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The trinity broken (video)

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  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Ya gone are the day of waiting 30 min to try and find a class. Or telling your friend he cant come because you dont need another DPS class. As long as everyone on your team know how to play their class to the full you can do any content with any classes. 

    This is the first post of yours I've agreed with fully in far too long. image

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    So I see this merry-go-round is still going round and round lol :).  Anyway, I'm going to define the holy trinity as simply as possible:

    In RPG combat, you can tank, heal, or DPS.

    In the holy trinity you ARE tank, heal, or DPS.

    That simple.

    LOL this from the guy who has said he has never done a dungeon run in GW2. I will ask your point of view 6 months from now. Have a good day!

    This comment has no bearing on the definition.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Muntz

    Isn't the origin of the term from EQ? Warrior, Cleric, and Enchanter. These are static classes specifically for tanking, healing and crowd control. 

    It seem the issue in this thread is that the classic definition of this term assigns staticly the class to a role (Warrior-Tank, Cleric-Healer, Enchanter-CC). You quite literally need these three classes to form a viable group. Obviously, GW2 does not have this restriction. 

    If we change the definition or come up with an alternative called Soft Trinity we talk only about the roles not the classes. The problem is it's still kind of confusing because many games, even non-MMO games, offer these roles. To further confuse it for GW2,  the roles are fluid in that any one class maybe handling one or all three at any given time. Seems like we are at this point far from the origin of the term. 

    So for some of you for the trinity to be dead it isn't enough for the static class - role assignment to be destroyed the actual roles need to be new.

    The internets was built to argue over such dogma. I don't see an end in site. 

    Ya because of GW2 it has spawned 2 new terms, EQ is a hard trinity: where classes focused on 1 role. GW2 is a soft trinity: Where all classes take truns at all of the roles. Some have taken it to far and yelling there is no trinity and making some view this game as easy and for soft gamers. Its not! If anything its harder.

    I get that you're trying to argue that GW2 is not necessarily an easy game, but you're going about it the wrong way.

    I agree that some people say that GW2 will be easy and a zergfest because it doesn't have the trinity.  You are trying to argue that this statement is wrong because GW2 does indeed have the trinity, therefore the argument is invalid, and GW2 is not necessarily an easy game.

    But this is the wrong way to go about it, because the above argument isn't wrong because GW2 has the trinity, it is wrong because a non-trinity game is not necessarily easy.  There are PLENTY of examples of non-trinity games that are very hard and involve lots of teamwork, like just about any decent coop FPS.

    In fact, the presence of the trinity almost makes the game easier in my eyes, because the trinity essentially means that there is ONE tactic, or slight variations of that tactic, that is applicable in almost every scenario.  In a non-trinity game, you actually have to think about what tactics you are going to use to overcome situations.

    I think it's even worse than that. Major fights in WoW, for example, are actually scripted. Blizzard shares the script with the top guilds in beta, they practice them and record them for YouTube, then the encounter goes live and the first thing you're told is to "watch the video on how to beat this fight". The dynamic aspect is completely removed in those trinity based combat systems.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    So I see this merry-go-round is still going round and round lol :).  Anyway, I'm going to define the holy trinity as simply as possible:

    In RPG combat, you can tank, heal, or DPS.

    In the holy trinity you ARE tank, heal, or DPS.

    That simple.

    LOL this from the guy who has said he has never done a dungeon run in GW2. I will ask your point of view 6 months from now. Have a good day!

     Why do I have to do a dungeon run to know what a word means?  I mean, would I have to actually fly a plane before I understood the definition of "pilot?"

    The only way your argument can make sense is if you are trying to say that in GW2 you actually do play a dedicated role (tank/healer/DPS) but I just don't know this because I never did a dungeon.  But you yourself have admitted on several occasions that you don't play a dedicated role in GW2.  Instead, you just have skills that perform the functions of one or more of those roles.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • PurgatusPurgatus San Diego, CAPosts: 342Member

     

    Im going to re-post something I said ealier as it got lost in the mass of responses. This is my understanding of the Holy Trinity and how it has been broken:

     

    The Tank absorbs hits and focuses the mob so that it hits no one else. He is speced so that hits do less damage to him than anyone else.

    The Healer focuses healing solely on the tank (Unless something goes very wrong). He makes sure that the Tank survives.

    The DPS does the damage, as the other two roles do next to nothing to the enemy.

     

    And to top it all off, each role focuses on this to the exclusion of everything else. All major content must be handled with AT LEAST these three types.

     

    So how does GW2 break away from this? First off they re-define the roles.

    The Tank is a specialist form of Control. Manipulating the enemies, and keeping them from harming the group. It needs to be clear you can CONTROL a mob without TANKING them. They are two different things.

    The Healer is a reactive form of Support, assisting your team in the dealing and reciving of damage. It needs to be clear that you can SUPPORT your team without HEALING them. They are two different things.

    DPS is pretty standard to all games, and needs no comment here.

     

    So outside of re-defining the roles, now we add in the idea that each Profession has the ability to perform any role, but in a way unique to that profession. As a Thief I could DPS the mob, I could specialize in poisons and traps to CONTROL his movments, or I could SUPPORT by giveing them poisoned weapons or stealthing them in crisis.

    So now any profession can take up any role and contribute in a way different than the Holy Trinity directs.

     

    Not only do wn not have the traditional three roles of the holy trinity, but now we do not have to constrict ourselves to that role alone.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    So I see this merry-go-round is still going round and round lol :).  Anyway, I'm going to define the holy trinity as simply as possible:

    In RPG combat, you can tank, heal, or DPS.

    In the holy trinity you ARE tank, heal, or DPS.

    That simple.

    LOL this from the guy who has said he has never done a dungeon run in GW2. I will ask your point of view 6 months from now. Have a good day!

     Why do I have to do a dungeon run to know what a word means?  I mean, would I have to actually fly a plane before I understood the definition of "pilot?"

    The only way your argument can make sense is if you are trying to say that in GW2 you actually do play a dedicated role (tank/healer/DPS) but I just don't know this because I never did a dungeon.  But you yourself have admitted on several occasions that you don't play a dedicated role in GW2.  Instead, you just have skills that perform the functions of one or more of those roles.

    Because your stand has been there is not even a soft trinity and running dungeons has shown me their is. A lot of top end guilds have planed spec that lean to classes strength for the roles they play best to give teams an added boost. People are playing the trinity, not like WoW but more like EQ1, where 2 druids, 2 wizards and a Mage could do any dungeon. Its not a new concept its just a soft trinity and I think after you see how dungeons work you will start to see it to.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    So I see this merry-go-round is still going round and round lol :).  Anyway, I'm going to define the holy trinity as simply as possible:

    In RPG combat, you can tank, heal, or DPS.

    In the holy trinity you ARE tank, heal, or DPS.

    That simple.

    LOL this from the guy who has said he has never done a dungeon run in GW2. I will ask your point of view 6 months from now. Have a good day!

     Why do I have to do a dungeon run to know what a word means?  I mean, would I have to actually fly a plane before I understood the definition of "pilot?"

    The only way your argument can make sense is if you are trying to say that in GW2 you actually do play a dedicated role (tank/healer/DPS) but I just don't know this because I never did a dungeon.  But you yourself have admitted on several occasions that you don't play a dedicated role in GW2.  Instead, you just have skills that perform the functions of one or more of those roles.

    Because your stand has been there is not even a soft trinity and running dungeons has shown me their is. A lot of top end guilds have planed spec that lean to classes strength for the roles they play best to give teams an added boost. People are playing the trinity, not like WoW but more like EQ1, where 2 druids, 2 wizards and a Mage could do any dungeon. Its not a new concept its just a soft trinity and I think after you see how dungeons work you will start to see it to.

     "Soft trinity" is a completely new term that can mean whatever you want.  And you seem to be defining it as "classes have to ability to specialize in control, support, or DPS," which is true in GW2.  But I am not arguing about the "soft trinity," I am arguing about the "holy trinity."  And the holy trinity has always meant dedicated tank, healer, DPS...and this is not in GW2.

    If you want to come up with a new term just so you can say that GW2 has a trinity, then be my guest.  But I am not going to argue about that term...GW2 does not have the holy trinity, that is all I am arguing about.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • TrionicusTrionicus Fort Lauderdale, FLPosts: 497Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    So I see this merry-go-round is still going round and round lol :).  Anyway, I'm going to define the holy trinity as simply as possible:

    In RPG combat, you can tank, heal, or DPS.

    In the holy trinity you ARE tank, heal, or DPS.

    That simple.

    Based on this simple core definition GW2 does not contain the holy trnity, end of story. The role that controls A.I behaviour is strictly crowd control.

    Like someone else said, the role of "Tank" has been replaced with CC and maybe evasion, that is, IF high level dungeons work the same.

    In many games you can sub a role for a time. I.E. 50 Shield Reaver in daoc can sub as a Tank for a time in most situations. OR Theurgists pet spam in dragon raids (for albion) is another example. The idea is that SOMEONE HAS to fill that role, and fill it for a certain amount of time. Can you get 20 Theurgists and spam CC a boss? Can you get 5 Ret pallies to complete heroic dungeons wotlk?

    The list goes on; in early COH you didn't need ANY heals or Tanking to complete missions. Everyone knows what early SWG was like, you could kite mobs for days if you knew how.

     

    It will be fun to see end game pve for GW2. No aggro meter means we will see, hopefully, some inventive CC tactics. That is the point though, in the end. GW2 REQUIRES CC, where as in other games, you can CC, attempt a tank and spank, or dps race it down.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    So I see this merry-go-round is still going round and round lol :).  Anyway, I'm going to define the holy trinity as simply as possible:

    In RPG combat, you can tank, heal, or DPS.

    In the holy trinity you ARE tank, heal, or DPS.

    That simple.

    LOL this from the guy who has said he has never done a dungeon run in GW2. I will ask your point of view 6 months from now. Have a good day!

     Why do I have to do a dungeon run to know what a word means?  I mean, would I have to actually fly a plane before I understood the definition of "pilot?"

    The only way your argument can make sense is if you are trying to say that in GW2 you actually do play a dedicated role (tank/healer/DPS) but I just don't know this because I never did a dungeon.  But you yourself have admitted on several occasions that you don't play a dedicated role in GW2.  Instead, you just have skills that perform the functions of one or more of those roles.

    Because your stand has been there is not even a soft trinity and running dungeons has shown me their is. A lot of top end guilds have planed spec that lean to classes strength for the roles they play best to give teams an added boost. People are playing the trinity, not like WoW but more like EQ1, where 2 druids, 2 wizards and a Mage could do any dungeon. Its not a new concept its just a soft trinity and I think after you see how dungeons work you will start to see it to.

     "Soft trinity" is a completely new term that can mean whatever you want.  And you seem to be defining it as "classes have to ability to specialize in control, support, or DPS," which is true in GW2.  But I am not arguing about the "soft trinity," I am arguing about the "holy trinity."  And the holy trinity has always meant dedicated tank, healer, DPS...and this is not in GW2.

    If you want to come up with a new term just so you can say that GW2 has a trinity, then be my guest.  But I am not going to argue about that term...GW2 does not have the holy trinity, that is all I am arguing about.

    I didnt make up the term, its been in many game reviews. I have never said "holy trinity" I have just said the trinity is here packaged differently.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    So I see this merry-go-round is still going round and round lol :).  Anyway, I'm going to define the holy trinity as simply as possible:

    In RPG combat, you can tank, heal, or DPS.

    In the holy trinity you ARE tank, heal, or DPS.

    That simple.

    LOL this from the guy who has said he has never done a dungeon run in GW2. I will ask your point of view 6 months from now. Have a good day!

     Why do I have to do a dungeon run to know what a word means?  I mean, would I have to actually fly a plane before I understood the definition of "pilot?"

    The only way your argument can make sense is if you are trying to say that in GW2 you actually do play a dedicated role (tank/healer/DPS) but I just don't know this because I never did a dungeon.  But you yourself have admitted on several occasions that you don't play a dedicated role in GW2.  Instead, you just have skills that perform the functions of one or more of those roles.

    Because your stand has been there is not even a soft trinity and running dungeons has shown me their is. A lot of top end guilds have planed spec that lean to classes strength for the roles they play best to give teams an added boost. People are playing the trinity, not like WoW but more like EQ1, where 2 druids, 2 wizards and a Mage could do any dungeon. Its not a new concept its just a soft trinity and I think after you see how dungeons work you will start to see it to.

     "Soft trinity" is a completely new term that can mean whatever you want.  And you seem to be defining it as "classes have to ability to specialize in control, support, or DPS," which is true in GW2.  But I am not arguing about the "soft trinity," I am arguing about the "holy trinity."  And the holy trinity has always meant dedicated tank, healer, DPS...and this is not in GW2.

    If you want to come up with a new term just so you can say that GW2 has a trinity, then be my guest.  But I am not going to argue about that term...GW2 does not have the holy trinity, that is all I am arguing about.

    I didnt make up the term, its been in many game reviews. I have never said "holy trinity" I have just said the trinity is here packaged differently.

     In that case, then fine, I agree with you.  You can say that GW2 contains a "trinity" system.  In fact, ANet even stated in an article that the "trinity" of GW2 was DPS, support, and control.

    That said...GW2 definitely does not contain the "holy trinity."  And when people say that GW2 doesn't have the trinity...this is what they mean.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • kantseemekantseeme millville, NJPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    So I see this merry-go-round is still going round and round lol :).  Anyway, I'm going to define the holy trinity as simply as possible:

    In RPG combat, you can tank, heal, or DPS.

    In the holy trinity you ARE tank, heal, or DPS.

    That simple.

    LOL this from the guy who has said he has never done a dungeon run in GW2. I will ask your point of view 6 months from now. Have a good day!

     Why do I have to do a dungeon run to know what a word means?  I mean, would I have to actually fly a plane before I understood the definition of "pilot?"

    The only way your argument can make sense is if you are trying to say that in GW2 you actually do play a dedicated role (tank/healer/DPS) but I just don't know this because I never did a dungeon.  But you yourself have admitted on several occasions that you don't play a dedicated role in GW2.  Instead, you just have skills that perform the functions of one or more of those roles.

    Because your stand has been there is not even a soft trinity and running dungeons has shown me their is. A lot of top end guilds have planed spec that lean to classes strength for the roles they play best to give teams an added boost. People are playing the trinity, not like WoW but more like EQ1, where 2 druids, 2 wizards and a Mage could do any dungeon. Its not a new concept its just a soft trinity and I think after you see how dungeons work you will start to see it to.

     "Soft trinity" is a completely new term that can mean whatever you want.  And you seem to be defining it as "classes have to ability to specialize in control, support, or DPS," which is true in GW2.  But I am not arguing about the "soft trinity," I am arguing about the "holy trinity."  And the holy trinity has always meant dedicated tank, healer, DPS...and this is not in GW2.

    If you want to come up with a new term just so you can say that GW2 has a trinity, then be my guest.  But I am not going to argue about that term...GW2 does not have the holy trinity, that is all I am arguing about.

    I didnt make up the term, its been in many game reviews. I have never said "holy trinity" I have just said the trinity is here packaged differently.

     In that case, then fine, I agree with you.  You can say that GW2 contains a "trinity" system.  In fact, ANet even stated in an article that the "trinity" of GW2 was DPS, support, and control.

    That said...GW2 definitely does not contain the "holy trinity."  And when people say that GW2 doesn't have the trinity...this is what they mean.

    With this i believe this conversaion has come to an end. Please tip your waitresses and be careful heading home. Goodnight!

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

    2 Things:

    He keeps referring to Gear issues. I thought "gear issues" were abolished in gw2, and there was no notable difference in gear.

    He makes it seem like its some milestone that the trinity is broken. There are games without trinities and soft trinities. Whats basicly occurring here seems like a dps is taking a tank psudo role and then switching when low on health. not rocket science.

    Gear matters when you're lacking Vitality and Toughness.

    Also, an Elementalist using a scepter is just a waste of space.

     

    Something to note, that there are professions that can generate threat and survive better than others. There are professions that can heal and remove conditions better than others. There are professions that can do better single target dps than others, as well as those that do better AoE dps. Condition builds are garbage for PvE, yet some professions rely heavily on condition damage, conundrums

    Another fun fact, as far as support is concerned, whoever generates the most "support threat" will generally get focused by the AI first. Traited Virtue of Resolve, Soothing Mist, Healing Spring, Well of Blood, etc. . . anything you can do in terms of support whether it be condition removal, throwing up boons, or even healing will piss off any of the enemy AI. Though proximity is also a factor for threat. Moreover, some say that even damage is a contributing factor to ones threat, though its probably very low on the list of priorities.

  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member

    just LOL when i see people say tank on this game. i eman what they will go tank on dungeons? mobs for sure isnt since they cant agrro anything, they just can put on front of projectiles and that it. melee AoE damage hit everyone inside the radius, the same for ranged/spell AoE atacks.

     

    everyone is the tank, heal, support. tell me what class is better on support. i just want LOL a bit.

    noob will say GUARDIAN. everyone need guardian on a dungeon, they are the support class, no one can support like guardian. LOOOOOL

     

    guardian managing condition are a joke compared a Necro.

    Necro is by far the best class control condition, anyone compare Guardian with Necro on condition clear dont know much about both classes. Necro even have a great healt trait with Life Transfer

    Warrior is by far teh best class on CC mobs, with is hammer and mace weapons. no one even compare to it, insane amount of stuns/knockdown. dont forget shouts with is active buffs and with the great elite AoE heal trait.  this class is amazing at healing on tournaments (with cleric amulet AoE heal more than 2k each shout, warrior have 2 shout with only 20s CD...), will do the same on dungeons

    Elementalist are great with staff for support, very versatility.

    Guardian are great to protect allies, give defensice buff and heal emergency skill with is amazing AoE heal elite skill.

    Thief is great with is smoke / venom / blind skills,combos.

    you get the point, dont need to say in waht ranger, engineer are good at.  anyone play this agme already should know what every class can do to support team

     

    most people here dont even know how each class work...

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by moosecatlol
    Originally posted by Nitth

    2 Things:

    He keeps referring to Gear issues. I thought "gear issues" were abolished in gw2, and there was no notable difference in gear.

    He makes it seem like its some milestone that the trinity is broken. There are games without trinities and soft trinities. Whats basicly occurring here seems like a dps is taking a tank psudo role and then switching when low on health. not rocket science.

    Gear matters when you're lacking Vitality and Toughness.

    Also, an Elementalist using a scepter is just a waste of space.

     

    Something to note, that there are professions that can generate threat and survive better than others. There are professions that can heal and remove conditions better than others. There are professions that can do better single target dps than others, as well as those that do better AoE dps. Condition builds are garbage for PvE, yet some professions rely heavily on condition damage, conundrums

    Another fun fact, as far as support is concerned, whoever generates the most "support threat" will generally get focused by the AI first. Traited Virtue of Resolve, Soothing Mist, Healing Spring, Well of Blood, etc. . . anything you can do in terms of support whether it be condition removal, throwing up boons, or even healing will piss off any of the enemy AI. Though proximity is also a factor for threat. Moreover, some say that even damage is a contributing factor to ones threat, though its probably very low on the list of priorities.

    1) Gear is notable, it just doesn't scale as steeply as WoW. The difference between a levl 80 blue and a level 80 green isn't as nearly as big, for instance.

    2) Glass cannon builds are viable in PvP and a lesser extent PvE. All depends on how you play. Vit and toughness just means you have more wiggle room to survive getting hit...but you really should be making an effort not to be hit in the first place.

    3) You obviously haven't played a Cripple, Vulnerability,or Bleed based build in PvE. Ramp those up fast and the enemy will feel it. I will agree many other conditions are sub par in PvE. Chill and Confusion especially.

    4) I wish we understood threat better. I've been having a fun time trying to work out the numbers of things based on events in combat., but sometimes it just seems random. I could stand next to a mob, beating on him for 5 seconds staight, and taking off half his health. My ele partner could hit him ONCE with a fire spell, take maybe a quarter of his health, and the sucker bolts for her.I mean, that's why I have stuns and immobs in my arsenal, but it's still aggravating. Other times I can't shake a mob off me even if I haven't touched it, healed anyone, or done anything but stand there.

  • TafaleTafale HaugesundPosts: 37Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    So I see this merry-go-round is still going round and round lol :).  Anyway, I'm going to define the holy trinity as simply as possible:

    In RPG combat, you can tank, heal, or DPS.

    In the holy trinity you ARE tank, heal, or DPS.

    That simple.

    What about a third option: tank and healer classes that can do decent DPS (generally less that DPS classes) so you get away from the inanity of e.g. a WoW healer that spam heals. Some DPS classes that can heal in some degree, some DPS classes that can off-tank in some situations, etc

     

    There are games with the third option :)

     

    I'm just baffled by how black and white some people think: it's either WoW's trinity or GW2's lack of a trinity

  • ClerigoClerigo MatosinhosPosts: 400Member Common

    This thread is simply laughable as it has gone from a great video post from the OP to some rambling nonsense by some WoWish fanbois.

    GW2 does not have the holy trinity or any other trinity out there, except for the fact that it is extremely fun to play and free of some of the crap that was glueing this genre to the floor.

    Yes i like the holy trinity, always will, i like to heal people...what can i do? But i also know the genre is stale and needs some change so i welcome ArenaNets ideas. I can tell you now that GW2 has no form of holy trinity whatsoever as you dont require anyone to have a static job to do and by the simple fact that you dont require to keep a given tank alive so the rest of the people can remain alive also. It is not that hard to think about.

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,538Member Uncommon

    It is too bad that the other thread about this has been closed instead of merged with this one. It had some great comments that will fade very fast now.

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    It is too bad that the other thread about this has been closed instead of merged with this one. It had some great comments that will fade very fast now.

    Eh, really nothing said there that hasn't been said here. And this thread has mostly degenerated into two sides defining trinity differently, and using that to fuel an argument about whether or not GW2 has a trinity. I think Nan and some of the others here have made some good points, but it's 20-something pages of semantics.

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common
    Originally posted by Clerigo

    This thread is simply laughable as it has gone from a great video post from the OP to some rambling nonsense by some WoWish fanbois.

    GW2 does not have the holy trinity or any other trinity out there, except for the fact that it is extremely fun to play and free of some of the crap that was glueing this genre to the floor.

    Yes i like the holy trinity, always will, i like to heal people...what can i do? But i also know the genre is stale and needs some change so i welcome ArenaNets ideas. I can tell you now that GW2 has no form of holy trinity whatsoever as you dont require anyone to have a static job to do and by the simple fact that you dont require to keep a given tank alive so the rest of the people can remain alive also. It is not that hard to think about.

    There's the hang up. No one that is saying there is a trinity in GW2 is claiming that GW2 has the rigid "holy trinity" system in it. However you still perform the roles switching between them depending on the situation.

  • PurgatusPurgatus San Diego, CAPosts: 342Member

    Hey at least people relpied to your posts! :)

  • silvermembersilvermember saint paul, MNPosts: 531Member

    Just like many threads, I find this thread utterly pointless (ironically i m posting here as well). Arguing about it left and right will not change the fact that guild wars 2 developer do not intent to have a trinity.

    And none of us has played the game long enough to have a really serious opinion on whether the trinity is dead or not. And just because you can tank doesn't mean it will go on forever, Anet likes to do balance patches every month and now that they don't have a hard trinity to hold them back they can probably do it faster.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xzen
    Originally posted by Clerigo

    This thread is simply laughable as it has gone from a great video post from the OP to some rambling nonsense by some WoWish fanbois.

    GW2 does not have the holy trinity or any other trinity out there, except for the fact that it is extremely fun to play and free of some of the crap that was glueing this genre to the floor.

    Yes i like the holy trinity, always will, i like to heal people...what can i do? But i also know the genre is stale and needs some change so i welcome ArenaNets ideas. I can tell you now that GW2 has no form of holy trinity whatsoever as you dont require anyone to have a static job to do and by the simple fact that you dont require to keep a given tank alive so the rest of the people can remain alive also. It is not that hard to think about.

    There's the hang up. No one that is saying there is a trinity in GW2 is claiming that GW2 has the rigid "holy trinity" system in it. However you still perform the roles switching between them depending on the situation.

    Ya this almost hybrid class system really makes GW2 something fresh. Everyone able to switch between DPS, Damage mitigation and healing/support as the team needs it, really makes you sit on the edge of your seat and requires more skill. At the same time removing that looking for X class we are all sick of seeing. I really hope other MMOs start to move in this direction. Soft trinity is the way to go. Hard trinity is dead and people who stick to that mind set will fail but the soft trinity is alive and well in GW2. If you cant see it, give it 6 months and you will.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • PurgatusPurgatus San Diego, CAPosts: 342Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    *snip*

    Ya this almost hybrid class system really makes GW2 something fresh. Everyone able to switch between DPS, Damage mitigation and healing/support as the team needs it, really makes you sit on the edge of your seat and requires more skill. At the same time removing that looking for X class we are all sick of seeing. I really hope other MMOs start to move in this direction. Soft trinity is the way to go. Hard trinity is dead and people who stick to that mind set will fail but the soft trinity is alive and well in GW2. If you cant see it, give it 6 months and you will.

    So, out of curiosity, what defines a Soft Trinity min your opinion? It seems like a term alot of people are using in different ways, all thinking they mean the same thing.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Purgatus
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    *snip*

    Ya this almost hybrid class system really makes GW2 something fresh. Everyone able to switch between DPS, Damage mitigation and healing/support as the team needs it, really makes you sit on the edge of your seat and requires more skill. At the same time removing that looking for X class we are all sick of seeing. I really hope other MMOs start to move in this direction. Soft trinity is the way to go. Hard trinity is dead and people who stick to that mind set will fail but the soft trinity is alive and well in GW2. If you cant see it, give it 6 months and you will.

    So, out of curiosity, what defines a Soft Trinity min your opinion? It seems like a term alot of people are using in different ways, all thinking they mean the same thing.

    Its where all areas of the trinity are in the game but not set to any one class. So instead of being a Warrior Tank, now a warrior in GW2 is 30% damage mitigation, 20% heal and 50% damage and that can be changed with your spec but all three areas of the trinity are there. This means many things and why you have seen it used to cover many different subjects. One I am most intersted in is balance and how ANet will do this. 

    Right now each class does something better then the other classes. Guardian can mitigate damage well and so does the Necro with their 9 lives. So I wonder how ANet will balance that when it comes to PvP. Why? Because guilds have already played with people specing to their strengths. My Guardian needs alot less spec resorces to be an awesome healer so a little goes a long way, where a Elelmentlist would need to spend a lot of traits to do the job as well as a guardian. So if everyone is speced to their strengths, this gives a raid in WvW a huge edge. ANet can go 2 ways, 1. remove that edge and everyone can do each role equal. 2. leave it as is and that will force people to follow suit to compete. WoW had the same problem with Add Ons. Leave them in the game and make content harder to level the playing field, by so doing forcing everyone to use them top end raiding. Or remove them and make it even for all. Blizzard went with leaving them in and forcing everyone to use them. What direction will ANet go?


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Purgatus

    So, out of curiosity, what defines a Soft Trinity min your opinion? It seems like a term alot of people are using in different ways, all thinking they mean the same thing.

    So if everyone is speced to their strengths, this gives a raid in WvW a huge edge. ANet can go 2 ways, 1. remove that edge and everyone can do each role equal. 2. leave it as is and that will force people to follow suit to compete. WoW had the same problem with Add Ons. Leave them in the game and make content harder to level the playing field, by so doing forcing everyone to use them top end raiding. Or remove them and make it even for all. Blizzard went with leaving them in and forcing everyone to use them. What direction will ANet go?

    That is actually a very valid point (finally)

    :) jk jk

    If something is found to have an edge, even a small edge, it will become "required" for anyone "serious" about their game play.

    I don't think it's going to be as big of a problem in GW2 as it is/was with WoW because the player skill in GW2 is so much more of a factor than in WoW.

    Best tuned spec in the world in GW2 means nothing if you don't know when to use skills or dodge or don't know positioning etc. etc.

    Where as in WoW, best gear best spec you can literally faceroll through so much of the game it isn't even funny.

    For example, unless you completely over-gear an instance in WoW you NEED a dedicated Tank and Healer.

    However in GW2, you can't really over-gear things as much due to scaling and you don't NEED a dedicated Tank and Healer to "win" if your coordination and skill are good enough.

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