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GW2 Downed State Adds Strategy & Complexity

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Comments

  • UOvetUOvet Fort Myers, FLPosts: 514Member

    ...

     

    I'm not seeing how the downed state really adds "complexity" to the game. Strategy..maybe.

     

    Watching 10 people try and down someone at the same time also looks a bit silly.

     

  • jayartejayarte LancasterPosts: 450Member
    Originally posted by ProPatria
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    More complexity usually equals less fun. The downed state makes PvP slow and frustrating, it forces players to play defensively and take less risks. It actually punishes aggressive play. I can see how PvEers like it though, it makes them feel safe in numbers. 

    ??  Gotta say this does not make much sense.  Gee...the concept that people should play in a style that might prevent their death!!!wouldn't want that would we?

    Wish more games 'punished' aggressive (read: unrealistic/careless/clueless) play and actually rewarded sound/survival-based gameplay.

    Agree completely.  The downed state to me adds another layer of strategy, and strategy is what I enjoy in games.  Never been a fan of the gung-ho approach.  Plus, I love the ability to be able to help any downed player in my vicinity without having to roll a healer.  Wonderful idea.

  • jayartejayarte LancasterPosts: 450Member
    Originally posted by C1d0s

    All the downed state does is make being beaten much more forgiving and add length to fights. To say that any of this adds extra depth is rather shallow. Pretty much ANYTHING added could, in theory, add some sort of padded complexity no matter how major or minor. IMO, the downed state is tedious and hand-holding and I'd much prefer to just die and rez normally like in most MMOs.

    You can choose that option by simply not pressing any keys on the downed state hotbar.  Presto, die and rezz,  just like other MMO's.

     

    p.s.  Sorry, still having problems getting multiquote option to work.  Or could you tell? :P

  • Originally posted by Derpybird

    I realize that some people have strong opinions about the downed state, finishing moves and rallying mechanics in PvP, and videos such as this may not influence their beliefs.

    However, I found this video fascinating, showing how downed state can add a second level of strategy for sPvP, and create some rather dramatic fights.

    Enjoy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFAlN6OSVOo

     

    As an aside, I hope that they implement a spectator mode, because while I doublt that I will be good enough to compete at higher end PvP, I do enjoy watching these battles. Some of the video reviews of sPvP that I've seen have been very helpful as well in me figuring out traits and proper weapon choice and useage.

    Very good video illustrating the strategy involved with downed state.

    Here's a video of Team Paradigm in a tournament match with the devs showing an interesting use of downed state that I hadn't seen or thought of before:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5kdzBPUxeI&hd=1

    At about the 5:15 mark you'll see what I'm talking about.

     

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member

    Honestly i think Anet have made a great work with the downed state, i have played few mmo with such system and they really gave it an other level. Also i'm supporting downed state and would really hate to see it go away if it does, and i'm pretty sure it won't at this point.

    The only critisize i have about downed state is that it render outnumbered fight impossible to win. 1vs2, you might pull it, but 1vs3 with downed state it's just make it impossible to win, the only thing you might get is time, but a win? forget about it, especially with the actual rez time = stomping time. I also hate boss rally but that's not a big deal honestly, i will get use to it and learn to avoid it.

  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member

    Some questions to those who like the downed state in PvP:

     

    Did you like PvPing in other games?

    If they implemented a similar downed state to those games would that make the PvP more enjoyable?

    Did you ever want something similar for PvP before you saw it in GW2 videos?

    If the downed state was removed from PvP would that make you stop PvPing in GW2?

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Some questions to those who like the downed state in PvP:

     

    Did you like PvPing in other games?

    If they implemented a similar downed state to those games would that make the PvP more enjoyable?

    Did you ever want something similar for PvP before you saw it in GW2 videos?

    If the downed state was removed from PvP would that make you stop PvPing in GW2?

     ... didn't you do a poll like this, and it turned out really badly for you? :3

  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Some questions to those who like the downed state in PvP:

     

    Did you like PvPing in other games?

    If they implemented a similar downed state to those games would that make the PvP more enjoyable?

    Did you ever want something similar for PvP before you saw it in GW2 videos?

    If the downed state was removed from PvP would that make you stop PvPing in GW2?

     ... didn't you do a poll like this, and it turned out really badly for you? :3

    Yep and from what we learned on that poll 80% on this site are "PvPers".

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Yep and from what we learned on that poll 80% on this site are "PvPers".

     I'm pretty sure I am!  That's no comment on whether I'm GOOD at it or not, but I spent over 1000 hours in GW1 before I beat even one of the campaigns.

    That either makes me the slowest PVE person ever, or I did a lot of PvP. :D

    I think a lot (Not all) of the people looking forward to GW2 on this site do a lot of PvP.  Still isn't a comment as to if they're good at PvP or not, just what they like to spend their time doing. :)

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Sixpax
    Originally posted by Derpybird

    I realize that some people have strong opinions about the downed state, finishing moves and rallying mechanics in PvP, and videos such as this may not influence their beliefs.

    However, I found this video fascinating, showing how downed state can add a second level of strategy for sPvP, and create some rather dramatic fights.

    Enjoy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFAlN6OSVOo

     

    As an aside, I hope that they implement a spectator mode, because while I doublt that I will be good enough to compete at higher end PvP, I do enjoy watching these battles. Some of the video reviews of sPvP that I've seen have been very helpful as well in me figuring out traits and proper weapon choice and useage.

    Very good video illustrating the strategy involved with downed state.

    Here's a video of Team Paradigm in a tournament match with the devs showing an interesting use of downed state that I hadn't seen or thought of before:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5kdzBPUxeI&hd=1

    At about the 5:15 mark you'll see what I'm talking about.

     

    like it or not how can anyone say that doesn't add strategy right there nice one.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    like it or not how can anyway say that doesn't add strategy right there nice one.

     Haha, that's so hilariously mean.

    I just picture the other player weeping openly. xD

     

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member
    Originally posted by Sixpax
    Originally posted by Derpybird

    I realize that some people have strong opinions about the downed state, finishing moves and rallying mechanics in PvP, and videos such as this may not influence their beliefs.

    However, I found this video fascinating, showing how downed state can add a second level of strategy for sPvP, and create some rather dramatic fights.

    Enjoy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFAlN6OSVOo

     

    As an aside, I hope that they implement a spectator mode, because while I doublt that I will be good enough to compete at higher end PvP, I do enjoy watching these battles. Some of the video reviews of sPvP that I've seen have been very helpful as well in me figuring out traits and proper weapon choice and useage.

    Very good video illustrating the strategy involved with downed state.

    Here's a video of Team Paradigm in a tournament match with the devs showing an interesting use of downed state that I hadn't seen or thought of before:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5kdzBPUxeI&hd=1

    At about the 5:15 mark you'll see what I'm talking about.

     

    I never thought of using it to neutralize a player for a period of time.

    Thanks for the link.

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by Sixpax
    Originally posted by Derpybird

    I realize that some people have strong opinions about the downed state, finishing moves and rallying mechanics in PvP, and videos such as this may not influence their beliefs.

    However, I found this video fascinating, showing how downed state can add a second level of strategy for sPvP, and create some rather dramatic fights.

    Enjoy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFAlN6OSVOo

     

    As an aside, I hope that they implement a spectator mode, because while I doublt that I will be good enough to compete at higher end PvP, I do enjoy watching these battles. Some of the video reviews of sPvP that I've seen have been very helpful as well in me figuring out traits and proper weapon choice and useage.

    Very good video illustrating the strategy involved with downed state.

    Here's a video of Team Paradigm in a tournament match with the devs showing an interesting use of downed state that I hadn't seen or thought of before:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5kdzBPUxeI&hd=1

    At about the 5:15 mark you'll see what I'm talking about.

     

    Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end. Another good reason to ditch the downed state. Now that I'm thinking about it I hope they keep the downed state. I'll just troll people in 8v8 by keeping them in the downed state for the whole duration of the fight. The only thing more enjoyable than PvP is griefing.

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.

     ... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?

    No wonder why you hate it so much. :)

    (Hint:  You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)

  • C1d0sC1d0s Marshall, TXPosts: 238Member
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    like it or not how can anyway say that doesn't add strategy right there nice one.

     Haha, that's so hilariously mean.

    I just picture the other player weeping openly. xD

     

    The fact that you're considering the player utilizing a game mechanic some in-depth, super-l33t strategy is what baffles me. The player used the downed state to his advantage, as ANY skilled PVPer should. Yes, technically, it is a strategy .. but that doesn't make it any more amazing or more complex than PVP without it. Players utilizing in-game features, whether or not they are frivilous or necessary, is part of the competitive nature of PVP - it's not new, it shouldn't be used as ammo to brag that the system is deep and thought-provoking. You could just as easily argue that because there is no downed state, players have to focus more of sustaining themselves and maximizing utility / dps during battles. It simply boils down to personal preference.

    To be quite fair though, my argument isn't that the downed state is "more or less strategic" and that it is tedious and pointless. Just my opinion!

    image
  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.

     ... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?

    No wonder why you hate it so much. :)

    (Hint:  You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)

    Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)

     If that happens more than once, then you DESERVE to sit there for the whole game, doing nothing, honestly.  Seriously, anybody who heals up repeatedly to 95% and gets hit, well first of all, your team members completely suck.

    Also, whoever is in the downed state sucks for not figuring out what's going on.

    There's a level of sucking going on here than I'm unwilling to believe it exists, because it would ruin my faith in humanity.

  • C1d0sC1d0s Marshall, TXPosts: 238Member
    Originally posted by otinanai123
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.

     ... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?

    No wonder why you hate it so much. :)

    (Hint:  You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)

    Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)

    You can actually do this. The last BWE I played our team used this as a viable means to control a character for longer than the 2-3 sec CCs. You let them use their heal, interrupt, then pummle the living crap out of them to keep them downed.

    Last I recall, there isn't a suicide button. Also, they could have fixed this. Not certain. 

    Strategy? Yes. Compelx? No. Simply using ( abusing? ) the system you're given.

    image
  • OldManFunkOldManFunk BFE, KSPosts: 894Member
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by otinanai123
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.

     ... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?

    No wonder why you hate it so much. :)

    (Hint:  You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)

    Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)

    You can actually do this. The last BWE I played our team used this as a viable means to control a character for longer than the 2-3 sec CCs. You let them use their heal, interrupt, then pummle the living crap out of them to keep them downed.

    Last I recall, there isn't a suicide button. Also, they could have fixed this. Not certain. 

    Strategy? Yes. Compelx? No. Simply using ( abusing? ) the system you're given.


    The game doesnt need a suicide button because you bleed out unless you activate a heal. Want to die so you can spawn? Don't hit the heal button.

  • C1d0sC1d0s Marshall, TXPosts: 238Member
    Originally posted by OldManFunk
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by otinanai123
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.

     ... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?

    No wonder why you hate it so much. :)

    (Hint:  You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)

    Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)

    You can actually do this. The last BWE I played our team used this as a viable means to control a character for longer than the 2-3 sec CCs. You let them use their heal, interrupt, then pummle the living crap out of them to keep them downed.

    Last I recall, there isn't a suicide button. Also, they could have fixed this. Not certain. 

    Strategy? Yes. Compelx? No. Simply using ( abusing? ) the system you're given.


    The game doesnt need a suicide button because you bleed out unless you activate a heal. Want to die so you can spawn? Don't hit the heal button.

    Very, very true - but most people I've come across aren't interested in dying, so they continue to chain heal after the CD to continue their struggle, in vain of course.

    image
  • OldManFunkOldManFunk BFE, KSPosts: 894Member
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by OldManFunk
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by otinanai123
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.

     ... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?

    No wonder why you hate it so much. :)

    (Hint:  You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)

    Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)

    You can actually do this. The last BWE I played our team used this as a viable means to control a character for longer than the 2-3 sec CCs. You let them use their heal, interrupt, then pummle the living crap out of them to keep them downed.

    Last I recall, there isn't a suicide button. Also, they could have fixed this. Not certain. 

    Strategy? Yes. Compelx? No. Simply using ( abusing? ) the system you're given.


    The game doesnt need a suicide button because you bleed out unless you activate a heal. Want to die so you can spawn? Don't hit the heal button.

    Very, very true - but most people I've come across aren't interested in dying, so they continue to chain heal after the CD to continue their struggle, in vain of course.


    Well, you've come across otinanai123 and he wants to die.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by C1d0s
     

    Very, very true - but most people I've come across aren't interested in dying, so they continue to chain heal after the CD to continue their struggle, in vain of course.

    that's their own fault and something smart players can use to their advantage.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by OldManFunk
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by otinanai123
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.

     ... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?

    No wonder why you hate it so much. :)

    (Hint:  You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)

    Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)

    You can actually do this. The last BWE I played our team used this as a viable means to control a character for longer than the 2-3 sec CCs. You let them use their heal, interrupt, then pummle the living crap out of them to keep them downed.

    Last I recall, there isn't a suicide button. Also, they could have fixed this. Not certain. 

    Strategy? Yes. Compelx? No. Simply using ( abusing? ) the system you're given.


    The game doesnt need a suicide button because you bleed out unless you activate a heal. Want to die so you can spawn? Don't hit the heal button.

    Sure you can bleed out but imagine how frustrating that is if the enemies force you to bleed out every time. I'm sure it will become a popular "strategy" very fast. Not only you delay your opponents but you crush their spirit too. 

  • C1d0sC1d0s Marshall, TXPosts: 238Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by C1d0s
     

    Very, very true - but most people I've come across aren't interested in dying, so they continue to chain heal after the CD to continue their struggle, in vain of course.

    that's their own fault and something smart players can use to their advantage.

    Certainly is their own fault. I wasnt' disagreeing.

    To say that it requires a smart player to do this though, that I won't agree.

    I mean, I did it and I'm a considerably average MMO player.

    image
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by otinanai123
    Originally posted by OldManFunk
    Originally posted by C1d0s
    Originally posted by otinanai123
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.

     ... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?

    No wonder why you hate it so much. :)

    (Hint:  You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)

    Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)

    You can actually do this. The last BWE I played our team used this as a viable means to control a character for longer than the 2-3 sec CCs. You let them use their heal, interrupt, then pummle the living crap out of them to keep them downed.

    Last I recall, there isn't a suicide button. Also, they could have fixed this. Not certain. 

    Strategy? Yes. Compelx? No. Simply using ( abusing? ) the system you're given.


    The game doesnt need a suicide button because you bleed out unless you activate a heal. Want to die so you can spawn? Don't hit the heal button.

    Sure you can bleed out but imagine how frustrating that is if the enemies force you to bleed out every time. I'm sure it will become a popular "strategy" very fast. Not only you delay your opponents but you crush their spirit too. 

    everytime? this is going to be a  very situational type of thing. 

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

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