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Biggest MMO Failure to date?

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  • EmerwynEmerwyn MadridPosts: 70Member

    I believe that while SWTOR does not completely succeed as MMO, it is a brilliant game with the most outstanding storyline and voice acting that any MMO has ever conceived. It has no proper endgame, probably. Like every other MMO of the current era. People are just tired of grinding raids and battlegrounds for +1 gear upgrades.

     

    I'd hardly call it a failure, either case.

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by busdriver
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by busdriver
     

    Do the math and explain how EA has made back their initial investment (200-500 million dollars) + running costs, then we stop calling it a failure.

    And while you're at it, explain how a game that was destined to kill WoW, but has now lost at least 60% of its playerbase and heading F2P... all that in less than a year, is not to be considered a failure?

    Fanboism sure is a weird thing, it's like a virus that switches off that part of human brain where logical thinking resides.

    Lets have a look at this post! :)

    1st paragraph is speculation based upon nothing substantial other than 'I read it on this blog which sourced this totally legit and not shady anonymous internet person's uncle's former husband's roommate!'

    2nd paragraph is some sort of the posters opinion of 'SWTOR was suppose to kill WoW'.

    3rd is an attack but uses the word 'logical' in a non-irony way.

     

    So what we have is an attack post based upon the posters opinion and speculation rather than 'FACTS' (500k+ sub).

    And uses the word 'logical'.

    How.....wha..... /facepalm


    Lets have a look at this post! :)

    - Ignores the questions asked and focuses on other things instead.

    - Tries to use funny words here and there to fill the otherwise useless post.

    - Throws around a subnumber, but ignores the time EA needs those subs to break even.

    - Uses a word FACT around a number given by one of the most distrusted gaming companies in the industry.

    Keep it up!

    Sorry dude but you failed at comeback. Jpnz has a point.

    You can not point fingers at EA when your own sources are anonymous bloggers who claim to be working or have been working with EA.

    Your own credbility is zero so if iw as you i wouldn't point fingers.

    Bioware never claimed SWTOR was designed to kill WOW..if they did give us some factual information.

    SWTOR cost 200 to 500 million budget again give us some factual information from official source otherwise.... yes i will have to /facepalm.

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

     

    Eh, not to be a jerk but I don't feel it's fair to skip Aion or Lineage from the discussion (both with more paying population than SWTOR globally) just because  they are successful enough to compete in both the East and West. That puts SWTOR at number four. LOL... :)

     


     

    Cut out eastern numbers from Aion and Lineage and then we can proceed, it will be very quick, I promise :)

     

    Only if you cut out the Asian sub numbers from SWTOR's subscription total too (they have a significant player population on on their Asian Pacific servers that includes Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Australia, etc.) At that point, there is real question... :P

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    I've seen several people mention closed down games, so I'll throw out this reminder:

     

     

    APB

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

     

    Eh, not to be a jerk but I don't feel it's fair to skip Aion or Lineage from the discussion (both with more paying population than SWTOR globally) just because  they are successful enough to compete in both the East and West. That puts SWTOR at number four. LOL... :)

     


     

    Cut out eastern numbers from Aion and Lineage and then we can proceed, it will be very quick, I promise :)

     

    Only if you cut out the Asian sub numbers from SWTOR's subscription total too (they have a significant player population on on their Asian Pacific servers that includes Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Australia, etc.) At that point, there is real question... :P

    Game is only officialy released in Singapore. They never released it in any other asian country that i know of. Only because people from China can play SWTOR doesn't mean you start comparing it to population of AION which was officially released first in Asia and then in west.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,867Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Crazy_StickAt that point, there is real question...

    Just because a Japanese come to your bakery for a piece of pastry does not make your business operate in Japan.

    You are mixing demographics and markets.


    The only question is if SWTOR hate is worth to ridicule yourself so much...

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

     

    Eh, not to be a jerk but I don't feel it's fair to skip Aion or Lineage from the discussion (both with more paying population than SWTOR globally) just because  they are successful enough to compete in both the East and West. That puts SWTOR at number four. LOL... :)

     


     

    Cut out eastern numbers from Aion and Lineage and then we can proceed, it will be very quick, I promise :)

     

    Only if you cut out the Asian sub numbers from SWTOR's subscription total too (they have a significant player population on on their Asian Pacific servers that includes Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Australia, etc.) At that point, there is real question... :P

    Game is only officialy released in Singapore. They never released it in any other asian country that i know of. Only because people from China can play SWTOR doesn't mean you start comparing it to population of AION which was officially released first in Asia and then in west.

     

    Sorry... That's inaccurate and their is a significant Asian Pacific population to consider. It's available in all those contries.

    http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20120214 

     

  • busdriverbusdriver nyPosts: 859Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by busdriver

    ...You mean 'what other $200+ million game did not lose subs after launch in similar pattern?'

    None....

    EA said it was their most expensive game ever, which means it cost more than $115M to make, that is the only official source about it as far as I know so stop inventing or guessing things, it makes your whole post seems fishy even if you otherwise are right.

    Yes, I know it's a questimate, real numbers are closely guarded secrets. Everyone knows this and I never claimed otherwise. Those numbers however are coming from industry and Wall Street analysts, not just some random nerd that owns a computer. And those that know the actual numbers have never disputed them.

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

     

    At that point, there is real question...

     


     

    Just because a Japanese come to your bakery for a piece of pastry does not make your business operate in Japan.

    You are mixing demographics and markets.


    The only question is if SWTOR hate is worth to ridicule yourself so much...

     

    Foot just inserted in your own mouth. Thank you... :)

     

    And contrary to your accusation. I am no "hater."

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lifeordinary

    SWTOR cost 200 to 500 million budget again give us some factual information from official source otherwise.... yes i will have to /facepalm.

    only EA source ive seen is this from Feb 2011

     

    EA denies $300 million development cost for Star Wars: The Old Republic

    http://www.technologytell.com/gaming/67580/ea-denies-300-million-development-cost-for-star-wars-the-old-republic/

    EA has rejected claims that the company has spent in excess of $300 million on its upcoming MMO Star Wars: The Old Republic. This speculation originated with EA Louse, a whistleblower who claimed to work for BioWare Mythic. EA Louse claimed the sound design in The Old Republic was the only compelling feature of the game. These claims have spread beyond the media, and have implanted themselves into the opinions of developers and analysts.

     

    this reporter claimed $200 million but EA was not quoted

    http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2012/01/20/star-wars-the-old-republic-the-story-behind-a-galactic-gamble/#/0

     

     

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

     

    Eh, not to be a jerk but I don't feel it's fair to skip Aion or Lineage from the discussion (both with more paying population than SWTOR globally) just because  they are successful enough to compete in both the East and West. That puts SWTOR at number four. LOL... :)

     


     

    Cut out eastern numbers from Aion and Lineage and then we can proceed, it will be very quick, I promise :)

     

    Only if you cut out the Asian sub numbers from SWTOR's subscription total too (they have a significant player population on on their Asian Pacific servers that includes Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Australia, etc.) At that point, there is real question... :P

    Game is only officialy released in Singapore. They never released it in any other asian country that i know of. Only because people from China can play SWTOR doesn't mean you start comparing it to population of AION which was officially released first in Asia and then in west.

     

    Sorry... That's inaccurate and their is a significant Asian Pacific population to consider. It's available in all those contries.

    http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20120214 

     

    It says Hong Kong and Singapore....what all other Asian countries SWTOR is officialy released in?

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,867Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Crazy_StickFoot just inserted in your own mouth. Thank you... :)

    And contrary to your accusation. I am no "hater."

    Since you insisted and kept making absurd claims despite all evidence and reason, I had only two options: you are either doing it intentionally or non-intentionally.

    Seems like I was wrong in my guess and overestimated you...

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

     

    Eh, not to be a jerk but I don't feel it's fair to skip Aion or Lineage from the discussion (both with more paying population than SWTOR globally) just because  they are successful enough to compete in both the East and West. That puts SWTOR at number four. LOL... :)

     


     

    Cut out eastern numbers from Aion and Lineage and then we can proceed, it will be very quick, I promise :)

     

    Only if you cut out the Asian sub numbers from SWTOR's subscription total too (they have a significant player population on on their Asian Pacific servers that includes Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Australia, etc.) At that point, there is real question... :P

    Game is only officialy released in Singapore. They never released it in any other asian country that i know of. Only because people from China can play SWTOR doesn't mean you start comparing it to population of AION which was officially released first in Asia and then in west.

     

    Sorry... That's inaccurate and their is a significant Asian Pacific population to consider. It's available in all those contries.

    http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20120214 

     

    It says Hong Kong and Singapore....what all other Asian countries SWTOR is officialy released in?

     

    Look again, right at the top. It says Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong and Singapore . Am I going to get into trouble for saying er... limited Chinese release. ;) Or even considering taking issue that Runescape as a browser MMORPG doesn't count (and if you do count it, that game sure makes a lot of big budget games look bad.) I am pretty nuetral on SWTOR as a game and don't have a lot of personal feeling attached to it.

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

     

    Foot just inserted in your own mouth. Thank you... :)

    And contrary to your accusation. I am no "hater."

     


     

    Since you insisted and kept making absurd claims despite all evidence and reason, I had only two options: you are either doing it intentionally or non-intentionally.

    Seems like I was wrong in my guess and overestimated you...

     

    Pointing out that Aion and Lineage out preform SWTOR on the global market is an absurd claim after backing it up with numbers? Pointing out that SWTOR does have a presence in the Asian Pacific market? Making it a global competitor? I think you need to step back from the PC and stop worrying about being wrong some times. It's ok. You're investing way too much anger in forum posting. Have fun with that.

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

     

    Eh, not to be a jerk but I don't feel it's fair to skip Aion or Lineage from the discussion (both with more paying population than SWTOR globally) just because  they are successful enough to compete in both the East and West. That puts SWTOR at number four. LOL... :)

     


     

    Cut out eastern numbers from Aion and Lineage and then we can proceed, it will be very quick, I promise :)

     

    Only if you cut out the Asian sub numbers from SWTOR's subscription total too (they have a significant player population on on their Asian Pacific servers that includes Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Australia, etc.) At that point, there is real question... :P

    Game is only officialy released in Singapore. They never released it in any other asian country that i know of. Only because people from China can play SWTOR doesn't mean you start comparing it to population of AION which was officially released first in Asia and then in west.

     

    Sorry... That's inaccurate and their is a significant Asian Pacific population to consider. It's available in all those contries.

    http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20120214 

     

    It says Hong Kong and Singapore....what all other Asian countries SWTOR is officialy released in?

     

    Look again, right at the top. It says Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong and Singapore . Am I going to get into trouble for saying er... limited Chinese release. ;) Or even considering taking issue that Runescape as a browser MMORPG doesn't count (and if you do count it, that game sure makes a lot of big budget games look bad.) I am pretty nuetral on SWTOR as a game and don't have a lot of personal feeling attached to it.

    I am talking about asian countries since you are using that as basis to make comparison. All i see is hong kong and singapore..now compare that to asian countries Aion and Lienage is released in? you don't see how bad the entire premises is to make a proper comparison here?

    How did you arrive to the conclusion that in comparison to AION, SWTOR has similar leve lf presence in Asia? no seriously?

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    I'd say Tabula Rasa over SWTOR but if you just wanted to feel the glory on your sparkle pony, don't let me ruin your parade.

    I agree after UO tabula was supposed to be the next big MMO for Richard but was a complete disaster. At least swtor is playable and has a decent story aspect.

    i agree

    SWTOR disappointed but it wasnt a disaster

     

    disaster mmos:  by devs w good mmo background

    SWG post NGE

    Asherons Call 2

    Tabula Rasa

    Vanguard

     

    all of these mmos had the plug pulled, except Vanguard

    SWG only had the plug pulled as LA thought they had a sure thing with SWTOR.

    SWG was a disaster in 2005, but in the last few years of its life it was far from a disaster. SOE put tonnes of effort into it, from what they were allowed to do with LA "pulling the strings", and it ended up being pretty awesome, but also at least SOE and LA put some effort into the game from the get go, even if it did not work out. There were always updates coming in pretty fast from the moment it was laumched to the day it closed.

    SWTOR is just more of polished NGE with all the best bits of SWG removed, leaving a shell of the game. Ever do the Legacy quest series in SWG. The one long boring quest series as all professions do it? SWTOR is just that, but a lot better, but could have been better again still.  There is more reason to play the game after level 90 in SWG than there is in SWTOR once you hit 50. There was more ways to level up in SWG though, you could explore the worlds yurself and take on missions by random NPCs, and / or do the mission terminals which gave you 1 level per day.

     

    I would seriously love to have some of what you are smoking Mr Superniceguy from Anchorhead because that grass in a galaxy far far away must be damn good.

    What is it with SWG vets though, its like putting all the odd kids in the "special" class and getting them to paint with there hands and puting the result in the National Gallery next to a Turner. Thats what they've done with SWG in there minds on that fantastic weed.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

     

    Foot just inserted in your own mouth. Thank you... :)

    And contrary to your accusation. I am no "hater."

     


     

    Since you insisted and kept making absurd claims despite all evidence and reason, I had only two options: you are either doing it intentionally or non-intentionally.

    Seems like I was wrong in my guess and overestimated you...

     

    Pointing out that Aion and Lineage out preform SWTOR on the global market is an absurd claim after backing it up with numbers? Pointing out that SWTOR does have a presence in the Asian Pacific market? Making it a global competitor? I think you need to step back from the PC and stop worrying about being wrong some times. It's ok. You're investing way too much anger in forum posting. Have fun with that.

     

    I love the old chestnut when losing an argument the person winning is emotionally, upset, angry etc.. but in reality they are just deabting points thats the person slinging the mud cannot counter.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by arieste

    I'm also in the camp of TR and Vanguard being the bigger failures.  TOR still sold over a million and as is active.

     

    On the flipside, TR was at least a good game, albeit a financial flop.  Many people remember TR very fondly and would play it again.  I doubt that too many of its former players are going to remember TOR fondly.

     

    And why is that? over expecting? I hope the dissapointment with TOR for many and the resulting schadenfreude from people not being able to reconcile the butthurt feelings when expecteing the greatest game ever (tm) has shown people to not get hyped about a game. I'm waiting for the same thing with GW2 when it also fails to live up to expectations and then can I say its the biggest flop in history? GW2 and TOR are both good games but can never compete with the utopian game many players have in their heads prior to release.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • doho7744doho7744 phoenix, AZPosts: 31Member

    Failure seems to indicate either no longer running or in need of a complete overhaul.  SWtoR does not fall in that category.  Yes its going ftp but its not changing its core gameplay.  Just off the top of my head three that had to do that are (in no particular order) SWG, FF XIV and Tabula Rasa.  The first two either had a complete game overhaul or are discussing it.  And two of them aren't even running anymore even though they started in a much less crowded field.

    You might claim that SWtoR was disappointing in fiscal performance but I don't even know if that is true.

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member


    Originally posted by WhiteLantern
    I've seen several people mention closed down games, so I'll throw out this reminder:  APB
    Yeah that one counts too, it only lasted 1.5 months after launch, but it was re-launched months later.


    Hellgate: London was another fail, it didn't even have a chance to release.

    image
    image

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    I'd say Tabula Rasa over SWTOR but if you just wanted to feel the glory on your sparkle pony, don't let me ruin your parade.

    I agree after UO tabula was supposed to be the next big MMO for Richard but was a complete disaster. At least swtor is playable and has a decent story aspect.

    i agree

    SWTOR disappointed but it wasnt a disaster

     

    disaster mmos:  by devs w good mmo background

    SWG post NGE

    Asherons Call 2

    Tabula Rasa

    Vanguard

     

    all of these mmos had the plug pulled, except Vanguard

    SWG only had the plug pulled as LA thought they had a sure thing with SWTOR.

    SWG was a disaster in 2005, but in the last few years of its life it was far from a disaster. SOE put tonnes of effort into it, from what they were allowed to do with LA "pulling the strings", and it ended up being pretty awesome, but also at least SOE and LA put some effort into the game from the get go, even if it did not work out. There were always updates coming in pretty fast from the moment it was laumched to the day it closed.

    SWTOR is just more of polished NGE with all the best bits of SWG removed, leaving a shell of the game. Ever do the Legacy quest series in SWG. The one long boring quest series as all professions do it? SWTOR is just that, but a lot better, but could have been better again still.  There is more reason to play the game after level 90 in SWG than there is in SWTOR once you hit 50. There was more ways to level up in SWG though, you could explore the worlds yurself and take on missions by random NPCs, and / or do the mission terminals which gave you 1 level per day.

     

    I would seriously love to have some of what you are smoking Mr Superniceguy from Anchorhead because that grass in a galaxy far far away must be damn good.

    What is it with SWG vets though, its like putting all the odd kids in the "special" class and getting them to paint with there hands and puting the result in the National Gallery next to a Turner. Thats what they've done with SWG in there minds on that fantastic weed.

    Excuse me? 

    SWG still managed to maintain adequate populations throughout to 2009, yet SWTOR could not manage it for 6 months, and when they close the servers later in the summer, SWTOR will have less servers than SWG had for its first 6 years. If SWG was a real disaster it would not have lasted into 2007.

    If the game was not going free 2 play the populations would end up being less than SWG by next year, and it still probably will within 2 years now, once people realise how shallow it still is. F2P has just delayed its demise.

    Overall SWG > SWTOR

    If both MMOs were active now, SWG would have more players in it, and most are only playing SWTOR as it is the only Star Wars MMO

    If SWG went F2P, it would end up being the next Minecraft in success. The monthly fee barrier would be removed, and millions of peoples imaginations would have brought SWG to life, and gotten the most out if its sandbox features, as it should have been.

    When SWTOR shuts down I bet no one will bother with a flightless bird of it

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by eyelolled

     

     

     

    If both MMOs were active now, SWG would have more players in it, and most are only playing SWTOR as it is the only Star Wars MMO

    If SWG went F2P, it would end up being the next Minecraft in success. The monthly fee barrier would be removed, and millions of peoples imaginations would have brought SWG to life, and gotten the most out if its sandbox features, as it should have been.

    SWTOR is utter garbage in my opinion but you must be on crack if you think the above is true.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • Insane666Insane666 gdanskPosts: 66Member Uncommon

    Even if not the biggest failure ever, definately the biggest dissapointment, especially for a star wars fan. But if you count in factors such as the biggest budget in any MMO ever combined with one of the biggest IPs ever - then yeah, its the biggest FAIL yuo could imagine in this genre. At least looks like from where im standing.

    Games previously played: AO, AoC, Aion, AoW, Eve, SWTor, WaR, STO, TSW, DCUO, FE, BP, ProjectEntropia, FootballSuperstars!

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member

    K team UK,... You spouted so much bull I'll reply together. You simply can not cut out the numbers for Aion or Lineage from Asia when “discussing” the success of SWTOR on the “global” scale when trying to rank the overall popularity of the game. So they operate in Asian countries where SWTOR isn’t yet available? That does not change the fact that both games are more successful “globally” which is all “I” ever claimed. I don't know what a couple of your buddies are rambling about but it isn't what I claimed. Asians exist you can’t just throw them out of the equation and say only the western world matters when talking MMORPGs as all of them are trying to tap into the market on the “other side of the fence” as soon as possible. Boy, I bet every western game maker wishes people would subtract the Asian market when WOW’s paying subscriber number is quoted but it doesn’t happen for good reason...

     

    It’d be like saying RIFT is now the WOW KIller because they are more popular in Kenya today. It might be true on its face but we all know the WOW Killer claim isn’t true all things considered because the rest of the world is still there. You’re trying to spin the game as more successful than it is by trying to place it in a artificial context more favorable to your desires.

     

    Oh, and just for meanness, Runescape can be played in a browser but it is a client based game and they encourage its use. On the purely western market alone which they do share? It has more players than SWTOR too which still makes SWTOR at least number three by your own reckoning when you consider paying subs. :P That doesn't include Dofud either as it has potentially more paying subs here too...

     

    Quote RS Demographics: 60 percent are from the U.S., 25 percent from the EU, smaller percentages from Australia/New Zealand and Canada.

     

    Oh, it doesn’t count? :P The only thing that counts seems to be what you want to count at the time of posting. It surely does by your own standard as an MMORPG,

  • WarriorNeedsWarriorNeeds Kansas City, KSPosts: 34Member

    Actually, I think APB is the biggest failure to date.  Not only did it shut down, but it forced the whole company (Realtime Worlds) into bankrupcy.  At least EA can still say their company still exists after this.

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