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POE's one dealbreaker for me : no full respecs of your passive tree

2

Comments

  • StekkyStekky Stockbridge, GAPosts: 36Member

    I have several orbs of regret already.   They aren't THAT hard to come by to be honest and are a tradable item.     If you are serious about a full respec it is possible.      

     

    I don't get why people have such a difficult time making decisions that have some level of permanance to them.     That's half the fun in these games.      

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    You mean a game exists on market in this day and age that requires you to plan ahead?  Oh the horror!

    Where do I sign up!?

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • CitalkayCitalkay GlasgowPosts: 141Member

    Originally posted by dave6660

    You mean a game exists on market in this day and age that requires you to plan ahead?  Oh the horror!

    Where do I sign up!?

    +1

  • StizzledStizzled Springfield, MOPosts: 1,264Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by dave6660

    You mean a game exists on market in this day and age that requires you to plan ahead?  Oh the horror!

    Where do I sign up!?

    You can plan ahead all you want, it doesn't help if you have no idea what is going to be viable and what is not. I can tell you right now that you can completely screw your character within the first few levels. If every build were viable in the higher difficulties then no one would care.

     

    It's no fun when you hit the third difficulty, and your already level 50, to find out that you have messed up big time and your only choice to fix it is to reroll. The orbs and the few points you get from quests are just not good enough, often you realize that you messed up early on, and the passives you need to replace are nested behind 20 other passives. Or, other times you may find out that what you wanted to do works better with another class. The average person would wind up having to reroll four to five times just to figure out a way to make what they wanted to do viable. And that's just for one spec, let's say a ranged spec with a bow, that's not even taking into account having a 2-hander, caster, sword & board, etc. How many people are going to stick around for that?

     

    All the current system does is promote the use of FotM builds even more. People will use whatever builds the 'hardcore' come up with because they know it will work, and they won't have to put any brain power into it. At least if we could get a few respecs per character, and I'm talking like one per difficulty, then you wouldn't have to reroll as much. Then the average player might not be so discouraged from trying to find their own way or even completely change up the way they play.

     

    Their best option is to just give in and give us a few respecs per character. I'm sure they're banking on respecs being a big seller in the cash shop, but I have to wonder how many people will actually pay? Oh sure, the 'hardcore' figuring out the FotM specs will, but everyone else will either use a FotM build or just stop playing.


  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Unreal024

    Originally posted by dave6660

    You mean a game exists on market in this day and age that requires you to plan ahead?  Oh the horror!

    Where do I sign up!?

    You can plan ahead all you want, it doesn't help if you have no idea what is going to be viable and what is not. I can tell you right now that you can completely screw your character within the first few levels. If every build were viable in the higher difficulties then no one would care.

     

    It's no fun when you hit the third difficulty, and your already level 50, to find out that you have messed up big time and your only choice to fix it is to reroll. The orbs and the few points you get from quests are just not good enough, often you realize that you messed up early on, and the passives you need to replace are nested behind 20 other passives. Or, other times you may find out that what you wanted to do works better with another class. The average person would wind up having to reroll four to five times just to figure out a way to make what they wanted to do viable. And that's just for one spec, let's say a ranged spec with a bow, that's not even taking into account having a 2-hander, caster, sword & board, etc. How many people are going to stick around for that?

     

    All the current system does is promote the use of FotM builds even more. People will use whatever builds the 'hardcore' come up with because they know it will work, and they won't have to put any brain power into it. At least if we could get a few respecs per character, and I'm talking like one per difficulty, then you wouldn't have to reroll as much. Then the average player might not be so discouraged from trying to find their own way or even completely change up the way they play.

     

    Their best option is to just give in and give us a few respecs per character. I'm sure they're banking on respecs being a big seller in the cash shop, but I have to wonder how many people will actually pay? Oh sure, the 'hardcore' figuring out the FotM specs will, but everyone else will either use a FotM build or just stop playing.

    In games like this I know when I start that my first character is pretty much a throw away character.  I use him to learn the ropes, see what works and what does not and also to see if I like the class.  I never ever follow FOTM anything so I'm not concerned with what "hardcore" players do.  I'm in no rush to beat the game or hit max level so starting over doesn't bother me.

    In the end they probably will give players a full respec, through a cash shop.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • stayBlindstayBlind Suwannee, GAPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer
    Originally posted by Aori
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

     

     

    3) Considering it's a F2P game, selling a respec for a few dollars would be fine as well.

     

     

     

    Bingo, you figured out their plan :p

    That would be my guess as well. I was actually enjoying my time in PoE, but I found the passive skill tree to be a major cluster-fuck, and unnecessarily complex. It's not the amount of skills there to choose from, and the amount of customization, but the placement and difficulty in keeping track of your intended path and available skills. It looks like they took the Final Fantasy 10 system and sort of ran with it. 

    I'm all for complexity, but with something that extreme, you need to give people a way to fix the mistakes they are absolutely, 100% bound to make eventually. I don't mind them selling it, but if its overpriced, that's going to look like the system was made purposely complex in order to trip people up. Hopefully the game developes enough of an audience that some kind, able soul will make a skill calculator.

    Part of being a good player will be knowing how to build a character.

    So you want them to make the game easier for you because you aren't a good player?

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • SenanSenan Tuscaloosa, ALPosts: 783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dave6660

    You mean a game exists on market in this day and age that requires you to plan ahead?  Oh the horror!

    Where do I sign up!?

    My thoughts exactly. And it's not like you can't eventualy fully respec yourself, if need be - it just takes time. 

    Patience is certainly a dwindling virtue these days, it seems.

    image
  • DilweedDilweed EindhovenPosts: 222Member

    Whoops, didn't see this topic was necro'ed

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member

    A few things:

    1. By the time I was half way done my 2nd playthrough (not even close to max level btw), I had banked around 5-6 respec points and another 3-4 respec orbs. That's about 10 points I could reallocate, which is pretty huge since I only needed to make 1 or 2 changes at that point.
    2. The devs on the beta boards have stated they may revisit some of the respec design, but don't want to change it too much since redesigning a character shouldn't be something that can be done every time you feel like it.
     

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • newbihacknewbihack Olympia, WAPosts: 36Member

    http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/

    checking it right now too because I am building summoner witch.

  • Derza10Derza10 Grand Prairie, TXPosts: 70Member

    I think they should leave it how it is... I don't think it would be right to let people say... play as a melee 2 hander for the first 30 levels then because they are having trouble (or only did 2 hander because it was faster to level that way up to that point) do a full respec and switch to say bow, spells or sword and board... Completely changing the characters identity. I think if you are building for end game you should have to work threw the good and hard times of each build...  and not be able to switch to whatever build is best for the difficulty or situation you are currently in.

  • ZezdaZezda Posts: 685Member Uncommon

    This game is not aimed at the casual market. It is not aimed at people that want options to reset mistakes they made because they lacked either knowledge on mechanics or the ability to plan. It sucks when you are making characters and mess it up, but honestly you can get back to level 50 inside a day if you work at it.

    I'm don't mean to be rude but I thought it was pretty obvious that this game was intended for those who like the d2 style of game and were looking for something of an evolution from that. Giving people a complete respec does away with the need for multiple characters and having it like it is currently means that builds actually require effort rather than copy/pasting some dudes build from a forum somewhere. If you had looked in the class forums at all you will see that you never see two different people link the same build. Everyone plays differently and all those little nodes that give 2% here or there are there so people can have that freedom.

    ARPG's are different from MMORPG's. While you can invest a large amount of time into your characters the actual bulk of that comes from the very late levels as they take significantly longer to go through and obtain good end-game gear for. The stuff leading up to the last 20% of the levels tends to go very quickly. Getting a new character up to 50 or even 60 isn't even difficult even on hardcore and it is not nearly as time consuming as you think, especially when you have a full stash of stuff to aid you with your leveling. To put it into perspective there are guys on the hardcore ladder race that is currenty due to end in a few days that managed to hit lvl 50+ in a single day and after ~24 hours played had hit level 60-65. Considering now that some of them have been playing for over 100 hours now and only just passing the level 70 mark it shows how easy it is to get a new character 'back up there' in terms of your skillpoints.

    The problem with implementing any sort of full respec outside of a button that lets you do it whenever you like is that by the time you grind for it you would have been just as well making a new character and giving it all the gear you had. If you were such a high level that this became an issue then I need to question why you kept leveling a character that you weren't happy with in the first place.

  • lakrozlakroz toronto, ONPosts: 21Member

    Not sure if its mentioned but you do get respec points.... through a couple quests and a currency item that you can get an infinite number of.

     

    So yes you can FULLY respec your char, you just need about 111 of a certain currency item (orb of regret) to do it, this is assuming you have went through all difficulties and are level 100, otherwise its less. So there are respecs in the game guys, it just not easily attainable, you have to work for it....  Boo fucking hoo, it encourages you to THINK ahead about making your character, i know some people dont like doing such things. 

     

    Honestly if this keep away whiny idiots and kids then so be it.

     

     

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member
    Originally posted by Aori
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    Originally posted by Aori
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    This game has 100 levels with a very in depth passive skill tree.  Occasionally a quest will give you a free respec point for one skill and there are rare orbs of regret that will do the same thing.

     

    Both Blizzard and the developers of Titan Quest realized what a horrible design decision it was to force people to reroll if they didn't like their build.  It's not an issue in Torchlight as mods are quickly released to address such a horrible design decision.  The only reason it was tolerable in D2, before they added full respecs for a minor grind, was that you could rush new characters to Baal hell within a day or two. 

     

    This is the only dealbreaker for me in POE. If I level a marauder to 90 and decide that I don't like my current sword and board build, why on earth should I have to create a brand new character?  I see no positives, other than having to really think out your build ahead of time and avoiding flavor of the month rebuilding. 

     

    I'd suggest:

     

    1) Offer one full respec per difficulty level completed

    2) decent grind to earn a full respec if you run out from #1

    3) Considering it's a F2P game, selling a respec for a few dollars would be fine as well.

     

     

     

    Bingo, you figured out their plan :p

    Has that been announced?

    Not at all, but how else do you think they're going to keep the game going? They don't have the resources to maintain a persistance server let alone with no box sales.

    They're going to offer something to help reduce the grind, something close to P2W but arguably not. Because we sure as hell know it won't be aesthetics in their cash shop.

    Have you done any research into PoE at all? 

    Cash shop will include:

    Cosmetic armor skins

    Cosmentic Spell alternatives

    Stash slots

    Character slots

    Gender swap

    ticket to create a Guild

    ticket to create a custom league

    Premium stash tabs that let you name and color tabs

    Dyes

    Vanity Pets

     

    This is how they will make money.

    They will not sell power, Selling orbs of regret or respec orbs would destroy the main reason to play PoE

    Re-leveling new builds.

    The entire game is built around that, From trying out a new variation of your build to finding a unique and building a class around it. 

     

     

     

     

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • FonclFoncl UppsalaPosts: 197Member
    I like that there are only limited respeccs, it promotes planning ahead as well as building new characters based on past experiences. You just have to accept that you are very likely going to regret some or many of the choices you make in the passive skill tree, it's part of the experience. A game where you don't regret any choices is a game where you aren't facing any tough decisions.
  • VendettaDFAVendettaDFA Pleasant Hill, MOPosts: 72Member
    Totally fine with limited respec. Not everyone enjoys playing D3 as much as the OP and this is a refreshing change of direction in the ARPG genre. The game leans toward careful planning of your character and allows you enough direction in the specs to build to suit your playstyle. The final build is no longer one or two cookie cutters per class that completely shun 80% of the skill trees in D3 that are just there for filler, but a build made of strengths of the players style to help him enjoy the game. Its a more involved skill tree in a game that feels more hardcore than other genre options and it needs to stay the course. Grinding Gear Games has it right - not everyone wants a diablo clone.
  • kjempffkjempff AarhusPosts: 883Member Uncommon

    They will scare off some players, and even though they offically state they will be niche, and don't understand why they want to seek the niche on this particular point. A new player will be completely overwhelmed by the massive skill tree, combined with all the possibilities they find out later in the game, my guess is the first 3-5 characters will be learning-what-I-should-have-done chars (atleast it was for me); after that you have already burned the first 50 hours in the game and now you have to roll >>real characters<<. Personally that just makes me more curious and try again, but for other more sane players that would be really annoying.

     

    I really can't see why buying respec scrolls from an item shop is viewed as a power item, and I am fiercly against pay2win. Sure you can make your bow witch into a cold witch without levelling a new one, but then you wont have your bow witch anymore.

    Also, even though respec scrolls are rare right now, doesn't mean it will be like that forever. Although they can be kindda we-know-best about stuff :P

     

     

  • woodyflywoodyfly las vegas, NVPosts: 60Member
    I absolutely am against full respecs, it's just not balanced. There are builds that are really weak early game and strong late game and requires a lot of good gear to pull off but it's not practical to play it as a first character. Everybody would roll to the strongest build once they hit end game and get the equips ready.
  • minttunatorminttunator ViimsiPosts: 131Member
    Originally posted by VendettaDFA
    Totally fine with limited respec. Not everyone enjoys playing D3 as much as the OP and this is a refreshing change of direction in the ARPG genre. The game leans toward careful planning of your character and allows you enough direction in the specs to build to suit your playstyle. The final build is no longer one or two cookie cutters per class that completely shun 80% of the skill trees in D3 that are just there for filler, but a build made of strengths of the players style to help him enjoy the game. Its a more involved skill tree in a game that feels more hardcore than other genre options and it needs to stay the course. Grinding Gear Games has it right - not everyone wants a diablo clone.

    Or, to be more specific, not everyone wants a Diablo 3 clone. The biggest inspiration for PoE was D2 which also didn't have respec. :)

  • kjempffkjempff AarhusPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by minttunator
    Originally posted by VendettaDFA
    Totally fine with limited respec. Not everyone enjoys playing D3 as much as the OP and this is a refreshing change of direction in the ARPG genre. The game leans toward careful planning of your character and allows you enough direction in the specs to build to suit your playstyle. The final build is no longer one or two cookie cutters per class that completely shun 80% of the skill trees in D3 that are just there for filler, but a build made of strengths of the players style to help him enjoy the game. Its a more involved skill tree in a game that feels more hardcore than other genre options and it needs to stay the course. Grinding Gear Games has it right - not everyone wants a diablo clone.

    Or, to be more specific, not everyone wants a Diablo 3 clone. The biggest inspiration for PoE was D2 which also didn't have respec. :)

    Ah but D2 has had full respec since ?1.10?, and that didn't do anything bad for the game, it just made it more fun.

  • newbihacknewbihack Olympia, WAPosts: 36Member
    rofl on you ppl it not a skill tree, it is passive skill tree. get your facts right ffs and try to understand it is not like D2 or D3.
  • devotion8133devotion8133 marietta, GAPosts: 1Member
    just hoping the devs keep to their ideas and make respec'ing limited, love it in the old d2, hell its is what made me play it for so long, tired of people having the ability to jump in a game and mess up and be able to fix it right away, hell no, reroll your chr, learn from your mistakes and do it right. [mod edit]
  • Nefarii66Nefarii66 glendale, AZPosts: 1Member
    I have an idea dont be garbage at games, research builds and use your brain maybe, and a full respec shouldn't be an issue. I would start with concentrating on the not being garbage at games part first and invest alot of time in that skill foremost.
  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAPosts: 1,516Member Uncommon

    you can plan your char and save it on the calculator

    also you can level up just fine without spending your passive points, until you decide the spec you like and spend deeply into it

     

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    I'm not sure why this thread was necrod but I plan on giving POE one last try.  I got bored really fast the first two beta weekends I tried.  I'll wait until I'm in the right mindset to give it a third shot.  The art design and combat was boring but I'll try to go into it with lowered expectations.

     

    As far as respecs go.  Well most people didn't mind in D2 because it was so easy to power level to 80 in that game.  I understand both sides of the coin, but I didn't really enjoy the low level combat of POE and couldn't imagine rerolling in order to min/max the characters.  As far as making builds that stink at low levels but own at high levels, that's really only an issue for hardcore characters.  It's also an artifact of poor class design.

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