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GW2 needs one thing to make WvW as fun and as rewarding as DAoC's

ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

Realm Ranks or some sort of post level cap character advancement.  Even though its not about gear, thats pretty much all we have to work for (even if is only Aesthetic in value.  Well that and fun, which I'm sure will have oodles of but GW2 would do wonders to copy (or in ANets infinite wisdom, innovate) some of the most important aspects that made RvR so much enjoyable in DAoC.

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Comments

  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member

    Care to explain what realm ranks and AAs are for us that didn't play it?

  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member

    I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.

  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member
  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.

    guess you never understood quake then eh? :)

     

    anyway, RR in GW2:

    in daoc they have been used to buy better armor and stuff with stats and stuff, in GW2 they'd just be to buy gfaphics.,.. you think that would motivate those little item whores? :)

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.

    guess you never understood quake then eh? :)

     

    anyway, RR in GW2:

    in daoc they have been used to buy better armor and stuff with stats and stuff, in GW2 they'd just be to buy gfaphics.,.. you think that would motivate those little item whores? :)

    A-net certainly seems to be banking on said "item whores" judging by all the frivolous crap in the cash shop.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.

    guess you never understood quake then eh? :)

     

    anyway, RR in GW2:

    in daoc they have been used to buy better armor and stuff with stats and stuff, in GW2 they'd just be to buy gfaphics.,.. you think that would motivate those little item whores? :)

    better armor? You're thinking of WAR. In DAoC it got you better/more PvP skills.

  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member

    After reading links provided, I don't see Arenanet would give players special abilities for killing others, there's already titles for that and achievements. Also, this could make players elitists and gain perhaps unfair abilities or passive boosts, where Gw2 is trying to provide an equal ground for all pvp players. I know WvW is not balanced as sPvP but still when people reach end game there will be some balance. WvW is about server pride, and winning points gives boosts to entire server. Also, killing players drop loot and special trophies that can be exchanged for exclusive armor and weapons I think. I think that will provide enough interest for players to play WvW. So I vote no for this.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member

    The DAoC realm abilities is a self explanatory example of why I don't want any of that stuff in GW2. The last thing the game needs is some mechanic that makes elder character more powerful than new characters or alts, when it has managed to avoid that until now.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • jondifooljondifool cphPosts: 1,114Member
    Originally posted by Tardcore
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.

    guess you never understood quake then eh? :)

     

    anyway, RR in GW2:

    in daoc they have been used to buy better armor and stuff with stats and stuff, in GW2 they'd just be to buy gfaphics.,.. you think that would motivate those little item whores? :)

    A-net certainly seems to be banking on said "item whores" judging by all the frivolous crap in the cash shop.

    (I think the items whore is refering to those who is all about powerprogression through getting better gear.

    And we can stop the thread here, because this is something that ArenaNet is strictly against and that most of the fanbase admires them for. So if anyone want powerprogression through gear, go play another game , there is plenty of them. GW2 is not going to be one of them. And please stop asking the game for make changes that is fundemental against anything the compagny behind it stands for.)

    touche- i stand corrected. I missed on OP s post- and apologize for that.

    read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member

    Originally posted by Zeus.CM

    After reading links provided, I don't see Arenanet would give players special abilities for killing others, there's already titles for that and achievements. Also, this could make players elitists and gain perhaps unfair abilities or passive boosts, where Gw2 is trying to provide an equal ground for all pvp players. I know WvW is not balanced as sPvP but still when people reach end game there will be some balance. WvW is about server pride, and winning points gives boosts to entire server. Also, killing players drop loot and special trophies that can be exchanged for exclusive armor and weapons I think. I think that will provide enough interest for players to play WvW. So I vote no for this.

    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    The DAoC realm abilities is a self explanatory example of why I don't want any of that stuff in GW2. The last thing the game needs is some mechanic that makes elder character more powerful than new characters or alts, when it has managed to avoid that until now.

    Don't think anyone's talking about a rank system exactly like DAoC (it was seriously overpowered) but about a rank system with titles, cosmetic rewards and maybe a ladder(like this: http://darkageofcamelot.com/content/ywains-top-rp-earners-0727)

  • William12William12 Saint paul, MNPosts: 680Member

    the #1 reason I believe GW2 will not be as sucessful as it could be is character progresion. 

    I love the combat and the story and think the game is awesome so you fanboys don't flame me.

    With that said.   Only a minority are motivated by cosmetic items and story or gameplay itself.  ONCE you're max level and have played it over and over you need a motivation beyond that something to make your time invested into your character worth it.

    No gear grind the fanboys say omg this game is great no more gear grinds and I do understand it , but maority yes MAJORITY of people are motivated by the gear grind the problem is past games made that grind SOOOO boring because the gameplay was boring.  GW2 combat is fun and interesting a gear grind in GW2 would not of been as boring for most people because of this.   

    The only plus is you can buy the game and play the story and have fun and not be tied to a monthly fee or feel obligated to keep playing because you're paying 15$ a month which will also hurt the playerbase.

     

    Before one of the fanboys comes in and says they will play for the fun of it.  How long can you do something over and over every day every week before it is no longer fun  ?  People are human nothing remains fun for that long.  The truth is WvWvW is a zerg fest and if you have played any beta weekends you would know this.

  • 5hadow5hadow breePosts: 6Member

    This has nothing to do with DAOC

    but gw 1 had a nice reward system for some of the available pvp

    http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hero_(title)

    any idea if gw2 will have something similar?

    Havent found anything on it

  • otinanai123otinanai123 NowherePosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by 5hadow

    This has nothing to do with DAOC

    but gw 1 had a nice reward system for some of the available pvp

    http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hero_(title)

    any idea if gw2 will have something similar?

    Havent found anything on it

    sPvP does but WvW doesn't

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member
    Originally posted by jondifool
    Originally posted by Tardcore
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.

    guess you never understood quake then eh? :)

     

    anyway, RR in GW2:

    in daoc they have been used to buy better armor and stuff with stats and stuff, in GW2 they'd just be to buy gfaphics.,.. you think that would motivate those little item whores? :)

    A-net certainly seems to be banking on said "item whores" judging by all the frivolous crap in the cash shop.

    I think the items whore is refering to those who is all about powerprogression through getting better gear.

    And we can stop the thread here, because this is something that ArenaNet is strictly against and that most of the fanbase admires them for. So if anyone want powerprogression through gear, go play another game , there is plenty of them. GW2 is not going to be one of them. And please stop asking the game for make changes that is fundemental against anything the compagny behind it stands for.

    Right, and he stated that since GW2's progression is not gear centric the rewards would only be cosmetic and then implied that such cosmetic items would not have any motivational value to GW2 players. Which I found ironic as the company making the game is selling pointless cosmetic items in its cash shop FOR REAL MONEY. So if they expect their player base to shell out real cash for cosmetic items, I'd be willing to bet people would be motivated to WvW for them as well.

    Which by the way is what the OP was asking for and not "epic phat loots". Next time you decide to come in and act like the chat police it might behoove you to have some idea of WTF people are talking about before telling them what they can and can't discuss.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • SvarcanumSvarcanum SthlmPosts: 341Member Uncommon
    This is indeed the problem with gw2 both in wvw and Pve (hardcore spvp will have ranks). Once you reach level cap you will either roll an alt, do spvp or quit. There's no way around that. Maybe you'll play on and off for funsies. But the servers will most likely be quite empty, since there's no incentive to play hours on end. I firmly believe that gw2 needs to continue having progression after level cap. In Pve this could be progressively more difficult dungeons and uninstalled wvw realm ranks. Neither of these need to reward more power. But some kind of competitive progression is needed in wvw and pve and not exclusively in spvp.
  • SvarcanumSvarcanum SthlmPosts: 341Member Uncommon
    ANets business model is weird to say they least. They rely on people to shell out rl money for rp items. Yet it's the first game I've played in a long time that doesn't provide an rp server.
  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member

    I've seen people doing content for years in Asheron's Call for mostly purely cosmetic or decorative items... for fun. The concept just got lost when the EQ clone gear grind model became the norm.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • William12William12 Saint paul, MNPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    I've seen people doing content for years in Asheron's Call for mostly purely cosmetic or decorative items... for fun. The concept just got lost when the EQ clone gear grind model became the norm.

    So you seen millions of people doing this ?  Obviously not.   The point is if you want GW2 to attact the masses costmetic rewards are not enough.

     

    If you even played EQ you would know original EQ all the way up to  POR/TBS was not about gear sure newer expansion raid gear was better, but you could still use POP gear to beat newer expansions EQ didn't become the gear grind it is today until SOF when every expansion became a gear reset Pre SOF you went years with the same gear and were not at a huge disadvantage to people in new gear.   I raided EQ from day 1 to a year ago and from POP to POR tons of raiders barely upgraded gear.  They would get a few pieces every expansion but it was never a gear reset like it is now.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member

    There weren't millions playing MMORPGs back then, that argument is pointless. You have to stay in context.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

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  • jondifooljondifool cphPosts: 1,114Member
    Originally posted by Tardcore
    Originally posted by jondifool
    Originally posted by Tardcore
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by otinanai123

    I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.

    guess you never understood quake then eh? :)

     

    anyway, RR in GW2:

    in daoc they have been used to buy better armor and stuff with stats and stuff, in GW2 they'd just be to buy gfaphics.,.. you think that would motivate those little item whores? :)

    A-net certainly seems to be banking on said "item whores" judging by all the frivolous crap in the cash shop.

    I think the items whore is refering to those who is all about powerprogression through getting better gear.

    And we can stop the thread here, because this is something that ArenaNet is strictly against and that most of the fanbase admires them for. So if anyone want powerprogression through gear, go play another game , there is plenty of them. GW2 is not going to be one of them. And please stop asking the game for make changes that is fundemental against anything the compagny behind it stands for.

    Right, and he stated that since GW2's progression is not gear centric the rewards would only be cosmetic and then implied that such cosmetic items would not have any motivational value to GW2 players. Which I found ironic as the company making the game is selling pointless cosmetic items in its cash shop FOR REAL MONEY. So if they expect their player base to shell out real cash for cosmetic items, I'd be willing to bet people would be motivated to WvW for them as well.

    Which by the way is what the OP was asking for and not "epic phat loots". Next time you decide to come in and act like the chat police it might behoove you to have some idea of WTF people are talking about before telling them what they can and can't discuss.

    touche- i stand corrected. I missed on OPs post- and apologize for that.

    read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  • SvarcanumSvarcanum SthlmPosts: 341Member Uncommon
    Maybe there was a reason millions didn't play back then, huh?
  • The_emberThe_ember SheffieldPosts: 51Member
    Originally posted by William12

    the #1 reason I believe GW2 will not be as sucessful as it could be is character progresion. 

    I love the combat and the story and think the game is awesome so you fanboys don't flame me.

    With that said.   Only a minority are motivated by cosmetic items and story or gameplay itself.  ONCE you're max level and have played it over and over you need a motivation beyond that something to make your time invested into your character worth it.

    No gear grind the fanboys say omg this game is great no more gear grinds and I do understand it , but maority yes MAJORITY of people are motivated by the gear grind the problem is past games made that grind SOOOO boring because the gameplay was boring.  GW2 combat is fun and interesting a gear grind in GW2 would not of been as boring for most people because of this.   

    The only plus is you can buy the game and play the story and have fun and not be tied to a monthly fee or feel obligated to keep playing because you're paying 15$ a month which will also hurt the playerbase.

     

    Before one of the fanboys comes in and says they will play for the fun of it.  How long can you do something over and over every day every week before it is no longer fun  ?  People are human nothing remains fun for that long.  The truth is WvWvW is a zerg fest and if you have played any beta weekends you would know this.

     

    I agree with what you're saying. Although I love GW2 I don't think it will be as long-term successful as many are hoping simply because the lack of major progression will be a turn off point for alot of people. That being said, they could very well shift alot of copies right off the bat, and if the product/story is strong they could continue to shift expansion copies (for those who have completed the content and are not playing until more arrives). It will be extremely interesting to see how it all pans out.

     

    Anyway slightly distracted, the one point you made I take issue with is the underlined one, I've played all 3 BWE's now with around 10 or 11 people from my guild and we spent almost all of them in WvW capping tower points and disrupting supply lines. Whilst most of the keeps will be zerg focused, it's extremely easy to disrupt and stop their rampage by simply cutting off the resource points. Perhaps more than most open-world (easiest comparison to WvW here) mmo's I've played, small groups are very strong in GW2 if they communicate and move well. 

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by Svarcanum
    Maybe there was a reason millions didn't play back then, huh?

    Pretty much yes. Internet access was utterly expensive while also slow, and also not as easy as today, therefore all those online games were pretty much niche games even in 2000. Then, in 5 years, we moved to cheaper broadband Internet allowing 24/24 7/7 connections, easier to use, more powerful and cheaper PCs, and even a monkey can plug in a computer and install a game on it.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • SvarcanumSvarcanum SthlmPosts: 341Member Uncommon
    Not entirely correct Korrigan. The reason was WoW. Gear grind galore. Easy Internet access was not the reason it was a requirement.
  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by Svarcanum
    Not entirely correct Korrigan. The reason was WoW. Gear grind galore. Easy Internet access was not the reason it was a requirement.

    If you say so... :)

    It's obvious that WoW indeed provided a quality and polished game just in time for the big Internet rush.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

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