Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Paratus: more than 200 items brings server to its knees

2»

Comments

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psykobilly

     

    From Paratus:

    "While the numbers aren't finalized, we must impose a limit on the total number of banked items globally. The reason for this is that, with the introduction of bags, there could be a seemingly endless bank capacity which would bring our servers to their knees. The solution for now is as I've described. If you have a home base, say Bakti for example, you could store 200 items in that bank and not use other city banks."

    Anyone else shocked at the bank limits?  200 items per character is a pathetically small amount for a modern MMO.  I had thousands of items in my Darkfall bank.  Modern databases easily deal with millions of items.  Something is horribly wrong with the engineering design here.  

    Before deathshroud chirps in:  yes I know you can have additional items in your house, that still doesn't excuse the abysmal limitations of the item database.

     

    I don't think I even own 200 items in real life. I used to own 200 CDs but have gotten rid of them over the years.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • SHOE788SHOE788 Ankeny, IAPosts: 700Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Bobbie203

    Ive never in my life heard of bank limitations on any mmorpg in my life, what kind of server are theyt runnign from the 1990's?

    Must be an old server that cant handle mroe then 200 items in character bank toons.

     

    IT's getting from bad to worst.

    Well, Lineage 2 had bank limits and I believe LOTRO has bank limits as well. i know one needs to upgrade to various tiers until you get to the top but there is a limit.

    So I'm not too surprised.

    Older games to be sure but it's not unheard of. There could  be more.

    Theres a difference between limiting it by design and limiting it because of technical reasons.

    A good example of this is World of Warcraft, where unique items have skyrocketed while bank space has remained almost constant through the years. When it was asked if bank sizes would increase, designers said that they wouldn't because they wanted players to choose what items were important to them and discard the rest, making players more unique with their trinkets, tabards, and armor.

  • raff01raff01 PARISPosts: 453Member
    Originally posted by Bobbie203

    Ive never in my life heard of bank limitations on any mmorpg in my life, what kind of server are theyt runnign from the 1990's?

    Must be an old server that cant handle mroe then 200 items in character bank toons.

     

    IT's getting from bad to worst.

    Hey, Everquest 1 was 1999 and could hold millions of items

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by Ujirik

    Hey, Mortal Online is an indie game made with a small budget to begin with and wasn't successful on launch.  Why are you surprised by the lack of cutting edge technology and top notch server capacity?

    Expectation: AAA results

    Reality: indie developer trying to stay afloat

    Lesson: Nobody gets a break and if you're going to try to go out on your own to start a game company, be prepared for folks to turn on you - it's the way of the gamer world.

    As far as the bag limit, I would guess there is more going on than just a technological limitation.  Just a hunch.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member
    Originally posted by GrumpyCharr
    Originally posted by Ujirik

    Hey, Mortal Online is an indie game made with a small budget to begin with and wasn't successful on launch.  Why are you surprised by the lack of cutting edge technology and top notch server capacity?

    Expectation: AAA results

    Reality: indie developer trying to stay afloat

    Lesson: Nobody gets a break and if you're going to try to go out on your own to start a game company, be prepared for folks to turn on you - it's the way of the gamer world.

    As far as the bag limit, I would guess there is more going on than just a technological limitation.  Just a hunch.

    f2p is an impossbility for MO. Anyone whos played the game for more than an hour will realise that. The game is way to buggy and exploitable, without a subscription model to monitor players the game would be ruined compeltely by exploiters hackers and dupers within the first few days of it ever gonig f2p. Game has its issues with dupes etc currently but no more so than most indie mmos and thats mostly down to thecost of subscription and the possibility of banned acounts.

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • SaintPhilipSaintPhilip Bree, MIPosts: 713Member
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    Originally posted by GrumpyCharr
    Originally posted by Ujirik

    Hey, Mortal Online is an indie game made with a small budget to begin with and wasn't successful on launch.  Why are you surprised by the lack of cutting edge technology and top notch server capacity?

    Expectation: AAA results

    Reality: indie developer trying to stay afloat

    Lesson: Nobody gets a break and if you're going to try to go out on your own to start a game company, be prepared for folks to turn on you - it's the way of the gamer world.

    As far as the bag limit, I would guess there is more going on than just a technological limitation.  Just a hunch.

    f2p is an impossbility for MO. Anyone whos played the game for more than an hour will realise that. The game is way to buggy and exploitable, without a subscription model to monitor players the game would be ruined compeltely by exploiters hackers and dupers within the first few days of it ever gonig f2p. Game has its issues with dupes etc currently but no more so than most indie mmos and thats mostly down to thecost of subscription and the possibility of banned acounts.

    F2P is impossible, true.

    Cash shop is totally possible and I am begining to expect one soon. MO needs  subs and if they do not get them soon they will have to raise revenue from...Somewhere.

    Most people multi-account already (er..Alot do. Not sure about most) and this would be another way to get a few Dollars a month more from many existing accounts - Sell Bag Space and such.

    I hope not. But it wouldnt surprise me. The only people left right now are the hardest of the hardcore it seems. (hardcore fanboys I mean) and they would all throw Henrik a few more bucks a month without question.

  • argiropargirop AthensPosts: 300Member
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip

    F2P is impossible, true.

    Cash shop is totally possible and I am begining to expect one soon. MO needs  subs and if they do not get them soon they will have to raise revenue from...Somewhere.

    Most people multi-account already (er..Alot do. Not sure about most) and this would be another way to get a few Dollars a month more from many existing accounts - Sell Bag Space and such.

    I hope not. But it wouldnt surprise me. The only people left right now are the hardest of the hardcore it seems. (hardcore fanboys I mean) and they would all throw Henrik a few more bucks a month without question.

    Well Sv keeps on proving that they are hungry for money. I have 2 accounts aswell but tbh its being a long time i have the feeling that SV doesnt deserve the sub money not even from 1 account. I was expecting for Awakening to be released but each time i see what they are doing, the patches, the half assed solutions that usually ends bad towards the customers and the playerbase i honestly dont feel like giving any more money to SV simply cause nothing is going to change in their ways and cause simply they dont deserve it.

     

    The only thing i could throw to Henrik is a frozen yogurt right in the face. No more bucks for him not a single cent actually.

  • WollkneulWollkneul CallanPosts: 17Member

    Interesting how every person in the internet becomes a professional game developer, when it comes to discussions about this topic.

    The difference between MO and other games is, that a lot of items in MO have unique stats. So if you storage 100 swords in WoW you can save the number of swords and their stats, but one time. In MO you would have to save the number and 100 stats.

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Wollkneul

    Interesting how every person in the internet becomes a professional game developer, when it comes to discussions about this topic.

    The difference between MO and other games is, that a lot of items in MO have unique stats. So if you storage 100 swords in WoW you can save the number of swords and their stats, but one time. In MO you would have to save the number and 100 stats.

    ...

  • FastSlothFastSloth ParisPosts: 132Member

    Here's another thread where the remaining desperate MO followers try to help Henrik with a solution to bridge SV's lack of technical skills: http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/threads/an-idea-to-the-bank-problem.76538/

     

    It even has a Henrik reply:

     

    Originally posted by Henrik N.

     "We could straight out, but then the local cap wont be 75 it will be 50, and then you can choose a home bank to 200. but no other ever over 50."

     

    Sounds like Awakening will keep MO hardcore. XD

     

    EDIT: Oh my. The thread gets better on page 2:

    Originally posted by Henrik N.

    I think this could be a decent in between solution that is optional for us and the time we have to set this.
    And yes, we do want to tie this to TC citizens and upkeep, since we do need this a lot. Though we cannot expand on this system to much since it could lead to a delay of Awakening that we do not plan to do. Of course this should do a good enough start, and somewhat expandable afterwards.

    Translation: "Yes everything is awesome, will be awesome, and will be even more awesome later (much much later)."

     

    Hey good news. Awakening won't be delayed.

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by FastSloth

    Here's another thread where the remaining desperate MO followers try to help Henrik with a solution to bridge SV's lack of technical skills: http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/threads/an-idea-to-the-bank-problem.76538/

     

    It even has a Henrik reply:

     

    Originally posted by Henrik N.

     "We could straight out, but then the local cap wont be 75 it will be 50, and then you can choose a home bank to 200. but no other ever over 50."

     

    Sounds like Awakening will keep MO hardcore. XD

     

    EDIT: Oh my. The thread gets better on page 2:

    Originally posted by Henrik N.

    I think this could be a decent in between solution that is optional for us and the time we have to set this.
    And yes, we do want to tie this to TC citizens and upkeep, since we do need this a lot. Though we cannot expand on this system to much since it could lead to a delay of Awakening that we do not plan to do. Of course this should do a good enough start, and somewhat expandable afterwards.

    Translation: "Yes everything is awesome, will be awesome, and will be even more awesome later (much much later)."

     

    Hey good news. Awakening won't be delayed.

    Doesnt want to delay Awakening??? image   Umm... I think Henrik coded his own calendar and its bugged.   April 2012 is that way <------

  • WollkneulWollkneul CallanPosts: 17Member
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Wollkneul

    Interesting how every person in the internet becomes a professional game developer, when it comes to discussions about this topic.

    The difference between MO and other games is, that a lot of items in MO have unique stats. So if you storage 100 swords in WoW you can save the number of swords and their stats, but one time. In MO you would have to save the number and 100 stats.

    I find it laughable people still try to rationalize Starvaults inability to code. 

     I find it laughable people are still unable to argue rationally, if it's about something they hate.

  • psykobillypsykobilly NYC, NYPosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by Wollkneul

     I find it laughable people are still unable to argue rationally, if it's about something they hate.

    I find it laughable that you think weapons in Mortal online have 100 stats and fail to back it up with anything rational.

    Not only that, but you seem to think that even if swords do have 100 stats, that it would amount to a lot of data per sword... so much as to cause the database to hit some kind of limitation.  As if storage space is some kind of rare commodity.  

    The fact is that the devs won't come out and say WHY there is any limitation at all, and that is worrisome in itself.  

     

     

     

     

  • indiramournindiramourn Moorpark, CAPosts: 884Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrumpyCharr
     

    Lesson: Nobody gets a break and if you're going to try to go out on your own to start a game company, be prepared for folks to turn on you - it's the way of the gamer world.

    Actually the lesson is: If you create a C- product and charge a Triple A product price for it, be preparied for folks to turn on you.

  • WollkneulWollkneul CallanPosts: 17Member
    Originally posted by psykobilly
    Originally posted by Wollkneul

     I find it laughable people are still unable to argue rationally, if it's about something they hate.

    I find it laughable that you think weapons in Mortal online have 100 stats and fail to back it up with anything rational.

    Not only that, but you seem to think that even if swords do have 100 stats, that it would amount to a lot of data per sword... so much as to cause the database to hit some kind of limitation.  As if storage space is some kind of rare commodity.  

    The fact is that the devs won't come out and say WHY there is any limitation at all, and that is worrisome in itself.  

     

     

     

    You clearly didn't undestand what i meant. I wrote nowhere, that a weapon in MO has 100 stats. 

    I wrote that every weapon/ a lot of items have individual stats, not pointing out how many.

     

    So in a normal game you can save the stat of a weapon somewhere and just save a reference to that stat. But in mortal online you have to save every stat of every weapon and you can't use references.

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by Wollkneul

    So in a normal game you can save the stat of a weapon somewhere and just save a reference to that stat. But in mortal online you have to save every stat of every weapon and you can't use references.

    ...which is just bad design, especially if you're an amateur coder. I don't know why SV always make things harder for themselves.

    Hobby modders trying to make a twitch-based, fpv MMO in a seamless world, with overly complex features like individual gear stats, mount genes and multiple hitboxes? No wonder it turned out to be a mess.

  • psykobillypsykobilly NYC, NYPosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by Biskop

    Hobby modders trying to make a twitch-based, fpv MMO in a seamless world, with overly complex features like individual gear stats, mount genes and multiple hitboxes? No wonder it turned out to be a mess.

    Well here is the reason I found Seb give for the bank limits:

    The issue is not mainly with the database being to large, we need control over that too but the limits are not for that. The issues is that the way the engine was built to handle items is not very effective for bank items. What this means is pretty much that you get bank items sent to you client even thou you might not be looking in a bank.
    So the limit is to limit the amount of server outdata that gets sent to clients. Also getting a lot of items sent to your client could slow it down when crossing nodes etc.

    It sounds like he is blaming it on unreal engine.  Why the fuck would bank items be sent to clients when you aren't looking in a bank?  This could explain some of the major issues with the game.  For fuck sake REWRITE THE BANK CODE.  That is totally absurd.

    And the bank data gets (re)sent when you cross nodes?  Big surprise there is node lag lol. C'mon this has to be one of the single biggest fuckups in the code.  

    Bank data should only be sent when the bank is opened.  If the client absolutely needs to have all the bank data in game cached, then cache the damn data at client start up... not while you are playing the game.

    Bad code is really fucking bad.

    PS.  The item data sent to the client is unencrypted in RAM.

     

     

     

     

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by psykobilly

    And the bank data gets (re)sent when you cross nodes?  Big surprise there is node lag lol. C'mon this has to be one of the single biggest fuckups in the code.  

    Bank data should only be sent when the bank is opened.  If the client absolutely needs to have all the bank data in game cached, then cache the damn data at client start up... not while you are playing the game.

    Bad code is really fucking bad.

    PS.  The item data sent to the client is unencrypted in RAM.

     

     

     

     

    I think caching it locally will only make duping that mush easier, but spamming the client isnt viable either. MO has MAJOR issues on so many core level areas its beyond repair, needs a complete rebuild.

  • psykobillypsykobilly NYC, NYPosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by myndziuss

    [mod edit]

    Well I never unsubbed until recently, and that's just boredom because there is nothing to accomplish when you have done everything in game.  I joined another guild way before that.  Your insights are worthless and show you know nothing about what goes on in game.

    Being critical of a major engineering failure is hardly a quest to repel new players.  In case you missed it - the bank code SV has in the engine now is completely fucked and is a major performance drag on everyone playing.  I have been highly critical of SV's poor business practices and development choices from day 1 as anyone on this forum knows (except you apparently).  Though I also post _solutions_ to the issues which is an attempt to get them addressed.  

    New players aren't repelled by forum posting... they are repelled by the free trial.

     

     

     

  • ShyaticShyatic Hell, NJPosts: 41Member

    I'm amazed this game is still around, given that even SWTOR is going free to play. Especially given its quality. I haven't heard a good thing about this game in almost EVER, and I've been watching it for quite some time.

     

    I am thinking my hopes for a good PvP game is going... GW2 seems okay, but at least it's functional unlike what MO seems to be.

2»
Sign In or Register to comment.