum.

  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Originally posted by laokoko

    Ok.  All of you fan boys defending GW2 forget one crucial fact.  Guild wars is going to sell alot of copy just because it's B2P.  The theory is GW2 is cheaper so it'll make up by selling more copies. 

    And for all those people making fun of my when I say you "need" to pay extra for buying extra character slot, bank slot, bag slot etc.  Well you don't.  But I do.  I'll most likely want to play every class so I have to pay 30$ extra.  I pretty much max leveled all class for most mmorpg I played, wow, aoc, diablo 3 etc.  Just because you only intend to level 2 character don't mean I have to too.

     

    Fair point but are you not playing the game for x amount of time longer in order to play those extra characters? The price to play one character to whatever point you do should be made up in comparison to a sub game that does not charge for those extra character slots.

    Yes, I think GW2 is definately a bargain.  People that bought it most likely spent way less compare to other sub game.

    But I'm just pointing out the reason GW2 will survive is because it's B2P.  If my guess is correct, it'll sell millions and millions more copy than other games out on the market now.  So it should already make enough money to offset it being b2p.

    You have no evidence other than your personal opinion to support that claim. For P2P games, really you only need about 500k subs in order for it to be considered a success monetarily. WoW's sort of a freak of nature, and very few games will ever be able to garner the subs WoW did. 

    And when you look at the cost break down, 3 character slots at ~$10 each will cost around $30. Unless you intend to purchase those slots all at once, that cost over the number of months it'll take you to get to the point where you need more character slots isn't that bad.

    And if you purchase gems with gold in-game while you are playing your first 5 characters, I would imagine you would have enough to purchase at least 1 character slot with in-game gold.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,849Member Uncommon
    Iaokoko

    I see where you're coming from and it's a lot like WoW. We know see them getting millions of 15.00 subs each month and wonder why we don't see more changes to the game. I am Ing those people.

    What I found is that the better question is what am I personally getting for what I pay? If I go by what a company is making in total as to what I should be getting I am criticizing them for being successful.

    That's just me though.
  • bookworm438bookworm438 Detroit, MIPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Originally posted by laokoko

    And just so you know no one sells box or expansion in asia.  All wow expansion is free in asia.  Expansion for every single mmorpg in asia is free.  The game itself is free too.  You don't need to buy box for wow or aion etc just the sub free.  Before you tell me no one cares about what happen in asia, I just want to point it out that company do whatever they want to do to make more money even if they have already make enough money.

     

    They have a completely different model and does not relate to this topic.

    it's mainly a response to the person who said almost all p2p and b2p sell expansion.  Someone brought it up in this long discussion.

    Dont' get me wrong.  I love the b2p model.  I'm just disappointed companies still trying to milk us through like RMAH, cashshop etc.  Let's say GW2 sells like 10million copies like diablo3 (thoug I doubt it'll sell that much).  That's 600 million already, are all of you still goign to defend their cashshop etc?

    And I'll stop bitching about GW2.  I love it, so don't make it sound i hate it.  I'm just QQing or bashing people like all the mature people do on game forum.

    Actually it's not. Take out taxes, retail costs, distribution costs, etc., and they don't make that much off of each sale. It's nowhere near 600 million.

    And yes I am going to defend their cash shop. ArenaNet is a business, not a charity. They are in the business to make money. If they aren't turning a good enough profit, then they need to start or else NCSoft will shut their doors. The difference between F2P and GW2 is that ArenaNet isn't putting anything the cash shop where you NEED to purchase anything to actually play the game and be competitive. You can play the game without ever setting foot in the cash shop. And they provided an avenue for you to purchase gems without actually paying cash. I'd say that's pretty generous of them, considering they may lose money on that.

  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Originally posted by laokoko

    And just so you know no one sells box or expansion in asia.  All wow expansion is free in asia.  Expansion for every single mmorpg in asia is free.  The game itself is free too.  You don't need to buy box for wow or aion etc just the sub free.  Before you tell me no one cares about what happen in asia, I just want to point it out that company do whatever they want to do to make more money even if they have already make enough money.

     

    They have a completely different model and does not relate to this topic.

    it's mainly a response to the person who said almost all p2p and b2p sell expansion.  Someone brought it up in this long discussion.

    Dont' get me wrong.  I love the b2p model.  I'm just disappointed companies still trying to milk us through like RMAH, cashshop etc.  Let's say GW2 sells like 10million copies like diablo3 (thoug I doubt it'll sell that much).  That's 600 million already, are all of you still goign to defend their cashshop etc?

    And I'll stop bitching about GW2.  I love it, so don't make it sound i hate it.  I'm just QQing or bashing people like all the mature people do on game forum.

    You have no clue how business works.

    First, both ArenaNet and NCSoft have made substantial investments into the development of GW2.  We're talking paying hundreds of employee salaries, buying a new office building, infrastructure upkeep, licensing etc...  It's not free.

    Second, they don't get 100% of the box price in revenue.  After deducting things like development cost, material, shipping etc... it's really not as high as most people think.  That also applies to the online editions.  Every transaction made with a credit card, boom, heavy chunk taken off by the credit card companies.

    Third, where do you think they're going to get the money to continue to develop the game and future titles?  Oh that's right, their shareholders because they're a freaking CORPORATE company.  Who does ArenaNet and NCSoft get their money from?  Oh that's right, the shareholders.  What keeps shareholders happy?  Making money.

    If you guys really want to see how tough it is to make a good titles and distribute and make a profit on, look at indy games.  Those guys work like dogs on their lifes work and you can bet once they go onto the market, they want to be rewarded.  I don't blame them.

    GW2 is a B2P.  A B2P with premium benefits to be more precise.  We've known this for quite awhile yet people are still bitching like it'll ruin the game.  God damn, I'm paying an extra $3 at the car wash for the wax package, I'm going to have a much shinier car.  Does it run better?  Nope.  Does it handle better?  Nope.  Do I get better fuel economy?  Nope.

    Because like all the items in the cash shop we've seen so far, it's a freaking perk that people will be willing to pay for.  

  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Elftown, MEPosts: 489Member
    This is like getting everyone to explain the color red. lol

    a yo ho ho

  • TheonenoniTheonenoni Lexington, VAPosts: 279Member

    Why does this thread exist?

    The B2P business model is the first business model ever since pong. Of course expansions are going to cost you cash. 

    At least it costs a lot less than WoW with all the expansions you have to buy and on top of that pay a monthly fee. 

     

    So why tell us something we already should know?

    -I am here to perform logic

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by rykim86
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Originally posted by laokoko

    And just so you know no one sells box or expansion in asia.  All wow expansion is free in asia.  Expansion for every single mmorpg in asia is free.  The game itself is free too.  You don't need to buy box for wow or aion etc just the sub free.  Before you tell me no one cares about what happen in asia, I just want to point it out that company do whatever they want to do to make more money even if they have already make enough money.

     

    They have a completely different model and does not relate to this topic.

    it's mainly a response to the person who said almost all p2p and b2p sell expansion.  Someone brought it up in this long discussion.

    Dont' get me wrong.  I love the b2p model.  I'm just disappointed companies still trying to milk us through like RMAH, cashshop etc.  Let's say GW2 sells like 10million copies like diablo3 (thoug I doubt it'll sell that much).  That's 600 million already, are all of you still goign to defend their cashshop etc?

    And I'll stop bitching about GW2.  I love it, so don't make it sound i hate it.  I'm just QQing or bashing people like all the mature people do on game forum.

    You have no clue how business works.

    First, both ArenaNet and NCSoft have made substantial investments into the development of GW2.  We're talking paying hundreds of employee salaries, buying a new office building, infrastructure upkeep, licensing etc...  It's not free.

    Second, they don't get 100% of the box price in revenue.  After deducting things like development cost, material, shipping etc... it's really not as high as most people think.  That also applies to the online editions.  Every transaction made with a credit card, boom, heavy chunk taken off by the credit card companies.

    Third, where do you think they're going to get the money to continue to develop the game and future titles?  Oh that's right, their shareholders because they're a freaking CORPORATE company.  Who does ArenaNet and NCSoft get their money from?  Oh that's right, the shareholders.  What keeps shareholders happy?  Making money.

    If you guys really want to see how tough it is to make a good titles and distribute and make a profit on, look at indy games.  Those guys work like dogs on their lifes work and you can bet once they go onto the market, they want to be rewarded.  I don't blame them.

    GW2 is a B2P.  A B2P with premium benefits to be more precise.  We've known this for quite awhile yet people are still bitching like it'll ruin the game.  God damn, I'm paying an extra $3 at the car wash for the wax package, I'm going to have a much shinier car.  Does it run better?  Nope.  Does it handle better?  Nope.  Do I get better fuel economy?  Nope.

    Because like all the items in the cash shop we've seen so far, it's a freaking perk that people will be willing to pay for.  

    Huh? 600 million dollar won't cover that? good day sir.

    Not to mention we probably have to pay for expansion.  That don't cover future investment?

    I dont' know how much GW2 cost to make.  I dont' know how much it need to keep the server up.  Before you talk crap to me, please show me the financial information.  Bye

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,849Member Uncommon
    I doubt GW2 would realistically sell 30 million boxes and even if they did I don't see total sales as any factor in what each of us pay. If what each of us get is worth what we pay for then their total income doesn't matter. They don't owe us more because they become sucessful.
  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    why do you think guild wars is goign to sell 30 million copies.  That's very unrealistic.  My guess is 6 million by the end of 2013.  I only said 10 million copies because that's what diablo 3 sold.

    And I'm not even talking about Guild Wars 2.  I'm talking about b2p in general.  They always try to make an extra here and there.

  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Huh? 600 million dollar won't cover that? good day sir.

    Not to mention we probably have to pay for expansion.  That don't cover future investment?

    I dont' know how much GW2 cost to make.  I dont' know how much it need to keep the server up.  Before you talk crap to me, please show me the financial information.  Bye

    And I'm telling you they don't get the full amount you think they get.  Much less get over HALF A BILLION at launch.  You're out of your flipping mind.

    We have to pay for expansion.  Okay.  And?  You think their workers are working for free?  You don't think they still have to pay salaries, bills, taxes etc...?  

    We don't need specific financial information to know how basic economics and business works.  There are analysts for a reason.  There's a reason forecasts, while not always correct, are within a ball park range.

    And you're right.  You don't know.  Anything really.

  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member
    Originally posted by laokoko

    why do you think guild wars is goign to sell 30 million copies.  That's very unrealistic.  My guess is 6 million by the end of 2013.  I only said 10 million copies because that's what diablo 3 sold.

    And I'm not even talking about Guild Wars 2.  I'm talking about b2p in general.  They always try to make an extra here and there.

    And that's a bad thing how?

    How is a company making money a bad thing?

  • LucioonLucioon Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 814Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Originally posted by laokoko

    And just so you know no one sells box or expansion in asia.  All wow expansion is free in asia.  Expansion for every single mmorpg in asia is free.  The game itself is free too.  You don't need to buy box for wow or aion etc just the sub free.  Before you tell me no one cares about what happen in asia, I just want to point it out that company do whatever they want to do to make more money even if they have already make enough money.

     

    They have a completely different model and does not relate to this topic.

    it's mainly a response to the person who said almost all p2p and b2p sell expansion.  Someone brought it up in this long discussion.

    Dont' get me wrong.  I love the b2p model.  I'm just disappointed companies still trying to milk us through like RMAH, cashshop etc.  Let's say GW2 sells like 10million copies like diablo3 (thoug I doubt it'll sell that much).  That's 600 million already, are all of you still goign to defend their cashshop etc?

    And I'll stop bitching about GW2.  I love it, so don't make it sound i hate it.  I'm just QQing or bashing people like all the mature people do on game forum.

    Wait a Minute, are you serious, People in Asia don't have to pay for Box prices and Expansions for their MMO's?? ???

    How the hell is that happening there, and in America and Europe we still have to pay for MOP for WOW as well as buy the box for all the other MMO out there!!!!!

    But really, all MMO in America and Europe requires you to pay for Expansions, but still how do you get in on that in getting them for free???

    Unfortunately I am in America, so is there any way that I can get MMO's for free here in America, I have always wanted to try Tera as well as TSW and Hundred's of other MMO's, but they all require me to buy a Box price, as well as all the expansions that they already have even if some is only  $6.99 and some is $50.00 and others in between and they also require me to subscribe.

    I am serious, I never knew that Asian's gets all their new MMO's without Box Prices or have to pay for Expansions and they get to play them for free, if it was at Internet Cafe's I understand, but still it requires internet time, but I am talking about playing it at home like most do in America.

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member
    Originally posted by Lucioon

    Wait a Minute, are you serious, People in Asia don't have to pay for Box prices and Expansions for their MMO's?? ???

    How the hell is that happening there, and in America and Europe we still have to pay for MOP for WOW as well as buy the box for all the other MMO out there!!!!!

    But really, all MMO in America and Europe requires you to pay for Expansions, but still how do you get in on that in getting them for free???

    Unfortunately I am in America, so is there any way that I can get MMO's for free here in America, I have always wanted to try Tera as well as TSW and Hundred's of other MMO's, but they all require me to buy a Box price, as well as all the expansions that they already have even if some is only  $6.99 and some is $50.00 and others in between and they also require me to subscribe.

    I am serious, I never knew that Asian's gets all their new MMO's without Box Prices or have to pay for Expansions and they get to play them for free, if it was at Internet Cafe's I understand, but still it requires internet time, but I am talking about playing it at home like most do in America.

    He's misleading you.  There's a reason why you don't have to pay box prices in places like China.

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/09/24/the-lawbringer-wow-in-china/

    My cousins live in South Korea and last I visisted them, they had a very standard home family PC that was only good for browsing.  Why?  They spent the majority of their time in internet cafes, that cost money to go to.  

    While they may not pay for box prices, the people who aren't time managed by their government spend as much or even more than NA/EUs do just to play a MMO.

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