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Is it possible for TOR to survive

TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

When Guild Wars 2 and WoW  Panda launching?

I doubt it.

What do you guys think?

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

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Comments

  • kreakrea MaastrichtPosts: 193Member

    this again , well dont see why not if they addept to different pay model . This game still did sell loads of boxes compaired to alot of other new releases , and yes i know the game did cost loads of money to make but none of us knows exactly how much subs etc it needs to keep up.

  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member

    The game didn't draw me in, so dunno, don't care. Although if the recent news about SWtoR is anything to go by, they are definitely in for a world of hurt.

  • joocheesejoocheese San Antonio, TXPosts: 845Member

    Unfortunately, I don't think so.

    I say unfortunately due to all the hard working devs who lost their jobs due to poor management.

  • PaddyspubPaddyspub mcpherson, KSPosts: 104Member

    Maybe, but it will prob end up like WAR and be in maintenance mode with a bare-bones staff.   Another notch in the fail  line of would-be "The New Wow King MMO".  

     

    Unless BW or someone does a Reverse NGE and makes all the requested improvements to make TOR a "real" MMO.

    Tbe Repopulation will be what SWTOR shouldve been.

  • joocheesejoocheese San Antonio, TXPosts: 845Member
    Originally posted by Paddyspub

    Maybe, but it will prob end up like WAR and be in maintenance mode with a bare-bones staff.   Another notch in the fail  line of would-be "The New Wow King MMO".  

    Unless BW or someone does a Reverse NGE and makes all the requested improvements to make TOR a "real" MMO.

    very unlikely

  • ClawzonClawzon PitePosts: 192Member

    I don't know, this is actually a difficult one to answer and allow me to answer it from my point of view:

     

    It could survive as a small fanbased game similiar to WAR and some other games outhere allright.

    But survive as "the game is was intended to be" I would say NO! And what I mean by that is that it won't survive as the heavy story based/VO game that it was at release! Simply because it would take way to much effort, time and money to keep those cutscenes coming for every single quest aswell as endgame content for a small fanbase.

     

    So, will it survive?  As a maintainence game with minor updates.... Sure! And the fanboys will years from now keep on braggin what a success the game is since it's "still alive".

    But for me; The Game Is Dead!

    I'm sorry.

    :)

  • KickinPups2KickinPups2 wakefield, NHPosts: 48Member

    (Insert comments that tries to explain how fail SWOTR is)

     

    Short Answer NO!

  • MartyrA2JMartyrA2J Henderson, NVPosts: 26Member
    Originally posted by Clawzon

    I don't know, this is actually a difficult one to answer and allow me to answer it from my point of view:

     

    It could survive as a small fanbased game similiar to WAR and some other games outhere allright.

    But survive as "the game is was intended to be" I would say NO! And what I mean by that is that it won't survive as the heavy story based/VO game that it was at release! Simply because it would take way to much effort, time and money to keep those cutscenes coming for every single quest aswell as endgame content for a small fanbase.

     

    So, will it survive?  As a maintainence game with minor updates.... Sure! And the fanboys will years from now keep on braggin what a success the game is since it's "still alive".

    But for me; The Game Is Dead!

    I'm sorry.

    As someone who just unsubscribed from SWTOR I can say easily yes it will survive.

    The community is thriving and those who do ENJOY the game are doing that ...enjoying it but the game has alot of issues that need attending to and sadly I think Bioware is having to many internal problems to fix those problems within the next 6 months. If im wrong...great but otherwise its still a fun game.

    Alot of doom sayers and trolls seem to enjoy attacking it cause it didn't live up to expectations but for every troll there is somebody who did and is enjoying and playing the game as we speak. The expectations of 10 million subscribers is absurd and if that is what the company expected which I doubt...shame on them.

    Far as whom I quote...I think this guy over thinks the price of a getting a dink on microphone to record some lines and manipulate a game engine they specifically made so that they could have all the cut scenes and story they want at the the drop of a hat. SWTOR isn't what everyone wanted it to be but it will be to those who are playing and I don't see them leaving the game in droves.

    As always IMO

    M.

    As Always IMHO
    In my humble opinion.
    M.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    When Guild Wars 2 and WoW  Panda launching?

    I doubt it.

    What do you guys think?

    There is no reason to believe any substantial number of people still playing and enjoying TOR would stop playing it for PokeWorld of Pandacraft, or GW2.  Fundamentally different tastes being served.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member

    I wish I could remember which famous developer used to repeatedly claim that there was only a small market for MMORPGs where everyone was competing for the same player base. I think that’s an illusion developers and publishers created by trying to tap into the large number of WOW players by making a similar game as a supposed safer investment rather than attempting to grow the market with more finically risky yet innovative MMO game types...

     

    I personally don’t see GW2 as competition for subscription fees in that it’s B2P and most people I know that love games will pick it up and sub to another MMO game too as they have the sub budget set aside. The people who love the Star Wars IP are going to stick with it no matter what new dance moves come with Kung Fu Pandas.

     

    I do feel SWTOR will continue to lose subscribers though as there simply isn’t enough of the right kinds of content to build a real lasting community rather than just competition worries. It seems many theme park game developers think they can make it by trying to pull in more new players than they loose veterans at a time but does that ever really work? Their subscriber populations always shrink down to nothing that way rather than *gasp* grow.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member

    TOR is probably going to follow the exact same cycle most MMOS follow; people who finish the available content quit until there is more, then come back for just long enough to finish the new content.  Rinse and repeat.  That is the *normal* behavior in the MMO space, WoW is a bizarre fluke.  And given that different people define "finished" in different ways, and complete content at different speeds, as long as TOR doesn't have a glacial speed for new content deployment, it should never drop so many players that it becomes a financial imperative for EA to shut it down, and it should enjoy healthy population spikes every time an expansion comes out.  Which is the most an MMO can realistically hope for.

    And yeah, anybody who can stand the absolutely atrocious writing and voice acting in GW2's "personal" story is not likely to be someone who stuck with TOR very long past the first month.  Different strokes.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • Requiem6Requiem6 Saint-Hubert, QCPosts: 237Member

    TOR will survive for sure, if they go Free to play.

    If they go with a good Free to play model, it's their chance to survive and maybe be the best F2P out there.

     

    But going free to play is their only chance to survive.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by Requiem6

    TOR will survive for sure, if they go Free to play.

    If they go with a good Free to play model, it's their chance to survive and maybe be the best F2P out there.

     

    But going free to play is their only chance to survive.

    I don't think we have access to the necessary data to say they *must* go free to play (or more likely, Freemium) to survive.  I think they would probably have more players and make more money if they do, but that isn't the same thing as saying the game will get shut down if they don't.  As long as they have enough subscribers per month to be making more than their costs in that particular month, the game will survive, because there is no logical reason to throw away profit, however small.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • GamerUntouchGamerUntouch smithville ON, ONPosts: 488Member

    Diablo 3 basically kicked it in the gut and it's not even an MMO.

    GW2 will be the last straw, MoP won't even get a chance to damage it.

  • TuchakaTuchaka san diego, CAPosts: 468Member

    survive or thrive because I think when people talk about a game dying funny how those games seem to stick around for years. I don't think its a fixable game and even if all problems were fixed tommorow people wouldn't give it another try, so ya it will survive will it thrive .....hell no

     

      I think the die was cast awhile ago they are gonna go F2P and they are just taking a very gradual approach to this and doing it a bit at a time, to try and milk out every last penny before cutting it loose.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by GamerUntouch

    Diablo 3 basically kicked it in the gut and it's not even an MMO.

    GW2 will be the last straw, MoP won't even get a chance to damage it.

    This is complete nonsense.  Almost all of the types of gamer who will enjoy GW2 already left TOR months ago.  Ditto with PokeWorld of Pandacraft.  It's theoretically possible that TOR will eventually die, but it will be because people who are playing right now decide to leave, not because people who already left weeks or months ago start playing a different game.

    As for Diablo 3, it is an atrocious dungpile that spits on the Diablo franchise, and exists solely to funnel people into Blizzard's real money auction house, where they can rake in tons of money without having to provide any additional content.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    TOR is probably going to follow the exact same cycle most MMOS follow; people who finish the available content quit until there is more, then come back for just long enough to finish the new content.  Rinse and repeat.  That is the *normal* behavior in the MMO space, WoW is a bizarre fluke...

    The problem is that a few notable exceptions exist when you check sites like MMOdata.com. As just one example of three that I know of, EVE Online gains players year after year simply because of the play features they included too retain veterans. Though to my amuseent they also have one of the lowest retetion rates of new, incoming, players (but that's a differing topic.) Yet, developers keep making the same run the gamut theme parks rather than even attempting to retain a constant playerbase. Last check EVE had 355K subscription paying players and not one of the recently released supposed AAA games is likely to match that over time, much less show growth.

     

    It just leaves me perplexed that more development teams have not embraced the idea of building a sustained playing community over time rather than making what amounts to MMORPGs that feel like single player games with co-op features that you'll throw away in a month and perhaps reconsider for downloadable content once in a while when bored elsewhere. I hate thet we are complacent and have come to accept this trend. I mean, what happened to the virtual worlds the visionaries of the genre used to tout?

  • jeremyjodesjeremyjodes antioch, ORPosts: 679Member

    Sure It may be around for many years. Warhammer is still around. it's has many problems though. not sure but nothing short of a reverse NGE could help it become viable again.

    It needs a complete overhaul. but with the forums over there imploding and any real roadmap for future development and content. it don't look good.

    They Did good getting rid of Vogel. he was death for star wars galaxies and may have just killed SWTOR.

     

    Time will tell.

    image

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jeremyjodes

    Sure It may be around for many years. Warhammer is still around. it's has many problems though. not sure but nothing short of a reverse NGE could help it become viable again.

    It needs a complete overhaul. but with the forums over there imploding and any real roadmap for future development and content. it don't look good.

    They Did good getting rid of Vogel. he was death for star wars galaxies and may have just killed SWTOR.

     

    Time will tell.

    Warhammer does not have the SW IP to deal with through LA. SWTOR is safe until the IP needs to be renewed. EA reckoned SWTOR was good for ten years before it launched, so probably bought at least 5 years worth of it.

  • jeremyjodesjeremyjodes antioch, ORPosts: 679Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by jeremyjodes

    Sure It may be around for many years. Warhammer is still around. it's has many problems though. not sure but nothing short of a reverse NGE could help it become viable again.

    It needs a complete overhaul. but with the forums over there imploding and any real roadmap for future development and content. it don't look good.

    They Did good getting rid of Vogel. he was death for star wars galaxies and may have just killed SWTOR.

     

    Time will tell.

    Warhammer does not have the SW IP to deal with through LA. SWTOR is safe until the IP needs to be renewed. EA reckoned SWTOR was good for ten years before it launched, so probably bought at least 5 years worth of it.

    You have to remember as well, ohlen promised over 500 planets by 2025..just saying.

    image

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jeremyjodes
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by jeremyjodes

    Sure It may be around for many years. Warhammer is still around. it's has many problems though. not sure but nothing short of a reverse NGE could help it become viable again.

    It needs a complete overhaul. but with the forums over there imploding and any real roadmap for future development and content. it don't look good.

    They Did good getting rid of Vogel. he was death for star wars galaxies and may have just killed SWTOR.

     

    Time will tell.

    Warhammer does not have the SW IP to deal with through LA. SWTOR is safe until the IP needs to be renewed. EA reckoned SWTOR was good for ten years before it launched, so probably bought at least 5 years worth of it.

    You have to remember as well, ohlen promised over 500 planets by 2025..just saying.

    I do not see that happening now unless they bought the IP until 2030. They also said that they would keep adding content monthly or every other month, but have not been since 1.1. 1.2 and 1.3 has just been added game features, not exactly content.

  • latinkurolatinkuro ToulousePosts: 121Member

    Sure it will survive, but it will be just a shadow of what it once was.

    even than, it will take more than F2P, and some miracles to pull it off.

  • AmbrosiaAmorAmbrosiaAmor Miami, FLPosts: 915Member
    Yeah I can see it survive. I mean people keep using Warhammer Online as an example. I've even seen 2 people this past week say that the game is "still" a success (not this thread). I guess going from 80 servers to 2 is good? I mean SWTOR might go from 216 down to 26 in the very near future. Even from the official website there is a forum thread noting that the population is still declining among those servers.
     
     
    So if worst case scenario was 216 down to 26 down to 4 or 8... I mean sure. If Lucas Arts and the Suits from E.A. allow it, sure it can survive. But I don't think that is what they were expecting in less than 9 months, or something to be remotely considered a success is it (for the long term not short term)? I mean I'm still shocked those people consider Warhammer Online to be a success at this moment in time.

    image

  • GadarethGadareth Westcliff-on-SeaPosts: 313Member

    Yes I think it will survive. What we ned to realise thid is how ALL MMORPGS are going to be. Each new MMORPG released will have a initial massive surge of players. Then a large drop off as the more fical players speed through the content and then drop out waiting for the next new shiny.

    Each developer will need to choose a cutoff point what number of subscribers do they need to keep the game viable. I believe that SWTOR has enough long term players atm to be viable.

    Lets be honest every single new game is going to go through this process the days of the million + long term subs are at an end the so called WOW killer does not and will not exist at least not as a single entity. WOW will probably never die it will eventually just fade away as more and more newer MMORPGS draw away its players.

     

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member

    A service is a success any time it brings in more money than it costs to provide.  With an MMO, even if it never makes back development dollars made in prior years, as long as it is profitable on a month to month basis, it is technically successful.  It isn't like a single player game where the only revenue is the box sales, and if box sales < development costs, the game has failed.

    For survival, TOR only needs month to month profitability.  Whether or not it made back it's development costs only matters in terms of how much they will be willing to spend on expansions, or in terms of how many development dollars EA is willing to devote to future MMO projects.  And remember, we don't have solid numbers on how much they have made and spent, just speculation based on incomplete evidence.  It's entirely possible that while not making an obscene profit overall, they have still made one.  In which case TOR would still be a better use of resources on EA's part than many single player games end up being.  Games which fail to be profitable are quite common in the single player space.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

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