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General: The Best MMO Business Models

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  • LuxthorLuxthor ZagrebPosts: 171Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Luxthor
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Luxthor

    Fact about RMT is to clarify my post because MadKing was referring to GW1, and that game didn’t have RMT.

    Yes, it does.

    This is only CS, and good one, atleast for GW. ;)

    Please, tell me you're joking and that you really do have some basic understanding of the topic you chose to discuss.

    Where did you dig that link, rofl. ;)

     

    CS = Cash Shop (general term for ingame item shop)

    RMT = Real Money Trade (gold selling, real curency for virtual one)

     

    Better look here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_economy

    ---
    "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    "It’s true; the MMORPG.com community is a decidedly subscription-based crowd."

     

    Shame really, but then the community here is decidedly pro-Indie, pro-sandbox crappy game as well.

     

     

    Buy to Play and any of the micro transaction models that dont feature pay to win is the best revenue model IMO.  I wish some of you would venture out to other forums not associated with MMO's.  You'll see other gaming communities say thge #1 reason they hate MMO's is the monthly subscription.  As long as the average MMO development continues to churn out sub based games then those games will continue to be labled "niche" by the gaming community at large.

     

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,989Member Uncommon

    Sub games are still my preference, wouldn't mind having not to pay the up front cost however and just sign up and start paying my 15.00 a month. EVE was mostly like this, think it was 20.00 to get started.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • windJyinwindJyin Lages, NYPosts: 10Member

    Buy to Play is my favorite, and Cash Shop is also acceptable, what I really find outrageous is the combination of B2P + Subscription + Cash Shop, such as The Secret World is currently using (even though it's a good game).

  • jondifooljondifool cphPosts: 1,114Member

    qoute from jeff strains "how to create a succesfull MMO."

    Innovate with your game play, and innovate with your business model! The two go hand in hand, and are mutually dependent on each other. Decide on your business model first, and then build your game around it. Guild Wars can be successful with its business model because we decided that we would not charge a subscription fee before we wrote the first line of code, and every design and technology decision we made served that purpose.

    I think thats true

    read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    "It’s true; the MMORPG.com community is a decidedly subscription-based crowd."

     

    Shame really, but then the community here is decidedly pro-Indie, pro-sandbox crappy game as well.

     

     

    Buy to Play and any of the micro transaction models that dont feature pay to win is the best revenue model IMO.  I wish some of you would venture out to other forums not associated with MMO's.  You'll see other gaming communities say thge #1 reason they hate MMO's is the monthly subscription.  As long as the average MMO development continues to churn out sub based games then those games will continue to be labled "niche" by the gaming community at large.

     

    I do not understand why it would be "shame" to prefer subscription based model.

    I also doubt that a large part of this MMORPG.com community is pro-crappy game. Or do you consider sandbox games to be crappy in general?

     

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,655Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Luxthor
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Luxthor
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Luxthor

    Fact about RMT is to clarify my post because MadKing was referring to GW1, and that game didn’t have RMT.

    Yes, it does.

    This is only CS, and good one, atleast for GW. ;)

    Please, tell me you're joking and that you really do have some basic understanding of the topic you chose to discuss.

    Where did you dig that link, rofl. ;)

    CS = Cash Shop (item shop, ingame or external, for virtual items and services purchased with real money)

    RMT = Real Money Transaction (purchasing virtual items or services with real money)

    Better look here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_economy

    Fixed that for you.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,655Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    "It’s true; the MMORPG.com community is a decidedly subscription-based crowd."

    Shame really, but then the community here is decidedly pro-Indie, pro-sandbox crappy game as well.

    Buy to Play and any of the micro transaction models that dont feature pay to win is the best revenue model IMO.  I wish some of you would venture out to other forums not associated with MMO's.  You'll see other gaming communities say thge #1 reason they hate MMO's is the monthly subscription.  As long as the average MMO development continues to churn out sub based games then those games will continue to be labled "niche" by the gaming community at large.

     

    I do not understand why it would be "shame" to prefer subscription based model.

    Because the subscription exist primarily to make sure the provider of the product or service receives a steady payment, whether the product or service is used or not. The convenience is its only selling point, which is funny because most of the posters here who all gung-ho for subscriptions are usually against paying for convenience.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Subscription is the best way to go with ZERO cash shop.

     

    -Flat rate of $15/month

    -You pay for ALL content added to the game via that flat rate, rather than being nickle & dimed

    -You're given a level playing field for which you cannot advance further than another player by spending more $$$ than them.

    -Content isn't locked in a cash-shop that was developed with the $15 you already paid to access it under the guise of "cosmetic cash shop". You paid for it already, why should you have to pay AGAIN? Nickle and diming....

     

    "FreeToPlay" isn't free, and BuyToPlay requires a cash shop to be a successful & sustainable business model anymore.

     

    Subscription remains king.

    Sorry but Subscription model games like that are only worth it if they actually offer content.  Take WoW for example, they release 1 or 2 major patches a year and they could easily churn out 2 or 3 times that many.  If my 14 year old Asherons Call can have a monthly content update then games with a gazillion times the revenue steam can come close.

     

    Blizzard and Bioware maynot nickle and dime you they Grant and Franklin you.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    "It’s true; the MMORPG.com community is a decidedly subscription-based crowd."

     

    Shame really, but then the community here is decidedly pro-Indie, pro-sandbox crappy game as well.

     

     

    Buy to Play and any of the micro transaction models that dont feature pay to win is the best revenue model IMO.  I wish some of you would venture out to other forums not associated with MMO's.  You'll see other gaming communities say thge #1 reason they hate MMO's is the monthly subscription.  As long as the average MMO development continues to churn out sub based games then those games will continue to be labled "niche" by the gaming community at large.

     

    I do not understand why it would be "shame" to prefer subscription based model.

    I also doubt that a large part of this MMORPG.com community is pro-crappy game. Or do you consider sandbox games to be crappy in general?

     

    Yes I do.  Because it either features FFA PvP systems or horrible aniumations, combat,and toolsets but often times both.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member

    F2P is better than hybrid (which is a cash grab for former/dying P2P) and P2P (too limiting towards the actual gamer demographic, there's a reason why F2P games are growing in popularity).

    image
  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    "It’s true; the MMORPG.com community is a decidedly subscription-based crowd."

     

    Shame really, but then the community here is decidedly pro-Indie, pro-sandbox crappy game as well.

     

     

    Buy to Play and any of the micro transaction models that dont feature pay to win is the best revenue model IMO.  I wish some of you would venture out to other forums not associated with MMO's.  You'll see other gaming communities say thge #1 reason they hate MMO's is the monthly subscription.  As long as the average MMO development continues to churn out sub based games then those games will continue to be labled "niche" by the gaming community at large.

     

    I do not understand why it would be "shame" to prefer subscription based model.

    I also doubt that a large part of this MMORPG.com community is pro-crappy game. Or do you consider sandbox games to be crappy in general?

     

    Yes I do.  Because it either features FFA PvP systems or horrible aniumations, combat,and toolsets but often times both.

    Ok, what exactly do you mean by the part:

    "Shame really, but then the community here is decidedly pro-sandbox game as well" (I left out "pro-indie" and "crappy"...if it is necessary for these words to be included, feel free to correct me, I am more concerned with the part I highlighted.

    At this point, it implies to me that you question the taste of the community in terms of business models based on the fact that large part of it is represented by people who like sandbox games which you, personally, consider to be crappy.

    Not that you were obliged to answer. You may as well tell me to Eff Off of course

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • LuxthorLuxthor ZagrebPosts: 171Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Luxthor
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Luxthor
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Luxthor

    Fact about RMT is to clarify my post because MadKing was referring to GW1, and that game didn’t have RMT.

    Yes, it does.

    This is only CS, and good one, atleast for GW. ;)

    Please, tell me you're joking and that you really do have some basic understanding of the topic you chose to discuss.

    Where did you dig that link, rofl. ;)

    CS = Cash Shop (item shop, ingame or external, for virtual items and services purchased with real money)

    RMT = Real Money Transaction (purchasing virtual items or services with real money)

    Better look here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_economy

    Fixed that for you.

     

    Yeah, made straw-men of me, like no one will notice. You bad boy. ;)

     

    ---
    "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,539Member Uncommon

    I prefer buy to play model. I don't like the idea that with subscription based payment models, you have to resub if you decide to play again. When I'm really busy I don't like to pay for a sub.

    This is also why hybrid is my second favourite. When I'm really into the game, I pay for a sub, but in periods that I know that I won't be able to play a lot, I can drop the sub to f2p. But of course, whether this actually is practical in use, depends on the game and what they offer for their different payment options. With EQ2 for example, the drop to f2p renders the game practically useless to me for my playstyle. With Fallen Earth it used to work for me (untill they decided to get rid of crafting queue for f2p anyway).

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,715Member Uncommon

    "the MMORPG.com community is a decidedly subscription-based crowd"

    I guess I'm with the smaller bunch titled "exception" then :) but my The List would be almost the same as Mike's:

    1. Hybrid (mostly because of LotRO), 2. B2P, 3. F2P, 4. Sub, 5. Lifetime

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    I used to pay $2 an hour for Rolemaster Magestorm back in the mid 90's, that was a subscription model. How would that change your scope or would it?
  • Effin_RabbitEffin_Rabbit Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 773Member Uncommon

    It amazes me that people are still willing to back a business model that has proven to be highway robbery, to each his own I guess. Personally I'll never buy a subscription game again because they just arent worth it. I may as well pay some one to punch me in the face or stomp on my balls or even go to the strip club, in the end I still feel the same way. My favorite model is subscription based with an item shop and having to buy the expansions too.  

  • waveslayerwaveslayer Salisbury, NCPosts: 355Member Uncommon

    subscription all the way, I will even pay more if they would give me a true RP server.

    15 to 20 bucks a month aint crap compared to the entertainmant value I get in return, what is it, one less case of beer, not like I need that anyway.

    Some of the hybrid games like LoTRO, Fallen Earth and DC Online are good to have for the times when my main sub game gets a little boring,but seems to me you end up spending way more in the long run on them to get the full game.But they do have thier place, if I had no money at all and was still able to have an internet connection the Hybrids and F2Ps would be a godsend.

    Thats my 2 cents on the subject.

    Godz of War I call Thee

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    overlooked very worst

    Subscription + cash shop

     

    WOW and many others do this

  • _Jord__Jord_ Toronto, ONPosts: 228Member

    I wish I never heard the term "F2P." 

    As others have said, League of Legends (albeit not an MMO) seems to have got this formula perfected. You never have to open your wallet to enjoy the game and "progress" at a reasonable pace, but you can if you want to. You will never lose a game because you didn't pay.

    MMOs, on the other hand, have implemented it to serious detriment. When a game is balanced around a cash shop, rather than quality gameplay, it is flawed to the core. I was naive enough to play Runes of Magic for a couple of weeks. After a while, I realized that it would actually be FAR MORE expensive to play than WoW.

    ------
    Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
    Currently - Bored.

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member

    I hope the B2P option works out. To me it's the middle ground between F2P and P2P. The sub eventually just chases people away and F2P always has P2W around the corner.

    B2P is no guarantee for a good game nor does it mean that the cash shop will never go P2W. All we can do is hope that Anet stays true to their goals.

    The hybrid model could be good too, but I don't like the games that use that model enough to really want to find out.

    imageimage
  • anwaranwar SanAntonio, TXPosts: 108Member
    Originally posted by JerYnkFan

    I prefer the subscription model where I pay a set fee and that's it.  I didn't mind the Turbine hybrid LOTRO plan until WB bought them and is now starting to get greedy. (IE charging you to fix your inventory slots )

    agreed

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Subscription WITHOUT ANY cash shop.     <--  best

     

    Lifetime <--  it would be even better BUT games that offer lifetime have a tendency to go to freemium model or f2p or putting cash shop.  For me to buy Lifetime now (I did once) devs would have to guarantee me that if game was running,  that there would be p2p-no CS servers avabile even if  majority of servers would go freemium or f2p after few years.

     

    B2P <----  theoreticaly seem best BUT GW2 cash shop is VERY diffrent from GW1 cash shop, and GW2 cash shop is much more similar to cash shop in f2p and freemium games and that's bad. I am still on the line with this model, initially I was ok after I browsed gw1 cash shop especially when looked upon how small it was and how slowly it growed during years.  After seeing diffrent kind of gw2 shop - I am very sceptical.

    B2P would be absolute magnificent and best IF it would be pure B2P. as box + expansions + maybe few DLC's.   WITHOUT cash shop, rmah or gold sellinhg.

     

    Tried many f2p and freemium (aka hubrid aka Lotro model) but I found myself to don't like them alot.  Cash shops in those mmorpg's seem to grow continuesly, sometimes then shrink a bit and then quickly start to grow. They influence game.  No I could not play game like that anymore.

    As for strictly freemum / hybrid model  - tried few games with it, but longest one was Lotro. I was subsriber of p2p version and then for many months subsriber (VIP) in hybrid / freemium version.  I observed first handenly how and why this model change over time, how and why cash shop and game change.  It is HORRID.  Worst model ever. Seriously.  If Lotro was p2p without CS I would propably still play it. Now obviously I am not and will not go back.

     
  • KhayotixKhayotix Somewhere, FLPosts: 220Member Uncommon

    I prefer a Subscription Model Personally. If a game is as awesome as Old EQ with todays graphics I would totally spend more than the customary 15 a month. However most people are completely wrong about Hybrid models. Hybrid Models are not expensive. People are just to stupid to realize that if you cannot buy the same even playing field as the Hybrids players who pay the sub for the same 15 dollars, then you too should sub instead of complaining that you need to pay 30 dollars, 45 dollars, or 100 dollars to match their 15 subscription. Hybrids lower the barrier to entry. Not as far as F2P but low enough to give people a taste so they can decide wether or not they want to subscribe. Which is what the Hybrid model is meant for. It is meant to encourage players to subscribe, because you dont want to spend more than 15 a month, and you will if you dont subscribe and wish to play evenly. It is the second best model as it stands because it "almost never" becomes P2W like a full on F2P game does.

    image
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