I guess i´ll be back someday when it goes FTP so i can fihish leveling my main left at lvl 47....
I was bored before reaching lvl cap..
I guess 3 more lvls won´t be that painfull without having to pay a sub again....
lol
you lasted longer than me, i got two toons to 30 within my initial, included 30 game time, and i got too bored to pay for one month. it's a shame because i really wanted swtor to be good.
I hope this is a serious wake up call to anyone in the industry. People voted with their wallets and it was a resounding "No."
I very much doubt any other sub based game will survive sanbox, sandpark, themepark, themebox this is the market now people don't want to deal with subs and did not John Smedly predict that SW:TOR was going to be the last major sub based game? I feel they knew this and just cashed in on the box and 6 month subs already knowing they would have this as backup it has nothing to do with the perceived quality of the game.
It has everything to do with the quality of the game.
No it doesn't this is where the market is going and I'll be amazed if TESO doesn't launch as a freemium game and you can quote me on that. GW2 will have the same trajectory of players, loads at launch not so many 6 monthys later but it will not be because of its quality.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Expected and predicted, long time ago, by us so called "doomsayers".
Even a blind man will eventually hit a bullseye, enjoy your "I told you so" moment even though its a hollow one.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
You are 100% right, the reason this game is gonig F2p is that it took NO CHANCES, decided that voice acting and non MMORPG elements like a linear single player story and dumbed down mechanics of established mmos would attract people.
Did this game offer choice. NO, Talents were so rigid, classes and gameplay was rigid and uninspired. the worlds were lifeless and stale. No one wants to pay 15$ a month for that.
You are 100% right, the reason this game is gonig F2p is that it took NO CHANCES, decided that voice acting and non MMORPG elements like a linear single player story and dumbed down mechanics of established mmos would attract people.
Did this game offer choice. NO, Talents were so rigid, classes and gameplay was rigid and uninspired. the worlds were lifeless and stale. No one wants to pay 15$ a month for that.
ALL MMO's are going to take this road so the fake jubilation of the "real MMO players" around here will be short lived. And NO Arenanet did not start this trend. You have to thank the visionaries at Gpotato and other F2P comapanies for this one, OH! the irony of all those F2P is evil threads, great entertainment though.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
SWTOR didnt make a mistake by not embracing the F2P model from the start. F2P is only a market direction for older and failed games. WOW still has the traditional subscription model. Most AAA games launch with a subscription model and we buy those games knowing that . when the games don't deliver whats promised they go F2P after a drop in subscribers. So Bioware is just lying by sayving hindsight is 20/20.
my personal preference is a subscription based business model.
Can anyone dig up that interview of the leader of the Bioware team saying basically "WoW is the most successful MMO so doing anything except copy WoW is dumb and will fail"?
With money of SWTOR budget, it would be indeed dumb. Your point?
Point = copying WoW was dumb and made the game fail.
About time. Was waiting for this. I subbed for three months day 1. Stopped playing in January. Never renewed. Game was fun but not worth the sub. Will definitely go back and finish my Jedi and probably the other 7 stories.
F2P model is the best (at least for me). Allows me to play the game and if I really like it I support it through the CS. I dont believe in P2W because no one can 'win' over my experience. If you dont have to pay to play the game, cant really complain about MT. At the end of the day its now a choice to pay as opposed to a given and Ill take that anyday.
Considering how fast this is going to adopt a f2p model(less than a year) am wondering when they started designing said model or even if they had it ready at launch?
Originally posted by Karahandras Considering how fast this is going to adopt a f2p model(less than a year) am wondering when they started designing said model or even if they had it ready at launch?
Would you expect any reasonable business to release new product and not be be ready for many "if" that may come?
When this game release I was the ONLY reviewer that came out and said this game was sub par. Every other review location gave it rave reviews, called is the seocond coming. However I went a step further and stated that in less than a year this game would go F2P.
I was called crazy, I was called buts, I was told I was an idiot. Well today I stand proudly by my original review of this game and do not back pedal like so many in this industry are doing. The difference was I had the balls to call it like I saw it, not hide from the mighty EA.
Maybe you should quite reviewing then if according to you F2P means game is subpar. Was LOTRO subpar too? yes SWTOR could be average for variety fo reason but i can't help but wonder why people associtae F2P model with failure?
According to recent reports SWTOR still has 500K players, LOTRO had similar population when it decided to go F2P. I don't understand your logic here really.
F2P isn't NECCESSARLY the sign of a subpar/failed game...if the game is designed with the INTENTION that it support that business model. It is the sign of a subpar/failed game when you need to scramble to do that as a "Plan B" because you are failing to meet the numbers you need to JUSTIFY your investment in it. Which is the case with TOR and to a lesser extent was the case with LOTRO. When your switching business model as "damage control" not as part of a purposefull plan.
In both Turbines case (though to a lesser extent) and definately in TOR's case...F2P was a damage control measure....no matter what spin they try to put on it now.
LOTRO was a great game INITIALY....and enjoyed decent success with SOA....but it WASN'T having the sort of growth it needed to have in order to justify ongoing investment. MOM and it's other expansions were DISSAPOINTING financialy compared to the investment that was sunk into them. LOTRO had a relatively stable population yes...but it wasn't stable at a high enough level to satisfy the investments sunk into it (and certainly not enough to make it attractive to sell to WB at a decent return). F2P was a ploy by Turbine to try to repeat the kind of success they had with switching the model for DDO...but DDO was a true basement dweller with nowhere to go but up...not the same situation with LOTRO. LOTRO DID see a short term bump in proffits when it switched to F2P (though still nowhere near what they had with DDO).....but that bump was largely TRANSITORY. In the long term, F2P... despite whatever PR spin you might here....hasn't been all that successfull financialy for LOTRO..... Honestly it's a toss up financialy whether Turbine would have been better off in the long term by having stayed with the Sub model and instead having used all the resources invested in switching the business model for the game into producing content at a better rate (which was the main player complaint for a long time as there was a MAJOR dry up of content while they were secretly working on F2P conversion) and improving game systems. LOTRO today is not doing all that well financialy....as evinced by the increasingly desperate nickle and diming for goods/services and the increasingly pushing of the envelope of the types of items offered in the cash shop.
TOR's F2P move was even much more clearly evident as "damage control". Yes, TOR probably still enjoys over 500K subs...and that sounds like alot...but given what TOR costs to make and run and the expense of it's licensing deal... 500K subs SUSTAINED over the long term is what TOR needs, according to EA/Bioware's own finiancial people, just to BREAK EVEN. (outside analyst's working for investors place that number much higher...some even twice as much). You don't build the most expensive MMO ever in history...just to BREAK EVEN on the deal...... and given the existing trends it's unclear if TOR wouldn't bottom out at well BELOW the 500K sub break even threshold.
You don't see rapid change of business models, plummeting stock prices, major layoffs AND (MOST IMPORTANTLY) significant shakeups in Executive Management from companies who's products are performing well. Sorry but if it walks, like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's usualy a Duck.....and you add everything up...TOR is quacking loud and clear.
???? ther is soooooo many better new mmo atm wth im gonna play this shit again?? f2p nahhh i like paying for quality game. f2p mean 40$ per month to get the same stuff as before well can said this game is a mmo
It's amazing how many people are trying to pretend this isn't an indication that the the subscription only model is going out of style, but simply a referendum on TOR. Almost every major MMO ever made goes through the exact same cycle. Starts with a subscription, sees a lot of players initially, bleeds players for months or years (depending on the particular developer) until eventually adopting a Freemium model, which in every case where it has been adopted increased revenue from the game, and in many cases actually increased the number of people paying to subscribe.
What is actually different about TOR than these other games? A larger budget, more players even now than most games have at any time past their first month of release, and a faster conversion to Freemium. Which of these makes TOR a "failure?" We don't have the numbers to know whether the game has already made back it's development costs, and anyone who claims to is just blowing smoke, so that element is pointless to discuss. As for the fast conversion, once they made the decision that they would do it eventually, how is doing it sooner a bad thing? Better to get the change made as quickly as possible than to arbitrarily draw it out waiting for subscriber numbers to drop further.
The market has changed. Most players simply aren't willing to embrace the subscription only model anymore, not for any substantial length of time. And, frankly, they shouldn't embrace it. Every modern (themepark) MMO has large amounts of what is essentially single player content, and gamers shouldn't have to pay a monthly fee to play through the single player portion of a game. The modular approach *should* be the new standard, where single player comes with the price of the box, and players have the option of only paying for those portions of the multiplayer content which they actually want to play, rather than paying a flat fee for access to all of the content, when much of it may not even interest them. Choice is a good thing. Long live Freemium gaming.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Tenebrion...was absolutely right in his review. The only review put out on MMORPG that was correct and spot on. Too bad you canned him.
EA/BW I think did the following. They went the big box price and sub to get the raving fan bois to sign up for 1 year subs and payoff initial investment. Since one of the EA Suits gave a speech at a GDC conference back in '09 or 10 about loving the F2P model and wanting to go that way exclusively, they planned this and wanted this from the beginning.
Even a F2P option won't bring me back. I'm through with first time developers and their first mmo. I'll wait until they have 2 under their belt before I give any dev another try.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Comments
you lasted longer than me, i got two toons to 30 within my initial, included 30 game time, and i got too bored to pay for one month. it's a shame because i really wanted swtor to be good.
i was sooo hyped for this game.....played 15 days and quit.
No it doesn't this is where the market is going and I'll be amazed if TESO doesn't launch as a freemium game and you can quote me on that. GW2 will have the same trajectory of players, loads at launch not so many 6 monthys later but it will not be because of its quality.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Shirley you mean Turbine?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Even a blind man will eventually hit a bullseye, enjoy your "I told you so" moment even though its a hollow one.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
You are 100% right, the reason this game is gonig F2p is that it took NO CHANCES, decided that voice acting and non MMORPG elements like a linear single player story and dumbed down mechanics of established mmos would attract people.
Did this game offer choice. NO, Talents were so rigid, classes and gameplay was rigid and uninspired. the worlds were lifeless and stale. No one wants to pay 15$ a month for that.
ALL MMO's are going to take this road so the fake jubilation of the "real MMO players" around here will be short lived. And NO Arenanet did not start this trend. You have to thank the visionaries at Gpotato and other F2P comapanies for this one, OH! the irony of all those F2P is evil threads, great entertainment though.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
WoW is far more varied, deep, and has a sense of humour.
SWTOR could have beaten WoW eventually if the PvE wasn't so repatitious.
SWTOR would have beaten Eve Online hands down if they had decided to do a one universe PvP zone.
But they focused on voice acting rather than gameplay.
SWTOR is WoW-lite in space.
And this is the problem. "We spend 300 million on this game!" Yeah 275 Million on crappy cut scenes and voice acting.
I bought the game, I liked the game but, I could see the failings of the game very early on!
Sad, I hope they fix the game, make it more explorable, more "grand" I guess.
SWTOR didnt make a mistake by not embracing the F2P model from the start. F2P is only a market direction for older and failed games. WOW still has the traditional subscription model. Most AAA games launch with a subscription model and we buy those games knowing that . when the games don't deliver whats promised they go F2P after a drop in subscribers. So Bioware is just lying by sayving hindsight is 20/20.
my personal preference is a subscription based business model.
Point = copying WoW was dumb and made the game fail.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
About time. Was waiting for this. I subbed for three months day 1. Stopped playing in January. Never renewed. Game was fun but not worth the sub. Will definitely go back and finish my Jedi and probably the other 7 stories.
F2P model is the best (at least for me). Allows me to play the game and if I really like it I support it through the CS. I dont believe in P2W because no one can 'win' over my experience. If you dont have to pay to play the game, cant really complain about MT. At the end of the day its now a choice to pay as opposed to a given and Ill take that anyday.
Title should be "Epic Fail admitted in fall", lol
My blog about (no more)MMORPG Addicted - a bog about videogames, cinema, politics and other things (in Italian)
Been playing the 'game that shall not be named'
SO much fun. Rose tinted goggles not needed at all. Would gladly pay for an official version.
Considering how fast this is going to adopt a f2p model(less than a year) am wondering when they started designing said model or even if they had it ready at launch?
Would you expect any reasonable business to release new product and not be be ready for many "if" that may come?
F2P isn't NECCESSARLY the sign of a subpar/failed game...if the game is designed with the INTENTION that it support that business model. It is the sign of a subpar/failed game when you need to scramble to do that as a "Plan B" because you are failing to meet the numbers you need to JUSTIFY your investment in it. Which is the case with TOR and to a lesser extent was the case with LOTRO. When your switching business model as "damage control" not as part of a purposefull plan.
In both Turbines case (though to a lesser extent) and definately in TOR's case...F2P was a damage control measure....no matter what spin they try to put on it now.
LOTRO was a great game INITIALY....and enjoyed decent success with SOA....but it WASN'T having the sort of growth it needed to have in order to justify ongoing investment. MOM and it's other expansions were DISSAPOINTING financialy compared to the investment that was sunk into them. LOTRO had a relatively stable population yes...but it wasn't stable at a high enough level to satisfy the investments sunk into it (and certainly not enough to make it attractive to sell to WB at a decent return). F2P was a ploy by Turbine to try to repeat the kind of success they had with switching the model for DDO...but DDO was a true basement dweller with nowhere to go but up...not the same situation with LOTRO. LOTRO DID see a short term bump in proffits when it switched to F2P (though still nowhere near what they had with DDO).....but that bump was largely TRANSITORY. In the long term, F2P... despite whatever PR spin you might here....hasn't been all that successfull financialy for LOTRO..... Honestly it's a toss up financialy whether Turbine would have been better off in the long term by having stayed with the Sub model and instead having used all the resources invested in switching the business model for the game into producing content at a better rate (which was the main player complaint for a long time as there was a MAJOR dry up of content while they were secretly working on F2P conversion) and improving game systems. LOTRO today is not doing all that well financialy....as evinced by the increasingly desperate nickle and diming for goods/services and the increasingly pushing of the envelope of the types of items offered in the cash shop.
TOR's F2P move was even much more clearly evident as "damage control". Yes, TOR probably still enjoys over 500K subs...and that sounds like alot...but given what TOR costs to make and run and the expense of it's licensing deal... 500K subs SUSTAINED over the long term is what TOR needs, according to EA/Bioware's own finiancial people, just to BREAK EVEN. (outside analyst's working for investors place that number much higher...some even twice as much). You don't build the most expensive MMO ever in history...just to BREAK EVEN on the deal...... and given the existing trends it's unclear if TOR wouldn't bottom out at well BELOW the 500K sub break even threshold.
You don't see rapid change of business models, plummeting stock prices, major layoffs AND (MOST IMPORTANTLY) significant shakeups in Executive Management from companies who's products are performing well. Sorry but if it walks, like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's usualy a Duck.....and you add everything up...TOR is quacking loud and clear.
???? ther is soooooo many better new mmo atm wth im gonna play this shit again?? f2p nahhh i like paying for quality game. f2p mean 40$ per month to get the same stuff as before well can said this game is a mmo
Nah, it was supposed to kill WoW...
It needs a completeoverhaul in almost all aspectp
I do support the so call "free to play", but I don't see this game is going anywhere.
EA just trying to grab the last penny in gamer's pocket from CS and they will shut the game down once the game is not profitable.
The title of this thread should rename to:
"
Star Wars: The Old Republic: Free to Play. This Fails"
It's amazing how many people are trying to pretend this isn't an indication that the the subscription only model is going out of style, but simply a referendum on TOR. Almost every major MMO ever made goes through the exact same cycle. Starts with a subscription, sees a lot of players initially, bleeds players for months or years (depending on the particular developer) until eventually adopting a Freemium model, which in every case where it has been adopted increased revenue from the game, and in many cases actually increased the number of people paying to subscribe.
What is actually different about TOR than these other games? A larger budget, more players even now than most games have at any time past their first month of release, and a faster conversion to Freemium. Which of these makes TOR a "failure?" We don't have the numbers to know whether the game has already made back it's development costs, and anyone who claims to is just blowing smoke, so that element is pointless to discuss. As for the fast conversion, once they made the decision that they would do it eventually, how is doing it sooner a bad thing? Better to get the change made as quickly as possible than to arbitrarily draw it out waiting for subscriber numbers to drop further.
The market has changed. Most players simply aren't willing to embrace the subscription only model anymore, not for any substantial length of time. And, frankly, they shouldn't embrace it. Every modern (themepark) MMO has large amounts of what is essentially single player content, and gamers shouldn't have to pay a monthly fee to play through the single player portion of a game. The modular approach *should* be the new standard, where single player comes with the price of the box, and players have the option of only paying for those portions of the multiplayer content which they actually want to play, rather than paying a flat fee for access to all of the content, when much of it may not even interest them. Choice is a good thing. Long live Freemium gaming.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
EAlouse.....was right.
Tenebrion...was absolutely right in his review. The only review put out on MMORPG that was correct and spot on. Too bad you canned him.
EA/BW I think did the following. They went the big box price and sub to get the raving fan bois to sign up for 1 year subs and payoff initial investment. Since one of the EA Suits gave a speech at a GDC conference back in '09 or 10 about loving the F2P model and wanting to go that way exclusively, they planned this and wanted this from the beginning.
It wont save this trainwreck though.
Even a F2P option won't bring me back. I'm through with first time developers and their first mmo. I'll wait until they have 2 under their belt before I give any dev another try.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."