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The Future of RMAH's

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  • paroxysmparoxysm Nowhere, INPosts: 437Member
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by paroxysm
     

    Depends on what you are rating it on.  It's a matter of perception.  Which, is a very personal thing.  Did it make a lot of money? Yep.  Did it launch incomplete, flip flop on ideas, and leave a lot of players feeling buyer's remorse over their based on name/reputation purchase?  Yes to that one also.  The more important aspect is how the latter will affect future sales.  Just like how D2 influenced purchases of D3.  Which, is a question only the individual can answer and Blizzard won't know until it looks at the bottom line of it's next game.

    I didn't buy D3 because I read up and knew what it was.  I didn't buy D3 because I'd already been turned off to Blizzard products from other previous products.  But, that's me.

    In short, only time will tell.

    Fun fact, Diablo2 only sold 4-5 Million in its lifetime.

    So if you are a business and D3 sold twice as much (in what 3 months?), what will D4 be like? Or D3 expansions?

    Time will tell but so far, all I'm seeing is 'Yes the public is buying D3 more than D2'.

    As I said in my post, calling something a success is based on what you are grading it on.  Sure, it sold a lot of up front copies.  If you base success only on that one factor in comparison to previous versions and other games, you could call it a success.  If you base it on game play, being incomplete still to this day/missing features, bugs, and impact on future purchases, you could say it's not truly a success just as easily.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by paroxysm
     

    As I said in my post, calling something a success is based on what you are grading it on.  Sure, it sold a lot of up front copies.  If you base success only on that one factor in comparison to previous versions and other games, you could call it a success.  If you base it on game play, being incomplete still to this day/missing features, bugs, and impact on future purchases, you could say it's not truly a success just as easily.

    I played D2 as much as everyone else that grinded through that game but if you factually look at D2 back in those days, it had its own set of issues. Stats not working at all or working totally in opposite of what it should be.

    Sorc being godly killing machines (oh wait! :P)

    Necro being absolutely useless in higher difficulty mode etc etc

     

    And lets just admit that D2 was pirated out of the wazoo once the private B.Net got up and running.

    I don't agree with the whole 'online only' thing but looking at how pirated D2 and SC1 was, I can't fault them trying something to curb that.

    While D3 has comically bad story, D2 has zero story.

    Impact of future purchases? It is still in the top10 sales chart for different regions.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • paroxysmparoxysm Nowhere, INPosts: 437Member
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by paroxysm
     

    As I said in my post, calling something a success is based on what you are grading it on.  Sure, it sold a lot of up front copies.  If you base success only on that one factor in comparison to previous versions and other games, you could call it a success.  If you base it on game play, being incomplete still to this day/missing features, bugs, and impact on future purchases, you could say it's not truly a success just as easily.

    I played D2 as much as everyone else that grinded through that game but if you factually look at D2 back in those days, it had its own set of issues. Stats not working at all or working totally in opposite of what it should be.

    Sorc being godly killing machines (oh wait! :P)

    Necro being absolutely useless in higher difficulty mode etc etc

     

    And lets just admit that D2 was pirated out of the wazoo once the private B.Net got up and running.

    I don't agree with the whole 'online only' thing but looking at how pirated D2 and SC1 was, I can't fault them trying something to curb that.

    While D3 has comically bad story, D2 has zero story.

    Impact of future purchases? It is still in the top10 sales chart for different regions.

    I never said D2 was a great game to me.  It was "good" for it's time.  And yes, it did have it's own large set of problems.  But, in my opinion, D3 did not improve on D2 in any real way other than some graphics quality.  And, it added a lot of crap I don't like to boot.  I am still 100% comfortable in my decision not to buy it after seeing what it offered.

    Also, the cheats and exploits for D3 have yet to peak.  The first expansion hasn't even launched yet.

    They could have still offered offline and online characters and kept online character integrity.  They chose not too for reasons that I won't even go into again.  But, it didn't stop what they wanted it to stop(cheats/exploits).  The only thing I haven't seen is a private bnet option...yet.

    But, none of that has anything to do with what I posted above except the last line.  D3 will affect future purchases of other Blizzard products/games as well as expansion packs for D3. 

  • Asuran24Asuran24 St. pual, MNPosts: 517Member
    I would much rather see a system where the players can exchange real-life money for gold, vise versa to use on a single auction house, but the real-life money that you exchanged for is only usable on the Auction house really or to pay for your gaming time. Then the price of any item on the action house is kinda set by the exchange rate that is in effect for that day or week or such. The great part of this is that yes a player wih extra money can still get really good gear by basically buying/exchange his money into gold, but the players that actually desire to can get the same same item as well just by grinding or selling some items for gold to exchange too. The insant you place two ahs in a game like in diablo one of those ahs will be favored by either the company or playerbase, and so i would rather find a way of having placing both real-money users an in-game currency users largely on the same level when using a single ah.  Like eve's plex system they use you can buy them and the price/conversion of those to in-game currency is set by the players largely gain the same advantage really thru it's use.
  • TheAncientTheAncient KirkcaldyPosts: 67Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    I like it too.

    The key is that finally a player, like me, can SELL items. And this will avoid gold inflation, because the currency is real and pecked to real value in the world.

    It's pretty far from a real economy since Blizzard control all loot drops, and I believe there are alleged reports of those drops being manipulated by Blizzard to maximise their own end return.

    I'd love to see the RMAH idea properly and thoroughly investigated by those more qualified than MMO review sites.

  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 543Member
    I wouldn't want RMAH in games that I intend to play, but having them in Blizzard games and cheapo asian ports is fine by me ;)

    The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

    -The MMO Forum Community

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by TheAncient
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    I like it too.

    The key is that finally a player, like me, can SELL items. And this will avoid gold inflation, because the currency is real and pecked to real value in the world.

    It's pretty far from a real economy since Blizzard control all loot drops, and I believe there are alleged reports of those drops being manipulated by Blizzard to maximise their own end return.

    I'd love to see the RMAH idea properly and thoroughly investigated by those more qualified than MMO review sites.

    It is real ... because real money is used. I didn't say blizz cannot manipulate the market. In fact, OTHER real money markets (like stock & bonds) can be manipulated too.

    The point is that the value is real, and NOT subject to arbitrary inflation as in a gold economy.

    Now, Blizz took $1 for each transaction. Since they are not taking a percentage, there is no point in manipulation the prices. If they want money, all they need to maximize is the number of transactions.

     

  • Yodi2007Yodi2007 Valdosta, GAPosts: 167Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Personally I would like to see more of the RMAH in MMO's. The game would have to be tailored for it though. I'm guessing Blizzard doesn't make nearly as much as they would if they charged a subscribtion fee for D3.

    I wouldn't want it to be "buy to win," but i think it would be a nice feature to have for stuff like non combat pets, comsmetic gear, and consumable items, like gems, enchants, food, and pots. It can be expensive in game cash to keep your gear enchanted with the best enchants and gems in WoW for example. Many people don't want to waste their play time farming.

    Imagine being able to actually make real money off your crafting profession.

    Of coarse no one has to spend money on these things, you could always go out and farm the mats and craft the stuff yourself, or have a friend do it.

     

    They might have to rework gear making professions, or just limit the things they can sell for real cash.

     

    I think it would be awesome if I could at least pay my game's monthly fee if nothing else from selling in game items.

    I think it could work for both P2P and F2P ( or B2P, basically the same) games.

    I'd never want to see RMAH's in my MMO! Keep it away it's just another way for CGF's to exploit and run prices through the roof!

    The game will be nothing but a P2W thing! Keep it in blizzard MMO's! It's like the fans over at apple who constantly buy a new Iphone or Ipad every 6 mos! If you're going for cash shops then stay only in cosmetic items only!

    Below is where we can disscuss and come up with new ideas for Sandparks!

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5164689#5164689

  • Kykyryz-aKykyryz-a AlmatyPosts: 113Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Lol, really, the RMAH is a great thing. It works for Diablo3. It really isn't hard to clear Act 1 inferno with very cheap gear you get of the GOLD AH.

    If players want to spend real money to advance then that's their choice. <<<<< Pay to win if you need it to advance in a game/

    Saying the RMAH will devolve into buy to win for games that implement it for things like I said in the first post is like saying games with similar things in their cash shops will devolve in to buy to win.

     

    There is a lot of potential for RMAH. Yeah, it's gonna be a shit fest when pvp goes live in D3, since players can buy the best gear with real money... don't like it don't play it.  <<<<<<Pay to WIN

     

    Care to share why it's such a bad thing besides the flawed assumption that it will devolve into buy to win? Keep in mind with what I suggested, ANY player can get the items traded through the RMAH whether or not they spend real money.

     

     

    Just to clear ---- normall Blizzard lover :)   will defend game till the end with out any clue about what he is saying.  Good Job Blizzard you done good job  probably 99% of fan have Apple products also.  My friend  has it i WANTTTT it tooo damnit !!!!

    image

  • Kykyryz-aKykyryz-a AlmatyPosts: 113Member
    Originally posted by Yodi2007
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Personally I would like to see more of the RMAH in MMO's. The game would have to be tailored for it though. I'm guessing Blizzard doesn't make nearly as much as they would if they charged a subscribtion fee for D3.

    I wouldn't want it to be "buy to win," but i think it would be a nice feature to have for stuff like non combat pets, comsmetic gear, and consumable items, like gems, enchants, food, and pots. It can be expensive in game cash to keep your gear enchanted with the best enchants and gems in WoW for example. Many people don't want to waste their play time farming.

    Imagine being able to actually make real money off your crafting profession.

    Of coarse no one has to spend money on these things, you could always go out and farm the mats and craft the stuff yourself, or have a friend do it.

     

    They might have to rework gear making professions, or just limit the things they can sell for real cash.

     

    I think it would be awesome if I could at least pay my game's monthly fee if nothing else from selling in game items.

    I think it could work for both P2P and F2P ( or B2P, basically the same) games.

    I'd never want to see RMAH's in my MMO! Keep it away it's just another way for CGF's to exploit and run prices through the roof!

    The game will be nothing but a P2W thing! Keep it in blizzard MMO's! It's like the fans over at apple who constantly buy a new Iphone or Ipad every 6 mos! If you're going for cash shops then stay only in cosmetic items only!

    nicely said :)))

    image

  • ValuaValua LiverpoolPosts: 520Member

    I'm all for RMAH's as long as the company doesn't also have a cash shop, and the company doesn't put items on the RMAH themselves.

     

    Only items available to find in game should be allowed on the RMAH.

     

    You could even have a sub with a RMAH as long as the company makes the sub appealing, somewhat like Eve's where you can buy gametime with ingame currency, but it would take a long time to aqquire (Unless you used the RMAH well.)

  • MidBossMidBoss Blank, WIPosts: 93Member

    I really can't pin down my disgust at RMAHs. Maybe I'll skim a few topics on the issue and someone will say something that clicks.

     

    (Edits because this isn't the thread for that kind of rant)

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    RMAH seems like a stepping stone to auction-based cash shop.  Regular players are going to get dominated by scripts/exploits/power-farming ... people who aren't likely to be valuable customers anyway.  So once the market has been created and you've got your player base segregated into producers and consumers, the rational next step of the business is to just ditch the producers and simply spawn all those goods directly into the market and pocket the entire profit.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member
    Originally posted by maplestone

    RMAH seems like a stepping stone to auction-based cash shop.  Regular players are going to get dominated by scripts/exploits/power-farming ... people who aren't likely to be valuable customers anyway.  So once the market has been created and you've got your player base segregated into producers and consumers, the rational next step of the business is to just ditch the producers and simply spawn all those goods directly into the market and pocket the entire profit.

    Scripts/exploits are controllable. Power farming could be controllable also... Maybe like a rested xp bonus, players who take longer breaks get bonuses to their GF/MF if we're talking in D3 terms.

    No westener is gonna play a developer controlled P2W cash shop game. They will however play if they have a chance at earning a little something themselves.

    Although if it were up to me I'd only have convenience items like I've been talking about the whole thread. Things like enchants, and other boosts that give an edge but aren't 100% necessary.

  • crazynannycrazynanny PopowoPosts: 173Member

    RMAH would be nice equivalent for regular cash shops, which are far more P2W than RMAH will ever be - due to infinite supply of items. Furthermore cash shops have way bigger influence on game development, which is commonly known as making game around cash shop. Surely RMAH allows that too, but not to same degree as after all it's players who have to supply needed items.

     

    So it's quite strange that so many peeps are okay with cash shops which are far worse then RMAH will ever be. Conservatism aka being afraid of new things? Not to mention in cash shop case only company profits, in D3 RMAH majority of money goes actually to player.

  • vgamervgamer Texas, IAPosts: 195Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Lol, really, the RMAH is a great thing. It works for Diablo3. It really isn't hard to clear Act 1 inferno with very cheap gear you get of the GOLD AH.

    If players want to spend real money to advance then that's their choice.

    Saying the RMAH will devolve into buy to win for games that implement it for things like I said in the first post is like saying games with similar things in their cash shops will devolve in to buy to win.

     

    There is a lot of potential for RMAH. Yeah, it's gonna be a shit fest when pvp goes live in D3, since players can buy the best gear with real money... don't like it don't play it.

     

    Care to share why it's such a bad thing besides the flawed assumption that it will devolve into buy to win? Keep in mind with what I suggested, ANY player can get the items traded through the RMAH whether or not they spend real money.

     

     

    So your main reasoning for RMAH is that since it won't hurt me, it doesn't matter if it's implemented. Guess what, it will hurt us all as gamers.

     

    I already said that Blizz is manipulating drop rates (hence the buff in some patch a while ago). That alone is undeniable proof of how YOUR RMAH will affect MY gameplay.

     

    Then you continue your reasoning and state it's a flawed assumption that it will devolve in p2w. How is it flawed? Just take a look at 10 years ago. Now if I told you at the time in 10 years we would have cash shops like those in Age of Conan and Runes of magic (aka pay 2 win), you would laugh at me telling me im a stupid fool.

     

     Now 10 years later, runes of magic seems quite acceptable, pay to win starts to become the norm (although most gamers still frown upon). Suddenly, industry giant Blizz introduces this RMAH, where you can buy gear. You don't think other companies will pick this up (since diablo 3 sold 10 million copies)? You don't see how it will become acceptible FOR COMPANIES to do this?

     

    Basically, because blizz did it it will be a more conventional thing to do. It will be forced down our throats and pay 2 win is inevitable.

     

     

     

    PS: On your statement about how hacks and bots will be controllable. Even the pentagon was not immune for hacks. Imagine how a game like diablo 3 will become a target for hackers once real money gets involved.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member
    Originally posted by vgamer
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    Lol, really, the RMAH is a great thing. It works for Diablo3. It really isn't hard to clear Act 1 inferno with very cheap gear you get of the GOLD AH.

    If players want to spend real money to advance then that's their choice.

    Saying the RMAH will devolve into buy to win for games that implement it for things like I said in the first post is like saying games with similar things in their cash shops will devolve in to buy to win.

     

    There is a lot of potential for RMAH. Yeah, it's gonna be a shit fest when pvp goes live in D3, since players can buy the best gear with real money... don't like it don't play it.

     

    Care to share why it's such a bad thing besides the flawed assumption that it will devolve into buy to win? Keep in mind with what I suggested, ANY player can get the items traded through the RMAH whether or not they spend real money.

     

     

    So your main reasoning for RMAH is that since it won't hurt me, it doesn't matter if it's implemented. Guess what, it will hurt us all as gamers.

     

    I already said that Blizz is manipulating drop rates (hence the buff in some patch a while ago). That alone is undeniable proof of how YOUR RMAH will affect MY gameplay.

     

    Then you continue your reasoning and state it's a flawed assumption that it will devolve in p2w. How is it flawed? Just take a look at 10 years ago. Now if I told you at the time in 10 years we would have cash shops like those in Age of Conan and Runes of magic (aka pay 2 win), you would laugh at me telling me im a stupid fool.

     

     Now 10 years later, runes of magic seems quite acceptable, pay to win starts to become the norm (although most gamers still frown upon). Suddenly, industry giant Blizz introduces this RMAH, where you can buy gear. You don't think other companies will pick this up (since diablo 3 sold 10 million copies)? You don't see how it will become acceptible FOR COMPANIES to do this?

     

    Basically, because blizz did it it will be a more conventional thing to do. It will be forced down our throats and pay 2 win is inevitable.

     

     

     

    PS: On your statement about how hacks and bots will be controllable. Even the pentagon was not immune for hacks. Imagine how a game like diablo 3 will become a target for hackers once real money gets involved.

    There's about a bajillion online companies that handle money everyday. I guess they should stop because they can be hacked?

    I don't even see how you came to the statement that it won't affect you. It will since it's in the game. Don't like it, don't play it... very simple.

    Things that let me make a profit while doing something I love hurts me... hmmm... interesting.

    I get it, you don't like the RMAH... moving on.

  • TheAncientTheAncient KirkcaldyPosts: 67Member

    I think this article nicely sums up why RMAH is bad.

    http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/131615-diablo-3-the-blizzard-sweatshop

    The only people who benefit from RMAH are Blizzard, Goldfarmers, and botters.

  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member
    Originally posted by TheAncient

    I think this article nicely sums up why RMAH is bad.

    http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/131615-diablo-3-the-blizzard-sweatshop

    The only people who benefit from RMAH are Blizzard, Goldfarmers, and botters.

    Exactly. It will turn you into a goldfarmer working for Blizzard.  I prefer to play games for fun. And if I work for someone I want much more money. And a much more interesting job...

  • SchuMidasSchuMidas JakartaPosts: 8Member
    what ever happen in D3 stays in D3, we cant let hell break losse
  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    It's not really true that only the farmers benefit. I play for 1-2 hours a day and have made under $50. Yeah the farmers can make better profits. But so what? No one is forcing people to play like this. The game is still there to be played any way the player sees fit.

    The "real farmers" are in every game. Actually letting legit players trade real money between each other is at least a step towards putting illegal selling out of business.

     

    You can't tell me that regular players can't make money, because being a regular player myself, I have already made a little off of it.

  • crazynannycrazynanny PopowoPosts: 173Member
    Originally posted by TheAncient

    I think this article nicely sums up why RMAH is bad.

    http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/131615-diablo-3-the-blizzard-sweatshop

    The only people who benefit from RMAH are Blizzard, Goldfarmers, and botters.

    This whole article is just haters conspiracy theory. Like Blizzard having shady deals with gold farmers or  selling items on RMAH...

     

    Not to mention whole article pressumption is that people are playing for money not for fun. Guess what had 200+ hours of solid entertainment from it, sold unneeded loot for different classes on RMAH and got enough to make D3 free + some summer Steam sale purchases. And why should I care that Blizz and Paypal got money from that? Name other game where I can play, have fun and get some pocket money from it(legal way that is)?

     

    RMAH is not all that shiny and good(i.e. there is way to big pressure on itemization and not enough challenge via skill) but people exaggerate ALOT about it. There are more than enough youtube videos that prove that you don't need huge sums of gold nor real life $ to play and finish whole D3. If one lacks skill, patience and time, yes RMAH is a convinient shortcut, but such people would go for goldfarmers/item trading sites anyways.

  • Salio69Salio69 under a rock, FLPosts: 428Member

    i can only see RMAH working if people are given a choice in server. one with a regular subscription, 9.99-14.99, and another FTP server with RMAH.

    this way players are given a choice to play the legit way, the way mmos were ment to be played.

    or play the lazy way, those with no desire to actually do something for themselves and the unemployeed who "work" for them.

    make sure theres no transfers allowed whatsoever between these 2 types of server and it will be win for legit players, win for the lazy players, and win for those who live with relatives and got no job.

  • crazynannycrazynanny PopowoPosts: 173Member
    Originally posted by Salio69                                                                                                                                                             (...)the unemployeed who "work" for them.

    (...) those who live with relatives and got no job.

    This baffles me, why assume that someone selling item at RMAH has no job and no income? You play, you find nice items you don't have any use for(or simply don't want to) and you sell them at RMAH. It's all about luck(or bad luck as finding good but useless items for your class is frustrating). Done this thousand times, only difference was there was no RMAH, only gold AH one. I don't even count items that got obsolete cause I didn't need gold and wanted to save them for later or I stopped playing game.

     

  • Salio69Salio69 under a rock, FLPosts: 428Member
    Originally posted by crazynanny
    Originally posted by Salio69                                                                                                                                                             (...)the unemployeed who "work" for them.

    (...) those who live with relatives and got no job.

    This baffles me, why assume that someone selling item at RMAH has no job and no income? You play, you find nice items you don't have any use for(or simply don't want to) and you sell them at RMAH. It's all about luck(or bad luck as finding good but useless items for your class is frustrating). Done this thousand times, only difference was there was no RMAH, only gold AH one. I don't even count items that got obsolete cause I didn't need gold and wanted to save them for later or I stopped playing game.

     

    because at the end of the day, its those people who will benefit the most. they will make giant bot farms, each sitting on its seperate VM, with its own IP, farming endless as the owner shifts through all of them to make sure they are functioning properly and to respond to any GM PMs.

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