No... just no. I won't derail any more than stating NO!
As for the OP, I fear most of the people in this thread are right. There are one or two that MAY do those things and get them right but that's in the future. For now it may be best to take a break from the genre (And I don't mean that in any demeaning manner. I'm a bit sad that it's the best advice I can give.) The optimist in me will continue looking for that game, while the realist in me is saying "Walk away for at least a few years!".
Edit: Manor is not the same as manner
You say NO, like many other nay sayers on this thread, yet provide zero counter arguments? GW2 is offering a lot of what people are looking for in an MMO, and a LOT of what the OP is looking for. Huge, seemless world that rewards exploration, with a great sandbox feel to it. A non-WoWish quest system that makes sense, feels alive and is actually fun. Competitive PVP. Mass-Scale Siege PVP.
Insanely customizable chracters (everything from appearance, weapon/skill choices, traits, gear, gear enhancements, character story and attitude).
What else could you possibly want from an MMO? Oh it's not a Korean RNG grinder? There isn't a system where you're forced to group up with a raid of 40+ players to wack at the current "Big boss" so you can maybe get some "uber gear", so that you can be ready to go wack at the next big boss?
Seriously, it's obvious that you and many others on this thread have never even played GW2 and assume it's just GW1.5. You couldn't be further from the truth. I feel sorry for you though, because you're actually missing out on a quality game, the likes of which we haven't seen in many years.
As already stated, the OP is looking for more sandbox, less themepark. GW 2 is a themepark MMO. I didn't think this was actually up for debate? I have stated my opinions on the game in the appropriate section of the forums. If you didn't care to read it, I can't help you.
As someone else stated I have to agree with Vanguard. it's a throwback to older MMOs. May want to wait for the F2P switch for the boom (hopefully) in population. That's what I am currently waiting for at the moment. Vanguard gives me that old feeling, it just really needs more people playing it.
There is nothing sandbox about GW2, nothing, it's all dev created content.
The fact that you can go to different areas to lvl up doens't make it a sandbox lol.
Oh so you played ArcheAge? really? when? LOL
In GW2, you either grind dynamic events, instanced dungeons, or WwW PVP, there is nothing else to do, it's just another hyped themepark.
In ArcheAge, if you are grinding kill 10 quests, you are doing it wrong, there is literally hundreds of stuff to do, from fishing, cooking, making your own house, ship, even a town with your guild.
Plus it also has Dynamic Events... but i guess you didn't find them when you played it (lol).
GW2 is an open themepark, that's it, it's not a sandbox, do you even know what a sandbox is? have you played one in your life?
GW2 offers seamless non instanced world? what?
There are loading screens between all the zones, the dungeons are instanced, where is the open seamless non instanced stuff you are talking about?
GW2 is not a sandbox, it's a themepark, there is no sand, shallow crafting, shallow player interaction (soft grouping, PVP against random servers with no-name players in pre-defined zones with pre-defined objectives, plus you don't own anything there)
You can't interact with the world in any way, you can't build anything, the crafting seems useless, where is the sandbox? reallly? just because it's open doesn't make it a sandbox.
DAoC was open and it wasn't a sandbox, EQ, Lineage 2, those where open themeparks, not sandboxes, and if i may add, with much more freedom than GW2.
I've played CBT 2 3 and 4. As I said, I lived in Korea for a long time and when make Korean gaming friends, it's easy to get keys for Asian games. Also, any games that require local IP can be tricked with a proxy server. (You know all this I'm sure).
I played the closed and Open korean betas for many MMORPGs, to include Aion, Tera, Continent of the 9th, Blade N Soul and Archeage.
And your opinion of what makes Sandbox is just that, your opinion. Especially since the you say "Player driven content" yet the best examples you can come up with is a plethora of CRAFTING features. Seems like you don't care about Roleplaying, or Lore, or epic events, dungeons, large worlds, freedom of exploration, character creation/customization or siege warfare. All you want is some Crafter Wet Dream Game of building boats and housing and filling up your in-game bank with coin pixels.
And your opinion that EQ, L2 and DAOC had "More freedom" than GW2 only further proves you have never even entered the game once. Another no name who talks out his rear, go figure...
Also, taken straight from the GW2 wiki (and from personal experience I agree)
In my experience, I ran from a lvl 1 to 15 area, to a 16 to 25 area, and then to a 26 to 35 area without seeing a single loading screen. And each of those areas in themselves are massive, non-linear, and reward exploration. If that's not seemless enough for you, get a SSD.
Are there going to be loading screens? Is it a completely seamless world?
It's largely seamless, but there will be interruptions at times to allow your computer to load large environments and enable smoother transitions the majority of the time. You will see a loading screen when you transfer between two major zones (e.g. leaving a city) and a brief delay when transfering between waypoints within a zone. There are very few portals between explorable zones, which means that you are less likely to notice them compared to those in Guild Wars
Ok, it was fun while it lasted, now it's getting sad.
GW2 a hybrid, a sandbox, wow, that's a new one.
Plus no new arguments, just baiitng.
Yeah...
I guess if all you care about is sitting around a woodworking table and making planks all day to craft a house... it's not "sandbox".
Care to give me any examples of "Player driven content" that would equate to sandboxing besides Crafting? Hmmm maybe cruising around on a boat acting like a pirate in archeage and ganking other boat using players and stealing from them?
If in that case, All you need to sandbox a game is to throw a buncha low life gankers and crafting addicts into a world, give them nothing to do but make shirts and kill each other all day.
People who think that's what makes a "sandbox" is the reason why the genre is near-dead.
Had to register just to reply to this, as the OP is spot on in my opinion!
You're not hardcore because you miss the old school MMORPGS. Let me list a few things that I loved about the earlier MMOs.
[Asheron's Call]
- Learning magic; Anyone remember "You fizzled..."? Learning magic meant you had to combine certain ingredients that together created a magic spell. You needed to carry around ingredients, tons of them, at least in the early days. You could learn magic and even use it even though you weren't ready for it yet, you would just "fizzle" a lot more :-)
- Motes, shards, Penumbras/Umbra, Lurkers, mobs and items that had value and that you would come across just running around, getting these items or finding these mobs were exciting!
- The fact that you could throw a spell to lower a mobs armor and then fire an arrow that almost killed it instantly made it possible to almost be "god", but when that spell fizzled the mob owned you hard! Those moments were both awesome and frustrating!
- Taking a group to Direlands in search for a special stone for a certain special sword, getting there was hard, and the dungeons required cooperation and jumping skills!
[EverQuest 2]
- Harvesting; The chance of getting unique items when harvesting resources around the land had me loot every single resource I saw, just because it was so exciting to see if I got that unique high valued item, every harvest was like a lottery.
- Doing epic quests that were fun and gave rewards you could decorate your house with.
- Someone using their house as a bar and spending most of their online time running it. After a good hunt you could drop in there, take a drink and brag about your kills!
[Ultima Online]
- Housing; Housing actually took place in THE WORLD, not some instance that everyone else could get. Location, location, location... getting the right location for your house, tower, castle, whatever meant a lot for sales. The fact that not everyone could own the same home made homes special, it made you look up to people to were lucky to own them or it made you feel special if you were lucky enough to own them. Sure, it made travel tricky sometimes and sure homes cluttered the world, but I still loved it.
- Training pets that were super strong and could quite possibly kill you in the process and then using that pet to kill hard mobs for you and if you blew it and lost the pet you were probably dead to the mob... it was tough, but so rewarding when you made it!
[Anarchy Online]
- XP; Having been out hunting/mob killing for hours only to die returning to save your XP pool and lose it all! Sure, it was frustrating then and there, but it made things exciting, you actually got a feeling, good or bad, doing something.
These are just some of the memorable mechanics these games allowed for. All the magic moments in todays games are gone. I feel nothing, it's target mob, kill, rinse/repeat without any consequence at all. I do not for the life of me understand why that is preferred over the other. Why should everyone have the right to own a house at the best locations? Why should everyone be entitled to the same epic items?
Anyways, miss the old days as well!
Very good points! Do you think the current mmorpg community would put up with spell fizzling?
As to being memorable, for me, the last game was City of Heroes travel powers. It's not much, but it was certainly fun and brings back fond memories.
Over the past coupule of years I went back and played Wizardy 1 and SSI gold box pool of radiance. It was a fun time despite the clunky gameplay. DOOM and EQ1 both left me feeling kind of meh. As bad as the graphics were, I think having bad 3D graphics was harder on me than horrible 2D and isomorphic graphics.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
WOW has several areas to choose where to lvl up in different level ranges.
Suddenly, WOW is a hybrid.
Low life gankers, crafting addicts, "uber gear", korean grindfest, "big boss"
Do you have any other cheap cliches?
I mean it's funny because you say all those things while being a fan of a game that only has combat as content... and it's a sandbox... right?
That quote was meaningless, it's not seamless, it's instanced, it has loading screens, the pvp is zoned, how is that "open world"?
ArcheAge is non instanced, there isn't a single instance, only one battleground for siege practice, now thats an open world MMO.
But i guess you knew that... since you played it, lol.
It's not just crafting, crafting leads to other things, like caravans, player made factions, player made cities, naval warfare, sieges, politics, guild wars, real exploriation, territorial control, everything is connected.
That's how sandboxes are, different playstyle options.
GW2 lacks all those things, you either kill mobs in dynamic events... pick apples in dynamic events.... or...
Kill mobs in heart quests.
Oh... you can also kill players in PVP
...
You can't even pick apples without having a dynamic event asking you to pick those apples.
In a sandbox... or a hybrid... or whatever, i should be able to pick those apples and make an apple pie whenever i want.
But i guess im a crafting addict.... or maybe you don't know what are you talking about since you never actually played a sandbox MMO.
I will not pretend to say it will be perfect,heck it's main selling point seems to be a pvp structure that offers way more than simple instanced battle grounds.I am not even into pvp,but having it open world and with added features like ships and water fighting intrigues me a bit.Hang gliding,definitely a different twist we are not used to seeing.
Best thing to do is look for the many you tube videos and you will see lots of new ideas.
You will not find videos of devs bragging about their art team or anything,that alone is a breathe of fresh air as i tire of marketing hype,i prefer product over talk.
I will mention what scares me,as i might not like it because i am a traditionalist when comes to class design.Their design will be imo severely restricted.It might all change by time th egame goes live but the idea is to have 10 skills within each class to choose from but you can only learn 3.This aspect right there is going to be a hot topic in the future,i know it.
Myself i will be looking at the depth of these skills.I mention this becuase the lead guy says they do not plan on making any skill to overpowering to stay clear of arguments over classes.Does this mean some pretty ho hum boring skills?I can't answer that just yet,we will have to wait and see i guess.They mention versatilty and lots of variation,but if one skill is "healing" i guarantee 90% of the players will all have the same builds.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Neverwinter looked very promising to me, but I am starting to have my doubts now.
It promises user created dungeons, which sounds REALLY awesome, yet it is completely and utterly free...so...that leads me to believe that they will just charge the crap out of items for making anything that resembles an actual dungeon...
I will not pretend to say it will be perfect,heck it's main selling point seems to be a pvp structure that offers way more than simple instanced battle grounds.I am not even into pvp,but having it open world and with added features like ships and water fighting intrigues me a bit.Hang gliding,definitely a different twist we are not used to seeing.
Best thing to do is look for the many you tube videos and you will see lots of new ideas.
You will not find videos of devs bragging about their art team or anything,that alone is a breathe of fresh air as i tire of marketing hype,i prefer product over talk.
I will mention what scares me,as i might not like it because i am a traditionalist when comes to class design.Their design will be imo severely restricted.It might all change by time th egame goes live but the idea is to have 10 skills within each class to choose from but you can only learn 3.This aspect right there is going to be a hot topic in the future,i know it.
Myself i will be looking at the depth of these skills.I mention this becuase the lead guy says they do not plan on making any skill to overpowering to stay clear of arguments over classes.Does this mean some pretty ho hum boring skills?I can't answer that just yet,we will have to wait and see i guess.They mention versatilty and lots of variation,but if one skill is "healing" i guarantee 90% of the players will all have the same builds.
That is what really gives me confidence about AA, it's on closed beta yet there is no NDA, players are free to upload whatever they want.
Im not sure if i understanded your point about the 10 skills, from what i've seen in this video, there are 144 different class combinations, since you have to pick 3 out of 10 different combat schools.
The only AAA games that really look promising are ArcheAge and World of Darkness. Unfortunately, both appear to be pretty far away (at least for NA/EU for ArcheAge). WoD is probably several years away.
Most major game companies appear intent on cranking out more-of-the-same, casual themepark-style games. Indies are the only other respite from that trend.
But i guess im a crafting addict.... or maybe you don't know what are you talking about since you never actually played a sandbox MMO.
Personally I dominated in UO-pre trammell and Shadowbane, and I played both Darkfall and Mortal Online.
Shadowbane had no PVE content and the siege system was a joke compared to GW2 (but it's a much older game so not even fair to compare)
The problem is that all sandbox games all lack content and their Gameplay mechanics are ALL terrible (Shadowbane click to move, Darkfall and mortal online's combat is terrible and bland to say the least, etc)
PVE content in all 3 games was near non-existant.
The only sandbox aspects of those games when it comes right down to it were the fact that you could build stuff in the world and kill anyone you wanted (So all player run content envolved killing each other).
- GW2 offers the best Siege warfare (READ OWPVP, just because they seperate it from the PVE content does not take away from it's purpose, or it's legitimacy)
The world has "level ranges", sure, but the areas themself are not linear, and there are many ways to progress and exploration is the key to the game. Further more, once you've capped your character *lvl 80*. Their system allows you to do ANY content in the game, regardless of what level it is. It scales your character to the right level for the area seemlessly and you do it (rewards are also scalled UP to your real level, so any content you do decide to do is viable). This is Sandbox in nature (The off the rails do what you want aspect) and freedom many themepark games lack.
Skyrim, Marrowind, Oblivion have similar systems. Monsters scale to the right level, you are free to play how you want, but some stuff in the game is set at certain difficulty levels.
The big unique and huge selling point of GW2 is the fact that the PVE content, the DE's, actually change the world. Especially the later level content. Save a town from orcs, the town thrives. Lose the fight or ignore their plight and it's taken over by the monsters. This is the kind of PVE content people are looking for. PVE that matters, makes a difference, has consequence and real rewards outside exp/loot.
Yet you're more worried about 2 or 3 second loading screens once every 4 miles of gameplay instead of what really matters.
I don't know why I'm bothering explaining anything to you...
It's obvious all you're looking for is EverCraft: Journey to the Bank! Where you sit around and build houses and boats, and the most "content" you get are zerg / gank pvp fests.
Archeage suits you well. Have fun killing those 1000 orcs sitting in a field, lifeless, doing nothing, so that you can take their hides and craft curtains for your Barbie Dream House.
Must be fun not having any games to look forward too.
Me though, I got my eye on 2 games, both with the number 2 in it, GW2/PS2. GW2 for my MMO fix, that progression feeling, a virtual world blah blah blah... PS2 for that intense FPS feeling. I just got back into GRFS to pass time before GW2, and strangely, i'm following PS2 now more than GW2... Can you say Galaxy Pilot reporting for duty!
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
It's always going to seem like ‘more of the same’ if you compare to immediate predecessors. That's evolution for you.
Remember when everything was just like EverQuest? There was no line we crossed at which that stopped—it faded away imperceptibly, and now EverQuest is often regarded as a relic of ‘the good old days’ while World of WarCraft is the touchstone, even though it, too, was once regarded as an EQ clone.
I think some of us just need to stop watching the kettle for a while.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
GW2 doesn't have open world PVP and it's not a sandbox or a hybrid.
It's a themepark.
OP is looking for a sandbox game.
That's about it....
Oh and i will have fun with ArcheAge, unlike GW2, it will hold my attention for more than 2-3 months like every other shallow themepark MMO with no player created content and kill 10 quests... i mean Dynamic Events.
GW2 doesn't have open world PVP and it's not a sandbox or a hybrid.
It's a themepark.
OP is looking for a sandbox game.
That's about it....
Oh and i will have fun with ArcheAge, unlike GW2, it will hold my attention for more than 2-3 months like every other shallow themepark MMO with no player created content and kill 10 quests... i mean Dynamic Events.
[mod edit]
Imo, GW2 does have OWPVP. The landmass where the Siege warfare takes place is 10 square miles large, with hundreds of forts and objectives to attack and defend.
You seem to think OWPVP has to constitute some sort of FFA PVE world where people are allowed to kill and steal from each other at any time. That may be your opinion (that you want a mixed PVE + PVP world), but that's not what "makes a sandbox" and everyone has their own definition of what one is.
PVE + PVP FFA didn't work in Shadowbane, it didn't work in DF, it didn't work in SWG, it didn't work in MO. What makes you think Archeage is going to be some bastion of amazing PVP? Aside from the combat system being about as boring as WoW's? We already know the PVE in Archeage is extremely bland and average (Works exactly like standard themepark quests), so you think the ability to build houses and gank people is going to be some sort of amazing experience?
[mod edit]
GW2 is estimated to sell 3 million copies by the end of 2012. We're not hurting for players.
GW2 doesn't have open world PVP and it's not a sandbox or a hybrid.
It's a themepark.
OP is looking for a sandbox game.
That's about it....
Oh and i will have fun with ArcheAge, unlike GW2, it will hold my attention for more than 2-3 months like every other shallow themepark MMO with no player created content and kill 10 quests... i mean Dynamic Events.
[mod edit]
Imo, GW2 does have OWPVP. The landmass where the Siege warfare takes place is 10 square miles large, with hundreds of forts and objectives to attack and defend.
You seem to think OWPVP has to constitute some sort of FFA PVE world where people are allowed to kill and steal from each other at any time. That may be your opinion (that you want a mixed PVE + PVP world), but that's not what "makes a sandbox" and everyone has their own definition of what one is.
PVE + PVP FFA didn't work in Shadowbane, it didn't work in DF, it didn't work in SWG, it didn't work in MO. What makes you think Archeage is going to be some bastion of amazing PVP? Aside from the combat system being about as boring as WoW's? We already know the PVE in Archeage is extremely bland and average (Works exactly like standard themepark quests), so you think the ability to build houses and gank people is going to be some sort of amazing experience?
[mod edit]
GW2 is estimated to sell 3 million copies by the end of 2012. We're not hurting for players.
Immersion makes good pvp.
PVP has been put in a tiny little box, and still it's one group steamrolling the other. Only now the loser gets a reward and xp and whatever else they can hand out to the lambs to lead them to the wolves. It's the same as always.
I know you said you think GW2 sucks, but it doesnt.
That being said I am very much looking forward to the following games:
GW2
Neverwinter
TESO
The War Z
possibly Blizzard's Titan Project. Holding out hope it does for PvE Sandbox games what WoW did for PvE Themepark games.
Other games I know alot of people are hyped about that I am not are: Archeage, Repopulation, Planetside 2 or any of the myriad of indie games that have grown a cult like following here on mmorpg.com jsut because it has the word sandbox in its description bio. You would think with the failure of MO and DF people would realize that games like Salem, Embers of Caerus, and Repopulation have little chance in becoming mainsteam or for that fact any good.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Anyways @ OP and maybe others. There will never be a MMORPG like the originals. UO - EQ1 - DAOC - SWG
There isn't any money to be made because of how MMORPG has evolved. (yeah its blizzards fault with WoW but hey, they rich now which is the point of developing software for profit)
What I do is play those old games on free shards. Emulation servers set to act like the originals.
Eq 1- Project 1999 - If you like a huge world, tons of content, grouping and unforgiving death penalties, its great. I got a 57 warrior there. Pretty active server, around 500-700 at peaks.
DAOC - Uthgard free shard - Grouping - RVR PVP - still lots of fun, got a troll zerker, rr6 or so.
UO and SWG - haven't researched any emulation servers yet...I'm sure they exist though.
So to OP if you want that old school gaming experience, with a bunch of like minded people, that is your best bet.
GW2 doesn't have open world PVP and it's not a sandbox or a hybrid.
It's a themepark.
OP is looking for a sandbox game.
That's about it....
Oh and i will have fun with ArcheAge, unlike GW2, it will hold my attention for more than 2-3 months like every other shallow themepark MMO with no player created content and kill 10 quests... i mean Dynamic Events.
If all it takes is crafting houses, ganking people while PVEing and killing mindless/lifeless NPCs over and over again to entertain you, I feel sorry for ya.
Imo, GW2 does have OWPVP. The landmass where the Siege warfare takes place is 10 square miles large, with hundreds of forts and objectives to attack and defend.
You seem to think OWPVP has to constitute some sort of FFA PVE world where people are allowed to kill and steal from each other at any time. That may be your opinion (that you want a mixed PVE + PVP world), but that's not what "makes a sandbox" and everyone has their own definition of what one is.
PVE + PVP FFA didn't work in Shadowbane, it didn't work in DF, it didn't work in SWG, it didn't work in MO. What makes you think Archeage is going to be some bastion of amazing PVP? Aside from the combat system being about as boring as WoW's? We already know the PVE in Archeage is extremely bland and average (Works exactly like standard themepark quests), so you think the ability to build houses and gank people is going to be some sort of amazing experience?
I'm done talking to you, kid. Enjoy making your dresses in Archeage.
GW2 is estimated to sell 3 million copies by the end of 2012. We're not hurting for players.
Another cliche, WOW has open world PVP and it's not a FFA gankfest.
GW2 has 3 or 4 zones where people go to PVP, that's the exact opposite of open world PVP.
So you dominated in UO-Pre trammel??
Feel sorry for me? kid? why are you so angry? We are talking about games here.... lol
3 Million sales... woot!, and then in 1 year it will have 300k players, just like every other over hyped mainstream casual themepark.
You talk like if ArcheAge was a themepark and GW2 a sandbox.
In one you either kill mobs... or kill players in PVP, there is nothing else to do.
In the other one, you can do whatever you want, from crafting a town with your guild, crafting your own ship, your own glider, having your own farm, cutting down trees, underwater treasure hunting, having mounts, a skillbar with more than 5 buttons, massive non-instanced world with player crated factions, politics, open world dungeons, a real economy, no instant teleport, no soft grouping, etc etc etc
Which one is a sandbox/hybrid and which one is a themepark?
"The big unique and huge selling point of GW2 is the fact that the PVE content, the DE's, actually change the world. Especially the later level content. Save a town from orcs, the town thrives. Lose the fight or ignore their plight and it's taken over by the monsters. This is the kind of PVE content people are looking for. PVE that matters, makes a difference, has consequence and real rewards outside exp/loot."
Seriously? nothing changes, 10 minutes later it's the same scripted event again. How is that PVE with consequences and "real rewards"? lol
Man, if they'd just make EQ1 with updated graphics and engine, oh and 3rd person, the 1st person view was the only thing i didn't like about eq1. (they had a 3rd person option but it wasn't very good, not natural)
Oh, and tweak the classes some, but nothing huge.
I'd be such a huge fan. I'd heard that's what they're doing with eq next, but pay 2 win is going to be there payment method and that can only end badly.
I used to think i wanted a sandbox, I don't. Crafting bores me, owning a house is a hassle not something to be excited about, I don't want to own a plot of land. I don't like to quest either though. I want to kill things, explore and have the lore revealed to me that way. I guess I want what's being refered to as an open theme park.
GW2 seems to have promise, at least short term, for my personal taste there is too much pew pew pew pew going on in that game.
GW2 has 3 or 4 zones where people go to PVP, that's the exact opposite of open world PVP
3 Million sales... woot!, and then in 1 year it will have 300k players, just like every other over hyped mainstream casual themepark.
You talk like if ArcheAge was a themepark and GW2 a sandbox.
In one you either kill mobs... or kill players in PVP, there is nothing else to do.
In the other one, you can do whatever you want, from crafting a town with your guild, crafting your own ship, your own glider, having your own farm, cutting down trees, underwater treasure hunting, having mounts, a skillbar with more than 5 buttons, massive non-instanced world with player crated factions, politics, open world dungeons, a real economy, no instant teleport, no soft grouping, etc etc etc
Which one is a sandbox/hybrid and which one is a themepark?
"The big unique and huge selling point of GW2 is the fact that the PVE content, the DE's, actually change the world. Especially the later level content. Save a town from orcs, the town thrives. Lose the fight or ignore their plight and it's taken over by the monsters. This is the kind of PVE content people are looking for. PVE that matters, makes a difference, has consequence and real rewards outside exp/loot."
Seriously? nothing changes, 10 minutes later it's the same scripted event again. How is that PVE with consequences and "real rewards"? lol
GW2 has ~15 button skill bar (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
GW2 you can cut down trees (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
GW2 the DE events don't work anything like you described, outside a handful of nooby zone starter DE's. Most of the mid to end game DE's are chaining events, that cycle over a long period of time and have multiple possible outcomes depending on the success and failures throughout the chain. (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
GW2 has Hard Grouping and soft grouping (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
GW2 has underwater exploration (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
Darkfall is a sandbox and has instant teleporting (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
GW2 doesn't have mounts. Good job.
GW sold over 6 and a half million copies over the course of 6 years (So a lot more than 300k people kept interest for more than 3 months apparently)
Darkfall had 300k people (maybe 200k) try the beta. The game currently has 4 servers with ~1000 active players each. So I guess about 192k, about 92% of the people who played the game couldn't be bothered to stick around (Guess it had too much playe made-content eh?)
Mortal Online has ~2000 players messing around with the game.
SWG was tanking even before they made the terrible changes to it, and it' completely dead now.
EvE is the ONLY success sandbox as of yet. And for good reason.
GW is about 7 years old and has more active players than every sandbox MMORPG that's currently running put together by about 20 fold. (Excluding EvE)
Not saying Sandbox is bad, far from it. I've played them all because I want them to be great and I enjoy the play style. But obviously what some of you people think a "sandbox" is supposed to be is not the right way to go about doing it.
Archeage has the graphics. It has the weeaboo appeal with the art and animation style. It has "sandbox" elements that are fun. But the rest of the game is hollow and that's why it will tank like the rest.
I can't remember how much I paid for GW1, not sure if it's 10$ or 5$. Everything is cheaper in asia(Taiwan). I don't think we even need to pay for the mist of panda expansion. We just get it.
I think GW2 have potential. Hopefully they'll keep releasing new expansion etc every year or two.
I dont' think it's fair to say GW1 have more current subscriber compare to other games, since it's virtually free after the initial payment. Besides no one really know how many people actually is playing GW1 monthly. Besides from xfire.
GW2 has 3 or 4 zones where people go to PVP, that's the exact opposite of open world PVP
3 Million sales... woot!, and then in 1 year it will have 300k players, just like every other over hyped mainstream casual themepark.
You talk like if ArcheAge was a themepark and GW2 a sandbox.
In one you either kill mobs... or kill players in PVP, there is nothing else to do.
In the other one, you can do whatever you want, from crafting a town with your guild, crafting your own ship, your own glider, having your own farm, cutting down trees, underwater treasure hunting, having mounts, a skillbar with more than 5 buttons, massive non-instanced world with player crated factions, politics, open world dungeons, a real economy, no instant teleport, no soft grouping, etc etc etc
Which one is a sandbox/hybrid and which one is a themepark?
"The big unique and huge selling point of GW2 is the fact that the PVE content, the DE's, actually change the world. Especially the later level content. Save a town from orcs, the town thrives. Lose the fight or ignore their plight and it's taken over by the monsters. This is the kind of PVE content people are looking for. PVE that matters, makes a difference, has consequence and real rewards outside exp/loot."
Seriously? nothing changes, 10 minutes later it's the same scripted event again. How is that PVE with consequences and "real rewards"? lol
GW2 has ~15 button skill bar (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
Still very limited.
GW2 you can cut down trees (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
In Dynamic Events, and you can't do anything with them.
And even if you can craft something with it, the crafting in GW2 is shallow as hell so who actually cares.
Look at the big picture, in ArcheAge you plant your own trees in your garden and them cut them down.
In GW2, you are doing Dynamic Event objectives... a same old pick this quest.
GW2 the DE events don't work anything like you described, outside a handful of nooby zone starter DE's. Most of the mid to end game DE's are chaining events, that cycle over a long period of time and have multiple possible outcomes depending on the success and failures throughout the chain. (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
10 minutes, 30 minutes, it's still the same, nothing really happens. And the majority of DE are all mostly generic kill something or pick something, only a limited amount of DEs chain, it's scripted content that recycles all the time, it's still the same old, kill mobs for XP so you can lvl up... that's the whole game.
GW2 has Hard Grouping and soft grouping (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
Everyone auto joins while a Dynamic Event starts, nobody says a word, the event ends, everyone leaves, exactly like in rift, soft grouping, no community. Of course you can start your own group too, doesn't change the fact that the grouping in GW2 is very very casual.
GW2 has underwater exploration (You wouldn't know since you never played the game
I wouldn't call that exploration, it's just another place where you can kill mobs, you can't really do anything there.
Darkfall is a sandbox and has instant teleporting (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
So? doesn't change the fact that instant teleporting is an extremely casual feature that kills the open world feel and makes the world empty and dead.
GW2 doesn't have mounts. Good job.
GW sold over 6 and a half million copies over the course of 6 years (So a lot more than 300k people kept interest for more than 3 months apparently,
Honestly, i don't know, i couldn't play GW1 for more than a week.
Darkfall had 300k people (maybe 200k) try the beta. The game currently has 4 servers with ~1000 active players each. So I guess about 192k, about 92% of the people who played the game couldn't be bothered to stick around (Guess it had too much playe made-content eh?)
Who said anything about Darkfall? Player made content wasn't the problem LOL, player made content isn't a bad thing, it's the only thing to do when you finish all the dev created content, that's why almost every themepark released in the last 8 years ended up F2P or dead with 1-5 servers after selling millions of boxes.
Darkfall tanked because it was a low budget indie gankfest with a horrible net code.
Mortal Online has ~2000 players messing around with the game.
So? It's another low budget gankfest.
SWG was tanking even before they made the terrible changes to it, and it' completely dead now.
So? it was doing fine before the CU and the NGE, not wow numbers but with a solid 300-400k playerbase.
EvE is the ONLY success sandbox as of yet. And for good reason.
UO was succesful, the rest where all low budget indie gankfests.
GW is about 7 years old and has more active players than every sandbox MMORPG that's currently running put together by about 20 fold. (Excluding EvE)
Excluding WOW, EvE is the MMO with most subs on the west (and if SWTOR still has more than 400k subs, give it 1 or 2 months) so?
Having more players than a bunch of... again... low budget indie gankfests isn't something surprising.
Not saying Sandbox is bad, far from it. I've played them all because I want them to be great and I enjoy the play style. But obviously what some of you people think a "sandbox" is supposed to be is not the right way to go about doing it.
Indeed, you played them ALL, im not sure what are you trying to say, first GW2 was a sandbox, then it was a hybrid, now sandboxes are all crap and nobody likes to play them.
Im not sure if you really played them all, i mean you don't even know what a sandbox or open world PVP is, seems fishy.
Yeah im not buying it, you use the same old cliches that every sandbox hater uses, profits over gameplay, if it's not mainstream it sucks, and a new one "there isn't a single good sandbox MMO, all of them failed, but i played them all and i love them!!!!!!!!"
Archeage has the graphics. It has the weeaboo appeal with the art and animation style. It has "sandbox" elements that are fun. But the rest of the game is hollow and that's why it will tank like the rest.
The animations are normal, they aren't over the top.
The art style isn't "weaaboo" at all, there is an eastern faction with eastern themed art style (but not over the top), and a western faction with western themed art style.
AA is on closed beta and it also has dynamic events, they are also adding mob invasions and tsunamis on the next closed beta ( You wouldn't know since you never played the game )
So is GW2 a sandbox or not? OP was looking for a sandbox MMO, why are you giving me this long speech about how sandbox MMOs are shit? It's clear that you like casual themeparks.
Why should i even care about how much SWG sold or if Mortal Online has 2000 players?
What has any of all that stuff got to do with GW2 being a sandbox or not?
But yes, in my opinion, GW2 is clearly over hyped and it's going to lose a lot of players over the next months, and by the time ArcheAge releases, GW2 will be just another themepark that was fun for a couple of months, The only competition AA will have in the west in 2014 will be TESO, Firefly and maybe WoD if it ever gets released.
I was never arguing about Sandbox or themeparks and which one is superior.... i was only saying that GW2 is... just another themepark in a genre filled with themeparks, and for people like the OP who are bored of themeparks and want a sandbox, GW2 isn't a good option.
For people who are bored to death of themeparks, GW2 isn't different enough, looking at the big picture, it's still the same old, kill things to lvl up, no meaningful way to interact with other players, no content besided combat, no politics, shallow crafting, no way to interact and affect the world, GW2 looks like a good MMO to play every couple of months for some mindless fun, but it's not meant to be played as a main MMO for years if one likes more sandboxy games with Depth on the level of UO or EvE.
That's why i don't believe you actually played all those games that you say you played, or if you actually like sandboxes.
You see AA and the only thing you see is a mob grinder, when the reality is that AA is an MMO with more options, freedom, depth, playstyles and things to do than GW2, which is all about combat, killing mobs and PVP in a couple of zones agains't people you don't know of other server.
There isn't even a reason to PVP with them... they are just from a different server, that's it.
Sandboxes aren't better than themeparks, they are 2 different genres suited for 2 different kind of players, i never implyed anything like that, you seem to be stuck on a weird themepark vs sandbox mentality.
Comments
As already stated, the OP is looking for more sandbox, less themepark. GW 2 is a themepark MMO. I didn't think this was actually up for debate? I have stated my opinions on the game in the appropriate section of the forums. If you didn't care to read it, I can't help you.
As someone else stated I have to agree with Vanguard. it's a throwback to older MMOs. May want to wait for the F2P switch for the boom (hopefully) in population. That's what I am currently waiting for at the moment. Vanguard gives me that old feeling, it just really needs more people playing it.
Cant believe people still go on around SWG
Dude , wake up- it was not that great. You only remember it as such because they took it from you.
If they had let you keep playing it such as it was originally released, youd have probably left the game ages ago.
I've played CBT 2 3 and 4. As I said, I lived in Korea for a long time and when make Korean gaming friends, it's easy to get keys for Asian games. Also, any games that require local IP can be tricked with a proxy server. (You know all this I'm sure).
I played the closed and Open korean betas for many MMORPGs, to include Aion, Tera, Continent of the 9th, Blade N Soul and Archeage.
And your opinion of what makes Sandbox is just that, your opinion. Especially since the you say "Player driven content" yet the best examples you can come up with is a plethora of CRAFTING features. Seems like you don't care about Roleplaying, or Lore, or epic events, dungeons, large worlds, freedom of exploration, character creation/customization or siege warfare. All you want is some Crafter Wet Dream Game of building boats and housing and filling up your in-game bank with coin pixels.
And your opinion that EQ, L2 and DAOC had "More freedom" than GW2 only further proves you have never even entered the game once. Another no name who talks out his rear, go figure...
Also, taken straight from the GW2 wiki (and from personal experience I agree)
In my experience, I ran from a lvl 1 to 15 area, to a 16 to 25 area, and then to a 26 to 35 area without seeing a single loading screen. And each of those areas in themselves are massive, non-linear, and reward exploration. If that's not seemless enough for you, get a SSD.
It's largely seamless, but there will be interruptions at times to allow your computer to load large environments and enable smoother transitions the majority of the time. You will see a loading screen when you transfer between two major zones (e.g. leaving a city) and a brief delay when transfering between waypoints within a zone. There are very few portals between explorable zones, which means that you are less likely to notice them compared to those in Guild Wars
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Ok, it was fun while it lasted, now it's getting sad.
GW2 a hybrid, a sandbox, wow, that's a new one.
Plus no new arguments, just baiitng.
Yeah...
I guess if all you care about is sitting around a woodworking table and making planks all day to craft a house... it's not "sandbox".
Care to give me any examples of "Player driven content" that would equate to sandboxing besides Crafting? Hmmm maybe cruising around on a boat acting like a pirate in archeage and ganking other boat using players and stealing from them?
If in that case, All you need to sandbox a game is to throw a buncha low life gankers and crafting addicts into a world, give them nothing to do but make shirts and kill each other all day.
People who think that's what makes a "sandbox" is the reason why the genre is near-dead.
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Very good points! Do you think the current mmorpg community would put up with spell fizzling?
As to being memorable, for me, the last game was City of Heroes travel powers. It's not much, but it was certainly fun and brings back fond memories.
Over the past coupule of years I went back and played Wizardy 1 and SSI gold box pool of radiance. It was a fun time despite the clunky gameplay. DOOM and EQ1 both left me feeling kind of meh. As bad as the graphics were, I think having bad 3D graphics was harder on me than horrible 2D and isomorphic graphics.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
WOW has several areas to choose where to lvl up in different level ranges.
Suddenly, WOW is a hybrid.
Low life gankers, crafting addicts, "uber gear", korean grindfest, "big boss"
Do you have any other cheap cliches?
I mean it's funny because you say all those things while being a fan of a game that only has combat as content... and it's a sandbox... right?
That quote was meaningless, it's not seamless, it's instanced, it has loading screens, the pvp is zoned, how is that "open world"?
ArcheAge is non instanced, there isn't a single instance, only one battleground for siege practice, now thats an open world MMO.
But i guess you knew that... since you played it, lol.
It's not just crafting, crafting leads to other things, like caravans, player made factions, player made cities, naval warfare, sieges, politics, guild wars, real exploriation, territorial control, everything is connected.
That's how sandboxes are, different playstyle options.
GW2 lacks all those things, you either kill mobs in dynamic events... pick apples in dynamic events.... or...
Kill mobs in heart quests.
Oh... you can also kill players in PVP
...
You can't even pick apples without having a dynamic event asking you to pick those apples.
In a sandbox... or a hybrid... or whatever, i should be able to pick those apples and make an apple pie whenever i want.
But i guess im a crafting addict.... or maybe you don't know what are you talking about since you never actually played a sandbox MMO.
Archeage
I will not pretend to say it will be perfect,heck it's main selling point seems to be a pvp structure that offers way more than simple instanced battle grounds.I am not even into pvp,but having it open world and with added features like ships and water fighting intrigues me a bit.Hang gliding,definitely a different twist we are not used to seeing.
Best thing to do is look for the many you tube videos and you will see lots of new ideas.
You will not find videos of devs bragging about their art team or anything,that alone is a breathe of fresh air as i tire of marketing hype,i prefer product over talk.
I will mention what scares me,as i might not like it because i am a traditionalist when comes to class design.Their design will be imo severely restricted.It might all change by time th egame goes live but the idea is to have 10 skills within each class to choose from but you can only learn 3.This aspect right there is going to be a hot topic in the future,i know it.
Myself i will be looking at the depth of these skills.I mention this becuase the lead guy says they do not plan on making any skill to overpowering to stay clear of arguments over classes.Does this mean some pretty ho hum boring skills?I can't answer that just yet,we will have to wait and see i guess.They mention versatilty and lots of variation,but if one skill is "healing" i guarantee 90% of the players will all have the same builds.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Neverwinter looked very promising to me, but I am starting to have my doubts now.
It promises user created dungeons, which sounds REALLY awesome, yet it is completely and utterly free...so...that leads me to believe that they will just charge the crap out of items for making anything that resembles an actual dungeon...
Want a spike trap? 5$
Want two flesh golems? Another 5$
And so on, and so on...
Of course, hope that I am wrong.
That is what really gives me confidence about AA, it's on closed beta yet there is no NDA, players are free to upload whatever they want.
Im not sure if i understanded your point about the 10 skills, from what i've seen in this video, there are 144 different class combinations, since you have to pick 3 out of 10 different combat schools.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo05ANVoGvg
Seems like good customization, but of course it can end up with 2 OP builds and everyone using them.
What i don't like about AA is the boring old combat... but it's not so bad considering AA is probably the most feature rich MMO since EvE.
Only two mmos interest me at this point, GW2 and Planetside 2
The only AAA games that really look promising are ArcheAge and World of Darkness. Unfortunately, both appear to be pretty far away (at least for NA/EU for ArcheAge). WoD is probably several years away.
Most major game companies appear intent on cranking out more-of-the-same, casual themepark-style games. Indies are the only other respite from that trend.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Personally I dominated in UO-pre trammell and Shadowbane, and I played both Darkfall and Mortal Online.
Shadowbane had no PVE content and the siege system was a joke compared to GW2 (but it's a much older game so not even fair to compare)
The problem is that all sandbox games all lack content and their Gameplay mechanics are ALL terrible (Shadowbane click to move, Darkfall and mortal online's combat is terrible and bland to say the least, etc)
PVE content in all 3 games was near non-existant.
The only sandbox aspects of those games when it comes right down to it were the fact that you could build stuff in the world and kill anyone you wanted (So all player run content envolved killing each other).
- GW2 offers the best Siege warfare (READ OWPVP, just because they seperate it from the PVE content does not take away from it's purpose, or it's legitimacy)
The world has "level ranges", sure, but the areas themself are not linear, and there are many ways to progress and exploration is the key to the game. Further more, once you've capped your character *lvl 80*. Their system allows you to do ANY content in the game, regardless of what level it is. It scales your character to the right level for the area seemlessly and you do it (rewards are also scalled UP to your real level, so any content you do decide to do is viable). This is Sandbox in nature (The off the rails do what you want aspect) and freedom many themepark games lack.
Skyrim, Marrowind, Oblivion have similar systems. Monsters scale to the right level, you are free to play how you want, but some stuff in the game is set at certain difficulty levels.
The big unique and huge selling point of GW2 is the fact that the PVE content, the DE's, actually change the world. Especially the later level content. Save a town from orcs, the town thrives. Lose the fight or ignore their plight and it's taken over by the monsters. This is the kind of PVE content people are looking for. PVE that matters, makes a difference, has consequence and real rewards outside exp/loot.
Yet you're more worried about 2 or 3 second loading screens once every 4 miles of gameplay instead of what really matters.
I don't know why I'm bothering explaining anything to you...
It's obvious all you're looking for is EverCraft: Journey to the Bank! Where you sit around and build houses and boats, and the most "content" you get are zerg / gank pvp fests.
Archeage suits you well. Have fun killing those 1000 orcs sitting in a field, lifeless, doing nothing, so that you can take their hides and craft curtains for your Barbie Dream House.
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Must be fun not having any games to look forward too.
Me though, I got my eye on 2 games, both with the number 2 in it, GW2/PS2. GW2 for my MMO fix, that progression feeling, a virtual world blah blah blah... PS2 for that intense FPS feeling. I just got back into GRFS to pass time before GW2, and strangely, i'm following PS2 now more than GW2... Can you say Galaxy Pilot reporting for duty!
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
It's always going to seem like ‘more of the same’ if you compare to immediate predecessors. That's evolution for you.
Remember when everything was just like EverQuest? There was no line we crossed at which that stopped—it faded away imperceptibly, and now EverQuest is often regarded as a relic of ‘the good old days’ while World of WarCraft is the touchstone, even though it, too, was once regarded as an EQ clone.
I think some of us just need to stop watching the kettle for a while.
GW2 doesn't have open world PVP and it's not a sandbox or a hybrid.
It's a themepark.
OP is looking for a sandbox game.
That's about it....
Oh and i will have fun with ArcheAge, unlike GW2, it will hold my attention for more than 2-3 months like every other shallow themepark MMO with no player created content and kill 10 quests... i mean Dynamic Events.
[mod edit]
Imo, GW2 does have OWPVP. The landmass where the Siege warfare takes place is 10 square miles large, with hundreds of forts and objectives to attack and defend.
You seem to think OWPVP has to constitute some sort of FFA PVE world where people are allowed to kill and steal from each other at any time. That may be your opinion (that you want a mixed PVE + PVP world), but that's not what "makes a sandbox" and everyone has their own definition of what one is.
PVE + PVP FFA didn't work in Shadowbane, it didn't work in DF, it didn't work in SWG, it didn't work in MO. What makes you think Archeage is going to be some bastion of amazing PVP? Aside from the combat system being about as boring as WoW's? We already know the PVE in Archeage is extremely bland and average (Works exactly like standard themepark quests), so you think the ability to build houses and gank people is going to be some sort of amazing experience?
[mod edit]
GW2 is estimated to sell 3 million copies by the end of 2012. We're not hurting for players.
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Immersion makes good pvp.
PVP has been put in a tiny little box, and still it's one group steamrolling the other. Only now the loser gets a reward and xp and whatever else they can hand out to the lambs to lead them to the wolves. It's the same as always.
I know you said you think GW2 sucks, but it doesnt.
That being said I am very much looking forward to the following games:
GW2
Neverwinter
TESO
The War Z
possibly Blizzard's Titan Project. Holding out hope it does for PvE Sandbox games what WoW did for PvE Themepark games.
Other games I know alot of people are hyped about that I am not are: Archeage, Repopulation, Planetside 2 or any of the myriad of indie games that have grown a cult like following here on mmorpg.com jsut because it has the word sandbox in its description bio. You would think with the failure of MO and DF people would realize that games like Salem, Embers of Caerus, and Repopulation have little chance in becoming mainsteam or for that fact any good.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I registered to reply to this thread...
Anyways @ OP and maybe others. There will never be a MMORPG like the originals. UO - EQ1 - DAOC - SWG
There isn't any money to be made because of how MMORPG has evolved. (yeah its blizzards fault with WoW but hey, they rich now which is the point of developing software for profit)
What I do is play those old games on free shards. Emulation servers set to act like the originals.
Eq 1- Project 1999 - If you like a huge world, tons of content, grouping and unforgiving death penalties, its great. I got a 57 warrior there. Pretty active server, around 500-700 at peaks.
DAOC - Uthgard free shard - Grouping - RVR PVP - still lots of fun, got a troll zerker, rr6 or so.
UO and SWG - haven't researched any emulation servers yet...I'm sure they exist though.
So to OP if you want that old school gaming experience, with a bunch of like minded people, that is your best bet.
Another cliche, WOW has open world PVP and it's not a FFA gankfest.
GW2 has 3 or 4 zones where people go to PVP, that's the exact opposite of open world PVP.
So you dominated in UO-Pre trammel??
Feel sorry for me? kid? why are you so angry? We are talking about games here.... lol
3 Million sales... woot!, and then in 1 year it will have 300k players, just like every other over hyped mainstream casual themepark.
You talk like if ArcheAge was a themepark and GW2 a sandbox.
In one you either kill mobs... or kill players in PVP, there is nothing else to do.
In the other one, you can do whatever you want, from crafting a town with your guild, crafting your own ship, your own glider, having your own farm, cutting down trees, underwater treasure hunting, having mounts, a skillbar with more than 5 buttons, massive non-instanced world with player crated factions, politics, open world dungeons, a real economy, no instant teleport, no soft grouping, etc etc etc
Which one is a sandbox/hybrid and which one is a themepark?
"The big unique and huge selling point of GW2 is the fact that the PVE content, the DE's, actually change the world. Especially the later level content. Save a town from orcs, the town thrives. Lose the fight or ignore their plight and it's taken over by the monsters. This is the kind of PVE content people are looking for. PVE that matters, makes a difference, has consequence and real rewards outside exp/loot."
Seriously? nothing changes, 10 minutes later it's the same scripted event again. How is that PVE with consequences and "real rewards"? lol
Man, if they'd just make EQ1 with updated graphics and engine, oh and 3rd person, the 1st person view was the only thing i didn't like about eq1. (they had a 3rd person option but it wasn't very good, not natural)
Oh, and tweak the classes some, but nothing huge.
I'd be such a huge fan. I'd heard that's what they're doing with eq next, but pay 2 win is going to be there payment method and that can only end badly.
I used to think i wanted a sandbox, I don't. Crafting bores me, owning a house is a hassle not something to be excited about, I don't want to own a plot of land. I don't like to quest either though. I want to kill things, explore and have the lore revealed to me that way. I guess I want what's being refered to as an open theme park.
GW2 seems to have promise, at least short term, for my personal taste there is too much pew pew pew pew going on in that game.
GW2 has ~15 button skill bar (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
GW2 you can cut down trees (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
GW2 the DE events don't work anything like you described, outside a handful of nooby zone starter DE's. Most of the mid to end game DE's are chaining events, that cycle over a long period of time and have multiple possible outcomes depending on the success and failures throughout the chain. (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
GW2 has Hard Grouping and soft grouping (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
GW2 has underwater exploration (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
Darkfall is a sandbox and has instant teleporting (You wouldn't know since you never played the game)
GW2 doesn't have mounts. Good job.
GW sold over 6 and a half million copies over the course of 6 years (So a lot more than 300k people kept interest for more than 3 months apparently)
Darkfall had 300k people (maybe 200k) try the beta. The game currently has 4 servers with ~1000 active players each. So I guess about 192k, about 92% of the people who played the game couldn't be bothered to stick around (Guess it had too much playe made-content eh?)
Mortal Online has ~2000 players messing around with the game.
SWG was tanking even before they made the terrible changes to it, and it' completely dead now.
EvE is the ONLY success sandbox as of yet. And for good reason.
GW is about 7 years old and has more active players than every sandbox MMORPG that's currently running put together by about 20 fold. (Excluding EvE)
Not saying Sandbox is bad, far from it. I've played them all because I want them to be great and I enjoy the play style. But obviously what some of you people think a "sandbox" is supposed to be is not the right way to go about doing it.
Archeage has the graphics. It has the weeaboo appeal with the art and animation style. It has "sandbox" elements that are fun. But the rest of the game is hollow and that's why it will tank like the rest.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
I can't remember how much I paid for GW1, not sure if it's 10$ or 5$. Everything is cheaper in asia(Taiwan). I don't think we even need to pay for the mist of panda expansion. We just get it.
I think GW2 have potential. Hopefully they'll keep releasing new expansion etc every year or two.
I dont' think it's fair to say GW1 have more current subscriber compare to other games, since it's virtually free after the initial payment. Besides no one really know how many people actually is playing GW1 monthly. Besides from xfire.