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F2P: You Don't Want This

WarleyWarley Jackson, MIPosts: 376Member Uncommon

You want to know why companies are pushing F2P so hard?  It's not that the F2P model is superior - for the customer.  It's so taht they can combine a subscription model with the F2P, but give players the illusion that they have options.   Sure, you have options -technically- because you don't have to play all the content offered.  In fact, you have even more options after you fork over the monthly subscription; like PAYING EVEN MORE to unlock content.

Here's some truth about SOE, and the other big companies; they're in it to MAKE MONEY,  AS MUCH AS THEY CAN, AT THE LOWEST COST TO THEM THAT THEY CAN.  So, here's the whole reason why they're so heavily shoving F2P down our throats.  Once all games adapt to the business model, only then will you see the true nature of the beast.   Take a moment and play some games like Perfect World (or the plethora of other Asian junk).  Try to level up past 15 or 20 without paying a dime, then watch and see how many options you have for enjoying that game.  That doesn't even get into the worse part about those games;  their world is absolutely dull and lifeless.

You think SWTOR was lifeless, wait until you get a load of the next-generation of F2P MMORPG's.   But, go ahead and allow the viral marketing (paid for forum posts, game site articles, and blog posts/comments) to engineer your thinking that F2P somehow brings more value to the player than a subscription model.    They're salvating at the fact that they'll ultimately get people to fully accept F2P models, and yet, maintain a form of subscription on top of it knowing that people will eventually accept the double dip business model as 'superior'.

Also, enjoy the time when you'll only truly ever be able to compete in future MMORPG's after you bought the $100 swords and $150 armor from the item shop; because F2P brings so much more value and options than subscriptions.

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Comments

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    LoL is f2p. I know it's not an MMO but is the f2p game I have the most exp with. It's not the doom and gloom picture you're painting there.

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  • blognorgblognorg Roseburg, ORPosts: 643Member

    Companies aren't pushing F2P; the people chose it. Most people don't want a sub fee anymore. Companies are merely adapting. And yes, big surprise, companies like to make a profit... all of them... all the time... ever. Who in the right mind wants to lose money?

     

    Free to play can be great. The people will determine the right way to do it, becasue if it's done poorly it won't be successful. Not many people like P2W or heavy resitictions, and companies that employ those models won't make money. F2P gives the power back to the players. Cheap, low quality games with bad payment models won't survive. They have only been able to exist in the past because the AAA market hasn't really reached F2P yet. But once it does, cheap P2W games will be a thing of the past because there will be a better, high-quality alternative.

     

    When games like Firefall, Planetside 2, Dust 514 and GW2 (not tachincally F2P, but still not monthly fee) land, people won't have to sub for a triple-A experience anymore. More companies will follow suit, and eventually all of the cheap games will die off, leaving fewer, but higher-quality games. With the market less saturated, hopefully we'll start seeing some newer ideas come to fruition. Honestly, I'd be surpirsed if Blizzard's new Titan will be sub-based.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    LoL is f2p. I know it's not an MMO but is the f2p game I have the most exp with. It's not the doom and gloom picture you're painting there.

    I've played it for a long time and haven't spent a dime. I can still be competitive and enjoy all the content. F2p is not evil, it just needs to be done right.

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  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Sorry about double post. Using the phone.

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  • WarleyWarley Jackson, MIPosts: 376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    LoL is f2p. I know it's not an MMO but is the f2p game I have the most exp with. It's not the doom and gloom picture you're painting there.

    LoL was originally launched as a P2P.  Wait until games no longer launch as P2P games; you won't have another LoTRO.  LoTRO blows pretty much all MMORPG's that launched as F2P games out of the water; again, because it was released as a P2P game.

    If you like Free Realms you're going to love the F2P future.  If you don't like Free Realms, you're going to hate the F2P future.

  • WarleyWarley Jackson, MIPosts: 376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by blognorg

    Companies aren't pushing F2P; the people chose it. Most people don't want a sub fee anymore. Companies are merely adapting. And yes, big surprise, companies like to make a profit... all of them... all the time... ever. Who in the right mind wants to lose money?

     

    Free to play can be great. The people will determine the right way to do it, becasue if it's done poorly it won't be successful. Not many people like P2W or heavy resitictions, and companies that employ those models won't make money. F2P gives the power back to the players. Cheap, low quality games with bad payment models won't survive. They have only been able to exist in the past because the AAA market hasn't really reached F2P yet. But once it does, cheap P2W games will be a thing of the past because there will be a better, high-quality alternative.

     

    When games like Firefall, Planetside 2, Dust 514 and GW2 (not tachincally F2P, but still not monthly fee) land, people won't have to sub for a triple-A experience anymore. More companies will follow suit, and eventually all of the cheap games will die off, leaving fewer, but higher-quality games. With the market less saturated, hopefully we'll start seeing some newer ideas come to fruition. Honestly, I'd be surpirsed if Blizzard's new Titan will be sub-based.

    With that, comes the double or triple amount of money you have to pay to compete compared to a subscription model (that you pay around $0.02 an hour for, without paying another dime for the rest of the content).

     

  • WarleyWarley Jackson, MIPosts: 376Member Uncommon

    Plus, people won't decide, anything.  Companies will just use deceptive marketing (paid forum posters, etc), and push it down our throats how that $100 sword, $20 dungeon, or $5 xp potion are of great value.  It's called nickle & diming, but making you think that you're getting the last laugh because of the 'high value' you seen these items have by forum posters that mostly consist of blind sheep or paid shills.

  • blognorgblognorg Roseburg, ORPosts: 643Member
    Originally posted by Warley
    Originally posted by blognorg

    Companies aren't pushing F2P; the people chose it. Most people don't want a sub fee anymore. Companies are merely adapting. And yes, big surprise, companies like to make a profit... all of them... all the time... ever. Who in the right mind wants to lose money?

     

    Free to play can be great. The people will determine the right way to do it, becasue if it's done poorly it won't be successful. Not many people like P2W or heavy resitictions, and companies that employ those models won't make money. F2P gives the power back to the players. Cheap, low quality games with bad payment models won't survive. They have only been able to exist in the past because the AAA market hasn't really reached F2P yet. But once it does, cheap P2W games will be a thing of the past because there will be a better, high-quality alternative.

     

    When games like Firefall, Planetside 2, Dust 514 and GW2 (not tachincally F2P, but still not monthly fee) land, people won't have to sub for a triple-A experience anymore. More companies will follow suit, and eventually all of the cheap games will die off, leaving fewer, but higher-quality games. With the market less saturated, hopefully we'll start seeing some newer ideas come to fruition. Honestly, I'd be surpirsed if Blizzard's new Titan will be sub-based.

    With that, comes the double or triple amount of money you have to pay to compete compared to a subscription model (that you pay around $0.02 an hour for, without paying another dime for the rest of the content).

     

    None of the games I listed are P2W. It has such a neagative stigma that no company would have a P2W model. Every interview I see about a new game stresses over and over that you can't pay for power. No, that's not the future of any successful game, sorry.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Warley

    You want to know why companies are pushing F2P so hard?  It's not that the F2P model is superior - for the customer.  It's so taht they can combine a subscription model with the F2P, but give players the illusion that they have options.   Sure, you have options -technically- because you don't have to play all the content offered.  In fact, you have even more options after you fork over the monthly subscription; like PAYING EVEN MORE to unlock content.

    Here's some truth about SOE, and the other big companies; they're in it to MAKE MONEY,  AS MUCH AS THEY CAN, AT THE LOWEST COST TO THEM THAT THEY CAN.  So, here's the whole reason why they're so heavily shoving F2P down our throats.  Once all games adapt to the business model, only then will you see the true nature of the beast.   Take a moment and play some games like Perfect World (or the plethora of other Asian junk).  Try to level up past 15 or 20 without paying a dime, then watch and see how many options you have for enjoying that game.  That doesn't even get into the worse part about those games;  their world is absolutely dull and lifeless.

    You think SWTOR was lifeless, wait until you get a load of the next-generation of F2P MMORPG's.   But, go ahead and allow the viral marketing (paid for forum posts, game site articles, and blog posts/comments) to engineer your thinking that F2P somehow brings more value to the player than a subscription model.    They're salvating at the fact that they'll ultimately get people to fully accept F2P models, and yet, maintain a form of subscription on top of it knowing that people will eventually accept the double dip business model as 'superior'.

    Also, enjoy the time when you'll only truly ever be able to compete in future MMORPG's after you bought the $100 swords and $150 armor from the item shop; because F2P brings so much more value and options than subscriptions.

    It's like a big steamy bowl of talking point soup made from a rich base of misinformation and rage.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • chakalakachakalaka Missoula, MTPosts: 287Member Uncommon

    I really don't see the problem either way... the people who are willing to pay the average of $15 a month don't really think about it too often because, I mean look at it this way, going to a movie nowadays just with yourself costs around $10-$15. And that's for one nights entertainment. Hell I don't have any money but I know that when I log into say TSW for about 4-8 hours a day (more on the weekends) I know I'm getting my monies worth. Please, it doesn't matter.

  • KelvrekKelvrek Indianapolis, INPosts: 86Member

    I've played Lotro, CoH, STO, and WoT as Freemium games, and I haven't seen where I could buy an all-powerful weapon or armor like you describe.  I have spent less money on Freemium games than I did on sub games, so I think it is a deal for my style of play.  Most casual gamers make out better with Freemium games, and more active players can still sub and have the same content they have in sub games.  The switch to Freemium has reinvigorated several flagging games.  I see it as a natural part of an MMO's life cycle:  P2P at launch for early adapters.  These players buy the boxes and pay subs to recoup dev costs.  When the pop falls, retool as Freemium to draw in new players or perhaps bring back old players who left.  The time as a Freemium game is almost pure profit.  When that fails, shut down the servers and concentrate on other product lines.  It's no big deal.  Just business.  No one is being forced to spend money on games.  If you don't like the products or think they want too much money for it, then spend your hard-earned dollars where you feel you will get the most value.  Complaining about life may make you feel better, but it is highly unlikely to change anything.  By the way, I don't think P2P will ever totally disappear.  Lots of people like that system of payment, and I'm sure there will be plenty of companies willing to serve that part of the population.

  • BigRock411BigRock411 Barrington, ILPosts: 299Member
    Originally posted by Kelvrek

    I've played Lotro, CoH, STO, and WoT as Freemium games, and I haven't seen where I could buy an all-powerful weapon or armor like you describe.  I have spent less money on Freemium games than I did on sub games, so I think it is a deal for my style of play.  Most casual gamers make out better with Freemium games, and more active players can still sub and have the same content they have in sub games.  The switch to Freemium has reinvigorated several flagging games.  I see it as a natural part of an MMO's life cycle:  P2P at launch for early adapters.  These players buy the boxes and pay subs to recoup dev costs.  When the pop falls, retool as Freemium to draw in new players or perhaps bring back old players who left.  The time as a Freemium game is almost pure profit.  When that fails, shut down the servers and concentrate on other product lines.  It's no big deal.  Just business.  No one is being forced to spend money on games.  If you don't like the products or think they want too much money for it, then spend your hard-earned dollars where you feel you will get the most value.  Complaining about life may make you feel better, but it is highly unlikely to change anything.  By the way, I don't think P2P will ever totally disappear.  Lots of people like that system of payment, and I'm sure there will be plenty of companies willing to serve that part of the population.

    Because those were p2p games by design.  They had to shoe horn in the f2p model by adding, like STO crap like lock boxes where you need to pay for a key to open it and get the loot.

    All the real f2p games...games where the entire content is free, and are designed as such...either have programmed in fustrations that the cash shop resolves or straight up advantages. 

    The joke with f2p games is that its cheap to level up but far more expensive at endgame than a p2p game is.  They want F2P because they CAN make more money, its a sucker game...they get you to compete with some guy who spends $1000+ and its a race to see who spends the most to stay on top...thats the dream envisioned when they make a f2p game...how can we get the competative players to fight with their wallets for supremacy....

    F2P is fine if you dont like endgame or dont care to compete, but if you want a level play field, a game without programmed fustrations and have access to it all just like everyone else, nothing beats a high quality p2p game...especially long term.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BigRock411
    Originally posted by Kelvrek

    I've played Lotro, CoH, STO, and WoT as Freemium games, and I haven't seen where I could buy an all-powerful weapon or armor like you describe.  I have spent less money on Freemium games than I did on sub games, so I think it is a deal for my style of play.  Most casual gamers make out better with Freemium games, and more active players can still sub and have the same content they have in sub games.  The switch to Freemium has reinvigorated several flagging games.  I see it as a natural part of an MMO's life cycle:  P2P at launch for early adapters.  These players buy the boxes and pay subs to recoup dev costs.  When the pop falls, retool as Freemium to draw in new players or perhaps bring back old players who left.  The time as a Freemium game is almost pure profit.  When that fails, shut down the servers and concentrate on other product lines.  It's no big deal.  Just business.  No one is being forced to spend money on games.  If you don't like the products or think they want too much money for it, then spend your hard-earned dollars where you feel you will get the most value.  Complaining about life may make you feel better, but it is highly unlikely to change anything.  By the way, I don't think P2P will ever totally disappear.  Lots of people like that system of payment, and I'm sure there will be plenty of companies willing to serve that part of the population.

    Because those were p2p games by design.  They had to shoe horn in the f2p model by adding, like STO crap like lock boxes where you need to pay for a key to open it and get the loot.

    All the real f2p games...games where the entire content is free, and are designed as such...either have programmed in fustrations that the cash shop resolves or straight up advantages. 

    The joke with f2p games is that its cheap to level up but far more expensive at endgame than a p2p game is.  They want F2P because they CAN make more money, its a sucker game...they get you to compete with some guy who spends $1000+ and its a race to see who spends the most to stay on top...thats the dream envisioned when they make a f2p game...how can we get the competative players to fight with their wallets for supremacy....

    F2P is fine if you dont like endgame or dont care to compete, but if you want a level play field, a game without programmed fustrations and have access to it all just like everyone else, nothing beats a high quality p2p game...especially long term.

    C9, Dragon Nest, DFO, Vindictus, Hunter Blade, Eden Eternal, Cabal, FlyFF, Grand Fantasia, Rusty Hearts...all games launched as F2P that I've played to endgame without ever spending a dime, except for DN where I bought a costume just because I enjoyed the game that much. By the time I bought it I'd been playing it consistantly for 4 months, full costume was $20. 

    There are plenty others, I just either got bored of them before endgame or they're not actually launched, yet. 

    There are some F2P games that are P2W. But what some games do doesn't mean all games will do it, too. That should go without saying.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    I played some prety horrible cash shop game.  Paid like 100$ a month.  But for games such as LOTRO, DDO, etc, you have to pay more than 15$ a month to compete?  I think that's my question.  Since the people kind of paid a sub already, I'm pretty surprise they need to pay more.

  • blognorgblognorg Roseburg, ORPosts: 643Member


    Originally posted by Warley Plus, people won't decide, anything.  Companies will just use deceptive marketing (paid forum posters, etc), and push it down our throats how that $100 sword, $20 dungeon, or $5 xp potion are of great value.  It's called nickle & diming, but making you think that you're getting the last laugh because of the 'high value' you seen these items have by forum posters that mostly consist of blind sheep or paid shills.

    This is highly unlikely. P2W has a very negative association; no AAA game company would shoot themselves in the foot like that. As I mentioned, pretty much all the devs of upcoming games have made explicit mention of the cash shops not being P2W.


    Neverwinter

    RaiderZ

    Firefall

    Planetside 2

    It's possible that they could be lying, but it's clear that they're aware that P2W is bad. If they launch as a P2W, then they'll get eaten alive. I think the stigma of old F2P games needs to die... and it is to a degree. I used to be fairly anti-F2P, but I started noticing a change in the trend. I think that the model will improve end become good for players and developers alike.

  • WarleyWarley Jackson, MIPosts: 376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by blognorg

     


    Originally posted by Warley Plus, people won't decide, anything.  Companies will just use deceptive marketing (paid forum posters, etc), and push it down our throats how that $100 sword, $20 dungeon, or $5 xp potion are of great value.  It's called nickle & diming, but making you think that you're getting the last laugh because of the 'high value' you seen these items have by forum posters that mostly consist of blind sheep or paid shills.

     

    This is highly unlikely. P2W has a very negative association; no AAA game company would shoot themselves in the foot like that. As I mentioned, pretty much all the devs of upcoming games have made explicit mention of the cash shops not being P2W.


    Neverwinter

    RaiderZ

    Firefall

    Planetside 2

    It's possible that they could be lying, but it's clear that they're aware that P2W is bad. If they launch as a P2W, then they'll get eaten alive. I think the stigma of old F2P games needs to die... and it is to a degree. I used to be fairly anti-F2P, but I started noticing a change in the trend. I think that the model will improve end become good for players and developers alike.

    For now...  once enough people 'accept f2p', then it becomes 'some advantage', then 'bigger advantage', and before we know it, you have to spend 100+ a month just to compete.  IT WILL HAPPEN.  That's the natural progression based upon the 'need' of corporations to 'MAKE MORE MONEY'.

  • FreyasFreyas Seattle, WAPosts: 32Member
    Originally posted by Warley
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    LoL is f2p. I know it's not an MMO but is the f2p game I have the most exp with. It's not the doom and gloom picture you're painting there.

    LoL was originally launched as a P2P.  Wait until games no longer launch as P2P games; you won't have another LoTRO.  LoTRO blows pretty much all MMORPG's that launched as F2P games out of the water; again, because it was released as a P2P game.

    If you like Free Realms you're going to love the F2P future.  If you don't like Free Realms, you're going to hate the F2P future.

    This is incorrect- LoL has always been F2P, which is one of the reasons it became the massive hit that it is.  LoL's success with it's non P2W microtransaction model also makes me wonder why everyone always assumes that new F2P games will model their pay structure around small low-quality asian games- why would any self-respecting developer ignore the biggest, most successful F2P game and base their revenue stream and jobs by basing their game on low-quality asian knock-offs instead?

    The P2W low-quality MMO's have kept afloat because they don't have any quality competition in the F2P space.  Since quality MMO's take a long time to make, it's taken some time for companies to identify the demand and make a high-quality F2P MMO without offensive microtransactions, but we're seeing a lot of games coming up that look like they may fill this niche.

  • blognorgblognorg Roseburg, ORPosts: 643Member
    Originally posted by Warley
    Originally posted by blognorg

     


    Originally posted by Warley Plus, people won't decide, anything.  Companies will just use deceptive marketing (paid forum posters, etc), and push it down our throats how that $100 sword, $20 dungeon, or $5 xp potion are of great value.  It's called nickle & diming, but making you think that you're getting the last laugh because of the 'high value' you seen these items have by forum posters that mostly consist of blind sheep or paid shills.

     

    This is highly unlikely. P2W has a very negative association; no AAA game company would shoot themselves in the foot like that. As I mentioned, pretty much all the devs of upcoming games have made explicit mention of the cash shops not being P2W.


    Neverwinter

    RaiderZ

    Firefall

    Planetside 2

    It's possible that they could be lying, but it's clear that they're aware that P2W is bad. If they launch as a P2W, then they'll get eaten alive. I think the stigma of old F2P games needs to die... and it is to a degree. I used to be fairly anti-F2P, but I started noticing a change in the trend. I think that the model will improve end become good for players and developers alike.

    For now...  once enough people 'accept f2p', then it becomes 'some advantage', then 'bigger advantage', and before we know it, you have to spend 100+ a month just to compete.  IT WILL HAPPEN.  That's the natural progression based upon the 'need' of corporations to 'MAKE MORE MONEY'.

    Damn, dude. Take your foil hat off. I get the impression that you hang around public places with a sign that reads "The end is nigh" in your spare time. You act as though it's some kind of consipiracy. I doubt that at any point players will look upon P2W fondly. No one likes to feel like they're getting ripped off. The trend shows that developers are in tune with what gamers hate. Going against that grain will only lose them money. Like I said, it's good for the developers and the players. 

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon

    Well, I don't like to brag, but I've read alot of these types of threads, AND I've read the front page of the Weekly World News on occasion when I'm getting groceries or a slurpee.  The truth of the matter, is that F2P and all the conspiracies are true. Kind of. You see it's the aliens that are instigating the F2P revolution so they can take power away from companies that just want to charge their fee and earn their dollar. The aliens, using F2P games, are able to send us subliminal messages while we play these games and nobody can do anything about it because it's fricken aliens man!  Anyhow, these messages are usually pretty tame. Eat Doritos, drink more cola, spicy food is your friend, that sort of thing. They also want you to stay up sooo late that you pass out cold when you fall asleep. It's seems silly until you put it all together!  And thats when it hits you so hard it blows your mind! Aliens want you to eat Doritos, and drink cola because.....                              wait for it.....                              they want to turn us into noxious gas machines!!!!  Thats right man! Oh wow! I told you it would blow your mind!!!  See the aliens can't breathe oxygen like we can. No way. They need a different chemical coctail in the atmosphere for them to breathe. So they make us eat all sorts of gassy foods to cause us to change the atmosphere!!! BOOM!  I know, I know. Your mind is blown. But wait, check this out. The reason that games keep us up for so long, so that we fall asleep like totally sound, is so they can test our wind without us waking up! Sick right! I know!!!  I'll never sleep on my stomach after eating nachos again!!

     

    So anyhow dudes, and dudettes for the more feminine persuasion. Don't play F2P games.              

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • NightgroperNightgroper Aunt Em''s, NEPosts: 76Member

    Can someone of sound mind just explain to me why there seems to be this rift starting between those who will play P2P and those who enjoy F2P? Can't we both have cake and eat it?

    I myself enjoy F2P since I started checking them out, and then dropping most like a rock after finding that almost all were grindy, horrible worlds where there was nothing but monsters at every corner! I'm looking at you Flyff and Rappelz.

     

    I don't see a problem with P2P, or F2P. I do with P2W, but that's something else. I really enjoyed F2P, back before that thing called youtube, you young people use. It allowed someone to ttry a game without having to commit. I'll admit it, I bought Tabula Rasa. I know the shame. But once I had bought it, and it was P2P, I felt I had to play to get my money out of it. That's not playing a game. That's a chore, and I actually enjoyed playing it for a bit.

     

    And yes the item mall is there to make them their money back, in fact I see it as more of a donation button. If you enjoyed the game quite a bit donate some money.

    F2P is not the end of the world, and guess what? It's been around almost as long as P2P. It's almost got a seesaw effect going when you think about it. There was more P2P before, and as quality waned the audience turned to F2P. Now if F2P wanes they may go back to P2P for a better quality. Who knows?

    The more I'm around the forums on this site, the more bitter I become.

  • xdemonhunterxdemonhunter You dont need to knowPosts: 31Member
    Originally posted by blognorg

     


    Originally posted by Warley Plus, people won't decide, anything.  Companies will just use deceptive marketing (paid forum posters, etc), and push it down our throats how that $100 sword, $20 dungeon, or $5 xp potion are of great value.  It's called nickle & diming, but making you think that you're getting the last laugh because of the 'high value' you seen these items have by forum posters that mostly consist of blind sheep or paid shills.

     

    This is highly unlikely. P2W has a very negative association; no AAA game company would shoot themselves in the foot like that. As I mentioned, pretty much all the devs of upcoming games have made explicit mention of the cash shops not being P2W.


    Neverwinter

    RaiderZ

    Firefall

    Planetside 2

    It's possible that they could be lying, but it's clear that they're aware that P2W is bad. If they launch as a P2W, then they'll get eaten alive. I think the stigma of old F2P games needs to die... and it is to a degree. I used to be fairly anti-F2P, but I started noticing a change in the trend. I think that the model will improve end become good for players and developers alike.

    Diablo 3 is an AAA game even if it is not an MMORPG and it is pay to win in the sense that someone that is willing to spend lets say 1000$ can afford the best available gear from the get go while a player that cant or wont pay will have to farm for ages for the same gear.

    Now about companyes explicit mentioning that cash shop is not P2W, so what? No company on their right mind would ever say up front they are doing such things, games that do provide the P2W model do not advertise (looking at u Perfect World and Fiesta).

    I see people worried about the free to play trend because there are plenty of bad executions of the model and they are worried that if the companys find it more profitable they are very likely to choose this bussness model and provide a service similar to the bad ones around.

    I do believe it is possible to make a good free to play game that is balanced but the issue i have is that majority of the player base are dumb as a door and companys are greedy.The combination of those 2 things are enought to turn a sucessfull well balanced free to play game into a pay to win.After all the company can add new items to the cash shop at any given time so even if it starts fine it can change at any given time and there are plenty of examples of P2W games out there that are doing pretty well meaning there are enought players willing to fork the money to win no matter what.Just saying so people can keep this in mind, once u had spent months playing a game capping, farming gear, making friends and a few items ur not happy with are added to the cash shop it is harder to leave then when ur about to start playing and u dislike the stuff they are selling.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member

    there are 2 model that worked in america thus far,wow model and guildwars 2 model!ignore the wow greed about going p2p with cash shop ,this isnt the futur !what blizzard does can probablyt only be done by wow!the reason why f2p is so popular is because in asia if there hadnt been f2p there would not be gaming in asia!the reason it is catching on elsewhere is because yes they lose money with a lot of costumer but the more player there is the higher their margin is so the come up on top in the long run!

    this being said even there if the game is lame it will still have no player!

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,731Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Warley

    LoL was originally launched as a P2P. 

    Wrong.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Like some have mentioned, lol has never been p2p. To be honest, it doesn't really matter it it started f2p or not. My point still stands, lol is a good example of f2p done right.

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  • Got_Game_TVGot_Game_TV Mayfield Heights, OHPosts: 262Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Well, I don't like to brag, but I've read alot of these types of threads, AND I've read the front page of the Weekly World News on occasion when I'm getting groceries or a slurpee.  The truth of the matter, is that F2P and all the conspiracies are true. Kind of. You see it's the aliens that are instigating the F2P revolution so they can take power away from companies that just want to charge their fee and earn their dollar. The aliens, using F2P games, are able to send us subliminal messages while we play these games and nobody can do anything about it because it's fricken aliens man!  Anyhow, these messages are usually pretty tame. Eat Doritos, drink more cola, spicy food is your friend, that sort of thing. They also want you to stay up sooo late that you pass out cold when you fall asleep. It's seems silly until you put it all together!  And thats when it hits you so hard it blows your mind! Aliens want you to eat Doritos, and drink cola because.....                              wait for it.....                              they want to turn us into noxious gas machines!!!!  Thats right man! Oh wow! I told you it would blow your mind!!!  See the aliens can't breathe oxygen like we can. No way. They need a different chemical coctail in the atmosphere for them to breathe. So they make us eat all sorts of gassy foods to cause us to change the atmosphere!!! BOOM!  I know, I know. Your mind is blown. But wait, check this out. The reason that games keep us up for so long, so that we fall asleep like totally sound, is so they can test our wind without us waking up! Sick right! I know!!!  I'll never sleep on my stomach after eating nachos again!!

     

    So anyhow dudes, and dudettes for the more feminine persuasion. Don't play F2P games.              


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