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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Free to Play This Fall

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Comments

  • MisarisMisaris Cougartown, NEPosts: 140Member
    they have been promising more frequent updates since the beginning.
    Still waiting for proper space combat, then I would try it again.
    but for now I'm very happy with TSW and soon Planetside2

    and yes, blamimg EA is pretty dumb, the game got developed by BW with a monster budget and dropped the ball.
    Completely wrong concept.

    This should have been STAR WARS GALAXIES 2, plus story. Epic win.
  • AlienShirtAlienShirt Crashed Flying SaucerPosts: 613Member Uncommon
    I remember last year all the grief SWTOR fans gave to people who claimed SWTOR would be F2P within a year. I guess the harbingers of doom were the ones who were right.
  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member
    Originally posted by LucienRene
    Originally posted by Deewe
    Originally posted by knighthammer

    2.4million+  sales - that was last time i checked - , could easily say less than 700k people left and falling badly and F2P in less than 8 months.

    One f the greatest IP / universe backgrounds  in the world combined with one of the best teams in Bioware at storytelling and thanks to EA its now poodoo, never going to recover due to the sub loses, dont have the resources and money to expand as quick as they will want.

    Yeah yeah, EA blah blah bah...

     

    • $200 milions to make the game (3 times rift, even more AoC, even much more LotRo)
    • 6 years to build it (around 1.5x the time any MMO studio had)
    • Buying a pre-made engine to develop faster
    • A supposedly insane marketing budget and campain
    • Giving BioWare a carte blanche to make the game
    • Full support from LA
     
    And yet you guys keep blaming EA?
     
    So what? They should have given BioWare even more $$$ and more time?
     
    The game would have been a failure anyway because the leads have no clue of how to make a great MMO nor manage such a large scale project.
     
     

    I think you nailed it.  It wasn't EA's fault the game failed.  It was Bioware's

    Actually, I think both are at fault. According to these reviews from ex/current BioWare employees, quite a few workers have issues with management and a number of them mention EA pretty much running the show and destroying the company.

    image

  • LucienReneLucienRene Dallas, TXPosts: 20Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by heartless
    Originally posted by LucienRene
    Originally posted by Deewe
    Originally posted by knighthammer

    2.4million+  sales - that was last time i checked - , could easily say less than 700k people left and falling badly and F2P in less than 8 months.

    One f the greatest IP / universe backgrounds  in the world combined with one of the best teams in Bioware at storytelling and thanks to EA its now poodoo, never going to recover due to the sub loses, dont have the resources and money to expand as quick as they will want.

    Yeah yeah, EA blah blah bah...

     

    • $200 milions to make the game (3 times rift, even more AoC, even much more LotRo)
    • 6 years to build it (around 1.5x the time any MMO studio had)
    • Buying a pre-made engine to develop faster
    • A supposedly insane marketing budget and campain
    • Giving BioWare a carte blanche to make the game
    • Full support from LA
     
    And yet you guys keep blaming EA?
     
    So what? They should have given BioWare even more $$$ and more time?
     
    The game would have been a failure anyway because the leads have no clue of how to make a great MMO nor manage such a large scale project.
     
     

    I think you nailed it.  It wasn't EA's fault the game failed.  It was Bioware's

    Actually, I think both are at fault. According to these reviews from ex/current BioWare employees, quite a few workers have issues with management and a number of them mention EA pretty much running the show and destroying the company.

    After my reading of the reviews at your link, it seems the issues are with BIOWARE'S management, combined with EA's wanting a return on their investment (who'd a thunk an investor would want their money back?).  So it would seem EA apparently thought that Bioware Austin were gamegods, handed them a chunk of cash and said, "Do you," and then like a lot of folks were caught blindsided when it didn't work....  /shrug.  Not EA's fault.  Bioware's.  Bioware's vision.  Bioware's decisions.  EA's cash. 

    To clarify, EA wants to make money.  Bioware makes good games that MAKE money.  There's no need to mess with that formula UNTIL Bioware stops making money (by not making a good game, in this case: TOR).

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member
    Originally posted by LucienRene
    Originally posted by heartless
    Originally posted by LucienRene
    Originally posted by Deewe
    Originally posted by knighthammer

    2.4million+  sales - that was last time i checked - , could easily say less than 700k people left and falling badly and F2P in less than 8 months.

    One f the greatest IP / universe backgrounds  in the world combined with one of the best teams in Bioware at storytelling and thanks to EA its now poodoo, never going to recover due to the sub loses, dont have the resources and money to expand as quick as they will want.

    Yeah yeah, EA blah blah bah...

     

    • $200 milions to make the game (3 times rift, even more AoC, even much more LotRo)
    • 6 years to build it (around 1.5x the time any MMO studio had)
    • Buying a pre-made engine to develop faster
    • A supposedly insane marketing budget and campain
    • Giving BioWare a carte blanche to make the game
    • Full support from LA
     
    And yet you guys keep blaming EA?
     
    So what? They should have given BioWare even more $$$ and more time?
     
    The game would have been a failure anyway because the leads have no clue of how to make a great MMO nor manage such a large scale project.
     
     

    I think you nailed it.  It wasn't EA's fault the game failed.  It was Bioware's

    Actually, I think both are at fault. According to these reviews from ex/current BioWare employees, quite a few workers have issues with management and a number of them mention EA pretty much running the show and destroying the company.

    After my reading of the reviews at your link, it seems the issues are with BIOWARE'S management, combined with EA's wanting a return on their investment (who'd a thunk an investor would want their money back?).  So it would seem EA apparently thought that Bioware Austin were gamegods, handed them a chunk of cash and said, "Do you," and then like a lot of folks were caught blindsided when it didn't work....  /shrug.  Not EA's fault.  Bioware's.  Bioware's vision.  Bioware's decisions.  EA's cash. 

    To clarify, EA wants to make money.  Bioware makes good games that MAKE money.  There's no need to mess with that formula UNTIL Bioware stops making money (by not making a good game, in this case: TOR).


    You can't blame this only on BioWare when EA is basically running the show. Both are equally at fault, in my opinion. BioWare has severe management issues but EA is known to stiffle creativity. Both, in their own special way, contributed to making SWTOR what it is today.

    image

  • william0532william0532 portland, ORPosts: 251Member
    Originally posted by heartless
    Originally posted by LucienRene
    Originally posted by heartless
    Originally posted by LucienRene
    Originally posted by Deewe
    Originally posted by knighthammer

    2.4million+  sales - that was last time i checked - , could easily say less than 700k people left and falling badly and F2P in less than 8 months.

    One f the greatest IP / universe backgrounds  in the world combined with one of the best teams in Bioware at storytelling and thanks to EA its now poodoo, never going to recover due to the sub loses, dont have the resources and money to expand as quick as they will want.

    Yeah yeah, EA blah blah bah...

     

    • $200 milions to make the game (3 times rift, even more AoC, even much more LotRo)
    • 6 years to build it (around 1.5x the time any MMO studio had)
    • Buying a pre-made engine to develop faster
    • A supposedly insane marketing budget and campain
    • Giving BioWare a carte blanche to make the game
    • Full support from LA
     
    And yet you guys keep blaming EA?
     
    So what? They should have given BioWare even more $$$ and more time?
     
    The game would have been a failure anyway because the leads have no clue of how to make a great MMO nor manage such a large scale project.
     
     

    I think you nailed it.  It wasn't EA's fault the game failed.  It was Bioware's

    Actually, I think both are at fault. According to these reviews from ex/current BioWare employees, quite a few workers have issues with management and a number of them mention EA pretty much running the show and destroying the company.

    After my reading of the reviews at your link, it seems the issues are with BIOWARE'S management, combined with EA's wanting a return on their investment (who'd a thunk an investor would want their money back?).  So it would seem EA apparently thought that Bioware Austin were gamegods, handed them a chunk of cash and said, "Do you," and then like a lot of folks were caught blindsided when it didn't work....  /shrug.  Not EA's fault.  Bioware's.  Bioware's vision.  Bioware's decisions.  EA's cash. 

    To clarify, EA wants to make money.  Bioware makes good games that MAKE money.  There's no need to mess with that formula UNTIL Bioware stops making money (by not making a good game, in this case: TOR).


    You can't blame this only on BioWare when EA is basically running the show. Both are equally at fault, in my opinion. BioWare has severe management issues but EA is known to stiffle creativity. Both, in their own special way, contributed to making SWTOR what it is today.

    I blame it straight on bioware, EA didn't make the game, just paid for it and distributed it. Bioware bet on story, over stuff to do. Games boring. Its basically missing something that everyone wants(even though those are all different things). If EA would have made the game, huttball would be more fun(madden joke)

  • MisarisMisaris Cougartown, NEPosts: 140Member
    SOE and BW should have made SWG2 instead. Ten year old SWG offered so much more.
  • SanHorSanHor ZagrebPosts: 336Member
    Lol epic fail
  • ValecruizValecruiz Sussex, WIPosts: 21Member

    As a prologue, let me clarify that I was a huge supporter of ToR since pre-launch, so I'm not a straight-up hater of the game.

    1. F2P is not the holy savior of MMO's.  Games thrived for decades in the past based on the sub model (which is longer than most F2P games can say as of now).  That doesn't mean it's a bad system, but shut up about the business model.  The money isn't the problem, you don't see people bitch about xbox live (50 for the year), magazine subscriptions or anything like that.  THE PROBLEM IS: Most of these new games are being released with so much fanatic praise that the release content isn't enough.

    2.  Bioware was once a brilliant company.  Just look at Neverwinter Nights, the original KOTOR and Jade Empire (even DA 1, since it released just shortly after being consumed by EA).  The problem is Electronic Arts.  That company is garbage and they seep that garbage into their satellite companies.  Recent BW games (think Dragon Age and Mass Effect) have started as RPGs, only to eschew them in sequels for the sake of "changing direction."  Bugger that, it's because EA wants to appeal to the "broader audience" and in the process fuck up.  Don't protect EA, it's shoved it's grubby money fingers down our throats and too many people keep asking for seconds.

    3.  Gamers need to stop looking for a "WoW-killer."  It's not going to happen.  In all likelyhood, WoW will burn itself out and die gracefully, leaving Blizzard a shit-load of cash to do whatever they want next.  What we should look for are developers trying to push the borders of MMO's in new directions.  We will probably never see another monolith like WoW in the coming decade, just let it sit on it's money-made throne and move the fuck on.

    tl;dr Games thrived before F2P, Stop trying to defend the shitty company Electronic Arts, and stop hyping the shit out of games in hopes of making it a WoW-killer.

    Balance Over All

  • SwampRobSwampRob Halifax, NSPosts: 1,008Member
    Originally posted by Dalmont

    F2P i guess is the model for crap. Real games are subscription :P

    Anyone who still believes this is true is utterly clueless about today's gaming market.

     

    Regarding SWTOR, I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so.

  • AeonFluxionAeonFluxion Las Vegas, NVPosts: 4Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    I'm gonna predict a Star Wars Galaxies relaunch by December.

    LOL.  This is the last Star Wars MMO we see for at least two decades.

  • JayRoc_1JayRoc_1 Floral City, FLPosts: 3Member
    i"ll come back long enough to see if i can actually get involved, paying to play the launched sub game was a bit much to ask, after a few weeks no one was there to group with if ya wanted too, but all ya had to do was over level and come back too complete the story, not sure how that was intended to keep people striveing to group at lvl for the quests "the first step to a man or a nation is discontent"
  • Cameron27Cameron27 Fort Collins, COPosts: 142Member
    Originally posted by SwampRob
    Originally posted by Dalmont

    F2P i guess is the model for crap. Real games are subscription :P

    Anyone who still believes this is true is utterly clueless about today's gaming market.

     

    Regarding SWTOR, I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so.

    LOLOLOL I'm quoting you in my signature

    "I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so." SwampRob

  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member
    Originally posted by SwampRob
    Originally posted by Dalmont

    F2P i guess is the model for crap. Real games are subscription :P

    Anyone who still believes this is true is utterly clueless about today's gaming market.

     

    Regarding SWTOR, I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so.

    Wouldn't that kind of destroy the point of gear based MMOs if everyone could get the best gear without grouping?

  • No.6No.6 Lansing, MIPosts: 12Member

    F2P:  Is not doom.  

    People used to pay by the hour ($6/hour and up) to play text-based MMORPGs on services like Compuserve and GEnie.  Hell, they used to pay by the CPU cycle and connect hour.  So we moved past that to monthly sub fees, and from there now to hybrid F2P models and other microtransactions.

    In my opinion, the only way to keep a monthly sub game is to have enough "end-game" that people are really not "ending" but instead competing with each other to have the best stat, PvP capability, guild size or whatever. 

    Many newer games aren't really designing that intentional bottleneck (what I call World of Lord of the Flies) but instead providing storylines.  A couple examples would be the recently launched The Secret World and of course SWTOR.  In this sort of game blazing through isn't really the best way to enjoy the game.

    However, since a monthly sub really translates into "all you can eat," deliberate play is at odds with that design!  If you play with the mindset of "gotta grind though this and reach the end-game where all the fun is" you will miss the intended fun, get bored at the end, and quit.

     

    EA:  Is (almost always) doom.

    I have really never seen a company so antipathic towards the creative genius needed to actually make a great game and more mind-crushingly dedicated to design by shareholder.  How many studios and names had their genre-breaking or genre-creating creations dumbed down and terminated with the very next release after EA became their parent company? When was the last great "Jane's" simulator, or the line-up-at-the-door Ultima or Wing Commander Origins release?  Anyone really thinking the next Sim City will be permitted to be even good?

    I even have doubts they can manage a F2P transition without making players feel both pressured to buy microtransactions and nauseated in doing so.  We'll see.  I've spent $0 on SWTOR to date (don't play yet) and won't in F2P unless it's enjoyable to do so; I'll give it a shot and if I spend a few CPU cycles :D and don't get much further than the character creator, I'll have made a fair trade.

     

     

    Be seeing you.

  • BleakmageBleakmage Plattsburgh, NYPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    Not that I hate the game, it wasnt for me...buuut...anyone notice the game doesn't seem to have any hardcore defenders on this site anymore?

     

    Probably got sick of all the hate.

  • BleakmageBleakmage Plattsburgh, NYPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by uohaloran

    F2P isn't the future for all games in the west.  It's for games that have very little future.

     

    See what I mean about hate?

  • GoldknyghtGoldknyght Dallas, TXPosts: 1,526Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gkarr
    [mod edit]

    yeah till your toon gets wiped. seeing as they still in alpha.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by Bleakmage
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    Not that I hate the game, it wasnt for me...buuut...anyone notice the game doesn't seem to have any hardcore defenders on this site anymore?

     

    Probably got sick of all the hate.

     

    Well Fendel84M apparently there's still one on this site. I looked back at some of the early posts about this game, it's amazing the number of "deleted users" that were all starry eyed about this games future that no longer exist. kinda makes you wonder about those rumors about hired forum marketing posters don't it?

  • ronpackronpack North Charleston, SCPosts: 138Member
    Originally posted by bubaluba
    [mod edit]

    I agree. Not to mention Planetside 2 is coming and F2P. 2012 is a good year!

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    I really do not wish to rant or what, but I seriously doubt this move will be the miracle turn EA hopes. I rather expect it will be the end of the "F2P is the saviour" ideology. SWTOR now is in the shadow of GW2 and even Pandaria, and who then will care of SWTOR? Even F2P is no guarantee that things get better. It's a bit  two edged sword, it may get more players early, but as I experienced with LOTRO and DCU, it also drags down the quality of players.

    The best way for SWTOR would have been to can the game and work on a relaunch in a year or so.

     

    But as so often, one bad deed begets another...

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • LangsdorffLangsdorff Raleigh, NCPosts: 29Member

    Well, I for one think if they listened to all the players on what would "work" to keep it alive they wouldn't geet much done. Look at launch, how many subs did they have? If all of them had an ide how to make the game better, which would be done? They had a game and a vision for the game, if they took all the suggestions, then it would be your vision, not theirs, yet you whine because it's going "f2p savior mode". I thinkk they will get more subs for having a f2p conversion, with free having limits, which is where they want to go with it.

    I don't play anything just coming out. I get bored easily and most of the titles bore me, even EQ2 but that one's the best other than SWTOR.

    Langsdorff

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member
    Originally posted by Dalmont

    F2P i guess is the model for crap. Real games are subscription :P

     Not all F2P games are crap, just like not all P2P games are good.

    imageimage
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