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Originally posted by jawali Hello, I am currently looking for some nice mmo. I already played Rift but only for a while, and haven't pvped. My question is: how is the pvp on pvp servers? Is it worth to play this game for pvp?
i dont like turning ppl off to this game...but pvp in this game isnt all that great...but the pve is great
Originally posted by jawali but is the pvp in your opinion medicore or just total crap?
Its certainly favors casters, but feels like more like a grind than actual pvp. If you can get a friend or two to pvp with you, its a bit more fun, but overall it just feels like a rank/favor/gear grind for when youre not level/mark/gear grinding dungeons.
I've checked out the PvP a bit while leveling. I have a 21 warrior but I'm focusing on a PvE tank build, so I'm not going into the warzones expecting to be "teh uberz". Not to mention that in the low level brackets your build doesn't matter too much anyway, and I don't PvP enough (yet) to be bothered to setup a PvP build.
Other than that, it's been pretty fun, I've run about 6 warzones (Black Garden and Libray, and I just unlocked access to the Codex). Despite feeling burned by SWTOR, during the 4 months I played that game, dare I say I found the PvP more enjoyable than in Rift so far. But, I'm not playing Rift primarily for PvP and I'm having a blast playing the PvE content.
Originally posted by Donotexist RIFT pvp is all about the GEAR. Skill plays a very small part, at least till you reach maximum rank (50), with full maximum tier gear(this includes a full set of tier 3 armour, weapons, trinket, etc.) Depending on how much time you have to play, it can take a few months to get this (one poster on RIFT forums said 40-50 days playing about 4-5 hours per day). The next issue is class imbalance. Rogues are very overpowered, clerics are cannon fodder for all other classes, warriors are great for melee but have 10 meter less range on attacks than othe classes, so can get burned pretty bad before closing the gap, mages can be good or bad. Lastly - there are only a few viable builds for each class in pvp. So while there seems to a lot of options with the soul system, the reality is that each class has about 2 or three builds that work in pvp. If you play something else, you will be cannon fodder. I stopped playing RIFT because the gear grind was so monotenous (only 5 war fronts), there is no ranked matches (they scrapped that as the pvp players mostly left, so you can get stomped by a max rank player while you are very low level), and the latest addition to pvp (Conquest) turned into an essentially pve instance. If you like PVP, this might not be the best game
You are wrong in so many ways. I will not debate each one of them because I'll have to write a whole novel and that tends to be boring (you'd be surprised to know how fast teenagers get bored these days!).
But what I can advise you is first get through the whole game, in this case Rift, play it to end game where you get to have the best gear you can get and get to face people having a similary equipped character and then feel free to submit your feedback about Rift's PvP and how good it is, because at this moment you have little to no idea about end game PvP in Rift.
PvP / Warfronts before level 50 is a blast and I had a great time doing it, but when I hit 50 and went to a Warfront I was dead most of the time, instantly killed by higher rank players. Been close to 8 months since I stopped playing but I recall I went up to Rank 4 in just one weekend and then turned away from the pvp and went full pve, just didnt see the point in getting oneshot by older players again and again just to try to gain higher rank so I could do the same to newer players. This was before they changed the pvp sets and Valor or what ever it was, so it could be more fun now.
The game is mostly PvE and does a damn fine job at that and only reason I quit was me getting older and not wanting to play a slightly better version of WoW
But what the heck, after trying dozens of other games which all lacked severly in some way, I think I will try Rift again until Guild Wars 2 comes out. I just fear that if GW2 wont give me a buzz I will take a really long break from gaming, until something majestic comes that turns the gaming world upside down in awe.
Originally posted by Donotexist @Sidaar - well, actually I have played RIFT end-game PVP. I am rank 32 cleric on Seastone (PVP server). I have grinded out 3 full sets of pvp gear, and essences, etc. via Conquest. If you like a gear-progression game, RIFT is for you. If you like competitive pvp, on the other hand, RIFT will disappoint. For reference, simply go to the RIFT forums, and see how many threads there are related to the gear grind and lack of properly ranked warfronts, class imbalances and issues with Conquest. So, maybe you should play the game yourself prior to making such loose statements. Makes you appear silly to make accusations without verifying someone's level of knowledge of a game. If you a a teenager, no problem dude, I forgive you, I was once young and silly too
1. I'm sorry, but did you just say you "grinded" your gear and got to rank 32 via Conquest? If you call getting rank 32 and 3 armor sets via Conquest a grind then you obviously have no idea what a) grinding means and b) getting rank 8/40 and full pvp set w/o Conquest means. How many days did it took you to get all those, 4 days or something?
2. Rank 32 is far from being end game pvp. Especially nowadays when it can be achieved so fast thanks to Conquest. At least in the past, someone who was r32 out of 40 ranks or lets say ... r5/6 out of 8, it meant something. You knew that the player had to spend enough time to understand their class, experiment what soul combination is good and which one is bad and finally manage to pull the best out of their character. Today? Pff... go spam aoe on the enemies (if you're dps) or heals on your raid while staying behind them in Conquest and voila, high rank and high pvp armor sets in no time. Where's the PvP skill in that? Once you go to a WF and start applying the same "technique" you're dead within seconds because you got no idea how to use your character.
3. Regarding the gear-progression statement, what you're trying to say is if you like working for your gear, Rift is the game. If you like having everything handed to you, you should look for something else, right? Well, Trion is working on satisfying this kind of requests coming from their customers, hence Conquest, and they give you now the chance to get your uber gear in no time, along with your ranks, but there's one thing they will not give you - knowledge. Everyone knows that every player who got from rank 1 to 50 via Conquest represent nothing more than an easy target.
4. Quote from Rift forums
"phew phew phew fan out ...which class isn't overpowered in pvp at all ? i think i saw most of em already rule no 1 in pvpall classes are overpowered expect urs.rule no 2if u lose its a balancing issue (100% sure on that)rule no 3if ur team lose the whole team sucks expect u or trion just made mistakes in the map design u have no chance to win.that how it works in pvp and never forget the whining,flaming,crying in chat makes u 25% stronger."
Quoted from a recent thread where someone was complaining w/o even some basic knowledge about the game over class imbalance (rogue marksman to be more precise). Most of those complaining about class imbalance have no idea what imbalance means and even less what OP means. Reading your previous post I noticed you labeled the rogue class as very OP. This has been a matter discussed over and over again and everyone can agree that it is more of a fashion complaining about rogues, rather than a real issue. Once again, everyone playing end game PvP knows how things are like. Every class has its own advantages and disadvantages. Everyone beside rogues and warriors is nothing more than a canon fodder? Funny... Warriors are disadvantaged by their low range or their ranged skills? Hm... AFAIK the range of a ranged skill for warrior is 20m just like for nightblade (rogue soul). How come 2 different souls have the same range, yet you state that just for one of them, the range is a disadvantage and is way lower than the range for the other classes? It is less than ranger/marksman's range, no doubt about it, but have you compared the damage done by a ranger or marksman vs the damage done by a warrior. Even with kiting, a warrior is still able to close the gap and then the target is dead in few seconds. The same story with the rest of the classes. It is no point in discussing every single one of them because you obviously have no idea what PvP in Rift means, hence the fact that you consider getting to rank 32 as playing at end game and come up with some mainstream view of class imbalance in Rift: rogues are OP, warriors are umm... hmm.. close to none, while the rest of the classes are just canon fodders for rogues and sometimes for warriors.
5. I am playing the game as I've done since 1 year ago and I am quite an avid forum reader. Not posting on it that often, but I definitely keep a close eye on the matters discussed there. As for making accusations w/o verifying someone's level of knowledge, don't worry, I am fully aware of how much knowledge you have about the game. Your own comments regarding the game express how much you know about the game.
It's a warrior zerg fest.
A word of advice, if you see a warrior carrying a shield, run away from him and don't look back, or better yet, just quit the warfront.
rift pvp is all about c/c and gear period ignore the post a few above says. Conquest was so bad at release that people camped spawn locations killing them before their computer could load the screen up. It took Trion awhile to fix it also . Conquest has changed like what 5 or 6 times now and they still cant figure out what they want to do.
Warfronts until 50 are not bad because twinks have been removed so you can actually pvp in equal settings but once you hit 50 you are cannon fodder until you get your pvp set on and enough pa abilites for vengence to actually do damage to any player with valor. Rift probably has one of the worst pvp systems currently on the market if you like skill based pvp and not gear based , but if you enjoy gear and /played being the contributing factor then Rift is fine.
three things you have to grind as soon as you can if you want to be good at pvp is your planar attunement putting all your points in vengence you can and valor , grinding your ranks so you can get a decent pvp weapon i think rank 14??? i cant remember its been awhile, then your 4 piece gear plus your secondary pvp only valor planar machine thing slotted with more valor. Also you have to get your c/c timer ability to its lowest in your PA pvp tree because there is TONS of c/c in rift far worse then any other game on the market.
@Donotexist - I'm rank 50. I've been rank 8 when that was the highest you could get, as well as rank 40 until 1.9 when they increased it and added Conquest. I don't take it personal, I just felt like a more elaborated comment was needed.
@cronius77 - investing your PA points in Vengeance and Valor from the PvP PA is a waste. At the end you will have 15 vengeance and 15 valor more. Investing your points in PvE PA is allot better. What is better 1 vengeance or 2 AP? Obviously 2 AP. To max out all 3 vengeance abilities from the PVP PA requires 2100 points (plus some additional ones to unlock them if needed), while the PvE AP abilities require 2250 points for 3 (plus additional points to unlock them if needed). At the end you get to compare 15 vengeace vs 24 AP. 15 vengeance = 1.5 dps, while 24 AP is 2.4 dps. You still believe investing those points in vengeance is worth it? Same story with valor. You spend 2100 points for 15 valor which is reducing the dmg in PvP for about 0.5% or so, when you can have even 1400 total valor (about 56% dmg reduction in PvP) only from armor and runes. Even if it adds up, when you just started getting PA levels, it's unwise to invest the points in something that even when you have tons of it, it won't matter.
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
Well, so you play RIFT.
How can you contest that it is a GEAR-progression MMO? Or are you saying, that is what you like?
Interesting comment btw about the PA - I have often wndered about some of the "perks" in the War PA that seemed useless (esp. the 2 pvp specific ones). Might see what respec would do there.
In reply to your earlier 'attack'
1. No, I did not say I "grinded" my way to 32 via Conquest. (I went the old fashioned way - WF and OWPVP. Painful at times. Especially on Seastone in low gear. They do love to gank and respawn camp there. I believe I gained 2 levels through Conquest. My Guild (Giascioch) decided not to participate in the flavorama that was 1.0. Conquest).
What I did mean is that you must do Conquest if you want the best lessers, and the trinket.
And yes, you can get faster favor and prestige, but mainly if you join the zergs - which btw is more fun than being a battery recharger.
2. End-game pvp is that which is played at end of game (i.e. level 50), when you can be competing with max ranked players. So, my statement is correct imo. There is a difference between END-game and MAX-rank, but since you have to compete in non-ranked WFs against max ranked characters, it is accurate to state it a I did (are you suggesting that you only play end-game once you have completed ID and PF, if you take the pve example?)
3. "Working for your gear" - this is probably my main issue. In pve, you need higher gear as the instances get harder, and the dps chacks get higher. But pve is REAL person against REAL person. There should be no gear differentiation. At least, not in my ideal game.
I accept that RIFT is not my ideal game.
I hold by my OP statements - I'm guessing you might be playing a rogue - all those yummy cc-abilities, while so immune to cc. And that 35 m range as MM, with 30 m for most other abilities. I should have rolled a rogue I guess. I play cleric, we are squeeshy, have lowest dps, our heals get nerfed over and over, our survivability has been nerfed.
But you are correct in one regard - on the forums every class makes those statements, or opposes those statements.
I'll try to be a shot as possible this time and I'll focus only on the last part of your comment. But not before adding few remarks concerning the stuff you pointed out in the rest of it.
Rift is a gear progression MMO when it comes about post Lv50 PvP. But the PvP ranks matter as well. And these are 2 of the things I like about Rift. Games than cater casual players when it comes about important matters such as PvP never interrested me. I've even seen some games where they were doing in for PvE as well, allowing players to have armor sets from instances they never been in. Luckly, Rift does it right... so far. As for the 3 matters you pointed out, for the first one all I got to say is that in your previous post you didn't mention anything about getting the gear through the WF, while getting only the essences and trinket via Conquest. Second point, I still believe it's worth calling it end game PvP/PvE when you actually get to the end of it, not half way through. As for the last point, as I already mentioned, I like things that you have to work for.
Now, concerning the class I play, I am indeed playing rogue, but not MM. MM might sound nice, hitting people from 10 miles away, some decent AoE skills (some consider them OP especially in Conquest), but it's too much kiting, running around like no tomorrow and stuff like that. While sooner or later they will still get to you and then you're dead in few seconds. Happened plenty of times to play around with a warrior and then an assassin came and stun locked me and boom dead. That's why I'm paying NB. It's a mixture between melee and range which is not as great as MM or ranger range, but I cannot complain about it. It has way better survivability than MM, Sab or Ranger while it actually does better single target damage than any other rogue soul. Assassin is all about burst damage while coming from stealth, MM is just range pew pew, ranger is ... a bit weid for PvP, sab is just mass carnage which I realized it starts to interest people more and more, riftstalker is probably the perfect surogate role, bard is annoyingly helpful for the raid (doh! support..) while bladedancer is a bit underestimated. It's a fun soul, still a bit of work to be done with it, but definitely not bad.
As for cleric, stack as much favor as you can, it will increase your survivability. Try to find a decent healing spec, something with aoe healing should be good although it kind of eats your mana. Dying as a healing cleric is normal. In PvP you're the first one to be targeted, ofc if the opponents are smart enough. As for DPS cleric... um... wouldn't recommmend it. I've seen every now and then someone running a dps build and getting some kb, doing some dps there but still to me it doesn't look like a viable solution.
You mentioned the armor sets - you can actually grind out a ID set of gear through expert dungeons btw. Might take a long time, but you certainly can.
PVP sets are the only ones you absolutely must earn through its intended way.
I would have liked the rank restriction for the weapons to be removed.
Currently Rift PVP is a gear grind, that can't be disputed. The problem is there are those who have done it and don't want to have their efforts and time deemed redundant and those who don't want to slog through months of not enjoying themselves to get there.
The light at the end of the tunnel for those who might want to try rift but are put off by the wearisome grind is that they are looking at normalising equipment in PVP so skill will be all that matters. While I think this is great, and it may send me back rifts way, it does seem to have the community divided. I'll wait and see what the outcome is; from Trions point of view they need to decide whats more important to them, a minority of players who believe they are "hardcore" because they have completed the grind and may leave because of this, or opening its gates to lots of new potential players who are more "casual" and get their enjoyment out of playing their game on an even playing field.
Either way for true PVPers its definitely a game to keep an eye on.
Originally posted by Sidaar Originally posted by Donotexist RIFT pvp is all about the GEAR. Skill plays a very small part, at least till you reach maximum rank (50), with full maximum tier gear(this includes a full set of tier 3 armour, weapons, trinket, etc.) Depending on how much time you have to play, it can take a few months to get this (one poster on RIFT forums said 40-50 days playing about 4-5 hours per day). The next issue is class imbalance. Rogues are very overpowered, clerics are cannon fodder for all other classes, warriors are great for melee but have 10 meter less range on attacks than othe classes, so can get burned pretty bad before closing the gap, mages can be good or bad. Lastly - there are only a few viable builds for each class in pvp. So while there seems to a lot of options with the soul system, the reality is that each class has about 2 or three builds that work in pvp. If you play something else, you will be cannon fodder. I stopped playing RIFT because the gear grind was so monotenous (only 5 war fronts), there is no ranked matches (they scrapped that as the pvp players mostly left, so you can get stomped by a max rank player while you are very low level), and the latest addition to pvp (Conquest) turned into an essentially pve instance. If you like PVP, this might not be the best game
Well i do have an idea as i have a lvl 50 and full gear and what he said is dead right your the one is wrong .