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Read my design doc! :)

BraveLion82BraveLion82 Las Cruces, NMPosts: 7Member Uncommon

*sigh* I'm probably going to get eaten alive, but here goes nothing. Like many people I like to try to envision my "perfect mmo," and when I get bored I work on a sort of design doc for it.. granted there's a ton of spelling mistakes, and doesn't look nearly professional enough, but it's also (for the most part) just for me.

Anyway, I guess I just wanted to hear thoughts, criticisms, and suggestions. Also, it's by no means complete. Not even close. Here's the link   

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=10zqZAdMyFfI0ub2hqzpqozSccwagzHenzSgruGeQGZU

 

The red txt are some of my younger brother's suggestions. Otherwise it's all my writing. It's fairly scatterbrained at the moment. Also I should say while I would *love* to make this game, I probably never will. I lack both the talent, and the money for such an undertaking. So, if any of you do have the talent and money, and want to steal some or all of it, knock yourself out.

Comments

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 6,211Member Uncommon

    Atleast I would appreciate more description on the game itself and how it plays. If you leave that parts out should I expect they work the same way as in a "standard" 3D MMO? Or are we playing with high concepts still?

    Also I'd leave out any statements like "meaningful skill choices". It should be the reader's responsibility to judge whether they are meaninful or not, I think.

    Work on it. It makes you appreciate game designers more even if it'll end up in a drawer. I do it myself.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 326Member Uncommon

    since there aren't many public Detailed Design Docs out there Ill give you a template that my students use which is derrived from multiple sources, bioware, EA, radical, Relic etc.  Message me your email and I'll gladly send you full examples which average around 90 pages.  This is the average for a fully fleshed out design doc based on a single player game.  If I can find the MMO version which I remember is around 200 + pages.

  • BraveLion82BraveLion82 Las Cruces, NMPosts: 7Member Uncommon

    Thanks for the suggestions. Yeah I realize it's far, far, far from being complete. A real design doc is about the size of a small novel. :P It's just something I work on when I get bored. That said, I'll certainly take the suggestions in mind and do a few revisions here and there, and of course add more to it.

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 326Member Uncommon

    for those that have message me for a design doc.  I am waiting on a fellow instuctor to send some of his best examples to me and when he does I will send it your way.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,004Member Uncommon

    I want to play a mmorpg like game of throne, or sango.  Where it's a big land divide by several nation at war with each other.  The land will divide into more nation or unite into one nation due to winning war or some random event.

    Eventually all the nation will be united into one nation.  And some random event occurs to get the king killed and the world start to divide up again etc etc.

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 326Member Uncommon

    Here it is guys some documents examples and fully created ones from all sorts of genres.   Most of these student's have graduated and are working in the industry as designers.   I will keep this link up for 1 week and after that it'll be taken down.   The file is a 7zip file with multiple word docs in it.

    http://www.mediafire.com/?66o3dn23twbmnjo

    Enjoy it while it lasts.

  • CyclopsSlayerCyclopsSlayer Minneapolis, MNPosts: 532Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laross
    Here it is guys some documents examples and fully created ones from all sorts of genres.   Most of these student's have graduated and are working in the industry as designers.   I will keep this link up for 1 week and after that it'll be taken down.   The file is a 7zip file with multiple word docs in it. http://www.mediafire.com/?66o3dn23twbmnjo Enjoy it while it lasts.

    Thanks for providing these! Something to throw at people the next time I hear they have a "great idea for a new game". I used to assist development, mostly test, of miniature game rules, board games and PnP RPG game rules and modules for Adventure Games (Dave Arneson's after TSR producing Harpoon and Brigadier) as well as Tekumel Games. (MAR Barker's house organ for his 'World of Tekumel')

    At the time we were lucky to see something even a fraction as well laid out. ie. One game arrived "Ready to Test" in a box of scribbled on napkins and placemats, several spiral notebooks and a typed cover letter. Not even a clue of a guide as to how it was all supposed to fit together... /cry

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 326Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CyclopsSlay
    Originally posted by Laross
    Here it is guys some documents examples and fully created ones from all sorts of genres.   Most of these student's have graduated and are working in the industry as designers.   I will keep this link up for 1 week and after that it'll be taken down.   The file is a 7zip file with multiple word docs in it. http://www.mediafire.com/?66o3dn23twbmnjo Enjoy it while it lasts.

    Thanks for providing these! Something to throw at people the next time I hear they have a "great idea for a new game". I used to assist development, mostly test, of miniature game rules, board games and PnP RPG game rules and modules for Adventure Games (Dave Arneson's after TSR producing Harpoon and Brigadier) as well as Tekumel Games. (MAR Barker's house organ for his 'World of Tekumel')

    At the time we were lucky to see something even a fraction as well laid out. ie. One game arrived "Ready to Test" in a box of scribbled on napkins and placemats, several spiral notebooks and a typed cover letter. Not even a clue of a guide as to how it was all supposed to fit together... /cry

    Ouch very harsh, these documents started in poor form as well and were developed over a 7 weeks, 1 full class and the rest on their own time. 

  • AxehiltAxehilt Posts: 10,299Member Rare

    "Potential permadeath" sounds like with a little polish it may be close to achieving the design goal.

    "Meaningful skill choices" doesn't, though, as there's still nothing preventing me from being an Axe-using healer in full plate who can cast a fireball or shoot a bow when range combat is needed.  What you need is a system where you strongly constrain the skills which the player is capable of using and/or improving.  Some examples:

    • Out of the hundreds of skills in the game, you can slot only 8 of them at one time.  These are the only skills which affect your character or can be used, and the only skills which may be improved.  Gaining access to a new skill at Skill Level 1 might (or might not) require visiting a trainer.  Skills can be reslotted while out of combat, with a slight delay.
    • Some skills are in tension with each other.  Every point earned in your highest skills reduces the cap (and potentially the current skill level) of opposing skills.  So I can hit 10/100 Axes with no penalty, but every point above 10 reduces the caps of all my Magic-related skills by 1.  This means at 100/100 Axes my cap for Healing or Destruction magic will be 10 (and if I had 15/100 destruction magic it would actually be reduced to 10/10 destruction magic.)
    There are a lot of other ways to swing this, but without some hard constraints you won't actually solve the problem.  In your proposed system it just sounds like it'll take a slightly longer time to cap out all skills, but I'll still be that typical watered down hybrid which characterizes most skill-use advancement systems.
     
    Meaningful skill choices also starts to ring hollow when you start to toss in world PVP (zerging) in a RPG (progression) with "lucky hits" that "can and will happen" (luck).  All of these are non-skill factors which dilute the purity of PVP, therefore causing player decisions to be less meaningful.  Same goes for PVE in the case of luck being a strong factor.  In most MMORPGs luck's impact on a battle is pretty minimal.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 6,026Administrator Uncommon

    Moved to dev corner!

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • AxehiltAxehilt Posts: 10,299Member Rare
    Originally posted by MikeB
    Moved to dev corner!

    Admin used Stifle Conversation.

    It's super effective!

    (Sorry for the critique, it's just that often when I see threads moved, (or shutdown due to duplicate topic, or locked due to switching topic mid-thread) it seems to kill conversation; and conversation is kinda the point of these boards isn't it?)

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • BraveLion82BraveLion82 Las Cruces, NMPosts: 7Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    "Potential permadeath" sounds like with a little polish it may be close to achieving the design goal. "Meaningful skill choices" doesn't, though, as there's still nothing preventing me from being an Axe-using healer in full plate who can cast a fireball or shoot a bow when range combat is needed.  What you need is a system where you strongly constrain the skills which the player is capable of using and/or improving.  Some examples: Out of the hundreds of skills in the game, you can slot only 8 of them at one time.  These are the only skills which affect your character or can be used, and the only skills which may be improved.  Gaining access to a new skill at Skill Level 1 might (or might not) require visiting a trainer.  Skills can be reslotted while out of combat, with a slight delay. Some skills are in tension with each other.  Every point earned in your highest skills reduces the cap (and potentially the current skill level) of opposing skills.  So I can hit 10/100 Axes with no penalty, but every point above 10 reduces the caps of all my Magic-related skills by 1.  This means at 100/100 Axes my cap for Healing or Destruction magic will be 10 (and if I had 15/100 destruction magic it would actually be reduced to 10/10 destruction magic.) There are a lot of other ways to swing this, but without some hard constraints you won't actually solve the problem.  In your proposed system it just sounds like it'll take a slightly longer time to cap out all skills, but I'll still be that typical watered down hybrid which characterizes most skill-use advancement systems.   Meaningful skill choices also starts to ring hollow when you start to toss in world PVP (zerging) in a RPG (progression) with "lucky hits" that "can and will happen" (luck).  All of these are non-skill factors which dilute the purity of PVP, therefore causing player decisions to be less meaningful.  Same goes for PVE in the case of luck being a strong factor.  In most MMORPGs luck's impact on a battle is pretty minimal.

    Not to necro a post, but I just saw this today.. I don't check my post often. Here's my (somewhat) thought out way to handle this.

    1. Break all skills into spheres. Combat, Magic, Crafting. I could probablly even break them down more.

    2. Game has levels. Max level is 60. Spheres level up independantly, your level being the sum of all three spheres. Exampe: Combat 20,  Magic 20,  Crafting 20 is a max level character.

    3. Give all skills a formula tied to stats. Not unlike Asheron's Call. The difference being is that rather then this formula determining skill value, it determines skill cap. So for example Axe skill cap = Strength + Coordination / 2. My warrior has a strength of 30 and a coordination of 30 thus his Axe skill cap is 30. Note that stats only affect caps. If I always used swords then my axe skill would be 0/30

    4. When you level up a sphere you're given 5 points to spend of caps within that sphere. For example I go out and slay some baddies with an axe. My axe skill is now 10/30. I level my combat sphere, put all points into axe. I'm now 10/35. I find an axe of +5 strength. Now I'm sitting at an axe skill of 10/37 (I dropped the .5)

    I think that's a pretty elegant way to address it, as it encourages specialization. I mean you could in essence max out your character in all skills, but some of your caps are going to be lower then someone else who specialized. This way you could even put in items.. Like Uber Wizard robe, that requires a Robe skill of 120, which you're not going to reach unless you specialized in robes (magic sphere)

    It also deals with one of my peeves about all races, all classes. I like the idea of all races being able to be all roles, but I think its stupid to expect them to be equally good at them. A dwarf fighter should be better then a halfling fighter. A halfing should be a better rogue then a dwarf. Although you can also argue they'll just be a different kinda rogue. Dwarf being a little more "tanky" Anyway, that's how I'd do it.

    P.S. all numbers are completely made up, just to demonstrate the theory.

    EDIT: Just want to add that I'd also put in stat minimums. So you'll never have a skill cap of 0. All players will be able to be at least mediocre in everything. So maybe a minimum of 20 (just throwing out a random number) so your skills (assuming they use similar formulas) are going to all be at least 0/20.

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