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Missing some basic stuff and buggy

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  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by brac777

    Design choice or not some of the stuff they have done is just plain wrong.  LIke no dungeon finder.  Once game launches and the chat spam gets to unbearable levels in the city, they'll probably put one in, just like every other MMO that thought they could launch without a dungeon finder.

    No mounts?  Really, what design choice would prompt this?  I have a few ideas, but you guys seem to be pretty pissed off already, I'd hate to completely rain on your parade.

    No damage parser or DPS meter?  Thats just ridiculous.  They should know by now the forums are gonna light up after launch when people start wiping in dungeons.  They should preempt the negative posts/press by just putting it in, people want it.  Its pretty much needed for any kind of difficult content and for judging a builds worthiness.

    The one big world vs zones is just dated tech.  Not much they can really do about that now since they are using such an old engine.

     

    OK. Now once thing I haven't heard you do is come up with any difinitive argument. IN fact, this is something I really haven't seen from the pro-mount crowd.

     

    What do you think the game would gain from having mounts. Do you feel it takes too long to get from Waypoint A to waypoint b?

     

    Now, about DPS meters. If people wipe in this game it won't be from DPS problems. We've yet to see a fight with an enrage timer, and since there's no mana bars, bruning a fight before your healer runs out isn't a concern. What will wipe groups is:

    1. Not understanding mechanics like special attacks, or needing to use bundles (there's a fight in ascalon catacombs where you need to forcibly distance two bosses using thrown builders)
    2. Not making proper use of self and group heals, defensive abilities, debuffs, control, dodge, etc to avoid or negate damage.
     
    Sigh. Name the "one big world" game out there that doesn't have zones. And, again, I'll prove you wrong. I'll acknowledge that some do not have loading screens and that IS an important distnction, I will admit. But that said, unless you're hopping between waypoints constantly, you can be running around for hours without seeing a lading screen.
  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by terrant
    (:::)

     

    What do you think the game would gain from having mounts. Do you feel it takes too long to get from Waypoint A to waypoint b?

     (...)

     

    It has been answered: fun. Depending on their vision of the game, introducing mounts could be a cost-efficient way to introduce more fun into the game.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon

    If I could get a big, fat, red arrow pointing out of a veteran mobs head indicating which way it's facing that would be great.  When 50 people are kicking him around my Elementalist can't be bothered to pay attention.

    Eh, figured I would ask while the askings good.  There is a call for dps meters after all....

  • DistasteDistaste Lancaster, PAPosts: 667Member
    Originally posted by BigRock411
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by BigRock411

    Oops

     

    We all know criticism of this game isnt wanted nor is it tolerated.  

    Criticism with some backup is fine. Dissenting opinions are fine. OP had some of those, and some things that were blatantly trolling.

     

    Seriously though...everyone thinks the classes are 100% balanced?

    Of course not. No game is ever 100% balanced, no matter how hard the devs try, unless everything is 100% the same for every player. I don't think it's as broke as the OP indicates, however.

     

     This is the one game where people want heavy instancing?

    There's heavy instancing? The only instances are PS quests and dungeons. Yes, zones splinter into shareds when they are over pop. Keep in mind though not to judge the game by BWE3. They intenitonally reduced the zone caps to stress test.

     

    No one would want mounts?

    Looking at the numerous polls that have been on this site...it's about 50-50. I personally don't see a need for the,. You can get to any given waypoint near your current location on foot quickly enough, and once you have it tagged you can just port.

     

     Combat isnt 5 button swap 5 button? 

    Nope. Not even close. I mean if you are playing like an idiot maybe, but you'll be dead in short order. Now, if you are floolowing behind a large group, you can spam all you want and it won't matter. You won't do any real contributing, But you'll get away with it.

     

    Nothing the OP stated was a bunch of crazy fabrications...he just wants the game to be better...why such hostility? 

    Actually, easily 2-3 or more of the things he stated were fabrications, or just plain misunderstandings about the game. And there's nothing wronf with wanting it to be better. But he more or less stated the game was unplayable because it didn't have idiotic wow features like a DPS meter.

     

     

     

    This is what im talking about, im not even criticizing the game and your on the defensive.

     

    Seriously you guys need help....

    You were criticising it though through your "questions". You even further back your criticisms by saying that nothing the OP said was fabricated. All Terrant did was point out exactly where your criticisms were wrong in his eyes.

     

    Criticising the game is fine, but doing so on false information will end up with you being corrected like Terrant did. The whole "5 button swap button mashing" is something that has a small nugget of truth(you can certainly spam 5 abilities, swap, and do it again) but it is used in a false statement, IE All combat in GW2 is spamming 5 buttons, swapping weapon, and doing it again. If you try to do that in SPVP you will die...a lot, and not be useful. If you try that in harder PvE content, you will die a lot and probably never beat it. It's like saying all you had to do in WoW vanilla was autoattack. Could you kill some mobs with auto-attack? Certainly, but were you going to beat all of the raid bosses doing that? Not a chance.  In any MMO you can use a bad playstyle and get through most leveling content, that does not mean that is all there is to combat.

    At the very least GW2 combat is 18 abilities: 10 for weapons, 1 for swap, 1 for heal, 3 for utility, 1 for elite, 1 for dodge, 1 for class ability. At most it is well over 40+ abilitiess(elementalist+summoned weapons).

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by terrant
    (:::)

     

    What do you think the game would gain from having mounts. Do you feel it takes too long to get from Waypoint A to waypoint b?

     (...)

     

    It has been answered: fun. Depending on their vision of the game, introducing mounts could be a cost-efficient way to introduce more fun into the game.

    Now, I'm asking for trouble with this but...how is it fun? Because you can move a little faster? And don't give the "this way I can avoid trash mobs" disucssion, because that's easy enough as is. 

     

    I can see mounts as a "bundle" mechanic providing some new attacks, but only as a "from time to time" thing. Otherwise people would probably not use their normal skills in overland travel. Or the mount skills would be useless and no one would ever use them.

     

    Then there's other concerns. Do we level restrict it? Do we make it a gold sink? People are griping enough that it's too hard to earn money in this game (which I disagree, although I think the trait books should be a little cheaper). Good lord, go ahead and add another gold sink and watch the "p2W cash store" griping blow up, again.

     

    What about WvW? Do we allow it there? The sometimes lengthy run back to a fight in WvW is an important mechanic in preventing attackers and/or defenders from zerging more than they already do. If players can move much faster than they do now, it could seriosuly affect WvW keep assault balance.

     

    Oh, and as soon as you introduce mounts, you offer the possibility of cash shop mounts. And it all goes to hell from there.

     

    All in all, This is the value I see in a mount:

    • Near-useless runspeed buff
    • Possible combat mechanics that will either supercede normal ones, or be totally ignored
    • Either must be banned in PvP or could seriously affect balance
    • Might make the cash shop a bigger pain than it is
    • Looks cool
    • Every other game has them, so why shouldn't we?
     
    Now I know you can't easily quantify "fun", but I don't see where there's any real fun to be had in a mechanic that just isn't necessaryand won't provide you with anything but a big, slightly quicker toy to show off with.
     
    You ever see the family guy skit where Peter gets a big red sportscar? That's pretty much how I view mounts in this game. WoW's mechanics made them necessary, and Blizz makes hand over fist in their cash shop from them. But GW2's mechanics are designed from the ground up not to need them, and all that's left jsut doens't sem to be worth it to me. That's just my personal opinion, and I'm trying to understand yours. What's so fun about a mount?
  • KothosesKothoses GalwayPosts: 760Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by joocheese
    Originally posted by Nightgroper
    Originally posted by Siphaed
    Originally posted by brac777

    I can see why the game is not charging a sub at launch.  Its missing many basic QOL and functionalities of a standard MMO and its got some serious issues.

    15)  Your trolling effort is totally bust.  Please, stay in WoW where you belong.  All your complaints match that game to a "T" without need of mentioning the name.

    I agree.

    I also agree...

    I love the part that I highlighted... as if GW2 wasn't charging a sub a launch because they were intending on charging one later on. brac777 has WOW written all over it, clear as day!

    brac777, please stay with WOW, you're doing just fine there!

    Thats the way to ensure your choice of game is successful and lives a long and prosperous life, chase everyone off back to wow for daring to disagree with you and make fun of their name rather than offer any kind of debate of analysis. 

    Promoting thought a new Gaming video blog http://www.youtube.com/user/quinnthalas discussing games, gamers and the internet with gameplay footage as background.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member

    WOW fans are getting upset about GW2 i see.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by terrant
    (:::)

     

    What do you think the game would gain from having mounts. Do you feel it takes too long to get from Waypoint A to waypoint b?

     (...)

     

    It has been answered: fun. Depending on their vision of the game, introducing mounts could be a cost-efficient way to introduce more fun into the game.

    Now, I'm asking for trouble with this but...how is it fun? Because you can move a little faster? And don't give the "this way I can avoid trash mobs" disucssion, because that's easy enough as is. 

     

    I can see mounts as a "bundle" mechanic providing some new attacks, but only as a "from time to time" thing. Otherwise people would probably not use their normal skills in overland travel. Or the mount skills would be useless and no one would ever use them.

     

    Then there's other concerns. Do we level restrict it? Do we make it a gold sink? People are griping enough that it's too hard to earn money in this game (which I disagree, although I think the trait books should be a little cheaper). Good lord, go ahead and add another gold sink and watch the "p2W cash store" griping blow up, again.

     

    What about WvW? Do we allow it there? The sometimes lengthy run back to a fight in WvW is an important mechanic in preventing attackers and/or defenders from zerging more than they already do. If players can move much faster than they do now, it could seriosuly affect WvW keep assault balance.

     

    Oh, and as soon as you introduce mounts, you offer the possibility of cash shop mounts. And it all goes to hell from there.

     

    All in all, This is the value I see in a mount:

    • Near-useless runspeed buff
    • Possible combat mechanics that will either supercede normal ones, or be totally ignored
    • Either must be banned in PvP or could seriously affect balance
    • Might make the cash shop a bigger pain than it is
    • Looks cool
    • Every other game has them, so why shouldn't we?
     
    Now I know you can't easily quantify "fun", but I don't see where there's any real fun to be had in a mechanic that just isn't necessaryand won't provide you with anything but a big, slightly quicker toy to show off with.
     
    You ever see the family guy skit where Peter gets a big red sportscar? That's pretty much how I view mounts in this game. WoW's mechanics made them necessary, and Blizz makes hand over fist in their cash shop from them. But GW2's mechanics are designed from the ground up not to need them, and all that's left jsut doens't sem to be worth it to me. That's just my personal opinion, and I'm trying to understand yours. What's so fun about a mount?

     

    In a game where vanity matters a lot, do you really need to ask why people would enjoy them? People can have multiple reasons such as liking how things look while on a mount, just liking the idea of having something to ride on, etc. What can be measured is how many people would like them to be implemented and how much work would be required and thereafter make a decision whether or not the extra fun is worth the cost.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by Kothoses
    Originally posted by joocheese
    Originally posted by Nightgroper
    Originally posted by Siphaed
    Originally posted by brac777

    I can see why the game is not charging a sub at launch.  Its missing many basic QOL and functionalities of a standard MMO and its got some serious issues.

    15)  Your trolling effort is totally bust.  Please, stay in WoW where you belong.  All your complaints match that game to a "T" without need of mentioning the name.

    I agree.

    I also agree...

    I love the part that I highlighted... as if GW2 wasn't charging a sub a launch because they were intending on charging one later on. brac777 has WOW written all over it, clear as day!

    brac777, please stay with WOW, you're doing just fine there!

    Thats the way to ensure your choice of game is successful and lives a long and prosperous life, chase everyone off back to wow for daring to disagree with you and make fun of their name rather than offer any kind of debate of analysis. 

    Because he is trolling and if you can't see that then you're slow.

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    In a game where vanity matters a lot, do you really need to ask why people would enjoy them? People can have multiple reasons such as liking how things look while on a mount, just liking the idea of having something to ride on, etc. What can be measured is how many people would like them to be implemented and how much work would be required and thereafter make a decision whether or not the extra fun is worth the cost.

      Granted. Reference my comment about Family Guy though. I'm just not sure shuffling the everloving heck out of so many core game mechanics just to introduce what is nothing more or less than a penis extension is a good idea.

     

    If gameplay mechanics justified the need for mounts it would be different, in my eyes at least.

     

    And again, I shudder to think about the outcry if even a single mount showed up in the cash shop.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member

    On this board, I see that A.Net will be damned if they do and damned if they don't with certain things.

    GW2 is basically a PvE experience game with some PvP added. Granted GW1 was 1/2 PvE/1/2 PvP and that is where the problem came from. Balancing both is a huge issue.

    Also, look at all the different combination of computer hardware out there and making the game run well on all of them is pretty hard, but doable.

    I just tell A.Net, keep going forward with your vision for this game - people WILL play it.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member

    I understand that the OP is a TERA fan, so with that under consideration my response is simply this: those features that are supposedly "missing" are mostly design choices that many gamers find refreshing. 

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    In a game where vanity matters a lot, do you really need to ask why people would enjoy them? People can have multiple reasons such as liking how things look while on a mount, just liking the idea of having something to ride on, etc. What can be measured is how many people would like them to be implemented and how much work would be required and thereafter make a decision whether or not the extra fun is worth the cost.

      Granted. Reference my comment about Family Guy though. I'm just not sure shuffling the everloving heck out of so many core game mechanics just to introduce what is nothing more or less than a penis extension is a good idea.

     

    If gameplay mechanics justified the need for mounts it would be different, in my eyes at least.

     

    And again, I shudder to think about the outcry if even a single mount showed up in the cash shop.

     

    I don't think it is any worse than any other vanity already offered in the game. They are already catering to people who like vanity, so that is not a reason that should stop them from introducing mounts. 

     

    As for game mechanics: they can decide to what extent they affect other game mechanics. 

     

    I don't see why mounts in the cash shop would create any larger outcry than now as long as there are equivalent alternatives inside the game, just like with other vanity right now.

  • Effin_RabbitEffin_Rabbit Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 772Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nightgroper
    Originally posted by Siphaed
    Originally posted by brac777

    I can see why the game is not charging a sub at launch.  Its missing many basic QOL and functionalities of a standard MMO and its got some serious issues.

    No dungeon finder.  

    No Macros.

    No mounts.

    No DPS meter or at least a parsable combat log.

    Zones instead of an open world.

    Running directx 9, in 2012.  They might be updating this.

    Clunky movement and jumping.  Really noticeable when trying to do the vista achievements.

    Combat is a spam fest.  Mash 5 keys, weapon swap, mash 5 keys rinse repeat.  Definately a step sideways in combat department.

    PVE in the structured PVP matches.  Thats a joke.  They said they want this to be an E-Sport and they added PVE mobs that give points to a PVP match?  

    Broken Q in sPVP.  This one really irks me because this will be the second supposed "Tripple A" MMO that will launch in a year with a broken PVP Q.

    Extreme FPS and lag issues in WvW.  WvW is a complete zerg fest.

    Major bugs going on.  Sigils on weapons not working right. Abilities not working.  Abilities/traits/sigils with little to no description of what they actually do.  Traits not working right.  Ground AOE falling through the earth all over  the place and not working.  Ground placed items that don't work, fall through the ground.

    Class balance is non existant, one class can hit for 12k and burst someone down in about 3 seconds, while other classes are completely gimp.

    Ridiculous prices in the cash shop.  In a 500 man guild?  Get ready to pony up $40 on launch day to make your guild.

    Hope they can fix some of this stuff before launch, but I'm not to sure they can get even half of that stuff done.  Guess we'll have to settle for another sub par MMO launch.  Like I said earlier at least they aren't charging a sub.

     

    Just for reference, none of those things are "MISSING".  They're not in because they're not a core mechanic of the game and this game is mixing up the usual BS clones that other games have become.   

     

    1) /say and /map work great, no need for a lazy man's dungeon finder.  And the dungeons are marked on the map, what's there to find?

     

    2) Macros don't work for action-based combat.  And, they certain don't work when skills are changed with each weapon.  Also, again this is a lazy person's play style.  WHY?!

     

    3) Mounts?  Who needs those.  This game has speed buffs on almost every class, besides having Magical Waypoints and Asura Gates.  And, the exploration of this game makes players WANT to stop and smell the roses, not rush past them

     

    4)  DPS meter/Parser?  Really?  You want this to be a numbers race?  That stuff is so lame.  It's not FUN to just sit there and crunch numbers.  If you think it is,  please by all means there is FREEWARE that comes with all versions of Windows called a CALCULATOR.

     

    5)  The zones are huge!  So what if you have to portal.  Players had to do that in Age of Conan, WAR, City of Heroes, Champions, DC Universe, and dozens of other games.   Big whoop.   The zones have far more graphical prowas than that of other games too

     

    6) See part #5, but the graphics on this thing surpass that of Age of Conan, and it's DX10.  So, ya.  Just because it's DXwhatever, doesn't mean it sucks.  This game is B-E-A-UTIFUL!

     

    7) Um, no, it's not cluncky at all.  Where is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmc1ARITzk considered cluncky?

     

    8) You have no understanding of some of the PvP systems.  Sure, there's SOME PvE targets, but the main focus is PvP.  Tisk, tisk.

     

    10) Queues are being worked on, that's what a Beta is for.  They said it's getting revamped before launch.

     

    11) No FPS issues on my end, must be your computer.

     

    12) I've never ONCE seen issues with siege weapons, or abilities, going off wrong.  Care to give a specific detailed example?

     

    13) Yes, balance isn't 100% perfect. Oh, no!  It's still something they're working on.  I've never seen a class that can "3 hit" a person as you claim, but whatever.  The classes seem far more balanced than that of current state WoW, that's for sure.

     

    14)  Um, no.  It costs GOLD to get a 500 man guild registered, NOT GEMS.  Unless you're counting Gem-to-Gold conversion, which would be foolish of the guild.  They can just get every member to donate 5 Silver.  5x500=2500, or 25 GOLD.  Holy cow!  So easy!

     

    15)  Your trolling effort is totally bust.  Please, stay in WoW where you belong.  All your complaints match that game to a "T" without need of mentioning the name.

    I agree.

     

     

    Seconded, if people want those things from swtor, wow, etc then this game probably isnt for them. It's more action and tactics based than spamming, mashing and macroing.

  • MacecardMacecard WokingPosts: 142Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by brac777
    Originally posted by raven222
    Originally posted by brac777

    To Siphaed:

    1)  Yep because finding the entrance to a dungeon is the barrier that kept me from doing dungeons on the BWE3.  I'll illuminate you though, dungeon finder is an auto grouping tool, so that people don't have to sit in the city and spam chat.

    2)  Well if you consider tabbing over to a target and mashing a hotkey to be action combat, you need to play some different games.  Tera = action combat, Arkham City = action combat.  GW2 = 14 year old EQ combat model with some fluff and extra AOE added in.

    5)  Zones were OK 5-10 years ago with MMOs.   The tech exists for it to be one big world, and thats how it should be.  Breaks my immersion and its just old fashioned to have to portal to go into a city or to the zone next door.

    6)  Comparing a game that is launching in 2012 to a game that launched over 4 years ago.  Good stuff right there.

    8)  If PVP is the focus why are their bosses in the structured PVP zones.  That is just horrid idea, and one of many reasons why GW2 will not be an Esport.

    11)  As for lag and FPS issues in WvW, it wasn't just me, thats why they turned off WvW saturday night for a couple of hours.

    12)  Broken Abilities http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdORZQNbUDo here is a video of one ability.  Then the numerous engineer bugs like shield pushback not working or weapon sigils not affecting grenades and mMany others that I'm not gonna bother finding videos on.

    13)  I'm not gonna bother linking warriors that killshot for 12k and then bullrush + thousand blades on people.  But yes that combo = a 3 shot kill.  Or the Ele AOE that does 4k per tick in a giant circle.

    Why spend so much time and effort doing this.

    To be honest u don't need to worry ur favorite MMO will shine at top for years to come .

    U are wrong in all ur points , and it is obvious u like a game with completely different mechanics , the one u are obviously already playing so why not just stay there.

    So in all honesty why????

     

    So comparing GW2 graphics to Age of Conan graphics is a valid argument, "Guild wars 2 looks as good or better than AOC!!"  Really?  Thats about the worst argument I've seen in a long time.  Oh well, can lead a horse to water...

    Your Opinions are clearly based on other games (EG games containing group finders and balanced classes (Please point me in the direct of this fabled MO with balcanced classes)) So saying that other people in ths thread can't compare some elemnts of GW2 with specific games when you have clearly based sweeping assumptions about GW2 purely because its an MMO and you expected all these MMO features to be present (whats that based on if not other games that are "old")

    The way you have chosen to convey your displeasure with this game is clearly made to spark a trollfest and I fail to see what this achieves. You clearly don't like this game so don't play it and for that matter don't talk about it (unless you have something constructive to say)

    If you had done your research (or cared to not be a troll) you would know that GW2 is not made to be like any other MMO made before (ok so its similar but they are trying to break conventions) and you would not get your panties in a bunch over the fact that standard mmo features are missing.

    I hear Kitty Island Adventure is adding online play "OMG they better add raids and gear grinding and group finder asap otherwise I am going to kick off on their forum like there is no tomorrow".

    If you continue to make sweeping statements like you know what everyone everywhere thinks about a certain topic then I am going to shout at you.
    It easy to type 'I think this is the worst game ever'
    Rather than the 'This is the worst game ever'

  • cyraethcyraeth panamaPosts: 53Member

    Holy Shit is this tread stilll going haha! I think the OP acomplished he's mission....

     

    Guys the list is seriusly a bluff, just check the video response he replied me some pages ago.... think this has just become a joke to him.

    image

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