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What the hell just happened?!

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  • cyress8cyress8 Croatia, VTPosts: 832Member


    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    Originally posted by gestalt11

    Originally posted by demoplay

    Originally posted by Cyflym

    Originally posted by Myrdynn I for once am so glad I didnt rush to cap, luckily for me I really have no time to play much, maybe 10 hrs a week, and absolutely enjoy every aspect (save crafting) so far.  I am only about 80% thru Savage Coast 1 month in, so maybe for a casual player this is a perfect game to dive into  
    Does slow reading make books better too? How does the game quality increase by playing less? To me your statement sounds like "It's awesome that i have little time to play that way i can pay the sub longer"      
    Exactly! Slow reading DOES make book better. You live through story sentence by sentence, page by page. This is big trial and drama what exactly is happening to mmo genre right now - consumerized and casualised gameplay. / sorry for double post.
    It makes a bad book worse.  There are alot of mediocre fantasy books I wouldn't have made it through without a bit of smart paragraph skipping.
    I bought a lifetime membership, I dont consider this a mediocre book, the story I am following has me more enthralled then any book I have ever read.  Im in no rush, I know some of you are, personally I used to be that way, RIFT I was in the group that grinded straight to 50 in the first weekend, had tons and tons of world firsts, then what.  I really like MMO's, but I was getting so burned out.  I decided I would cut back, limit myself.  I bought the lifetime sub so I wouldnt feel the need to race thru content as fast as possible.  And guess what...the most important thing, I am enjoying myself.
     

    For some odd reason, why do you guys think we rushed through the content? I actually took my time, watched every cutscene because the story was pretty good, and I was still able to finish up all the missions and kill the gatekeeper to do nightmare dungeons right before BWE3 for GW2. Please stop making assumptions. The main reason I was able to move through content so fast was because I actually played the game like an mmo and grouped with friends and random people all the time. Even for the investigation missions. ( Probably the best time I had playing the game. Getting multiple people together trying to solve a mystery is fun as hell and different from the norm. )

    BOOYAKA!

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by P4YB4CK
    Originally posted by GrumpyCharr

    What happened? You got THEMEPUNK'D.

    This is normal for the typical sub-based AAA mmo launch.  This is why subs are going away, people need permission to play more than one game at a time to feed the need for content.

    [mod edit]

    I don't have to wait for new content, the great thing is that I don't have to pay 15 bucks for a game that I'd like to take a break from to try something else...welcome to the new world of MMO's where you don't have to pay monthly for each one you want to play.  NO game can pump out enough content to keep users busy for years on end ... not even the mighty WoW (which is bleeding subs like crazy at the moment).

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by Digna
    Another aspect that they counted on (TSW) was re-playability. It's not there, at least for me. It might be ok to go in and tinker a bit but once you've done the quests a few times (at least through Egypt for me between release and beta) the idea of a new character is tiresome.

    This is one thing im surprised FC didn't realise with their skill system, there is no point rolling an alt and there is no replay value in the lower zones at all. Try the lower tiers, they are very quiet now. I keep going back to DW to try and get a group for the normal mode as i skipped it while levelling, very hard to find a group. even as a highly geared QL10.

    After you go back and rampage through the elite areas the zone is done.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wighty

    If you asked me a week or so ago I would be telling how amazing and imersive this game is and how it seemed to have such limitless possibilities. Brilliant story lines, incredible character development, and a completely new genre breaking away from the endless "80% fantasy 20% Sci fi" games out there.

     

    About a week ago I completed the full storyline and I thought to myself that was great! but at the same time I wanted more. I started running through Transylvania again, this time kinda rushing through the quests and finding a few new side missions along the way.

     

    Now after my third play through of Transylvania I am like "what now". It is as if this game fell right off a cliff for me. I patiently awaited the 1.1 content patch and chewed through that content like another morphine injection only to be back at the bottom of this cliff... 

     

    So now I start looking for other things to do... Instances? PvP? I thought to myself let me try the other aspects of the game only to reveal what was such a rich exciting game reduced to a (pick your) token grind fest... So now you really have no choice but to dedicate countless hours upon hours doing nothing but either PvP and/or instance running to get your tokens to buy your gear only to need more tokens to then upgrade the gear!

     

    But wait don't you get decent gear along the way? Well yes and no... So you did all your instances on Expert level pretty much have a versatile set of Blues at this point... Now it's time for nightmare... /LFG "you need to be this spec", "your AR/HR (attack or heal rating) is to low" and all the usual elitist bullshit. Ok, so now you finally found a group and your off to do some nightmare only to find out that that nice epic drop you just got is not upgradable! See once you have all QL10 gear you are not done, Token gear can be upgraded to 10.3 (PvP) and 10.4 (PvE) and when you look at Token cost vs gear/upgrade kits (single use) you know you are in for some long ass grind.

     

    The same is true with PvP... Do your battle grounds or Fusang Capture facility quest and let your tokens trickle in only to get 7-10 a clip only to find out you need 1000's of tokens to gear up.

     

    Game companies wonder why they lose subs after 1-2 months. Man, I really enjoy this game and I am hoping for some staying power with regular updates but this sudden change in gameplay has really got me down.

    So what do you want them to do?

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Wighty

    If you asked me a week or so ago I would be telling how amazing and imersive this game is and how it seemed to have such limitless possibilities. Brilliant story lines, incredible character development, and a completely new genre breaking away from the endless "80% fantasy 20% Sci fi" games out there.

    About a week ago I completed the full storyline and I thought to myself that was great! but at the same time I wanted more. I started running through Transylvania again, this time kinda rushing through the quests and finding a few new side missions along the way.

    Now after my third play through of Transylvania I am like "what now". It is as if this game fell right off a cliff for me. I patiently awaited the 1.1 content patch and chewed through that content like another morphine injection only to be back at the bottom of this cliff... 

    So now I start looking for other things to do... Instances? PvP? I thought to myself let me try the other aspects of the game only to reveal what was such a rich exciting game reduced to a (pick your) token grind fest... So now you really have no choice but to dedicate countless hours upon hours doing nothing but either PvP and/or instance running to get your tokens to buy your gear only to need more tokens to then upgrade the gear!

    But wait don't you get decent gear along the way? Well yes and no... So you did all your instances on Expert level pretty much have a versatile set of Blues at this point... Now it's time for nightmare... /LFG "you need to be this spec", "your AR/HR (attack or heal rating) is to low" and all the usual elitist bullshit. Ok, so now you finally found a group and your off to do some nightmare only to find out that that nice epic drop you just got is not upgradable! See once you have all QL10 gear you are not done, Token gear can be upgraded to 10.3 (PvP) and 10.4 (PvE) and when you look at Token cost vs gear/upgrade kits (single use) you know you are in for some long ass grind.

    The same is true with PvP... Do your battle grounds or Fusang Capture facility quest and let your tokens trickle in only to get 7-10 a clip only to find out you need 1000's of tokens to gear up.

    Game companies wonder why they lose subs after 1-2 months. Man, I really enjoy this game and I am hoping for some staying power with regular updates but this sudden change in gameplay has really got me down.

    And this, not to your specifically Wighty - but to all the TSW fans out there...

    Is why we have been saying "I told you so."

    Or me personally, I've been saying:

    "Lipstick on a pig. Same pig, new lipstick."

    The fundamental design of this type of themepark is content consumtion - which is finite, followed by grind for stats.

    EQ, WoW, WAR, AoC, Rift, TOR, TERA, TSW.... list goes on and on and on.

    Same pig, new lipstick.

  • sammandarsammandar San Antonio, TXPosts: 523Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    And this, not to your specifically Wighty - but to all the TSW fans out there...

    Is why we have been saying "I told you so."

    Or me personally, I've been saying:

    "Lipstick on a pig. Same pig, new lipstick."

    The fundamental design of this type of themepark is content consumtion - which is finite, followed by grind for stats.

    EQ, WoW, WAR, AoC, Rift, TOR, TERA, TSW.... list goes on and on and on.

    Same pig, new lipstick.

    Agreed. Which is why I believe TSW will experience a decline in subs within the first year since release.

  • AthisioAthisio spring, PAPosts: 72Member
    I think its because MMO's have become much more linear and more like a console game. Once your complete move on to something else. The days of a game giving you Alot to do via varied start area's for races or harder mobs and dungeons is over. The age of accessability is now and it has a cost.
  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,557Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tank017
    That's theme parks for ya.they all last about a month out of the gate until they start running out of content.Then you must wait for content updates and xpacks.

    Yeah what else did you expect OP?  Themeparks are extremely limited, this just in...

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Wighty

    If you asked me a week or so ago I would be telling how amazing and imersive this game is and how it seemed to have such limitless possibilities. Brilliant story lines, incredible character development, and a completely new genre breaking away from the endless "80% fantasy 20% Sci fi" games out there.

    About a week ago I completed the full storyline and I thought to myself that was great! but at the same time I wanted more. I started running through Transylvania again, this time kinda rushing through the quests and finding a few new side missions along the way.

    Now after my third play through of Transylvania I am like "what now". It is as if this game fell right off a cliff for me. I patiently awaited the 1.1 content patch and chewed through that content like another morphine injection only to be back at the bottom of this cliff... 

    So now I start looking for other things to do... Instances? PvP? I thought to myself let me try the other aspects of the game only to reveal what was such a rich exciting game reduced to a (pick your) token grind fest... So now you really have no choice but to dedicate countless hours upon hours doing nothing but either PvP and/or instance running to get your tokens to buy your gear only to need more tokens to then upgrade the gear!

    But wait don't you get decent gear along the way? Well yes and no... So you did all your instances on Expert level pretty much have a versatile set of Blues at this point... Now it's time for nightmare... /LFG "you need to be this spec", "your AR/HR (attack or heal rating) is to low" and all the usual elitist bullshit. Ok, so now you finally found a group and your off to do some nightmare only to find out that that nice epic drop you just got is not upgradable! See once you have all QL10 gear you are not done, Token gear can be upgraded to 10.3 (PvP) and 10.4 (PvE) and when you look at Token cost vs gear/upgrade kits (single use) you know you are in for some long ass grind.

    The same is true with PvP... Do your battle grounds or Fusang Capture facility quest and let your tokens trickle in only to get 7-10 a clip only to find out you need 1000's of tokens to gear up.

    Game companies wonder why they lose subs after 1-2 months. Man, I really enjoy this game and I am hoping for some staying power with regular updates but this sudden change in gameplay has really got me down.

    And this, not to your specifically Wighty - but to all the TSW fans out there...

    Is why we have been saying "I told you so."

    Or me personally, I've been saying:

    "Lipstick on a pig. Same pig, new lipstick."

    The fundamental design of this type of themepark is content consumtion - which is finite, followed by grind for stats.

    EQ, WoW, WAR, AoC, Rift, TOR, TERA, TSW.... list goes on and on and on.

    Same pig, new lipstick.

    Agreed, all themeparks have the same limitation: "content cannot be created faster than players can consume it".

    Even SOE's Smedley said as much in his recent Reddit Q&A.

     

    Back in the dark ages of MMO's, content lasted longer because leveling was much slower. Modern MMO's took the grind out of leveling and moved it all to "endgame".

     

    This "content" problem is not unique to TSW. Those that don't PVP will hit the same wall in GW2, or any other pure themepark in the future.

  • LockthileLockthile OsloPosts: 11Member

    I think this will always be an issue for really active players(hardcore gamers) and that you will always end up being losers in this duel. You represent minority of the players. Yes, the developers do take your issues/problems/suggestions into account, but there is no chance they are able to keep up with your demands.

    The companies are always looking for a profit. When they make these games they do not expect 100% retention on their products. They stick to the median, where the majority of the players are. 

    Tough luck.

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    Again with the "I spent a month of hard gaming and now I completed all the content, and feel let down.". I guess it is better than console games.

    What is mostly backwards about this approach to gaming, is the hate against sandbox games. Always with the "Not enough content" hate, but never any love for the solution.

    For me TSW is GREAT. Why? simple I don't have but 2-3 hours a day I can play. It is too hot in the afternoon for weeks now, and well..there is my child, wife and dog...and all the everyday things adults get sucked into doing that we call RL. So I have content for weeks to come.

    I could list several things that could be done to extend your gameplay, but I don't feel that is my responsibility. I quit playing console games because of lack of content. Maybe it is time to have that convo with one's self and determine if MMOing is something one really wants to do.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Wow wth was that about? Edited for double post.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • FraugnutzFraugnutz Colorado Springs, COPosts: 69Member
    Hrrrrmm,  I still have tons of content to play through...How could this be? Perhaps its because I have other hobbies that occupy my time. Perhaps its because I have a family which also demands a certain amount of my attention. FFS, people tear through content -spending what must be an obscene amount of time in front of a computer screen- then start crying because they have exhausted all there is too do. You know what? The simple fact that I still have a lot of content to complete , that I have not yet been jaded by the "limited content" makes whatever point youre trying to make here entirely moot  and without merit to me , or anyone else, who takes their time or has other shit to do besides play a video game. I will wager, that a large majority of players fall into the camp of "casual" or "still have content to complete"... Seriously, does this genre exist only for those people who seem to have nothing else to do...? I think not. 
  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

     No wonder "everyone goes back to WoW". No themepark game launching today can hope to compete with one that's had 8 years of development and expansions since launch image

     

    This may no longer be true, at least from my point of view. People that have gone back to WoW over the past year have been greeted by ONE 8-boss raid and 3 5-man dungeons, one one rep gridning area for gear.

    It USED to mean going to to multiple layers or tiers and one hell of a grind just to be able to start accessing that content. Remember attunements? I can't remember how long it took just to get in to Kara. It was this kind of thing that kept people engaged. And if you made an alt, there were multiple ways to level.

    Games like SWTOR and TSW which are heavily driven by narrative run into trouble. A lot of posters "defending" TSW keep saying "take it slow, enjoy the content" or "thank goodness I'm so busy I can only play a couple of hours per week so TSW will last a long time for me."  And I haven't seen anyone say that the story-driven content isn't good, I thought that was its strength. Or they say "well you're doing it wrong you haven't unlocked the sill wheel so how can you be done." Or they say "you should do the PvP" even though a lot of people find the PvP lacking.

    But once you've completed an area, or done that story, or unlocked a serviceable skill-wheel build, there is zero point in going back because there is ONE leveling path and ONE story. So as the OP states, once you've done Transylvania and started the dungeon grind, what's the point? On top of it, TSW eliminated the need for alts.

    All of this would be fine, at least from my point of view, if you weren't paying $15 a month just to access your character. No, $15 is almost nothing. Two movie tickets cost more. But we are seeing a change in MMOs where people are asking "what am I buying?" whereas they used to not even think about that monthly fee.

    So given that TSW released with such limited content, I question whether these brief montly "installments" of content will lead to the sub retention that they planned.

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • NormantisNormantis Victoria, BCPosts: 26Member

    But this is what everyone wanted? 

     

    Forget the open ended sandbox gameplay, it is for the old farts who still remember what a good game is.  This is the new gen!

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,706Member Uncommon

    To the OP.................most people saw that coming ages ago.

    Yet MMORPG.com gave TSW 9/10 in Longevity in their review.................sometimes I wonder if they know the true meaning of Longevity.

  • DenambrenDenambren Montreal, QCPosts: 320Member Uncommon

    The lifetime sub offer should have been enough warning.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by ste2000

    To the OP.................most people saw that coming ages ago.

    Yet MMORPG.com gave TSW 9/10 in Longevity in their review.................sometimes I wonder if they know the true meaning of Longevity.

     Yeah, that score is ludicrous. I love the game but really far as longevity goes it shoudl be more in line with what the IGN reviewer stated:

    6/10

    Now they may do a great job with updates but based on current content I have no idea how anyone could give that high a grade for longevity.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ste2000

    To the OP.................most people saw that coming ages ago.

    Yet MMORPG.com gave TSW 9/10 in Longevity in their review.................sometimes I wonder if they know the true meaning of Longevity.

     But for almost a decade WoW has held millions of subs.

     

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    But I'm tired of that same old model I've been playing since 2004. I want something different.

    I will just say again that TSW is NOT different enough to stand out, and the OP is now seeing that too.

    The reality is some people need to take a fucking break from the genre because they're never going to get their holy grail.

    It is like you said yourself. All these games are a grind to one degree or another. All on how the game masks it or makes it potentially entertaining for players not completely jaded.

    Yep.

    I truly do feel TERA, TOR, TSW, RIFT... they don't do enough different and are mostly interchangeable with each other.

    But in all honesty, the best way to keep old, jaded veterans like me from burn out and actually make a MMO game feel fun and fresh and new again?

    DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT lol it's not rocket science.

    It's not "safe" - many people hate/fear change and these games are in development for 5+ years, it's really hard to predict what people are going to want/like 5 years from now.

    But if you make the same game everyone else is making, the fans are going to notice... and they are going to stick with "the old one that does it better/does more of it."

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Four0Six

     You forgot GW2, another themepark, yes with its "WvW' and DEs....but still the same, but since it is your baby I guess it is beautiful.

     Give it a month or two.

    Then him and the other usual suspects will be whining about that game as well. They're beyond predictable.


    I truly hope not.

    But GW2 does have many features designed to promote longevity like no-gear grind PvP w/ player made and official ladder-style tournaments (eSport).

    Semi-persistent owPvP in the form of WvW.

    Level downscale to make all content relevant for completionists like me.

     

    For "completionists", there's more to do in TSW than the limited content the OP was interested in playing, like maxing all the skills, lairs, spawning zone bosses, achievements, exploration, and the like.

    Make no mistake, GW2 will be no different.  Starting a few days after launch, the people who raced to 80th level will be asking the same thing - are instances the only meaningful content left (all PvP is instanced in GW2 as well)?  Completionists will say "no", but "completionists" will say that in every game, because every themepark has the exact same "problem" - the content eventually ends, until more is added.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • hotixhotix orlando, FLPosts: 129Member

    I was saying this 3 weeks ago and got flamed to hell.

     

    The game offers nothing but the same tredmil after you finish the story. And some of the new upcoming titles aren't that great either. Word on the street is Gw2 is the only semi decent thing coming out in the near future. And that is of course if I had tried "" some of the soon to be released titles.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Rohn

    For "completionists", there's more to do in TSW than the limited content the OP was interested in playing, like maxing all the skills, lairs, spawning zone bosses, achievements, exploration, and the like.

    Make no mistake, GW2 will be no different.  Starting a few days after launch, the people who raced to 80th level will be asking the same thing - are instances the only meaningful content left (all PvP is instanced in GW2 as well)?  Completionists will say "no", but "completionists" will say that in every game, because every themepark has the exact same "problem" - the content eventually ends, until more is added.

    Probably true.

    But I am hopeful for a new type of PvE endgame Anet has only told us bits and pieces about.

    Orr.

    It's pretty much WvW against the AI.

    Persistent territorial control/capture against a unified NPC force.

    Something teased at in Tabula Rasa but greatly, greatly fell short in that game.

    If Anet can pull it off, it will change the idea of PvE endgame forever.

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    But I'm tired of that same old model I've been playing since 2004. I want something different.

    I will just say again that TSW is NOT different enough to stand out, and the OP is now seeing that too.

    The reality is some people need to take a fucking break from the genre because they're never going to get their holy grail.

    It is like you said yourself. All these games are a grind to one degree or another. All on how the game masks it or makes it potentially entertaining for players not completely jaded.

    Yep.

    I truly do feel TERA, TOR, TSW, RIFT... they don't do enough different and are mostly interchangeable with each other.

     

    None of the themeparks, GW2 included, really do anything different.  Part of that is the simple fact that, in order to be a member of a genre of games, they have to fit the definition.  Games are lambasted for "not being an MMO" when they deviate too far, whether they are fun or not.  Same with every genre - boil shooters down, and they are all pretty much the same, too.

    It ends up coming down to personal preference, and whether or not a game appeals to an individual.  Sometimes, there's no accounting for liking something.  You just do or don't, no rationale required.  The amusing part comes when people try to develop a rationale for liking one and disliking another, because it's almost always loaded with hypocrisy.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by BadSpock


    I truly hope not.

    But GW2 does have many features designed to promote longevity like no-gear grind PvP w/ player made and official ladder-style tournaments (eSport).

    Semi-persistent owPvP in the form of WvW.

    Level downscale to make all content relevant for completionists like me.

    And it's got no sub fee, so I can keep coming back as often or as little as I want without being stuck to a monthly price tag.

    All MMO games are grind, it just depends on how they try to hide it and whether or not it's a fun grind or not.

    I had a great deal of fun grinding gear and content in WoW on/off for almost 7 years.

    But I'm tired of that same old model I've been playing since 2004. I want something different. The one decent AAA sandbox game on the market (EvE) just has too much I don't like, so I'm hopeful GW2 will be that new direction for me.

    But I'm not going to hijack this thread with all the reasons why GW2 is different from the big old list of themeparks I listed before.

    I will just say again that TSW is NOT different enough to stand out, and the OP is now seeing that too.

     ...and some are going to balk there isn't any goals

    Others are going to complain DEs are the same old shit

    Some will state WvWs are broke and simply zerg fests

    etc.

    The reality is some people need to take a fucking break from the genre because they're never going to get their holy grail.

    It is like you said yourself. All these games are a grind to one degree or another. All on how the game masks it or makes it potentially entertaining for players not completely jaded.

    imageimage

     

    TSW does have the ability wheel though. If you like to build you have 600 hours of content out the gate. One month in probably with a completely unacceptable /played for a grown man, my wheel is 53% complete.

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