Expectations and Expansions

Rictis · July 2012

Hey,

I played guild wars 1 on my friends account so I have no idea how the expansions worked before, I am curious though how expansions will be treated going forward in GW2.

I know the game has not been released yet, however I was wondering about these few questions:

1) What kind of content do you expect from expansions in a B2P game? (I would say simmilar to EQ expansions with hopefully a decent amount of content and fluff)

2) What is an acceptable time frame? (Every 6 months?)

3) What type of content patches are you expecting if any?

4) What is your preferred method of content updates in a B2P model?

5) How much would you pay per expansion? ($40 if the content was worth it)

I think I would prefer to buy expansions and I would like a few free content patches. Realistically I don't expect them to give us too much for free in that regard, at least from my experiance most companies don't bother unless its a f2p model with incentives.

Zeus.CM · July 2012

From expansions I expect:

new zones using the unused land mass,
new slot skills, more dynamic events,
new elder dragon boss,
expasion to personal story,
new pvp maps and modes,
new dungeons
a new surprising feature

Time frame: every year one huge expansion, with a lot free content updates in between

Price: if the size of expasion equals the size of the original game (like it was the case in gw1) then the acceptable price would be the same as the original game (50-60$)

MattVid · July 2012

Guild Wars 1 expansions were almost all stand alone games. They added new classes, new skills, and a completely new campaign. I highly doubt that each expansion will be a comletely 1-80 experience, but I don't really know.

I would definitely expect to see new classes, new races, new skills/weapon options and of course more content. GW2 is much different than GW1, so we are just going to have to wait and see. I doubt the GW2 expansions will be standalone games like the first game had.

terrant · July 2012

Originally posted by Wakygreek
Hey,

I played guild wars 1 on my friends account so I have no idea how the expansions worked before, I am curious though how expansions will be treated going forward in GW2.

I know the game has not been released yet, however I was wondering about these few questions:

1) What kind of content do you expect from expansions in a B2P game? (I would say simmilar to EQ expansions with hopefully a decent amount of content and fluff)

2) What is an acceptable time frame? (Every 6 months?)

3) What type of content patches are you expecting if any?

4) What is your preferred method of content updates in a B2P model?

5) How much would you pay per expansion? ($40 if the content was worth it)

I think I would prefer to buy expansions and I would like a few free content patches. Realistically I don't expect them to give us too much for free in that regard, at least from my experiance most companies don't bother unless its a f2p model with incentives.

First off, define expansion.

Is it a paid expansion, like Cataclysm was for WoW?
Or is it instead like patch 5.3 (free, introduced major additions to content, entire new raids, etc)

For a paid expansion, I expect some or all of the following:

New races/classes
New crafting Professions/recipes
New level cap/New forms of AA
New zones with substanial amounts of new PVE content
New PvP areas
New or seriously overhauled mechanics.

I expect those maybe once ever year or two. It really depends on how quickly you exhaust content.

For large update patches, having maybe 1-2 of the above items (generally PvE/P content added) is fine. They should be done any time current content is exhausted by a majority of the playerbase. That's difficult to quantify.

What would I pay for expansions? Depends on the content. How much are they giving me, and what do I think that is worth?

Rictis · July 2012

Originally posted by MattVid
Guild Wars 1 expansions were almost all stand alone games. They added new classes, new skills, and a completely new campaign. I highly doubt that each expansion will be a comletely 1-80 experience, but I don't really know.

I would definitely expect to see new classes, new races, new skills/weapon options and of course more content. GW2 is much different than GW1, so we are just going to have to wait and see. I doubt the GW2 expansions will be standalone games like the first game had.

While I understand class balancing is hard in MMORPGs, I really really love companies that add new classes into their MMORPG's through expansions. I just wish more companies did it more often. But one of the reasons i posted this thread was because the huge level difference between the first guild wars and the second one. 1-20 to 1-80 is a big difference number wise. Which leads me to think that peoples expectations will be a lot higher now as oppose to GW1. I would pay full game price if the expansions were big enough to include almost what you would consider a full game.

Rictis · July 2012

Originally posted by terrant
Originally posted by Wakygreek
Hey,

I played guild wars 1 on my friends account so I have no idea how the expansions worked before, I am curious though how expansions will be treated going forward in GW2.

I know the game has not been released yet, however I was wondering about these few questions:

1) What kind of content do you expect from expansions in a B2P game? (I would say simmilar to EQ expansions with hopefully a decent amount of content and fluff)

2) What is an acceptable time frame? (Every 6 months?)

3) What type of content patches are you expecting if any?

4) What is your preferred method of content updates in a B2P model?

5) How much would you pay per expansion? ($40 if the content was worth it)

I think I would prefer to buy expansions and I would like a few free content patches. Realistically I don't expect them to give us too much for free in that regard, at least from my experiance most companies don't bother unless its a f2p model with incentives.

First off, define expansion.

Is it a paid expansion, like Cataclysm was for WoW?

Or is it instead like patch 5.3 (free, introduced major additions to content, entire new raids, etc)

For a paid expansion, I expect some or all of the following:

New races/classes

New crafting Professions/recipes

New level cap/New forms of AA

New zones with substanial amounts of new PVE content

New PvP areas

New or seriously overhauled mechanics.

I expect those maybe once ever year or two. It really depends on how quickly you exhaust content.

For large update patches, having maybe 1-2 of the above items (generally PvE/P content added) is fine. They should be done any time current content is exhausted by a majority of the playerbase. That's difficult to quantify.

What would I pay for expansions? Depends on the content. How much are they giving me, and what do I think that is worth?

Just to be clear, when I say "expansion" I mean paid. When I say patch i mean content update that you don't pay for. Hope that helps

ZenonSeth · July 2012

Actually GW1 didn't have 'expansions' (at least the developers didn't call them expansions) at first. Factions and Nightfall weren't 'expansions' but standalone games (sometimes referred to as Campaigns by devs).

You could play Factions and Nightfall just by themselves, never even buying Prophecies (the original).

The only real expansion was Eye Of The North, that required at least 1 of the previous games in order to be played.

Now, the devs had said that Expansions are much more likely than Campaigns in GW2 (though nothing is set in stone)

Judging from EOTN, an expansion should include something like:

New areas with quests/DEs
New cities/towns
New skills for all classes
Perhaps some expanded game mechanics
More personal storyline
New gear/weapon designs

That would be my expectation of Expansions. They might add a few more things, but I think it's unlikely they'll add new classes in expansions. (I think they might add new weapons that each class might use).

I think expansions are likely to be slightly less expensive than the original game, so $20 - $40 seems reasonable. And, yes, I think it will be worth it.

For a full blown additional Campaigns, I'd expect all the stuff from an expansion, only more of it, plus a new class or two.

Campaigns are likely to cost as much as the original game, and if they do them, they'll probably be stand-alone too. And when I say "all the stuff from an expansion, only more of it" - I mean, there should be just as much stuff as there is for this original game on realease.

To be honest though, I don't think they'll go for Campaigns. It fit in well with GW1, but it doesn't seem to sit right with GW2.

And for development times.. 6 months may be too short. All the new things they need to design are now much higher quality than GW1, and would take more time. Maybe they can pull of 6 months for an Expansion, but at least 1 year if there's gonna be new Campaigns.

Edit: Also, on the note of levels, I doubt they'll increase level cap. I also kind of hope they don't. Grinding was never something GW went for, and increased level cap only feels grind-a-licious to me.

Nefera · July 2012

I'm fairly sure at least GW1 veterans could guess the next one or two expansion themes. They've set the story up for it well enough.

The Canthan empire has closed its gates to outsiders, and pretty much any word news coming from there has ceased to exist after a small minor problem has emerged on the sea route from Tyria to Cantha. You know, a minor problem with the name of Zhaitan. After we wipe him out (maybe? hopefully?), this obstruction should no longer exist, right?

I'm expecting more story to cover what's happening, new PvE areas, new dungeons, possibly a higher level cap, and possibly new weapons (=skills). Expansion of PvP modes wouldn't surprise me either.

As for time frame, I'd be guessing around once per year. I remember the devs saying one full campaign each half a year was a bit too fast for them, so I'm expecting a slower pace but better quality content to make up for that. Or rather expansions instead of campaigns (like EotN instead of actual stand-alone campaigns).

Rictis · July 2012

Does anyone know from GW1 if gameplay was ever affected by not purchasing the new campaigns/expansions ? What I mean is, in WoW lets say you never bought Burning Crusade. Would that limit your growth for your character to a point where it would be unplayable with anyone else or were the updates treated more like solo campaigns that did not affect the MMO aspect?

Nefera · July 2012

Originally posted by Wakygreek
Does anyone know from GW1 if gameplay was ever affected by not purchasing the new campaigns/expansions ? What I mean is, in WoW lets say you never bought Burning Crusade. Would that limit your growth for your character to a point where it would be unplayable with anyone else or were the updates treated more like solo campaigns that did not affect the MMO aspect?

You would be worse off in dungeons or some end game group content because you would not have the campaign-specific skills. Either you wouldn't be able to get a group because you were missing skills crucial to the build, or you could get a group if people were friendly, where the standard build for that dungeon run would be modified to include only your campaign skills.

In terms of being able to play through the game, you could still do it fairly easily. You would just have a smaller selection of skills to choose from, but it's definitely doable.

Similar story with PvP, you wouldn't be able to be competitive in ranked matches as you didn't have access to a large portion of skills, but you could still do the more casual PvP modes (like random arenas), and not be completely gimped.

I don't see this mattering as much in GW2, because multiple classes can do similar roles in different ways, whereas in GW1 only a monk could be a prot monk, and often playing a certain role meant having very specific skills, often from different campaigns. You couldn't exactly replace that role with other profession and skills.

evilastro · July 2012

Originally posted by Wakygreek
Hey,

I played guild wars 1 on my friends account so I have no idea how the expansions worked before, I am curious though how expansions will be treated going forward in GW2.

I know the game has not been released yet, however I was wondering about these few questions:

1) What kind of content do you expect from expansions in a B2P game? (I would say simmilar to EQ expansions with hopefully a decent amount of content and fluff)

2) What is an acceptable time frame? (Every 6 months?)

3) What type of content patches are you expecting if any?

4) What is your preferred method of content updates in a B2P model?

5) How much would you pay per expansion? ($40 if the content was worth it)

I think I would prefer to buy expansions and I would like a few free content patches. Realistically I don't expect them to give us too much for free in that regard, at least from my experiance most companies don't bother unless its a f2p model with incentives.

1) The same as in Guild Wars 1. New professions. New areas to discover and new challenges. Also a bit of a shake up in PvP every expansion, often aided by the introduction of new classes or class rebalancing.

2) 6 months if they arent doing monthly updates. A year if they are. I saw on the Kotaku developer chat that they have a Live Update team, which means they will be providing free content updates between expansions. You can find the interview here:

http://kotaku.com/5928822/one-of-the-designers-of-guild-wars-2-is-answering-your-questions-right-now

And these are the important parts relating to content updates:

"All of the content that the Live Team releases will be free."

"The Live Team will be adding things new and interesting things to keep the world alive. Stay tuned for more on this post-launch! (It's going to be exciting.)"

"I think MMOs thrive on the strength of their communities. We've tried to build a game from the ground up that supports gamers coming and playing together. We've created a diverse world with tons of secrets and treasures hidden through out the world. We've created a game that allows players to feel like a hero and feel like they're making a difference in the world. And with the launch of the game, our service is just beginning. The Live Team will be doing content updates and adding new things for players to experience and enjoy. And with no subscription fee, it's not a bad thing to us if you set the game down for a while. We'll just be creating interesting stories and content for the land of Tyria for when you decide you want to pop back in and see what's new."

3) More PvP maps, class / build balancing, new dungeons and appearances.

4) Large expansions like in GW1. Adventure packs are annoying and just segregate the community.

5) $50. The same price I paid for the base game, assuming they provide an equal amount of new content.

Personally I loved the GW1 setup. It worked perfectly. There was no obligation to buy any of the other expansions (hell, you didnt even need to buy the original prophecies game to play Nightfall or Factions) and they all worked together in PvP. I don't think GW2 will work the same, I think everyone will need the base game.

ZenonSeth · July 2012

Originally posted by Wakygreek
Does anyone know from GW1 if gameplay was ever affected by not purchasing the new campaigns/expansions ? What I mean is, in WoW lets say you never bought Burning Crusade. Would that limit your growth for your character to a point where it would be unplayable with anyone else or were the updates treated more like solo campaigns that did not affect the MMO aspect?

As Nefera already said, in GW1 it had some effect. Making a necromancer without Flesh Golem, a purely Factions skill, wasn't really a good idea.

But the thing is, in GW1 the emphasis on skills was much greater. You had full control over your skillbar. In GW2 the main weapons skills remain more or less unchanged, and I doubt they'll be adding that many new skills (one of the things they wanted to avoid is too many skills, since in the original, they said it became too hard to balance).

So, I doubt in GW2 it will affect your competativness. Most likely it will be just new stuff that curious and bored people would enjoy, different gameplays, and still keep those classes balanced with all the other ones.

Mike-McQueen · July 2012

I just want the dwarves to come back.

ZenonSeth · July 2012

Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
I just want the dwarves to come back.

Hate to break it to you, but the dwarves were all turned to some sort of living stone, in an effort to defeat the dragons. Apparently this wiped them of individuality and sense of purpose, and they dispersed through the depths of Tyria.

If they do come back, they'll be enemies I suspect, maybe some will be friendly, but none will be playable, is my guess.

I think ANet is purposfully trying to eliminate any 'standard' fantasy elements in their game. Dwarves were one of the few that they had to begin with, and now they've done away with them.

I gotta admit, those dwarves were OK.

evilastro · July 2012

Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
I just want the dwarves to come back.

They may come back. But they are all currently Stone Dwarves and holding off the remaining Destroyers.

Stone Dwarves could make a cool race for future expansions.

terrant · July 2012

Originally posted by ZenonSeth
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
I just want the dwarves to come back.

Hate to break it to you, but the dwarves were all turned to some sort of living stone, in an effort to defeat the dragons. Apparently this wiped them of individuality and sense of purpose, and they dispersed through the depths of Tyria.

If they do come back, they'll be enemies I suspect, maybe some will be friendly, but none will be playable, is my guess.

I think ANet is purposfully trying to eliminate any 'standard' fantasy elements in their game. Dwarves were one of the few that they had to begin with, and now they've done away with them.

I gotta admit, those dwarves were OK.

While adding a slender, delkicate races closely attuned to nature? And a bunch of short crazy people who tinker with gadgets too much? While there's a big difference, those are still Elves and Gnomes. Anet put a fantastic new spin on old racial ideas, but a spade's a spade even when it also makes julienne fries.

That said, i'd be interested in seeing the Dwarves come back, altough I kinda half expect the Hylek or the Tengu to be playable first.

Juaks · July 2012

For expansions I expect they bring back Cantha and Elona continents. ( Which one first I dont know)

With each expansion they will be adding new races and classes. (We are still missing, Paragon, Ritualist, Dervish etc. ) and of course new skills and traits. Continuation of personal story, more DEs, quests, armor sets and weapons, new sPvP battlegrounds and maybe expand the WvW? or maybe a 2nd one in Cantha?

Expect the paid expansions once a year. They also stated there will be free DLC in a regular basis.

I wonder if they will be adding more levels or introduce an horizontal progression....

ZenonSeth · July 2012

Originally posted by terrant
Originally posted by ZenonSeth

... While there's a big difference, those are still Elves and Gnomes. ...

Hahaha.. sorry, that sentence there made me laugh. It's not that I necessarily think you're wrong, but it reminds me of the old joke that Boxing is like Ballet, except there's no music and the dancers hit each other.

Thing is, elves are usually the older, wisest races, not the newly born ones. Not to mention that the Sylvari are plants... heh, if anything they're like Zhaan from Farscape. (I'm making a sylvari with that name ASAP!)

The Asura, ok... they sound a lot like gnomes, but they just look so..alien. They also have more modern technology in my opinion, not the steam-punkish tech that certain other games portray the gnomes as.

Also, by the standards you're comparing them to, one could say that goblins and gnomes are identical. But I think that's far from the case. I think there's more to a race (technically species) than just their height and favored method of fighting.

Mrlogic · July 2012

Expansions has not even entered my mind, at this point (pre-release) it feel irrelevant to me. But if I am going to play with the thought I would like to see proper expansions every other year. I think this time frame or a wider one is healhtier for a game rather than banging shit out every 6th month or so. With expansions every other year you give players a chance to let it settle and it's good for general structure and order in a game and you can focus on quality.

Ice-Queen · July 2012

From expansions I expect what arenanet said they'd have, housing. That's all I care about in an expansion.

Istavaan · July 2012

Hopefully the expansions are not full of top heavy content, that just kills games in my opinion.

Msenge · July 2012

I hope to see both Cantha and Elona eventually. Though I really really hope that when it come time to go to Elona we don't kill Palawa Joko off completely. I love the banter between him and Mad King Thorn too much to see it disappear forever.

MattVid · July 2012

Originally posted by Wakygreek
Originally posted by MattVid

Guild Wars 1 expansions were almost all stand alone games. They added new classes, new skills, and a completely new campaign. I highly doubt that each expansion will be a comletely 1-80 experience, but I don't really know.

I would definitely expect to see new classes, new races, new skills/weapon options and of course more content. GW2 is much different than GW1, so we are just going to have to wait and see. I doubt the GW2 expansions will be standalone games like the first game had.

While I understand class balancing is hard in MMORPGs, I really really love companies that add new classes into their MMORPG's through expansions. I just wish more companies did it more often. But one of the reasons i posted this thread was because the huge level difference between the first guild wars and the second one.

I still don't think that rules out new classes. I mean, the old guild wars campaigns literally added hundreds of skills for old classes as well as 4-5 brand new classes in EACH one. That is a lot. I could definitely see them introducing 3-4 new classes each expansion if they really wanted. At the very least, more skills for the current ones.

Personally, I don't think the level difference is a big deal. I would most definitely try out a new race and/or a new class in an expansion even if I had to start out at level one. Adding one full 1-80 zone of content seems like it could be about right for an expansion. Or maybe something like a new race and a 1-15, and a 15-25 area. Then new 70-80 zones and a new level 80 (or even 80+) zone if they choose to raise the level cap.

I expect we see a lot of solid stuff coming our way, is all I know. I know I will be coming back to try out this new stuff as it arrives even if I stop playing GW2 for a while ... just as I did with GW1.

L0C0Man · July 2012

Originally posted by Wakygreek
Hey,

I played guild wars 1 on my friends account so I have no idea how the expansions worked before, I am curious though how expansions will be treated going forward in GW2.

I know the game has not been released yet, however I was wondering about these few questions:

1) What kind of content do you expect from expansions in a B2P game? (I would say simmilar to EQ expansions with hopefully a decent amount of content and fluff)

2) What is an acceptable time frame? (Every 6 months?)

3) What type of content patches are you expecting if any?

4) What is your preferred method of content updates in a B2P model?

5) How much would you pay per expansion? ($40 if the content was worth it)

I think I would prefer to buy expansions and I would like a few free content patches. Realistically I don't expect them to give us too much for free in that regard, at least from my experiance most companies don't bother unless its a f2p model with incentives.

Based on what they did with GW1, these are my expectations:

1) A full storyline from beggining to end probably ending in a battle against another elder dragon, a new class or race, a new main city, new areas probably as big as 1/4 or more of the world we already have if not more. EotN had a LOT of new areas to play on, and that was the only real expansion GW1 got since the other two (Nightfall and Factions) that included a world about as big as the Prophecies one were stand alone campaigns. As for content, I expect them using the lands that were on GW1 and are off-limits so far (Cantha, Elona, Northern Shiverpeaks), more PvP types, maybe even a second set of WvW maps down the road.

2) I'd say every 6 months or so for big expansions, I'd prefer even more time between them but then again I'm a slow player. 6 months seems to be the sweet spot IMHO.

3) If you mean free content patches, I expect new dynamic events added to existing zones, maybe new world bosses, maybe a new dungeon or area from time to time for free (they did that on GW1)

4) Expansions added in the cash shop with the option to buy them with either gems or directly with money.

5) Up to 60$ (what I paid for the game) if it has as much content as the original game when it comes to new areas and dungeons, less than that depending on how much content it has. They'll probably be priced around the $40 range, though, like EotN was when it was released.

Originally posted by Istavaan
Hopefully the expansions are not full of top heavy content, that just kills games in my opinion.

If I had to guess, they might do something like with Eye of the North. Basically, the EotN content was meant for level 20 chars (GW1 level cap)... however, you could enter it as early as level 10, your character was upgraded to level 20 stats while you were in the EotN areas.

Rictis · July 2012

@MrLogic, Not sure if every other year would be good enough. Most expansions don't usually last more than a month or two in most situations. Is there something in the game that you think may provide additional longevity?

Rictis · July 2012

Originally posted by Istavaan
Hopefully the expansions are not full of top heavy content, that just kills games in my opinion.

Im sorry but can you or someone else clarify what you mean by top heavy content? I don't recall hearing that term before. Do you mean content with a focus on end game?

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