They could lose all their subs tomorrow and WoW would still end up being the most successful video game in the history of video games.
If they lost all their subs, they would lose 99.9% of their revenue, tanking their stock value and most likely causing the layoffs of execs and hundreds of devs... how could that be considered successful?
He is actually quite correct. In terms of pure revenue World of Warcraft is the most profitable game in the history of all video games. Even Square Enix admitted their FFXI was their most profitable game ever, and they included all other Final Fantasy Games in that quote (not to mention it had no where near the numbers of WoW at any point in time).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
They could lose all their subs tomorrow and WoW would still end up being the most successful video game in the history of video games.
If they lost all their subs, they would lose 99.9% of their revenue, tanking their stock value and most likely causing the layoffs of execs and hundreds of devs... how could that be considered successful?
He is actually quite correct. In terms of pure revenue World of Warcraft is the most profitable game in the history of all video games. Even Square Enix admitted their FFXI was their most profitable game ever, and they included all other Final Fantasy Games in that quote (not to mention it had no where near the numbers of WoW at any point in time.
If we're talking "historically", then yes, I think I would agree; though much good it will do anyone.
Originally posted by spaniard81 Originally posted by FoomerangThey could lose all their subs tomorrow and WoW would still end up being the most successful video game in the history of video games.
If they lost all their subs, they would lose 99.9% of their revenue, tanking their stock value and most likely causing the layoffs of execs and hundreds of devs... how could that be considered successful?
Because they have already made over 10 billion dollars. The second highest game is Call of Duty: Black Ops, which comes in at 1.5 billion.
I guess watching games bleed subscriptions is supposed to be good...
Schadenfreude sure is fun! Isn't it?
There's certainly a discussion to be had with this news, but "epic fail" isn't it. I can't stand World of Warcraft, personally, but I'd hardly classify this downward trajectory as an 'epic fail'.
Would love to see you guys turn this around into a discussion about why Blizzard's behemoth of an MMO is losing subscriptions at the rate it is. Hint: there are many forces at work here. The least of which being, "WoW sucks! D'uh!".
I guess watching games bleed subscriptions is supposed to be good...
Schadenfreude sure is fun! Isn't it?
There's certainly a discussion to be had with this news, but "epic fail" isn't it. I can't stand World of Warcraft, personally, but I'd hardly classify this downward trajectory as an 'epic fail'.
Would love to see you guys turn this around into a discussion about why Blizzard's behemoth of an MMO is losing subscriptions at the rate it is. Hint: there are many forces at work here. The least of which being, "WoW sucks! D'uh!".
Are you angling at a certain theory mmorpg.com has recently thrown around?:
Even WoW can't escape the player trend. We are leaving sub games in droves. My theory is a sub game cannot last in an oversaturated market of equal quality f2p games.
I feel like the above article touches on this same idea - indicating it was the pricing model of ToR that was the central problem, rather than the game itself.
I think WoW will very likely develop a f2p model soon as well. I also believe that it will have the highest amount of subs of any mmo even after it goes f2p.
The sky isn't falling people. The market is simply shifting to a new price model.
I'm not angling at anything. I'm just tired of the herp derp "epic fail" nonsense on our forums. I genuinely believe you are all better than that and I'd like to see the discussion here elevated beyond this stuff.
Originally posted by MikeB I'm not angling at anything. I'm just tired of the herp derp "epic fail" nonsense on our forums. I genuinely believe you are all better than that and I'd like to see the discussion here elevated beyond this stuff.
Woot! I'm glad you are saying that. Try to get your cohorts in on it too.
Originally posted by MikeB I'm not angling at anything. I'm just tired of the herp derp "epic fail" nonsense on our forums. I genuinely believe you are all better than that and I'd like to see the discussion here elevated beyond this stuff.
Woot! I'm glad you are saying that. Try to get your cohorts in on it too.
" Today's Q2 2012 financial results call revealed World of Warcraft has approximately 9.1 million subscribers, as of June 30, 2012.In less than 2 years....12mil--->9.1mil
epic fail
OMG!! Only 9.1 million subscribers left!!?? Someone call the President and take us to Defcon 3!!
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I guess watching games bleed subscriptions is supposed to be good...
Schadenfreude sure is fun! Isn't it?
There's certainly a discussion to be had with this news, but "epic fail" isn't it. I can't stand World of Warcraft, personally, but I'd hardly classify this downward trajectory as an 'epic fail'.
Would love to see you guys turn this around into a discussion about why Blizzard's behemoth of an MMO is losing subscriptions at the rate it is. Hint: there are many forces at work here. The least of which being, "WoW sucks! D'uh!".
People are just tired I think. So many years in Azeroth has just burned many gamers out, and with Cataclysm being so short, nothing to do at the end beyond raids and mind numbing dailies, it kind of leaves you going "whats the point?"
They will of course get people back with the expansion. If MoP turns out to be like Cataclysm though, and only offer a few weeks worth of content, then I believe we will see this downward trend continuing.
It’s a significant slide that if allowed to continue might actually enable other game developers to feel like real competitors again. But it’s still 9.1 million paying subscribers and I just can’t call that an epic fail. With WOW the numbers are always in the millions be if profits or slides and most other games are lucky to stay in business. What I really wish I knew, was what game did those 3 million subscribers go play instead?
It’s a significant slide that if allowed to continue might actually enable other game developers to feel like real competitors again. But it’s still 9.1 million paying subscribers and I just can’t call that an epic fail. With WOW the numbers are always in the millions be if profits or slides and most other games are lucky to stay in business. What I really wish I knew, was what game did those 3 million subscribers go play instead?
If what the people I know who used to be wow fanatics are playing now is anything to go by, those millions of players have most likely moved on to MOBA games such as LoL.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Originally posted by Souldrainer WoW's biggest population gains have come in the months leading up to a major expansion. This time around, they instead lost 9.1 million. This is not good!
This is factually false and makes no sense what-so-ever.
Just before an expansion launch is where the population dips the most.
People tend to buy the expansion and return to WoW. Not the other way around.
I wish to live in a world where a sub-based game that has 9.1 Million players is considered 'fail'.
It must be such a illogical place to live! ROFL!!
You're right... WoW never hit 12 million players before cata... and hey, Justin Bieber sells the most records, so he must be a great musician.
I don't recall commenting on the quality of WoW or whether it is a good game or not.
Nice strawman there.
That's subjective on each person. I don't like Jazz but that doesn't mean it is a 'bad' music genre.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
It’s a significant slide that if allowed to continue might actually enable other game developers to feel like real competitors again. But it’s still 9.1 million paying subscribers and I just can’t call that an epic fail. With WOW the numbers are always in the millions be if profits or slides and most other games are lucky to stay in business. What I really wish I knew, was what game did those 3 million subscribers go play instead?
If what the people I know who used to be wow fanatics are playing now is anything to go by, those millions of players have most likely moved on to MOBA games such as LoL.
Most of my WoW friends have turned to Steam and began working on their massive backlog of games that has accumulated over the years while they pretty much exclusiveley played WoW. I know my own backlog is pretty large...
So using this as a typical sample, it tells me that the "glorious" days of players leaving WoW doesn't mean they will magicially turn to the hater's favorite MMOs, it means they are leaving MMO's period. They got their MMO fix and now they are playing something completely different.
Originally posted by MikeB I'm not angling at anything. I'm just tired of the herp derp "epic fail" nonsense on our forums. I genuinely believe you are all better than that and I'd like to see the discussion here elevated beyond this stuff.
Totally agree.
If I were a new potential MMO player, found MMORPG.com to research MMOs and read the forums to find out what cool games are available...I'd never even start playing an MMO. So many negative/hate filled "Game X sucks donky balls" posts it's impossible to get anything positive. Why would I play game "x" when there are 200 posts saying that it's just a mind numbing boring, kiddie game? 200 post saying the same thing must be right? right?
tldr; The players are just hurting themselves by dissing every game all the time.
Originally posted by MikeB I'm not angling at anything. I'm just tired of the herp derp "epic fail" nonsense on our forums. I genuinely believe you are all better than that and I'd like to see the discussion here elevated beyond this stuff.
Woot! I'm glad you are saying that. Try to get your cohorts in on it too.
Sorry. In on what? Confused..
I would like to see more of the mmorpg.com staff posting objections to 'nonsense' threads like these - assuming of course they share a similar opinion.
Anyway I don't like to see gamers develop mean spirited battles over games. I think we should be happy when games do well, even if we don't like them personally.
In a way, you could say with the millions of WoW fans and its undisputed influence, this could be considered a thread designed for baiting.
So, I'm glad you said what you did, and wish others associated with the site would do it more.
It looks like WoW is going to fall to lesser mortals and being eaten alive by hundreds of F2P mmos.
They should add a more casual version of the game with only mini-games up to level 30 for all those that bought the base, and +5 levels for each additional expansion.
" Today's Q2 2012 financial results call revealed World of Warcraft has approximately 9.1 million subscribers, as of June 30, 2012.In less than 2 years....12mil--->9.1mil
epic fail
This, from the writer of the following:
"they not going f2p because the game is a failure (you wish that but keep dreaming,1mil subs say hi)" - on SWTOR going F2P
Having 1 million subs isn't failure, but having 9 million subs is.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I was looking around on the WoW forums, and a thought hit me:
Since the developers of World of Warcraft tend to create new content patches at the pace of a snail (6-8 months) when they were at their peak, what would happen when their subscriber count drops even further than now? Would they increase the speed of their content patches, or would they be complacent and act the same as usual?
I was looking around on the WoW forums, and a thought hit me:
Since the developers of World of Warcraft tend to create new content patches at the pace of a snail (6-8 months) when they were at their peak, what would happen when their subscriber count drops even further than now? Would they increase the speed of their content patches, or would they be complacent and act the same as usual?
Sadly nothing will speed up the way blizz puts out patched. They have always been slow as a snail to get around to anything sort of content patces, WoW, D2, D3, SC2, ect... and that is their biggest downfall honstly. You want quality content at a great rate ? Play Rift, thats the new standard and no i dont play rift any more nor WoW.
Iam not a fanboy of world of warcraft! I has never liked wow after venila.But to say wow have faild after 8 yers whit that highe sub in all this years is rediculous
When a game hasn't had a content update in 8 months people tend to grow bored and quit. I do find it shocking that Blizzard is a behemoth in the gaming world, but can't even crank out updates fast. P2P MMOs need to get with the times. If i'm paying a monthly fee I want constant updates every 2-3 months. I still get sick to my stomach knowing people play WoW for months and are content with how slow content is.
Most of my WoW friends have turned to Steam and began working on their massive backlog of games that has accumulated over the years while they pretty much exclusiveley played WoW. I know my own backlog is pretty large...
So using this as a typical sample, it tells me that the "glorious" days of players leaving WoW doesn't mean they will magicially turn to the hater's favorite MMOs, it means they are leaving MMO's period. They got their MMO fix and now they are playing something completely different.
I agree with that looking at my own steam backlog and friends that played wow now also enjoying steams summer sales.
Also WOW is 8 years old and has not reinvented itself (a good NGE) so no wonder they lose some subs.
It is still one of the best mmos out there and if they ever decide to go f2p i see no reason they could attract up to 20 millions players.
For now it is the normal 'gain subscribers with new content', 'lose subscribers when content is used up' trend.
And the real interesting number would be - did they lose more asian or western players?
My guess would be more western players as the competition seems fiercer and the crowd fickler.
I guess watching games bleed subscriptions is supposed to be good...
Schadenfreude sure is fun! Isn't it?
There's certainly a discussion to be had with this news, but "epic fail" isn't it. I can't stand World of Warcraft, personally, but I'd hardly classify this downward trajectory as an 'epic fail'.
Would love to see you guys turn this around into a discussion about why Blizzard's behemoth of an MMO is losing subscriptions at the rate it is. Hint: there are many forces at work here. The least of which being, "WoW sucks! D'uh!".
I've been following mmorpg.com for a while now, I figured it was time to start posting
I'll start with this one...
I agree with MikeB, I would also not qualify the "downward trajectory" which WOW is currently experiencing as "epic fail", however, I would argue that something is not "right"; you don't lose 1 million subs in 3 months without there being an issue which is not being addressed. A lot of games don't even have as many subs as WOW lost in 3 months, let alone a third (even a fourth) of WOW's active subscribers.
Why is Blizzard, behemoth of behemoths in the gaming industry, losing subscriptions at the rate that it is? I would argue a combination of multiple factors:
The Economy: A stagnant and sluggish economy never helps anyone,especially businesses. People just don't have as much money to spend anymore, therefore superfluous spending (entertainment in this case) will decrease.
The aging giant: This November WOW will turn 8 years... 8 years!! In some cases, aging can be a good thing, in other cases, a bad thing. I think in Blizzard's case, it's a little of both. Blizzard's experience is second to none, they have had and for the most part sitll have some of the best devs, artists and designers in the industry; however, that can be a double edge sword... not very easy to teach an old dog new tricks. People are (and have been for a while now) tiring of WOW's repetitive and tiresome mechanics. Some complain of the outdated graphics/style and general look of the game, others about the mindless and never ending repetitive gear grinding treadmill and others are easily distracted by newer games whilst ignoring WOW's "old" stuff (there is a different reason for every player; 9.1 players... 9.1 million different reasons).
Newer (dare I say "better"?) games: To sports fans, there is a huge difference between losing a game and getting beaten. If you lose the game, it was your fault, if you got beaten, they were better and you couldn't do anything about it. I would argue in Blizzard's case, it's yet again a combination of both situations. Blizzard is old but it still has a lot of life and energy in it; and as I've stated before, it still has some of the best devs in the industry. However, WOW (since that is the topic of discussion) can only go so far, much like an aging athlete. At some point (to continue with the analogy) better athletes arrive and sometimes the aging athlete just can't compete the way he/she used to (think Lance Armstrong in his last Tour de France). Eventually better games will come and players will have to decide whether to stick with WOW or move on to a newer game.
I could go on and on but for the sake of those reading this, I'll stop right here.
Comments
He is actually quite correct. In terms of pure revenue World of Warcraft is the most profitable game in the history of all video games. Even Square Enix admitted their FFXI was their most profitable game ever, and they included all other Final Fantasy Games in that quote (not to mention it had no where near the numbers of WoW at any point in time).
If we're talking "historically", then yes, I think I would agree; though much good it will do anyone.
Because they have already made over 10 billion dollars. The second highest game is Call of Duty: Black Ops, which comes in at 1.5 billion.
Schadenfreude sure is fun! Isn't it?
There's certainly a discussion to be had with this news, but "epic fail" isn't it. I can't stand World of Warcraft, personally, but I'd hardly classify this downward trajectory as an 'epic fail'.
Would love to see you guys turn this around into a discussion about why Blizzard's behemoth of an MMO is losing subscriptions at the rate it is. Hint: there are many forces at work here. The least of which being, "WoW sucks! D'uh!".
Are you angling at a certain theory mmorpg.com has recently thrown around?:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/6613/F2P-How-Soon-Is-Too-Soon.html/page/1
My first thought with this news:
Even WoW can't escape the player trend. We are leaving sub games in droves. My theory is a sub game cannot last in an oversaturated market of equal quality f2p games.
I feel like the above article touches on this same idea - indicating it was the pricing model of ToR that was the central problem, rather than the game itself.
I think WoW will very likely develop a f2p model soon as well. I also believe that it will have the highest amount of subs of any mmo even after it goes f2p.
The sky isn't falling people. The market is simply shifting to a new price model.
wrong place
Woot! I'm glad you are saying that. Try to get your cohorts in on it too.
Sorry. In on what? Confused..
OMG!! Only 9.1 million subscribers left!!?? Someone call the President and take us to Defcon 3!!
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
People are just tired I think. So many years in Azeroth has just burned many gamers out, and with Cataclysm being so short, nothing to do at the end beyond raids and mind numbing dailies, it kind of leaves you going "whats the point?"
They will of course get people back with the expansion. If MoP turns out to be like Cataclysm though, and only offer a few weeks worth of content, then I believe we will see this downward trend continuing.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
It’s a significant slide that if allowed to continue might actually enable other game developers to feel like real competitors again. But it’s still 9.1 million paying subscribers and I just can’t call that an epic fail. With WOW the numbers are always in the millions be if profits or slides and most other games are lucky to stay in business. What I really wish I knew, was what game did those 3 million subscribers go play instead?
If what the people I know who used to be wow fanatics are playing now is anything to go by, those millions of players have most likely moved on to MOBA games such as LoL.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I don't recall commenting on the quality of WoW or whether it is a good game or not.
Nice strawman there.
That's subjective on each person. I don't like Jazz but that doesn't mean it is a 'bad' music genre.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Most of my WoW friends have turned to Steam and began working on their massive backlog of games that has accumulated over the years while they pretty much exclusiveley played WoW. I know my own backlog is pretty large...
So using this as a typical sample, it tells me that the "glorious" days of players leaving WoW doesn't mean they will magicially turn to the hater's favorite MMOs, it means they are leaving MMO's period. They got their MMO fix and now they are playing something completely different.
Totally agree.
If I were a new potential MMO player, found MMORPG.com to research MMOs and read the forums to find out what cool games are available...I'd never even start playing an MMO. So many negative/hate filled "Game X sucks donky balls" posts it's impossible to get anything positive. Why would I play game "x" when there are 200 posts saying that it's just a mind numbing boring, kiddie game? 200 post saying the same thing must be right? right?
tldr; The players are just hurting themselves by dissing every game all the time.
I would like to see more of the mmorpg.com staff posting objections to 'nonsense' threads like these - assuming of course they share a similar opinion.
Anyway I don't like to see gamers develop mean spirited battles over games. I think we should be happy when games do well, even if we don't like them personally.
In a way, you could say with the millions of WoW fans and its undisputed influence, this could be considered a thread designed for baiting.
So, I'm glad you said what you did, and wish others associated with the site would do it more.
It looks like WoW is going to fall to lesser mortals and being eaten alive by hundreds of F2P mmos.
They should add a more casual version of the game with only mini-games up to level 30 for all those that bought the base, and +5 levels for each additional expansion.
This, from the writer of the following:
"they not going f2p because the game is a failure (you wish that but keep dreaming,1mil subs say hi)" - on SWTOR going F2P
Having 1 million subs isn't failure, but having 9 million subs is.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I was looking around on the WoW forums, and a thought hit me:
Since the developers of World of Warcraft tend to create new content patches at the pace of a snail (6-8 months) when they were at their peak, what would happen when their subscriber count drops even further than now? Would they increase the speed of their content patches, or would they be complacent and act the same as usual?
Sadly nothing will speed up the way blizz puts out patched. They have always been slow as a snail to get around to anything sort of content patces, WoW, D2, D3, SC2, ect... and that is their biggest downfall honstly. You want quality content at a great rate ? Play Rift, thats the new standard and no i dont play rift any more nor WoW.
x1muft.png
I agree with that looking at my own steam backlog and friends that played wow now also enjoying steams summer sales.
Also WOW is 8 years old and has not reinvented itself (a good NGE) so no wonder they lose some subs.
It is still one of the best mmos out there and if they ever decide to go f2p i see no reason they could attract up to 20 millions players.
For now it is the normal 'gain subscribers with new content', 'lose subscribers when content is used up' trend.
And the real interesting number would be - did they lose more asian or western players?
My guess would be more western players as the competition seems fiercer and the crowd fickler.
I've been following mmorpg.com for a while now, I figured it was time to start posting
I'll start with this one...
I agree with MikeB, I would also not qualify the "downward trajectory" which WOW is currently experiencing as "epic fail", however, I would argue that something is not "right"; you don't lose 1 million subs in 3 months without there being an issue which is not being addressed. A lot of games don't even have as many subs as WOW lost in 3 months, let alone a third (even a fourth) of WOW's active subscribers.
Why is Blizzard, behemoth of behemoths in the gaming industry, losing subscriptions at the rate that it is? I would argue a combination of multiple factors:
The Economy: A stagnant and sluggish economy never helps anyone,especially businesses. People just don't have as much money to spend anymore, therefore superfluous spending (entertainment in this case) will decrease.
The aging giant: This November WOW will turn 8 years... 8 years!! In some cases, aging can be a good thing, in other cases, a bad thing. I think in Blizzard's case, it's a little of both. Blizzard's experience is second to none, they have had and for the most part sitll have some of the best devs, artists and designers in the industry; however, that can be a double edge sword... not very easy to teach an old dog new tricks. People are (and have been for a while now) tiring of WOW's repetitive and tiresome mechanics. Some complain of the outdated graphics/style and general look of the game, others about the mindless and never ending repetitive gear grinding treadmill and others are easily distracted by newer games whilst ignoring WOW's "old" stuff (there is a different reason for every player; 9.1 players... 9.1 million different reasons).
Newer (dare I say "better"?) games: To sports fans, there is a huge difference between losing a game and getting beaten. If you lose the game, it was your fault, if you got beaten, they were better and you couldn't do anything about it. I would argue in Blizzard's case, it's yet again a combination of both situations. Blizzard is old but it still has a lot of life and energy in it; and as I've stated before, it still has some of the best devs in the industry. However, WOW (since that is the topic of discussion) can only go so far, much like an aging athlete. At some point (to continue with the analogy) better athletes arrive and sometimes the aging athlete just can't compete the way he/she used to (think Lance Armstrong in his last Tour de France). Eventually better games will come and players will have to decide whether to stick with WOW or move on to a newer game.
I could go on and on but for the sake of those reading this, I'll stop right here.