Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

This genre is dead

1568101134

Comments

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Tarka

    Originally posted by Foomerang  

    Originally posted by Tarka I understand what you're saying but, what would YOU like to see in these games besides combat upgrades?  Are you talking about being able to get cosmetic non-combat upgrades too?   If so, certain MMO's do have those (I won't name names).   Also, what non-combat activities do you think are missing?   Fishing?  I agree.  What else?  RP events?  I agree too.   Any other suggestions? Incidentally, I'm asking simply because I'm curious as to what you have in mind, I'm not meaning to attack your opinion :)
      I think about what we as human beings enjoy in real life that takes us out of our normal day to day. The things that we like to watch on tv or listen to or attend in person. Then I would have those translated into games in a virtual world. Games that include competition, cooperation, and individual expression. Team sports, concerts, plays, races, individual sports, extreme sports, hobby culture like models, horticulture, terrariums, aquariums. Things that allow us to interact with the world around us. Change its initial intent. Urban art, street skating, parkour. Friendly competitions like expos dedicated to home furnishings both indoor and outdoor, fashion shows, laptop battles in a club, dj battles, dance crews. All of this allows for collaboration, competition, and individual expression. The list is practically endless when you stop thinking of mmorpgs as combat and start thinking of a virtual world.
    I understand, what do you have in mind?  Bearing in mind the context of the virtual world in question (e.g. take a fantasy world like GW2 or WoW), what forms would this virtual world content take?

     

    For instance, when you talk about aquariums, I would think that you are referring to areas of beauty in a virtual world that really have no direct connection to a "Story" but nevertheless have been designed and exist in the virtual world to simply "be there and appreciated".   A sort of "Easter Egg" for players to find and enjoy.

     


     

    If I were dealing with GW2. First, Id get rid of cash shop items that supplemented crafting (the ones that change appearance, color, stats) and implement it into the actual crafting system.

    Then I would decide on the amount of players I could hold per server and make permanent, not instanced housing in each major city. For example, if there are 4 major cities and 6000 players capped per server, I would construct a non instanced district in each city that had four to five large buildings which would total 1500 units for rent. Players could trade room and location and grab vacancies based on a recurring rental fee.

    With housing comes furniture, art, music libraries, pets, cooking and plants. I would have crafting classes that accomidate all of those. From running a nursery to a pet breeder and all the stuff in between. Clothing would also be in that category and I would have a crafting class that specializes in creating aesthetic attire.

    After that, I would tackle social spaces. All chairs can be sat in, all walls leaned up against. I would have a separate UI when im not in combat that has hotkeys for various moods, emotes, and customized chat scripts.

    Then I would get rid of node farming and incorporate crafting and gathering into the dynamic event system. Maybe a mining town is under attack. If it is saved, you have access to metals for a period of time. Or perhaps a farm is ransacked and you help the people till their land in return you are rewarded with fresh fruits and vegetables to cook with. Sheep farms for tailors or exotic wares from random merchants. A special loom or forge owned by a specific local of an obscure village. Only available when certain criteria are met and scattered across the world.

    Then I would put in a race of some sort. Each city has a track that snakes through its streets and once a day or week, players can purchase either a mount or vehicle made by a crafter or breeder and enter the race. Leaderboards for each city are regularly updated and better crafted or bred mounts contribute to your performance ie top speeds, handling, etc.

    I would allow pubs to have music and dance customized by the players. Being able to grab a partner and swing them around, or get up on stage and change the tune. Have the ability to control lighting and various effects as well. Create moods in a social space.

    Id also have a team sport of some kind. Think Huttball. Butinstead of having all of your combat moves and killing the other players, you have a set of physical abilities like duck, speed bost, tackle, shoot, pass, formations, audibles, etc. Have arenas in each major city and tournaments spread out over several circuits.

    Theres more, but this is all going to get shot down anyway heh.

    Im not gona shot down your idea, like everything on paper it sounds great.

    But i really gota ask you, and im sorry that this may sound rude but do you go out a lot?

    All the things you are mentioning happen in real life and there are people doing it everyday. And you know what? it takes A LOT OF TIME.

    The reality is people no longer want to invest all their time or even a substantial ammount of it on games.

    People have jobs, families, college, etc. The community that once played MMOs in the beggining nowdays is too busy in real life to be part of a virtual world.

    The features you mention all sound great but who is gona have the time to do them?

    Im not saying people wouldnt want a virtual world, its just people are too busy to take care of it.

  • IsaneIsane EnglandPosts: 2,629Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Dead?

    The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead.

    In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE.

    It is getting BETTER.

    As the OP said the genre is dead , well nearly.......

    All the old problems are gameplay elements that do not require content creation , sanitiesd dumbed down insta everything yes the genre is dead except for maybe one .....

    But games do exist that provide something of what we used to get sadly they are text based and have tight communities and require patience , effort and an ability to think. Sadly 99.99% of gameplayers to day are not capable of this and it was a pre-requisite of the genre as was...

    ________________________________________________________
    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

  • IsaneIsane EnglandPosts: 2,629Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hrimnir

    Ok, EQ peaked at around 650k, UO was in the low 400's, same with AC.  Just for the sake of numbers.

    Where i take beef with this post is you're making a HUGE mistake.  The mistake you're making is assuming that MMO genre today is the same as it was in the beginning.  What i mean by that is the MMO genre existed for about 4 years as a genre that catered to a specific niche type of gaming.  WOW came along and broadened the genre.  Let me use racing as an example:

    When MMO's came out, it was for people who were really into "racing", these people had cars suited specifically for the task.  But because of that, these cars were loud, uncomfortable, hot, expensive, etc.  Now, imagine someone came along, saw this racing community and went, "hmm, i can really monetize that!".  So they come in, buy out the race tracks, release their own racing series, but they let everyone in.  You've got a 1987 Ford Fiesta?  Sure, why not.  A minivan?  sure ok, who cares. 

    Well now, all those people in the racing specific cars are forced to try to race on a track with bunch of POS minivans and ford fiestas.

    My point is that blizzard changed the genre and caused a snowball effect.   What was once something pure is now a big hodge podge of shit.

    So, to answer your question, yes, the people who play "MMOs" now ARE wrong.  Because they aren't playing MMO's, what is out now is not an MMO, it bears little resemblance to what real MMO's were designed for. 

    So from a business standpoint, i totally agree and understand what you're saying.  The problem is that gaming/games is a form of entertainment which is a form of art.  At some point you have to draw a line between what you're willing to do as a producer of art/entertainment to increase sales vs maintain your ethical integrity.

    Our concern as "jaded/embittered" gamers is that something which we loved has been twisted and pissed on and turned into something it never was.  Calling today's MMORPG's "MMORPG's" is literally a joke.  They bear little resemblance to what an MMO was.

    Its kind of like saying that a minivan is like a ferrari because they're both cars.

    So well put I just want to cry .....

    Back to Pen Paper and MUDs , no need to flog a dead horse ; I think someone will deliver a blast from the past lets just hope....

    I know one game in development which will buck the trend and deliver something incredible...... but not something i'd discuss any further on this site

    ________________________________________________________
    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by austriacus
    Im not gona shot down your idea, like everything on paper it sounds great.But i really gota ask you, and im sorry that this may sound rude but do you go out a lot?All the things you are mentioning happen in real life and there are people doing it everyday. And you know what? it takes A LOT OF TIME.The reality is people no longer want to invest all their time or even a substantial ammount of it on games.People have jobs, families, college, etc. The community that once played MMOs in the beggining nowdays is too busy in real life to be part of a virtual world.The features you mention all sound great but who is gona have the time to do them?Im not saying people wouldnt want a virtual world, its just people are too busy to take care of it.
    Yes I go out a lot lol.
    People play guitar hero, Tony Hawk Pro Skater, Gran Tourismo, The Sims, Dance Dance Revolution, Farmville, tons of non player killing/player combat games. A video game is a device that challenges a person's cognitive skills, hand eye coordination, reflexes, pattern recognition and memorization. These mechanics can be expressed in a multitude of ways. MMORPGS used to do that, or at least they were trying. That is all Im getting at here. And as far as who is gonna have the time? Its a game. Its done at your leisure. If you dont have the time, its ok. Also, in a virtual world with a ton of different things to do and ways to play, the point doesnt become "how am I gonna do all of this" but more of, "i'm going to find a handful of things that I really enjoy and become a part of the whole thing".

    I remember playing SWG for about 6 months and was talking to this guy one night in a cantina. He had been places and done things that I didnt know existed yet and vice versa. It was an eye opening experience that two people could cross paths in the same game and have completely different experiences. And I'm not talking about "oh you killed that boar with a fireball? I used a sword." or "you killed centaurs at the farm? I helped put out fires when I was there." Im talking about "I spend my time mixing songs for stage performances, he owns a restaurant on the other side of the world, she owns a mining operation, and yes, he goes out and kills centuars"

  • spirus7spirus7 athensPosts: 142Member

    Op is 100% right! 

    Ultima , Daoc , Anarchy Online , Everquest blah blah .. none of today games can beat those old bastards =D

  • mrguderianmrguderian seattle, WAPosts: 7Member

    Hoping Planetside 2 invigorates the genre in general, I would love to see a true Borderlands MMO or anyone trying anything that isn't the same old thing and claiming that it is something new and revolutionary.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,708Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mrguderian

    Hoping Planetside 2 invigorates the genre in general, I would love to see a true Borderlands MMO or anyone trying anything that isn't the same old thing and claiming that it is something new and revolutionary.

    That's like saying LoL would invigorate the genre.  Neither LoL nor Planetside 2 are MMORPGs, so expecting them to invigorate a genre they're not a part of is odd.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by austriacus
    Im not gona shot down your idea, like everything on paper it sounds great.

     

    But i really gota ask you, and im sorry that this may sound rude but do you go out a lot?

    All the things you are mentioning happen in real life and there are people doing it everyday. And you know what? it takes A LOT OF TIME.

    The reality is people no longer want to invest all their time or even a substantial ammount of it on games.

    People have jobs, families, college, etc. The community that once played MMOs in the beggining nowdays is too busy in real life to be part of a virtual world.

    The features you mention all sound great but who is gona have the time to do them?

    Im not saying people wouldnt want a virtual world, its just people are too busy to take care of it.

     


    Yes I go out a lot lol.
    People play guitar hero, Tony Hawk Pro Skater, Gran Tourismo, The Sims, Dance Dance Revolution, Farmville, tons of non player killing/player combat games. A video game is a device that challenges a person's cognitive skills, hand eye coordination, reflexes, pattern recognition and memorization. These mechanics can be expressed in a multitude of ways. MMORPGS used to do that, or at least they were trying. That is all Im getting at here. And as far as who is gonna have the time? Its a game. Its done at your leisure. If you dont have the time, its ok. Also, in a virtual world with a ton of different things to do and ways to play, the point doesnt become "how am I gonna do all of this" but more of, "i'm going to find a handful of things that I really enjoy and become a part of the whole thing".

     

    I remember playing SWG for about 6 months and was talking to this guy one night in a cantina. He had been places and done things that I didnt know existed yet and vice versa. It was an eye opening experience that two people could cross paths in the same game and have completely different experiences. And I'm not talking about "oh you killed that boar with a fireball? I used a sword." or "you killed centaurs at the farm? I helped put out fires when I was there." Im talking about "I spend my time mixing songs for stage performances, he owns a restaurant on the other side of the world, she owns a mining operation, and yes, he goes out and kills centuars"

    Yes im aware of all of those and i play most of them.

    But you seem to be asking for activities that gota be learned and mastered through time and the games you mention are if implemented to mmorpgs just minigames.

    And i know you feel that people should concentrate in virtual worlds on some parts of the game and not all of them but in general people wana do everything and when they feel they arent performing as well as others they feel that the game is screwing with them.

    And im sorry but in a game of opportunities where mines are atacked sometimes and only for that period of time theres the material that mine produces, then people need to pay attention all the time to the game otherwise you lose oportunities.

  • bhugbhug earth, FLPosts: 1,033Member

    12.7.26
    subscriptions
    image

    genre
    image

    clarify what you mean by "this genre is dead" because the #s (as of March 2012) show that OPINION is nonsense ref

    image

  • raistlinmraistlinm new orleans, LAPosts: 673Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    100% combat oriented online games. Cash shops come standard. Purely developer driven content. Esport is the name of the game for pvp. Socialization has become automatized.

    If you were to tell me ten years ago that this is what MMORPGS would be like, I would have never even bothered to get involved.

    MMO versions of old console games from a decade ago. Thats what we have right now. The irony is that console games today are actually more open and diverse than these so called mmorpgs.

    Its a shame. I have faith in indie devs, as always. But the AAA mmo devs have really led the genre astray as of late. I wonder if it will ever get back on track.

    Please don't tell me you are one of those people who thought of the original SWG as having "player driven content".....

    I've played a few of the games with player driven content like COH and STO and neither really impressed me though neither does the notion that having an empty game world somehow equates to player driven content especially when there is no reason why people can't get a group together and decide to go farm whatever they want in any game the only difference is you dont have the entire rest of the playerbase at your beck and call simply because the game is so boring and lacking in developer created content.

    Your assertion that if you knew mmorpg's would be what they are now you would have not even gotten into it is also a strange one maybe mmorpgs aren't and never were for you I hate SquareEnix games have since the merger but no way would I forgoe the awesome games I played before that merger which grounds me in the fact that I am in fact a true rpg fan so I say again maybe MMORPGS just aren't your thing.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by austriacus
    Yes im aware of all of those and i play most of them.But you seem to be asking for activities that gota be learned and mastered through time and the games you mention are if implemented to mmorpgs just minigames.And i know you feel that people should concentrate in virtual worlds on some parts of the game and not all of them but in general people wana do everything and when they feel they arent performing as well as others they feel that the game is screwing with them.And im sorry but in a game of opportunities where mines are atacked sometimes and only for that period of time theres the material that mine produces, then people need to pay attention all the time to the game otherwise you lose oportunities.

    It can be done and has been done to some extents many years ago in various games. Console games are branching out more this way as well. I think we have a difference of opinion on mmorpg design philosophies and thats fine.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by raistlinm
    Please don't tell me you are one of those people who thought of the original SWg as having "player driven content".....

    Hmm. Well if players could make just about everything in the game and place those things just about anywhere in the world, do you think that opens the door for player made content? Or how about later when they implemented the storyteller mechanic where you could make scripted events with boss fights and customized loot drops placed anywhere in the world? I guess you and I have differing opinions on what player made content is.

  • raistlinmraistlinm new orleans, LAPosts: 673Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Gurpslord

    Originally posted by madazz

    Originally posted by nariusseldon Dead? The market is huge and may still be expanding. Going into a direction you do not like != dead. In fact, i think it is becoming MORE ALIVE, solving all the old problems (like camping & finding groups with instances & LFD/LFR), while giving a large part of the games to the players for FREE. It is getting BETTER.
    It is getting worse IMO. Instances (cutting the world into many little pieces), cash shops, getting a small portion of the game for FREE and then finding out you are crippled if you don't pay (not true in a few instances). How about everything being on rails? What happened to exploration? Why are people not as social now that we have all these things to assist us into grouping? Why is everything just handed to us now with a low difficulty rating? I understand the grind sucks, but difficulty and grinding don't have to mean the same thing.   Why is it normal to repeat the same damn thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to unlock stuff, and that is your "end game content". Then, when an update comes out, your new end game content is just doing the new thing that came out over and over and over and over and over again to unluck slightly more powerful stuff. Which then just leaves many new players left behind drastically as not as many people want to group up to unlock TIER 1 armour/weps, because all the other players are too busy doing TIER 3 over and over and over and over again.   Its no wonder most people are only in a game a few months at a time as opposed to years. Oh well. Things will turn around eventually.
    The problem is back in the days of people playing for years at a time in giant virtual worlds there were very few options.  People didn't really have a choice.  If you wanted to play a game online with friends it was take it or leave it.  Things evolved from meridian, to UO, to EQ etc etc etc.  The industry isn't dead, nor is the genre.  It simply changed to suit the people playing it.  Yes, that's right.  The old schoolers are now the minority, they ushered in the genre and made it mainstream, thus a lot more people began paying attention and getting involved and the needs and wants of those consumers eventually out weighed the needs and wants of the die hard originals.

     

    So, there it is.  Things won't turn around, they're ever getting more aggressively inclusive to fit more and more people, meaning that the good old days of sandboxy yore are not likely to rear up too often or even too successfully.

     


     

    What options are you talking about? The option to kill stuff 100 different ways in 1000 different games? I liked the older options better. Yeah there were less actual games to choose from, but at least each of those games had dozens of different ways to play. MMOs today have 2 maybe 3 ways to play, tops. And no, killing something with a fireball instead of a crossbow is not variety.

    I missed anything that came before SWG so could you enlighten the uninformed like myself as to some of the dozens of different ways you could play those early mmorpgs?

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by bhug
    giant graphs and pie charts showing massive profit

    Thanks for that. However, this is about the genre in regards to the games themselves, not the money they generate. There is a difference. There are countless examples of things that have lost their soul and make crap tons of money.

  • MastermartzMastermartz Guelph, ONPosts: 255Member

    Flame on bro. This is one of the fastest growing genres out there.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by raistlinm
    I missed anything that came before SWG so could you enlighten the uninformed like myself as to some of the dozens of different ways you could play those early mmorpgs?


    This thread talks about all the stuff you could do in UO.

  • raistlinmraistlinm new orleans, LAPosts: 673Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by raistlinm
    Please don't tell me you are one of those people who thought of the original SWg as having "player driven content".....

     

    Hmm. Well if players could make just about everything in the game and place those things just about anywhere in the world, do you think that opens the door for player made content? Or how about later when they implemented the storyteller mechanic where you could make scripted events with boss fights and customized loot drops placed anywhere in the world? I guess you and I have differing opinions on what player made content is.

    The funny thing is everything you mentioned encompanses one form of play and that would be combat, you know the aspect of gaming you are trashing this generation of games for relying to heavily on.

    Look I have nothing against players who want to spend months on end gathering mats,even if those mats are gathered without having to fight for them as many could do in SWG but the bottom line is they still boil down to combat unless of course as asked in a later post you can give some examples of these dozens of playstyles that involve no combat.

  • raistlinmraistlinm new orleans, LAPosts: 673Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by raistlinm
    I missed anything that came before SWG so could you enlighten the uninformed like myself as to some of the dozens of different ways you could play those early mmorpgs?

     


    This thread talks about all the stuff you could do in UO.

    And I should have to read through seven pages of posts just to pick out what you are talking about?!?!?

    So far people mentioned SWG and EVE as coming close and I hate to say it but those two games rely heavily on combat regardless of what a player imagines is the reason they are fighting.

    If you played them I would think it would be easy to list even three things that you could do in those games advance inthe game and never have to fight which is what your original post seems to imply if not going off the fact that you outright said so in a later post.

    Ok finally three pages in someone took the liberty to list some of the features and out of the list I've seen so far only three of the things listed have I not seen anywhere else and honestly many of the features are offered by just about every game on the market just because people don't engross themselves inthe crafting of newer games doesn't mean it isn't there irnoically I hated crafting in SWG but since then I have been an avid crafter in every single mmorpg I have played and whle I can say that most games crafting pales in comparison to that one it doesn't take away from the fact that it's there.

    Not to be a party pooper but this entire post is no different than when your parents told you the music you listen to is crap and pales in comparison to the music they listened to just like their parents told them, just like I spend most of my time telling my daughter.

    The genre is neither dead nor dying you just don't like where it is going.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,708Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mastermartz

    Flame on bro. This is one of the fastest growing genres out there.

    Bad timing to post that right after the graph showing the genre's growth slowing.

    No clue of the validity of said graph, but still...it basically fits my mental model of how the genre is going.  But I feel the downward trend could be reversed if new game design was applied to the genre (like GW2 is kinda doing, although they didn't quite do it as much as WOW did back in the day; probably because there were so many more dead branches to prune back then.)

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by raistlinm
    Originally posted by Foomerang   Originally posted by raistlinm Please don't tell me you are one of those people who thought of the original SWg as having "player driven content".....
      Hmm. Well if players could make just about everything in the game and place those things just about anywhere in the world, do you think that opens the door for player made content? Or how about later when they implemented the storyteller mechanic where you could make scripted events with boss fights and customized loot drops placed anywhere in the world? I guess you and I have differing opinions on what player made content is.
    The funny thing is everything you mentioned encompanses one form of play and that would be combat, you know the aspect of gaming you are trashing this generation of games for relying to heavily on.

    Look I have nothing against players who want to spend months on end gathering mats,even if those mats are gathered without having to fight for them as many could do in SWG but the bottom line is they still boil down to combat unless of course as asked in a later post you can give some examples of these dozens of playstyles that involve no combat.


    It was working its way towards that. When you had classes dedicated to home furnishings, or buffing other crafting classes. Professions whos sole purpose was to change the looks of other characters and offer visual emotes. Classes that could train wild animals to become mounts or classes that could craft vehicles. Classes that made houses, or food that helped people make better clothing. A lot of SWG was fueled by the end goal of better performance in combat. I wont deny that. SWG was far from perfect. But it had the ideas that made mmorpgs its own genre.
    I'm saying if you take games like tony hawk, or sega gt, or any of the plethora of styles of gameplay that do not involve combat, you can see the potential that was there for making this type of virtual world. Especially with the potential an mmo has where you can have a community of people coming together for various goals. You can see that combat is one part of the big picture. And it is hard as hell to move away from such a strong concept.

    We, as a society do not accept death. We fear it, want to avoid it at all costs. So it comes out in our culture. We are death obsessed. We want to conquer it, control and manipulate it. Be the master of it. It gets translated into the concept of a video game. When a video game can be so much more. Especially in a massive community setting.

  • raistlinmraistlinm new orleans, LAPosts: 673Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Mastermartz

    Flame on bro. This is one of the fastest growing genres out there.

    Bad timing to post that right after the graph showing the genre's growth slowing.

    No clue of the validity of said graph, but still...it basically fits my mental model of how the genre is going.  But I feel the downward trend could be reversed if new game design was applied to the genre (like GW2 is kinda doing, although they didn't quite do it as much as WOW did back in the day; probably because there were so many more dead branches to prune back then.)

    The genre has been growing for what twenty years? And simply because it isn't growing at the rate that it used to that somehow makes you or the op right?!?!?

    Trust me if every game developed was made like UO or SWG there would be little to no growth we certainly wouldn't have pop culture hits like WOW most of the people I know who are avid gamers hate the old mmorpg genre as evidenced by all the friends I got to try SWG who went running away from it.

    Don't get me wrong I loved SWG for a time but games built like that are basically like making a fine wine in the alcoholic beverage market fine wine is good but I'm certainly not so uptight that it's all I'll drink.

  • raistlinmraistlinm new orleans, LAPosts: 673Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by raistlinm

    Originally posted by Foomerang  

    Originally posted by raistlinm Please don't tell me you are one of those people who thought of the original SWg as having "player driven content".....
      Hmm. Well if players could make just about everything in the game and place those things just about anywhere in the world, do you think that opens the door for player made content? Or how about later when they implemented the storyteller mechanic where you could make scripted events with boss fights and customized loot drops placed anywhere in the world? I guess you and I have differing opinions on what player made content is.
    The funny thing is everything you mentioned encompanses one form of play and that would be combat, you know the aspect of gaming you are trashing this generation of games for relying to heavily on.

     

    Look I have nothing against players who want to spend months on end gathering mats,even if those mats are gathered without having to fight for them as many could do in SWG but the bottom line is they still boil down to combat unless of course as asked in a later post you can give some examples of these dozens of playstyles that involve no combat.

     


     

    It was working its way towards that. When you had classes dedicated to home furnishings, or buffing other crafting classes. Professions whos sole purpose was to change the looks of other characters and offer visual emotes. Classes that could train wild animals to become mounts or classes that could craft vehicles. Classes that made houses, or food that helped people make better clothing. A lot of SWG was fueled by the end goal of better performance in combat. I wont deny that. SWG was far from perfect. But it had the ideas that made mmorpgs its own genre.
    I'm saying if you take games like tony hawk, or sega gt, or any of the plethora of styles of gameplay that do not involve combat, you can see the potential that was there for making this type of virtual world. Especially with the potential an mmo has where you can have a community of people coming together for various goals. You can see that combat is one part of the big picture. And it is hard as hell to move away from such a strong concept.

    We, as a society do not accept death. We fear it, want to avoid it at all costs. So it comes out in our culture. We are death obsessed. We want to conquer it, control and manipulate it. Be the master of it. It gets translated into the concept of a video game. When a video game can be so much more. Especially in a massive community setting.

    This is the post I wish you made as your original post because it avoided the belittling of what todays games offer and as an extension the people who enjoy some of these games. 

    Yes like john Lennon said "imagine",  it would be nice to have games like that and what's more we still have some games like that albeit too few but I'm not going to get on a soapbox and bitch and moan because devs aren't willing to risk their investment on games like UO or SWG when the elephant in the room is WOW I think we should certainly be understanding of why games aren't made like this and move on to the products that support the development style we prefer.

    Another funny thing about this is that the reason I left SWG wasn't the cu or the NGE it was in fact the crappy ass players who more often than not turned out to be those unconventional players who didn't take part in ccombat like the crafters who often cornered markets and screwed them up as bad or worse than the devs do in games now a days or the ones who thought they could talk to anyone anyway they wanted to simply because they controlled so much of the game anyways.

  • mindw0rkmindw0rk St-petersburgPosts: 1,351Member

    Hatters gonna hate, whiners gonna whine, MMORPG genre continues to grow

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by raistlinm
    This is the post I wish you made as your original post because it avoided the belittling of what todays games offer and as an extension the people who enjoy some of these games. Yes like john Lennon said "imagine",  it would be nice to have games like that and what's more we still have some games like that albeit too few but I'm not going to get on a soapbox and bitch and moan because devs aren't willing to risk their investment on games like UO or SWG when the elephant in the room is WOW I think we should certainly be understanding of why games aren't made like this and move on to the products that support the development style we prefer.Another funny thing about this is that the reason I left SWG wasn't the cu or the NGE it was in fact the crappy ass players who more often than not turned out to be those unconventional players who didn't take part in ccombat like the crafters who often cornered markets and screwed them up as bad or worse than the devs do in games now a days or the ones who thought they could talk to anyone anyway they wanted to simply because they controlled so much of the game anyways.

    Ok well thanks for clarifying what you think of me and shared some bad experiences you had in SWG. Probably wasn't the best thread to post in since it seems to have brought up some aggressive behavior but this is a free forum so do as you please.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,708Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by raistlinm

    The genre has been growing for what twenty years? And simply because it isn't growing at the rate that it used to that somehow makes you or the op right?!?!?

    Trust me if every game developed was made like UO or SWG there would be little to no growth we certainly wouldn't have pop culture hits like WOW most of the people I know who are avid gamers hate the old mmorpg genre as evidenced by all the friends I got to try SWG who went running away from it.

    Don't get me wrong I loved SWG for a time but games built like that are basically like making a fine wine in the alcoholic beverage market fine wine is good but I'm certainly not so uptight that it's all I'll drink.

    Were you actually replying to my post?

    I assume not, if you thought my post in any way validated the OP's claims.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

1568101134
Sign In or Register to comment.