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So is it just, LFG need control/support now instead of tank/heals?

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  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    Basically haha. Many classes do get some sort of control/support mixed in though which helps out.  In the end, not having support/control of some sort will make it much harder to do stuff. Its less that there is not 'trinity' in this game, and more so its balanced to make people stand more of a chance on their own and clutch on the 'downed' aspect to make up for it a bit. 

     

    If your not doing support/control at all, your just making things very difficult, everyone should be providing it to some degree.

    Aye, and even when specced for DPS, you should have some abbillities to help with controll and support, so use them

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    Basically haha. Many classes do get some sort of control/support mixed in though which helps out.  In the end, not having support/control of some sort will make it much harder to do stuff. Its less that there is not 'trinity' in this game, and more so its balanced to make people stand more of a chance on their own and clutch on the 'downed' aspect to make up for it a bit. 

     

    If your not doing support/control at all, your just making things very difficult, everyone should be providing it to some degree.

    Aye, and even when specced for DPS, you should have some abbillities to help with controll and support, so use them

    Not should, will. The weapons skills all come with some mix of damage, control and support and you'd be a fool not to use utilities (and even traits) to make up the difference. Ultimately, this is a game where balanced builds will reign supreme and versatility will shine so brightly that the archaic concept of "roles" will be driven deep into the shadows of the nether to be forgotten, forever.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCPosts: 6,344Member
    Originally posted by jaybird50

    If you have not played it yet just wait and see... there really is no LFG... Its pretty amazing imo. I havent grouped so much in any game while at the same time never being officially "grouped".  Its fluidity just ...works

    I think that pretty much nails it

    I miss DAoC

  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 543Member

    This thread demonstrates how fully a single game can brainwash its playerbase.

     

     

    The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

    -The MMO Forum Community

  • PuraimaruPuraimaru MelbournePosts: 74Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    Just wondering, they say they got rid of the trinity. And now they use a dps/control/support system. So does that just mean most people will still spec DPS and no one will wanna be support or control?

    DAFUQ?

    are you kidding me?

    You don't even have to utter the words "LFG need X/Y/Z"

    You just get 5 people random people start playing. People can change up their playstyle there and then to suit the group play etc. But honestly I dont think you need to fill out all those roles in a party.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,440Member Uncommon

    Here is the FACT! Some classes do some roles better then others. Top passive HOT time is a guardian speced to do so. Top AoE damage is a Elementlist speced to do so. Each dungeon will have parts that are easier if you have the right tools. So people will look for the tools for an easy win and some may require it as we have seen in every MMO we have played. Only way to stop this is if ANet balances the classes so everyone does each job equally. I dont see this happening so get ready for players asking for X class thats speced for Y role.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • sajahsajah nopPosts: 35Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Here is the FACT! Some classes do some roles better then others. Top passive HOT time is a guardian speced to do so. Top AoE damage is a Elementlist speced to do so. Each dungeon will have parts that are easier if you have the right tools. So people will look for the tools for an easy win and some may require it as we have seen in every MMO we have played. Only way to stop this is if ANet balances the classes so everyone does each job equally. I dont see this happening so get ready for players asking for X class thats speced for Y role.

    You're not looking at the big picture, you're just comparing some numbers between professions and saying "that one is bigger that this one". Well doesn't work like that in a fight in GW2.   Let's take the example of the guardian healing (because some people are still thinking it's going to be the healer-ish class), first, regeneration doesn't depend on the class it depends on the level and the healing power (which scales the same between classes since it comes from stuff and trait line stat).</br>

    Second is raw healing, guardian has a higher base with some skills, sure, but there is a problem, either there is a freaking long cooldown (30s is freaking long, 10s is already freaking long) or it's just way to small. It doesn't matter if you "spam" heal on someone, giving him 2k HP every 5s when he can loose 10K in 6 isn't just efficient, you don't heal a spike with that, they might have the best  numbers, but those numbers are useless if you just look at them like that, it like telling someone you can fill a watertank in one day and he can only do it in 2 days, but the tank need to be full within the hour, faster doesn't mean useful.</br></br>

    So what is that healing for ? it's to buy time, like any other support, buy time till the guy's selfheal is up, buy time till the condition removal (if he was suffering from a damage condition) is up or the condition gone etc. The main goal is never to refill entirely the HP bar, it's to keep it managable, but it's not the only way to do it, you are not a healer, for instance if you have a heavy protection+weakness teambuild, you don't need that must healing, because you won't loose that much HP to begin with when you're hit.</br></br>

    It's the same with everything, the orientation your build takes is complemented by your party members, but it's not black & white, like you're support, you're control and you only do that, it's a mix between all builds giving you equal damage, support control in the end. So the only thing people will do is copy a wiki teambuild that works, but it's not going to be the best, because there is no best, there is only balanced.

     

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,440Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sajah
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Here is the FACT! Some classes do some roles better then others. Top passive HOT time is a guardian speced to do so. Top AoE damage is a Elementlist speced to do so. Each dungeon will have parts that are easier if you have the right tools. So people will look for the tools for an easy win and some may require it as we have seen in every MMO we have played. Only way to stop this is if ANet balances the classes so everyone does each job equally. I dont see this happening so get ready for players asking for X class thats speced for Y role.

    You're not looking at the big picture, you're just comparing some numbers between professions and saying "that one is bigger that this one". Well doesn't work like that in a fight in GW2.   Let's take the example of the guardian healing (because some people are still thinking it's going to be the healer-ish class), first, regeneration doesn't depend on the class it depends on the level and the healing power (which scales the same between classes since it comes from stuff and trait line stat).

    Second is raw healing, guardian has a higher base with some skills, sure, but there is a problem, either there is a freaking long cooldown (30s is freaking long, 10s is already freaking long) or it's just way to small. It doesn't matter if you "spam" heal on someone, giving him 2k HP every 5s when he can loose 10K in 6 isn't just efficient, you don't heal a spike with that, they might have the best  numbers, but those numbers are useless if you just look at them like that, it like telling someone you can fill a watertank in one day and he can only do it in 2 days, but the tank need to be full within the hour, faster doesn't mean useful.
     

    So what is that healing for ? it's to buy time, like any other support, buy time till the guy's selfheal is up, buy time till the condition removal (if he was suffering from a damage condition) is up or the condition gone etc. The main goal is never to refill entirely the HP bar, it's to keep it managable, but it's not the only way to do it, you are not a healer, for instance if you have a heavy protection+weakness teambuild, you don't need that must healing, because you won't loose that much HP to begin with when you're hit.
     

    It's the same with everything, the orientation your build takes is complemented by your party members, but it's not black & white, like you're support, you're control and you only do that, it's a mix between all builds giving you equal damage, support control in the end. So the only thing people will do is copy a wiki teambuild that works, but it's not going to be the best, because there is no best, there is only balanced.

     

    Im not talking pigeonhole someone into a Hard Trinity role, like making the Guardian the classic team healer or the Warrior the tank. I am talking about guilds asking people to spec their classes to their strengths. So lets take a Elementlist using a staff in water. Thats their support/healing role being put to use. Now lets take a Guardian with a 1h mace and off hand, thats the guardians biggest support/healing weapon set. Now get both classes spec everything into healing so they end up being playing heavey support and just a medium ranged DPS class. As it stands now the Guardian between the two classes would heal more by the end of the dungeon run then the Elementalist. But if the Elemnetlist was speced heavey into AoE (what they do better then any other class) You would get more bang for your buck in the team. 

    Because the classes are not balanced equal doing any part of any role, DPS, Healing and Damage Mitigation/Control. Means that guilds and players in general will ask for players to play what their class is AWESOME at over just good at. Take a team of 5 random classes that are speced for what they are just good at vs a team of 5 that spec their classes what they are AWESOME at, what team has the edge? Because of this a guild in WvW of 40 players running with everyone in their classes best spec means they have a 5-10-20% advantage over a guild thats just specing willy nilly. This will force other guilds to follow suit if they want to play on the same level or ANet will have to make all classes do all roles equal. Follow me?

    As it stands now with all classes not being equal at all roles we will see builds come out that are not only considered optimum but required by most of the community. So as the OP said, Looking for Guardian speced for support, Looking for Elementlist speced for AoE. Its gona happen as the game is designed now. Will Anet change that? Who knows!!!!


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


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