What's amazing is all the folks who expected anything else. It is a standard theme park MMO, once you complete the main story content/leveling, you are supposed to enjoy grinding up your gear to higher levels until the next wave comes along.
Or pointlessly PVPing for the fun of it.
What, that's not working for you? Now you understand why some of us bitch so much on these forums about wanting something different.
I have been the MMO block long enough to know what I should and shouldn't expect out of a game... What puzzles me is that when developers frontload all the content in a game and expect longevity worthy of subscriptions.
After you cruise through the initial content to reach this "endgame" it becomes a niche product. As someone else put it the first ride of the roller coaster is more exciting than the next, yet there shouldn't be a concrete wall at the end.
I pray for the day a decent sandbox comes out and I have tried most already... I am hoping The Repopulation is decent, DF 2.0, Origins of Malu? Dominus was canned already and some sandboxes are short lived or way to niche.
I think part of the issue is we have gotten way better at playing games we now fly thru content, honestly the only solution is EQ style mega guild raid zones but seems no developers even wanna touch that
Nope, the games have gotten easier and levels are easier to attain.
Nope, I agree with sorrow. Theres no levels here, were talking content. Nice post.
I pray for the day a decent sandbox comes out and I have tried most already... I am hoping The Repopulation is decent, DF 2.0, Origins of Malu? Dominus was canned already and some sandboxes are short lived or way to niche.
I guess we'll see...
Im keeping high hopes for AA, it looks pretty deep. I miss EQ and SWG, I wish for an updated version that mirrors those games, but themepark is money. Sandbox games dont draw the big crowds because the difficulty and grindy aspects.
I think part of the issue is we have gotten way better at playing games we now fly thru content, honestly the only solution is EQ style mega guild raid zones but seems no developers even wanna touch that
Nope, the games have gotten easier and levels are easier to attain.
Nope, I agree with sorrow. Theres no levels here, were talking content. Nice post.
You still need exp to skill up! call it whatever you like the only difference is a number doesn't change when you fill up your exp bar. its only an illusion of no levels.
What's amazing is all the folks who expected anything else. It is a standard theme park MMO, once you complete the main story content/leveling, you are supposed to enjoy grinding up your gear to higher levels until the next wave comes along.
Or pointlessly PVPing for the fun of it.
What, that's not working for you? Now you understand why some of us bitch so much on these forums about wanting something different.
You know they know that but are just posturing and slamming themeparks for their jollies.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Funcom made the same mistake Bioware made. You can't develop a MMORPG around a storyline becasue as you can see, there's nothing to do once it's been completed.
They don't last because they are not made to be a virtual world anymore, they are made as games and for content to be consumed as fast as possible and then players move on.
I think part of the issue is we have gotten way better at playing games we now fly thru content, honestly the only solution is EQ style mega guild raid zones but seems no developers even wanna touch that
I not played this game except in beta but EQ had the same content problems early on. I remember only having the two dragons to kill for raid content in EQ and everyone hoping that the server would crash so that we get a respawn. It was a while before Fear and Hate raid zones came out. The thing being that there was little else around to play so early on at least people stuck with EQ and waited for new content. Now days after a few days they jump on to a new game.
I for once am so glad I didnt rush to cap, luckily for me I really have no time to play much, maybe 10 hrs a week, and absolutely enjoy every aspect (save crafting) so far. I am only about 80% thru Savage Coast 1 month in, so maybe for a casual player this is a perfect game to dive into
Does slow reading make books better too?
How does the game quality increase by playing less?
To me your statement sounds like "It's awesome that i have little time to play that way i can pay the sub longer"
please stop saying DAOC wasnt instanced pvp because it was after new frontiers so thats misinformation. Guild wars2 has similiar pvp to daoc infact the only difference is DAOC had a realm rank system and GW2 doesnt yet.
Also OP if you like the story then just take a break and play something else and go back after a couple of months and give it a try again. Many people do this in games to save burn out from happening . I dont play TSW any longer but you cant expect them to rush out tons of new content when the last month they been still squashing some pretty serious bugs with quests ui and mechanics. While i tend not to agree much with bcbully he is absolutely right in his statement this time about other things to work on. If you dont like pvp and token grinds work on your decks for cosmetics and go for achievements. Even when i played i tried to finish all the achievements in each zone before moving on .
What's amazing is all the folks who expected anything else. It is a standard theme park MMO, once you complete the main story content/leveling, you are supposed to enjoy grinding up your gear to higher levels until the next wave comes along.
Or pointlessly PVPing for the fun of it.
What, that's not working for you? Now you understand why some of us bitch so much on these forums about wanting something different.
Older themeparks tried to mitigate this problem making "levelling" a long-process and introducing some mechanics to even make it longer (consequences of death like xp loss). People did not like it and wanted game to be more accessible.
So here you are few weeks and you're out of content unless you wanna grind hard mode in instances.
You could also have sandbox content, conflict between players, wars / fighting over something meaningful not just tokens or /and rich economy, housing, crafting.
Originally posted by tank017 That's theme parks for ya.they all last about a month out of the gate until they start running out of content.Then you must wait for content updates and xpacks.
Dunno man, WoW was a themepark and I played it for 5 years almost never running out of fun things to do. TSW just has extremely poor end game and zero replayability. Pretty much the same flaws TOR has.
Story makes a good SRPG but a terrible MMORPG. I wish MMO devs would stop with all this story nonsense and go back to making addictive virtual worlds........
What's amazing is all the folks who expected anything else. It is a standard theme park MMO, once you complete the main story content/leveling, you are supposed to enjoy grinding up your gear to higher levels until the next wave comes along.
Or pointlessly PVPing for the fun of it.
What, that's not working for you? Now you understand why some of us bitch so much on these forums about wanting something different.
Older themeparks tried to mitigate this problem making "levelling" a long-process and introducing some mechanics to even make it longer (consequences of death like xp loss). People did not like it and wanted game to be more accessible.
So here you are few weeks and you're out of content unless you wanna grind hard mode in instances.
You could also have sandbox content, conflict between players, wars / fighting over something meaningful not just tokens or /and rich economy, housing, crafting.
All "modern" themeparks have this same problem at launch, because the leveling speed is so high that a significant % of the playerbase gets through all the "leveling content" in the first 3-6 weeks. After that it's endless repeating of the same limited amount of dailies and instances for "better gear".
In class based MMO's, players can reroll alts and get another 4 weeks of play per alt/class, but in many games that also requires repeating large chunks of leveling content.
No wonder "everyone goes back to WoW". No themepark game launching today can hope to compete with one that's had 8 years of development and expansions since launch
If you asked me a week or so ago I would be telling how amazing and imersive this game is and how it seemed to have such limitless possibilities. Brilliant story lines, incredible character development, and a completely new genre breaking away from the endless "80% fantasy 20% Sci fi" games out there.
About a week ago I completed the full storyline and I thought to myself that was great! but at the same time I wanted more. I started running through Transylvania again, this time kinda rushing through the quests and finding a few new side missions along the way.
Now after my third play through of Transylvania I am like "what now". It is as if this game fell right off a cliff for me. I patiently awaited the 1.1 content patch and chewed through that content like another morphine injection only to be back at the bottom of this cliff...
So now I start looking for other things to do... Instances? PvP? I thought to myself let me try the other aspects of the game only to reveal what was such a rich exciting game reduced to a (pick your) token grind fest... So now you really have no choice but to dedicate countless hours upon hours doing nothing but either PvP and/or instance running to get your tokens to buy your gear only to need more tokens to then upgrade the gear!
But wait don't you get decent gear along the way? Well yes and no... So you did all your instances on Expert level pretty much have a versatile set of Blues at this point... Now it's time for nightmare... /LFG "you need to be this spec", "your AR/HR (attack or heal rating) is to low" and all the usual elitist bullshit. Ok, so now you finally found a group and your off to do some nightmare only to find out that that nice epic drop you just got is not upgradable! See once you have all QL10 gear you are not done, Token gear can be upgraded to 10.3 (PvP) and 10.4 (PvE) and when you look at Token cost vs gear/upgrade kits (single use) you know you are in for some long ass grind.
The same is true with PvP... Do your battle grounds or Fusang Capture facility quest and let your tokens trickle in only to get 7-10 a clip only to find out you need 1000's of tokens to gear up.
Game companies wonder why they lose subs after 1-2 months. Man, I really enjoy this game and I am hoping for some staying power with regular updates but this sudden change in gameplay has really got me down.
to break it down two things happened. You were affected by the trinity elitest syndrome, where everything was REQUIRED to do anything with elitests jerks in dungeons, and you were affected by the gear treadmill nightmare. It's not that it's a themepark that's the issue, it's that it's a themepark with these problems, requiring you to do a certain thing in a certain cookie cutter way to be successful because of it's design flaws, and requiring you go through and get the next tier gear is essentially what everyone's having issues with these days.
Exactly! Slow reading DOES make book better. You live through story sentence by sentence, page by page. This is big trial and drama what exactly is happening to mmo genre right now - consumerized and casualised gameplay.
I for once am so glad I didnt rush to cap, luckily for me I really have no time to play much, maybe 10 hrs a week, and absolutely enjoy every aspect (save crafting) so far. I am only about 80% thru Savage Coast 1 month in, so maybe for a casual player this is a perfect game to dive into
Does slow reading make books better too?
How does the game quality increase by playing less?
To me your statement sounds like "It's awesome that i have little time to play that way i can pay the sub longer"
Exactly! Slow reading DOES make book better. You live through story sentence by sentence, page by page. This is big trial and drama what exactly is happening to mmo genre right now - consumerized and casualised gameplay.
What's amazing is all the folks who expected anything else. It is a standard theme park MMO, once you complete the main story content/leveling, you are supposed to enjoy grinding up your gear to higher levels until the next wave comes along.
Or pointlessly PVPing for the fun of it.
What, that's not working for you? Now you understand why some of us bitch so much on these forums about wanting something different.
Older themeparks tried to mitigate this problem making "levelling" a long-process and introducing some mechanics to even make it longer (consequences of death like xp loss). People did not like it and wanted game to be more accessible.
So here you are few weeks and you're out of content unless you wanna grind hard mode in instances.
You could also have sandbox content, conflict between players, wars / fighting over something meaningful not just tokens or /and rich economy, housing, crafting.
All "modern" themeparks have this same problem at launch, because the leveling speed is so high that a significant % of the playerbase gets through all the "leveling content" in the first 3-6 weeks. After that it's endless repeating of the same limited amount of dailies and instances for "better gear".
In class based MMO's, players can reroll alts and get another 4 weeks of play per alt/class, but in many games that also requires repeating large chunks of leveling content.
No wonder "everyone goes back to WoW". No themepark game launching today can hope to compete with one that's had 8 years of development and expansions since launch
Well in WoW you can get from 1 to 85 in like 2 weeks now though? It is even faster than most of new games.
Of course you have diffrent starting zones and 2 factions,but many games have separate quest for diffrent factions (not like TSW) and unless something changed in WoW you also had to 'repeat large chunks of levelling content' if you were using same faction.
Mmoprg genre face inevitable popularity drop imo.
Many players will just not 'go back to WoW', many WoW players that will leave it - will go to non-mmorpg games like MOBA or other non-rpg mmo's like mmofps like Planetside 2.
I think hoping that all WoW players will go playing diffrent mmorpg's once they are finished with WoW is naive.
Mmorpg genre growth is over, it might even get smaller.
It is good though. For gameplay.
Might be bad for game budgets or number of titles though.
I for once am so glad I didnt rush to cap, luckily for me I really have no time to play much, maybe 10 hrs a week, and absolutely enjoy every aspect (save crafting) so far. I am only about 80% thru Savage Coast 1 month in, so maybe for a casual player this is a perfect game to dive into
Does slow reading make books better too?
How does the game quality increase by playing less?
To me your statement sounds like "It's awesome that i have little time to play that way i can pay the sub longer"
Exactly! Slow reading DOES make book better. You live through story sentence by sentence, page by page. This is big trial and drama what exactly is happening to mmo genre right now - consumerized and casualised gameplay.
/ sorry for double post.
It makes a bad book worse. There are alot of mediocre fantasy books I wouldn't have made it through without a bit of smart paragraph skipping.
I for once am so glad I didnt rush to cap, luckily for me I really have no time to play much, maybe 10 hrs a week, and absolutely enjoy every aspect (save crafting) so far. I am only about 80% thru Savage Coast 1 month in, so maybe for a casual player this is a perfect game to dive into
Does slow reading make books better too?
How does the game quality increase by playing less?
To me your statement sounds like "It's awesome that i have little time to play that way i can pay the sub longer"
Exactly! Slow reading DOES make book better. You live through story sentence by sentence, page by page. This is big trial and drama what exactly is happening to mmo genre right now - consumerized and casualised gameplay.
/ sorry for double post.
It makes a bad book worse. There are alot of mediocre fantasy books I wouldn't have made it through without a bit of smart paragraph skipping.
I bought a lifetime membership, I dont consider this a mediocre book, the story I am following has me more enthralled then any book I have ever read. Im in no rush, I know some of you are, personally I used to be that way, RIFT I was in the group that grinded straight to 50 in the first weekend, had tons and tons of world firsts, then what. I really like MMO's, but I was getting so burned out. I decided I would cut back, limit myself. I bought the lifetime sub so I wouldnt feel the need to race thru content as fast as possible. And guess what...the most important thing, I am enjoying myself.
I cancelled, for kind of the same reasons, i did the elite grind, and I wast to interested in the NM one, did most of transylvania. Transylvania just didnt seem as compelling as kingsmouth and egypt.
But then EvE started calling again, I had a day left of training before I could get into a hulk, and I regretted not finishing that up (not that I'll be buying one before the mining ship patch)
The game was well worth the 50 bucks, I was glad to play it, time to move on, GW2 next obviously, maybe it will last me longer, maybe not, but at least there's no sub, so no bar to re-entry.
Another aspect that they counted on (TSW) was re-playability. It's not there, at least for me. It might be ok to go in and tinker a bit but once you've done the quests a few times (at least through Egypt for me between release and beta) the idea of a new character is tiresome.
Randomly generated content and/or user created content is the only future for themepark MMOs. I have my eye on Neverwinter for this, hopefully they will do it right.
It's not like it can't be done. Anarchy Online proved that a randomly generated mission/quest system is possible.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
This is normal for the typical sub-based AAA mmo launch. This is why subs are going away, people need permission to play more than one game at a time to feed the need for content.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
As the above poster said, thats kinda the deal with this type of game. Its why I prefer sandbox games, but really ANY new game is like this at first. GW2 will be the same way. Its why we all play, addiction. You got addicted, blew through all your stash in a week and now your strung out, dealer is out of stock and you have to wait till he resupplies. If your previous games were WoW, EQ, EQ2, or AO then you had years of content and extra stuff developed over the lifespan of the game. This game is barely over a month old, what on earth do you expect? endless content and a never ending supply of additional material that grows faster than you can grind through it? I find it really, really cool that they have put out a little extra stuff this early and promised monthly updates as it is. Im pretty sure this is one of VERY few if any, that do that. My advice is slow down, dont be in a hurry because the end is the end, unless you like dungeon/gear grinding or repeating quests. I have started doing PvP recently and split time between Transylvania, PvP, and Elite/NM Dungeons making sure to chang eit up if I get frustrated or tired of that same thing. If this doesnt help, then well see you next month for the next issue update. Someday, maybe a year from now or so, there will be a new guy that tries it and by then there will be a ton of stuff and he'll look back at this post and wonder what the heck you were talking about....lol...take care, and happy hunting,
Rusrec aka Tornside.
I couldn't have said it better.
When I played Star Wars Galaxies (PreCU) it was all about Player made content which lasted longer than any themepark MMO today. Yeah we had a few expansions releases, but then again, it was a different time and place in mmorpg gaming.
I believe today you gotta have both "Player made content as well as themepark amusement from the developers with expansions and new content generated monthly". That's why I believe in a subscription base model and don't mind paying a monthly fee to my favorite mmo for expansion developement.
Comments
I have been the MMO block long enough to know what I should and shouldn't expect out of a game... What puzzles me is that when developers frontload all the content in a game and expect longevity worthy of subscriptions.
After you cruise through the initial content to reach this "endgame" it becomes a niche product. As someone else put it the first ride of the roller coaster is more exciting than the next, yet there shouldn't be a concrete wall at the end.
I pray for the day a decent sandbox comes out and I have tried most already... I am hoping The Repopulation is decent, DF 2.0, Origins of Malu? Dominus was canned already and some sandboxes are short lived or way to niche.
I guess we'll see...
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Nope, I agree with sorrow. Theres no levels here, were talking content. Nice post.
Im keeping high hopes for AA, it looks pretty deep. I miss EQ and SWG, I wish for an updated version that mirrors those games, but themepark is money. Sandbox games dont draw the big crowds because the difficulty and grindy aspects.
You still need exp to skill up! call it whatever you like the only difference is a number doesn't change when you fill up your exp bar. its only an illusion of no levels.
You know they know that but are just posturing and slamming themeparks for their jollies.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Funcom made the same mistake Bioware made. You can't develop a MMORPG around a storyline becasue as you can see, there's nothing to do once it's been completed.
They don't last because they are not made to be a virtual world anymore, they are made as games and for content to be consumed as fast as possible and then players move on.
I not played this game except in beta but EQ had the same content problems early on. I remember only having the two dragons to kill for raid content in EQ and everyone hoping that the server would crash so that we get a respawn. It was a while before Fear and Hate raid zones came out. The thing being that there was little else around to play so early on at least people stuck with EQ and waited for new content. Now days after a few days they jump on to a new game.
Does slow reading make books better too?
How does the game quality increase by playing less?
To me your statement sounds like "It's awesome that i have little time to play that way i can pay the sub longer"
please stop saying DAOC wasnt instanced pvp because it was after new frontiers so thats misinformation. Guild wars2 has similiar pvp to daoc infact the only difference is DAOC had a realm rank system and GW2 doesnt yet.
Also OP if you like the story then just take a break and play something else and go back after a couple of months and give it a try again. Many people do this in games to save burn out from happening . I dont play TSW any longer but you cant expect them to rush out tons of new content when the last month they been still squashing some pretty serious bugs with quests ui and mechanics. While i tend not to agree much with bcbully he is absolutely right in his statement this time about other things to work on. If you dont like pvp and token grinds work on your decks for cosmetics and go for achievements. Even when i played i tried to finish all the achievements in each zone before moving on .
+1
This kinda.
@op
Older themeparks tried to mitigate this problem making "levelling" a long-process and introducing some mechanics to even make it longer (consequences of death like xp loss). People did not like it and wanted game to be more accessible.
So here you are few weeks and you're out of content unless you wanna grind hard mode in instances.
You could also have sandbox content, conflict between players, wars / fighting over something meaningful not just tokens or /and rich economy, housing, crafting.
Dunno man, WoW was a themepark and I played it for 5 years almost never running out of fun things to do. TSW just has extremely poor end game and zero replayability. Pretty much the same flaws TOR has.
Story makes a good SRPG but a terrible MMORPG. I wish MMO devs would stop with all this story nonsense and go back to making addictive virtual worlds........
All "modern" themeparks have this same problem at launch, because the leveling speed is so high that a significant % of the playerbase gets through all the "leveling content" in the first 3-6 weeks. After that it's endless repeating of the same limited amount of dailies and instances for "better gear".
In class based MMO's, players can reroll alts and get another 4 weeks of play per alt/class, but in many games that also requires repeating large chunks of leveling content.
No wonder "everyone goes back to WoW". No themepark game launching today can hope to compete with one that's had 8 years of development and expansions since launch
to break it down two things happened. You were affected by the trinity elitest syndrome, where everything was REQUIRED to do anything with elitests jerks in dungeons, and you were affected by the gear treadmill nightmare. It's not that it's a themepark that's the issue, it's that it's a themepark with these problems, requiring you to do a certain thing in a certain cookie cutter way to be successful because of it's design flaws, and requiring you go through and get the next tier gear is essentially what everyone's having issues with these days.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Exactly! Slow reading DOES make book better. You live through story sentence by sentence, page by page. This is big trial and drama what exactly is happening to mmo genre right now - consumerized and casualised gameplay.
/ sorry for double post.
Well in WoW you can get from 1 to 85 in like 2 weeks now though? It is even faster than most of new games.
Of course you have diffrent starting zones and 2 factions,but many games have separate quest for diffrent factions (not like TSW) and unless something changed in WoW you also had to 'repeat large chunks of levelling content' if you were using same faction.
Mmoprg genre face inevitable popularity drop imo.
Many players will just not 'go back to WoW', many WoW players that will leave it - will go to non-mmorpg games like MOBA or other non-rpg mmo's like mmofps like Planetside 2.
I think hoping that all WoW players will go playing diffrent mmorpg's once they are finished with WoW is naive.
Mmorpg genre growth is over, it might even get smaller.
It is good though. For gameplay.
Might be bad for game budgets or number of titles though.
It makes a bad book worse. There are alot of mediocre fantasy books I wouldn't have made it through without a bit of smart paragraph skipping.
I bought a lifetime membership, I dont consider this a mediocre book, the story I am following has me more enthralled then any book I have ever read. Im in no rush, I know some of you are, personally I used to be that way, RIFT I was in the group that grinded straight to 50 in the first weekend, had tons and tons of world firsts, then what. I really like MMO's, but I was getting so burned out. I decided I would cut back, limit myself. I bought the lifetime sub so I wouldnt feel the need to race thru content as fast as possible. And guess what...the most important thing, I am enjoying myself.
I cancelled, for kind of the same reasons, i did the elite grind, and I wast to interested in the NM one, did most of transylvania. Transylvania just didnt seem as compelling as kingsmouth and egypt.
But then EvE started calling again, I had a day left of training before I could get into a hulk, and I regretted not finishing that up (not that I'll be buying one before the mining ship patch)
The game was well worth the 50 bucks, I was glad to play it, time to move on, GW2 next obviously, maybe it will last me longer, maybe not, but at least there's no sub, so no bar to re-entry.
Randomly generated content and/or user created content is the only future for themepark MMOs. I have my eye on Neverwinter for this, hopefully they will do it right.
It's not like it can't be done. Anarchy Online proved that a randomly generated mission/quest system is possible.
What happened? You got THEMEPUNK'D.
This is normal for the typical sub-based AAA mmo launch. This is why subs are going away, people need permission to play more than one game at a time to feed the need for content.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I couldn't have said it better.
When I played Star Wars Galaxies (PreCU) it was all about Player made content which lasted longer than any themepark MMO today. Yeah we had a few expansions releases, but then again, it was a different time and place in mmorpg gaming.
I believe today you gotta have both "Player made content as well as themepark amusement from the developers with expansions and new content generated monthly". That's why I believe in a subscription base model and don't mind paying a monthly fee to my favorite mmo for expansion developement.