Probably because the Developers know that Asian Themed MMO's dont do particularly well in the west and are trying to build a good strong base elsewhere.
More like the game itself lacks in content to begin with!
Aion: failed went to F2P, why? no real content.
TERA: no real content, although I give it points for having a very awesome combat system.
Heck, this happens even to western MMOS, look at SWTOR.
People have grown so accostumed to game play style that is wow: easy leveling to max level, then do dungeons to min/max then do raids for easy loot.
Players all found a comfort zone within a certain "type" of mmo; its not that we hate those games in any shape or form, it's just that they come out without the understanding of how to develop content to retain players.
That is partially players fault, but mostly the developers for not developing content or have a grasp on how to develop more content efficiently.
Well, in a sandbox game the players are the content and thank goodness for that.
Aion did not fail and it certainly had enough content for some players. The end game was more pvp content so I will give a nod that "end game Aion" might not have been enough for pve players.
Tera does not have enough end game content which is sad. I still play it but I am limited in what I can do.
Make it so that the main focus is the interaction of playesr and players who appreciate this type of game play (myself included) will flock.
Well, the 7 of us that are out there.
See thats the problem, and its mostly with gamers in the US.
Grinding use to mean there were a few quest that got you 10% of a level, you then had to kill thousands of mobs at a very low XP rate to get to the next level for a few more quests.
Grinding has become anything that requires time or effort. People dont want to spend time on progression or getting good gear. They basically want to log in and run pvp queues. To top it all off they dont want any imbalances, meaning what use to be class mechanics must be nerfed so that in pvp there are no real differences between classes other than look and possible range of combat.
Once a developer caves to this new class of gamers that for some reason occupy the RPG genere, that community then complains how theres nothing to do, its boring, and then they trash the game for years to come.
There are other global markets where the gamers play the game and enjoy it for what it is, i think its smart to go there first, and i say this as an american.
Also, americans have ZERO patience. None. If the game doesnt fully work all the way through flawlessly they then trash the game for years to come after quickly leaving. Little stuff is gamebreaking to them.
I would expect the future of mmorpgs to look more like foreign gaming companys making mmoRPG's then launching in the states years after creation...to avoid any bugs and create a good paying palyerbase elsewhere first. I would expect domestic gaming companies to remove as much of the RPG aspect from the game and start releasing games meant to be played and abandoned within a few months. GW2 fits this perception nicely.
I really think the root of the issue with western gamers, specifically american gamers, is we got a few million extremely vocal players who dont quite realize they hate anything RPG, yet continue to play and complain in hopes they get a mmorpg with no RPG in it that they can play and quit in a month or two...and thats exactly the kinds of games we see being developed.
You know NA gamers use to be the same as Russian Gamers before Warcraft came along.
I don't know what has happened to the current generation but I wouldn't exactly call them "gamers" now. Just a bunch of casuals that tried out world-of-warcraft for +7 years and now they think it's the only game to play. Companies saw the sucess of warcraft back in it's stage-light and have been driving this nail into game coffins ever since.
The North American Publishers Have Become Lazy and Greedy. The Players in North America Have Become Lazy and Easy.It's that guy that plays SWTOR, Rift, Or Warcraft is all the gaming industry focuses on. That's their focus and unfortunately it can (and has) a negative impact effect on players who are just tired of warcraft being thrown as the only acceptable way of gaming.Automatically, exclusively there's been an attitude thrown around that "Korean Games Suck, Korean Grindfest" and it even reflects on the PR in America itself too (the amount of games that get bashed simply for being asian is astonishing. Check out Atelieru Meruru on Gamespot where the reviewer makes oddball critisim comments about the characters being "too young" and "sexualized girls" when all the female characters are wearing pretty embroided victorian-tops and bloomers with skirts). Players that tried out Aion bounce back and fourth of how much the game was a "fail". It's an old, standard 2006 type-click game that really was no different from any other game that came out during that time too.
What helped Aion on it's way to bad-door reputation is that the game was handled cheaply by NcSoftWest. Ontop of the PS that were popping up that eventually forced the game to go F2P too. I don't particularly miss the grunts and screams of the female characters in the Westernized verison of Aion.
The Russians? They don't care about real-life or minor things when it comes to games. They play the games for their fun and worth. That's why it was Russians who first made a PS of Tera. It was Russians who also checked out ArcheAge.
I think it was a good move that AA is finding grounds in the russian market. Unlike the people, companies, and players here that cringe to new ideas the russians are more acceptable to different game-play styles. And things like Elin don't make the russians flinch unlike our super-artifical morally "correct" main-stream casual mmo gamers(Yet I can walk right over to gamestop and buy HyperDimensionMK2 and 1 uncensored in the United States. Ironic. Also with Ar Tonelico and Diseaga series. All contain characters that the West MMO Publishers(and some review-websites) went out their way preaching and moralizing the TERA game on for the same exact thing.)
Not only that but even looking at our standard MMO' forums and their pretty much cringe-worthy with the amount of bickering and trolling that goes on. We don't even respect other gamers and it's become a elite big-head trash-fest than anything else. I've played with Korean-Gamers and although their old-school competitious(they will face-roll in PVP!) they do show some respect for their fellow players and will socialize with you if you socialize with them.
Then we have the gamers who simply just hate the asian art-style for whatever reason. Either it's lacking that cartoonish bugs-bunny WoW look or they just don't like it. They complain it's too "asian" yet the game is created in an asian country.
When I was gaming I grew up with games like Ragnarok Online(The blend of 2D avatars rendered smoothly within 3D environments) while the casual gamers were playing low-end polygon MMO's that just looked terrible(and still do today). Ragnarok was Korean(I didn't know it was Korean atm but I knew it wasn't a western-made game) It was unlike any other game I played. Had the lovely asian art-styles and story-depth I liked, and it also had one of the most awesome sound-tracks I heard in the game along with customization features for the avatar and tons of in-game content, tons of dungeons, full-length maps, Guild and and PVP, and difficulty levels.
Earning things in the game actually felt like achievements. Beating the bosses weren't so easy. Rare-items actually were less likely to drop. The stories in the quest actually made me interested in the world which my avatar was moving around in. Fast-foward past WoW and gaming has turned into a silver-platter of privilages and super-easy play. GW2 even tries to turn Western MMO's even more casual by Max-Leveling PVP and Weapons.
Another problem is that these main-stream casual gamers just rushes through the game like it's a race against time. Quickly turn level x to x and beat the game. They burn themselves out early because Korean Games aren't meant to just run and zip-by in. Then they have nothing else to do but slowly wait on a patch to come through and all the games become about is just PVP to fill up the time.
Its a well knows fact Asian's can grind 20 hours straight farming the same mobs for days on end.
We western folks dont want to farm the same shit 24/7 even tough we might have a few people in our mids who can and will do that kind of stuff.
MMO's that are to grindy are shit, who wants to spend their few little off hours grinding the same mobs for hours on end ?
So i just worked 8 hours, come home to my family we cook play and when to kids go to bed we have some spare time to game.
You realy want to keep pressing 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 mob dead tab target 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 tab target 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 for hours on end ?
Sorry but those games belong to the past.
MMO's need to deliver a far higher quality then it used to or it fails.
I tend to aggree that Western players whine alot, but in most cases we are right :P
Archage does look epic to me tough, my wife realy want to gove that gamer a try, altough i warned her that this might even be more grindy then Vanila Aion.
Its a well knows fact Asian's can grind 20 hours straight farming the same mobs for days on end.
We western folks dont want to farm the same shit 24/7 even tough we might have a few people in our mids who can and will do that kind of stuff.
MMO's that are to grindy are shit, who wants to spend their few little off hours grinding the same mobs for hours on end ?
So i just worked 8 hours, come home to my family we cook play and when to kids go to bed we have some spare time to game.
You realy want to keep pressing 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 mob dead tab target 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 tab target 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 for hours on end ?
Sorry but those games belong to the past.
MMO's need to deliver a far higher quality then it used to or it fails.
I tend to aggree that Western players whine alot, but in most cases we are right :P
Archage does look epic to me tough, my wife realy want to gove that gamer a try, altough i warned her that this might even be more grindy then Vanila Aion.
Lol you say that but half the time even in TERA the player is killing the same monsters over and over again(especially in Nexus). Just a dyed a different color.
"I tend to aggree that Western players whine alot, but in most cases we are right :P"
Sorry but half of the time it's difficult for you casual players to even play the games right. It has to be made extremely easy and hand-holding for the type that picks up that game for a little bit of hours then goes back to whatever else they were doing RL. It's this type of mentallity that unfortunately ruins the rest of the games coming out for players who don't have this casual-fest problem.
The games get stripped until there's nothing left or become easier that players are literally burning through the game then sitting around with nothing to do (TERA. I remember posting once on their forums how removing the powders and crystals will screw the enchanting and it did. Now people are walking around with +9 weapons and nothing else to do. Why? Because they burned through all the content.)
Archage does look epic to me tough, my wife realy want to gove that gamer a try, altough i warned her that this might even be more grindy then Vanila Aion.
You are basing this "grinding" thing about AA on.. what exactly?
There's multitudes of videos out there from betas, some (p)reviews, nobody who actually played beta had said anything about grinding.
Also, if the game is at least partially a sandbox, and we know it is, you know you can do anything you want anytime you want, so where's the grind there? There's no strict road to follow to get to max level.
If you keep thinking how every Asian MMO is a "grinder", you may remember that MANY popular western MMORPGs had grind elements, even sandboxes like Star Wars Galaxies.
One other thing to think about is - even if you get tired of your certain class, you can start again and choose another one out of 120 classes. Lol.
Archage does look epic to me tough, my wife realy want to gove that gamer a try, altough i warned her that this might even be more grindy then Vanila Aion.
You are basing this "grinding" thing about AA on.. what exactly?
There's multitudes of videos out there from betas, some (p)reviews, nobody who actually played beta had said anything about grinding.
Also, if the game is at least partially a sandbox, and we know it is, you know you can do anything you want anytime you want, so where's the grind there? There's no strict road to follow to get to max level.
If you keep thinking how every Asian MMO is a "grinder", you may remember that MANY popular western MMORPGs had grind elements, even sandboxes like Star Wars Galaxies.
One other thing to think about is - even if you get tired of your certain class, you can start again and choose another one out of 120 classes. Lol.
Problem is that person has a different definition for the word 'grind', there's no point trying to explain anything until that person puts in the time to elaborate.
I played Archlord which took 10 hours to get 1 level after level 65, I consider that the definition of grind.
There are a number of possible reasons why ArcheAge is going to Russia first, but the idea that Americans are too stupid to understand the game and they need to dumb it down I think was disproven to them when American gamers prefered the actual Final Fantasy games over Mystic Quest(even if I kinda liked that game anyways).
Its more likely(in my opinion anyways) that its going to Russia first because its probably cheaper. That way they can test the waters of a non Korean audience more cheaply then releasing it first to Americans.
They have more people in beta, their fansites are big and last but not least Russians don't bitch about "omg I actually have to spend time in this game to achieve something" or "omg I might get killed in this game" or "it is so grindy I cannot level to max level in 2 weeks in ArcheAge".
That's are reasons.
ArcheAge has a chance in the west, but amount of bitching this game will get from NA & EU playerbase will be astounding.
Many people write that they don't want easy-mode or quick conveniant levelling path and similar things, but once they get it it is "gtfo with this grinder Fail" attitude.
+ more people in Russia will have knowegedle about what kind of game it is (rememebr AA so no NDA at all).
I know people that are talking about how they wait for AA and when they saw combat they said "it is not action combat FAIL!"
when it is known for 2 years and there are thousand of videos on youtube that show that AA has tradicional combat system.
How can you have interest in game for weeks and have not watch few freely conveniently avabile videos about it?
Originally posted by Myria Clearly Occam's Razor is a foreign concept to most of you.
I get Occam's Razor.
But I am uncertain about the Heisenberg's principle.
We need to start thinking of MMO's as we do music or literature or the movies. There is not one MMO or one game that will be universally satisfactory to everyone's taste. MMO's don't come in one genre just as books or music doesn't come in one genre. Change and innovation is a good thing in the MMO industry just as it is in literature and music, but every MMO doesn't need to push the envelope or be cutting edge to be "good" or fun. It just needs to be good. The same is true for music. The same is true for books or for movies. Music evolves. MMO's evolve. Storytelling evolves. And in doing so, it doesn't make obsolete or not enjoyable everything that's been done before.
1- North America players want everythign handed to them on a platter. And if they dont get it they bitch.
2- north Americal only wants WoW based gameplay....yup its true!
3-north America hates sandbox games because it actually makes them work! they are the fattest country in the world after all...
4-Would mean players actually have to use there brains to play! Since NA is used to dungeon/instance finders whast the need to leave the city?
Oh and Russia is better!
Couldn't simply be because they have a Russia publisher but not a publisher for the US? Nah that couldn't have anything to do with it.
Also your own arguement seems to imply that Russia has lower standards, are unwilling to speek out about bugs, poor game play etc. and are more willing just to simply except whatever they are offered. Not sure that really qualifies as better but then whatever fuels your tinfoil hat waring conspiricy theories.
You have your opinions i have mine. I do live in North America, I don't play WoW, and I'm backing Pathfinder onlines kickstarter, guess that proves alot of your broad generalization of North America wrong. Hate much?
Comments
See thats the problem, and its mostly with gamers in the US.
Grinding use to mean there were a few quest that got you 10% of a level, you then had to kill thousands of mobs at a very low XP rate to get to the next level for a few more quests.
Grinding has become anything that requires time or effort. People dont want to spend time on progression or getting good gear. They basically want to log in and run pvp queues. To top it all off they dont want any imbalances, meaning what use to be class mechanics must be nerfed so that in pvp there are no real differences between classes other than look and possible range of combat.
Once a developer caves to this new class of gamers that for some reason occupy the RPG genere, that community then complains how theres nothing to do, its boring, and then they trash the game for years to come.
There are other global markets where the gamers play the game and enjoy it for what it is, i think its smart to go there first, and i say this as an american.
Also, americans have ZERO patience. None. If the game doesnt fully work all the way through flawlessly they then trash the game for years to come after quickly leaving. Little stuff is gamebreaking to them.
I would expect the future of mmorpgs to look more like foreign gaming companys making mmoRPG's then launching in the states years after creation...to avoid any bugs and create a good paying palyerbase elsewhere first. I would expect domestic gaming companies to remove as much of the RPG aspect from the game and start releasing games meant to be played and abandoned within a few months. GW2 fits this perception nicely.
I really think the root of the issue with western gamers, specifically american gamers, is we got a few million extremely vocal players who dont quite realize they hate anything RPG, yet continue to play and complain in hopes they get a mmorpg with no RPG in it that they can play and quit in a month or two...and thats exactly the kinds of games we see being developed.
You know NA gamers use to be the same as Russian Gamers before Warcraft came along.
I don't know what has happened to the current generation but I wouldn't exactly call them "gamers" now. Just a bunch of casuals that tried out world-of-warcraft for +7 years and now they think it's the only game to play. Companies saw the sucess of warcraft back in it's stage-light and have been driving this nail into game coffins ever since.
The North American Publishers Have Become Lazy and Greedy. The Players in North America Have Become Lazy and Easy. It's that guy that plays SWTOR, Rift, Or Warcraft is all the gaming industry focuses on. That's their focus and unfortunately it can (and has) a negative impact effect on players who are just tired of warcraft being thrown as the only acceptable way of gaming.Automatically, exclusively there's been an attitude thrown around that "Korean Games Suck, Korean Grindfest" and it even reflects on the PR in America itself too (the amount of games that get bashed simply for being asian is astonishing. Check out Atelieru Meruru on Gamespot where the reviewer makes oddball critisim comments about the characters being "too young" and "sexualized girls" when all the female characters are wearing pretty embroided victorian-tops and bloomers with skirts). Players that tried out Aion bounce back and fourth of how much the game was a "fail". It's an old, standard 2006 type-click game that really was no different from any other game that came out during that time too.
What helped Aion on it's way to bad-door reputation is that the game was handled cheaply by NcSoftWest. Ontop of the PS that were popping up that eventually forced the game to go F2P too. I don't particularly miss the grunts and screams of the female characters in the Westernized verison of Aion.
The Russians? They don't care about real-life or minor things when it comes to games. They play the games for their fun and worth. That's why it was Russians who first made a PS of Tera. It was Russians who also checked out ArcheAge.
I think it was a good move that AA is finding grounds in the russian market. Unlike the people, companies, and players here that cringe to new ideas the russians are more acceptable to different game-play styles. And things like Elin don't make the russians flinch unlike our super-artifical morally "correct" main-stream casual mmo gamers(Yet I can walk right over to gamestop and buy HyperDimensionMK2 and 1 uncensored in the United States. Ironic. Also with Ar Tonelico and Diseaga series. All contain characters that the West MMO Publishers(and some review-websites) went out their way preaching and moralizing the TERA game on for the same exact thing.)
Not only that but even looking at our standard MMO' forums and their pretty much cringe-worthy with the amount of bickering and trolling that goes on. We don't even respect other gamers and it's become a elite big-head trash-fest than anything else. I've played with Korean-Gamers and although their old-school competitious(they will face-roll in PVP!) they do show some respect for their fellow players and will socialize with you if you socialize with them.
Then we have the gamers who simply just hate the asian art-style for whatever reason. Either it's lacking that cartoonish bugs-bunny WoW look or they just don't like it. They complain it's too "asian" yet the game is created in an asian country.
When I was gaming I grew up with games like Ragnarok Online(The blend of 2D avatars rendered smoothly within 3D environments) while the casual gamers were playing low-end polygon MMO's that just looked terrible(and still do today). Ragnarok was Korean(I didn't know it was Korean atm but I knew it wasn't a western-made game) It was unlike any other game I played. Had the lovely asian art-styles and story-depth I liked, and it also had one of the most awesome sound-tracks I heard in the game along with customization features for the avatar and tons of in-game content, tons of dungeons, full-length maps, Guild and and PVP, and difficulty levels.
Earning things in the game actually felt like achievements. Beating the bosses weren't so easy. Rare-items actually were less likely to drop. The stories in the quest actually made me interested in the world which my avatar was moving around in. Fast-foward past WoW and gaming has turned into a silver-platter of privilages and super-easy play. GW2 even tries to turn Western MMO's even more casual by Max-Leveling PVP and Weapons.
Another problem is that these main-stream casual gamers just rushes through the game like it's a race against time. Quickly turn level x to x and beat the game. They burn themselves out early because Korean Games aren't meant to just run and zip-by in. Then they have nothing else to do but slowly wait on a patch to come through and all the games become about is just PVP to fill up the time.I'm imagining how Viggo Mortenson in Eastern Promises would do just that!
wow living in the 1980's or something?
Maybe it was chosen first because they are next freakin door to the developers, but dont let me ruin all the hyperbole.
Does this title not answer its own questions with people bitching about it being released in Russia?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
That's are reasons, indeed.
Its a well knows fact Asian's can grind 20 hours straight farming the same mobs for days on end.
We western folks dont want to farm the same shit 24/7 even tough we might have a few people in our mids who can and will do that kind of stuff.
MMO's that are to grindy are shit, who wants to spend their few little off hours grinding the same mobs for hours on end ?
So i just worked 8 hours, come home to my family we cook play and when to kids go to bed we have some spare time to game.
You realy want to keep pressing 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 mob dead tab target 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 tab target 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 for hours on end ?
Sorry but those games belong to the past.
MMO's need to deliver a far higher quality then it used to or it fails.
I tend to aggree that Western players whine alot, but in most cases we are right :P
Archage does look epic to me tough, my wife realy want to gove that gamer a try, altough i warned her that this might even be more grindy then Vanila Aion.
Lol you say that but half the time even in TERA the player is killing the same monsters over and over again(especially in Nexus). Just a dyed a different color.
"I tend to aggree that Western players whine alot, but in most cases we are right :P"
Sorry but half of the time it's difficult for you casual players to even play the games right. It has to be made extremely easy and hand-holding for the type that picks up that game for a little bit of hours then goes back to whatever else they were doing RL. It's this type of mentallity that unfortunately ruins the rest of the games coming out for players who don't have this casual-fest problem.
The games get stripped until there's nothing left or become easier that players are literally burning through the game then sitting around with nothing to do (TERA. I remember posting once on their forums how removing the powders and crystals will screw the enchanting and it did. Now people are walking around with +9 weapons and nothing else to do. Why? Because they burned through all the content.)
You are basing this "grinding" thing about AA on.. what exactly?
There's multitudes of videos out there from betas, some (p)reviews, nobody who actually played beta had said anything about grinding.
Also, if the game is at least partially a sandbox, and we know it is, you know you can do anything you want anytime you want, so where's the grind there? There's no strict road to follow to get to max level.
If you keep thinking how every Asian MMO is a "grinder", you may remember that MANY popular western MMORPGs had grind elements, even sandboxes like Star Wars Galaxies.
One other thing to think about is - even if you get tired of your certain class, you can start again and choose another one out of 120 classes. Lol.
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
Problem is that person has a different definition for the word 'grind', there's no point trying to explain anything until that person puts in the time to elaborate.
I played Archlord which took 10 hours to get 1 level after level 65, I consider that the definition of grind.
[mod edit]
There are a number of possible reasons why ArcheAge is going to Russia first, but the idea that Americans are too stupid to understand the game and they need to dumb it down I think was disproven to them when American gamers prefered the actual Final Fantasy games over Mystic Quest(even if I kinda liked that game anyways).
Its more likely(in my opinion anyways) that its going to Russia first because its probably cheaper. That way they can test the waters of a non Korean audience more cheaply then releasing it first to Americans.
hi guys . b4 u jump to conclusion.
I'm Russian and we didnt got 100% true info about AA release in our country. But many many things goes ti it , for example http://secret.mail.ru/ .
plus we have huuuge expereance in la2. Russians love PK more than raids or BG.
Many ppl was disapointed about mail.ru since they localized lotro. And we still hope that EU release is'nt take long time.
+ mail.ru has allods team who working with they project called skyforge,and other ppl think that secret is skyforge, not AA.
however we all could see, what happens when timer stop.
There's a perception amongst game devs that westerners want wow clones.
+1
Yeah,u right.
U wrong , what can i say .
We allready has huge holywars at our forums , and the game isnt released yet , moreover we has it at cbt 3 .
And if Russia made this huge interest of AA , why it was'nt a reason ...
europe is worse trust me....
yes
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
This is the most embarrasing thread I've ever seen on this website in a long time.
I get Occam's Razor.
But I am uncertain about the Heisenberg's principle.
Couldn't simply be because they have a Russia publisher but not a publisher for the US? Nah that couldn't have anything to do with it.
Also your own arguement seems to imply that Russia has lower standards, are unwilling to speek out about bugs, poor game play etc. and are more willing just to simply except whatever they are offered. Not sure that really qualifies as better but then whatever fuels your tinfoil hat waring conspiricy theories.
You have your opinions i have mine. I do live in North America, I don't play WoW, and I'm backing Pathfinder onlines kickstarter, guess that proves alot of your broad generalization of North America wrong. Hate much?
All your base are belong to us!