The fact of the matter is this: Gamers who want to play with each other will simply do so. It doesn’t matter if the game is a sandbox game or a themepark game. It doesn’t matter if you can solo to level cap or not. The beauty is that we now have options to experience these games how we want. Could MMOs use more group centric content to give those so inclined more challenges to tackle? Maybe. But complaints that an MMO that clearly has group content (whether it has enough of it is subjective) is a singleplayer game because it doesn’t explicitly force you to play with others is just ridiculous.
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I have to respond to this statement.
It absolutely matters whether you can solo to level cap or not. What you are missing is the fact that in order to allow for soloing, you have to design the base tenets of the game around *gasp* soloing.
I'll use EQ as an example of a game that promoted grouping but still allowed for soloing, vs a soloing game that allows for grouping, which is what we have with every new release now.
In EQ you got XP bonuses for grouping. Group mobs gave more overall XP per person than if you went and killed solo mobs. Dungeons designed for groups had XP bonuses. The better loot in the game generally came from group areas. Could you go and kill mobs solo for xp? yes. All the way up to end game the open world areas had plenty of places you could XP to your hearts delight as a soloer, but there was a clear, DEFINED benefit to grouping.
Now, there is only a clear defined benefit to grouping at "end game" and its only gear related. There is almost always no point in grouping along the way in most of these games outside of the joy of seeing the group content. Of course that means you may also miss a lot of the solo content, so its 6 of one half a dozen of the other.
My feeling is that it isn't a problem at all that SWTOR was designed with soloing in mind. The problem is that it was designed with "single player" in mind. Now you're probably thinking...WTF are you talking about? Those are the same things.
I would disagree.
IMO, there is a big difference between soloing in an MMORPG, and playing single player. A great example of soloing in an MMORPG, is when you are just wandering around doing stuff in GW2. You are ungrouped, so you are solo. But at the same time, you are CONSTANTLY interacting with other players in the world, even if you aren't grouped with them. You are helping them, being helped by them, and being affected by the things they do.
Contrast this with SWTOR where a large portion of the game is played in instances. When you are soloing in an instance...you are playing single player. And even if you're in a group instance, you're basically playing "coop RPG" because you and your group are the only people in the "world" for all intents and purposes.
So my issue with TOR was not that it was heavy on soloing, but that it was heavy on single player,
Excellent article. I agree with every point. However, I do believe that, because of the story emphasis, grouping was discouraged though not by design. My brother and I started in the Sith area and I was a sorceror and he was a warrior. It was kind of pointless to group because we were following two different story lines. Sure we grouped but it was boring for the person that was not in the story line. Maybe this is why people say that it is a single-player mmo.
I don't really care what you refer to the game as. I just find it boring. The inclusion of a 'personal story' indicates that at least a portion of the game is single player by design.
I didn't mind that actually. I don't really like playing with other people to be honest. I can level much faster and get more done in a shorter amount of time while playing on my own - generally speaking.
Granted, I only played for a month before the bordom sause got to be too much for me - so maybe things change above lvl 30. Dunno. Don't really care either.
What really killed it for me was how insulated I felt while playing. There are 2 factions? Really? REALLY? Well... I don't believe you. So there.
I mean, I never saw another faction while playing. Nope. Not once. I don't believe the other faction's planets exist either. I'm sure I would have gone there to sneak around and try not to get caught if they actually existed.
For that matter, the planets I was on didn't really exist either. I mean, not really. I kept running into invisible walls everywhere I went. That and I couldn't climb hills or jump properly to boot - that was really annoying.
It felt more like I was trapped on a holodeck somewhere ( whatever a holodeck is ;-p ) as opposed to existing on an actual planet.
I did like that I had a companion. It meant that I didn't have to group with people for harder content for the most part
I found the crafting to be 'just ok'. Although I did like that I could send off a companion or two to do it for me while I did an instance and put up with nubs 'needing' loot that wasn't meant for their class.
I don't really care about story and lore and all that junk. I just like pushing the button and getting a shiny. Call me base and id-centric if you must. I don't really care about your opinion anyway. To that end - the fully voiced story etc.. lost it's shine very quickly for me.
I mean, if I want immersive story - then I'll play Dragon Age. There it makes sense to go slow and enjoy the journey. There's no rush to keep up. You're not in a race with anyone.
MMOs aren't about going slow and enjoying the journey. They're about keeping up with the Jones. Everyone else is racking up X-number of maxed out characters, so you'd better grind like crazy so you can brag about your numbers as well. Everyone else is grinding out the best gear in the game, so you'd better do it too or else you'll feel like you've failed somehow.
No, MMOs were never about enjoying the ride. It's the rat race in digital form - every time you add other people into the mix, it's you vs them. Even if they're friends. Either you keep up, or they move on to find people who will.
So I say SWtOR is a 'meh' game. I put my money where my mouth is and I stopped paying / playing. I've been playing the BWE1/2/3 for GW2 - it solves some problems, but has some of it's own unique pitfalls too. We'll see how it goes.
MMO isn't a game that gives you a possibility to play with other people. Almost every game does that. MMO is a game that is a constant interaction with other people, from the moment you log in, and it has a persistant world.
I will admit 2 things I did do alot of group quests levelling in swtor, I tried to do all of them in each zone. I would either ask for or see messages for pugs to do them.
Even the other day I missed the star wars universe as an mmo, the sad fact is there is nothing to go back for in my opinion. Plus with all the huge amounts of lay-offs (hundreds of people over 6 months), I dont see how without those people they are going to be able to crank out top notch content to compete with the upcoming releases and expansions.
I tried my best to like and play swtor but with the lag due to the engine, the lack of cool things to do at 50 and what seems to be a severe disconnect between the players and the developers i.e "sub drops are the fault of casuals" and the mass locking of half decent threads that put simply other games allow to stay. All keeps me away.
It was going to be the game I played for years, I did my bit I purchased the game, I subbed and levelled 2 toons to 50. MMORPGs are a business relationship between consumer and provider, as far as I am concerned they didnt keep their end of the bargain up.
The only ridiculous notion here was the one by the article writer. If you can't figure out that SWTOR was specifically designed to be played single player, then you need to take the blinders off.
This game was hand holding taken to the extreme. The only challenge was a brief pause while you figured out how to play your next alt.
Now the game is really single player because finding someone to group with is a task all by itself.
Attempting to stay the fanboy course with this game is truly laughable at this stage of the game.
The big question is how long will EA continue to fund LA with it's fees. You can bet LA upped them significantly over what SOE payed for SWG. My guess is the servers are all off line within two years. EA does not fund losers long.
MMO isn't a game that gives you a possibility to play with other people. Almost every game does that. MMO is a game that is a constant interaction with other people, from the moment you log in, and it has a persistant world.
Then Rift isnt an MMORPG either, because its designed so you dont have to interact with other people. Want to do an invasion? You dont even have to ask to join the raid for it, you are automatically put in there. Once in the raid it is just a bunch of people soloing, there is no difference between another player and an NPC. Outside of dungeon quests, Rift has almost no group quests and FAR less incentive than SWToR to group while leveling since SWToR has more group quests than any other AAA MMORPG released since EQ2.
And Rift certainly isnt the only one. Most MMORPGs are like this nowadays.
Now the game is really single player because finding someone to group with is a task all by itself.
Well, its obvious you are blindly 'hating' and have no grip on reality. SWtoR servers are plenty active. Its because they effectively condensed most of them, but they are certainly active now. Next time try being informed before typing hatred.
My issue with SWTOR as a NON-multiplayer game rises mostly from their actively discouraging group play. (Maybe this has been fixed, maybe not)
Have a friend that also want to play a Jedi to go with your Jedi? Either tell him to stay home, or prepare to do that class instance twice... Come on! What other game actively punishes you for daring to double up on 1 class?
As to Flashpoints, yes they are for groups, yet nothing I have ever seen drop in one couldn't also be got solo. As well, the random nature of the 'winner' of each step of a conversations progress often results in jumbled storylines, at least use a consesus system so that if most players choose the Light ending for instance, the one off Dark player that wins a roll doesn't speak for all.
Yes, SWTOT 'allows' multi-player, but really doesn't favor it, require it, or even encourage it.
I only joined groups for flashpoints. if i came up to a 2+ 3+ or 5player or flashpoint i could just stand thier for like 5 min at launch and some random would invite me and we would beat it. I had no reason to lvl with somone else, it was actually less experience for me to go trew the questing areas as a team. At the end of reaching lvl 50 it was just about grinding gear. I gave up after i got my champion set. I had no intrest to grin fleet gear, since there was no real good explination of which I started at first or how to get good enough gear by grinding daileys solo to get the world medals to get the gear. Sorry but untill you can fleet or when if at all you want a flashpoint which is not necessary it is a single player mmo with multiplayer optional.
No, it is not single player at all. You are just unhappy that it isn't a forced grouping game. You're either too lazy to do it on your own or you're just a control freak who can't get his group on without others being forced to join you.
I don't care if thier is forced grouping or not I personally don't see the point of grouping at lower lvls because it acomplishes nothing. Before the legacy update where they made it so you could ungem purples/un mod. There was 0 reason to run flashpoints except for fun because non of the stuff was woth anything if you just kept going solo which gave you more exp. It didn't have any kind of flyff system where you gained more in a party you were penalized for playing with others. half exp is a good motiv to play alone tell endgame. Then at endgame same ol grind. Now you can't skip th3e convos if you want companion rep farm so you have to wait trew all the cg's. I'm not lazy there just isn't a point to do it. How is somone who never made a guild and always joins other peoples groups a control freak?
The thing about Star Wars is so many people LOVE it and if you screw around and start mixing up the elements people are going to freak out. Look at the rage aimed at George Lucas for the rereleases of the original movies changes/additions and then the new movies too. Some things just shouldnt tampered with and if you dont know and love Star Wars, you probably shouldnt be working on a Star Wars project.
I don't really care what you refer to the game as. I just find it boring. The inclusion of a 'personal story' indicates that at least a portion of the game is single player by design.
Wow. You created your account in 2006 and waited six years to make your first post? You must really hate this game to come out of lurking for this.
Nice effort, OP, if, I'm afraid, wasted. At this point anything and everything about ToR has become a matter of herd mentality, with very little individual thought or consideration involved. I have no doubt most of the people posting could simultaneously complain about ToR being a raid-based gear grind -- which, for better or ill, it is -- and whine about it being a single-player RPG... Without ever seeing the inherent contradiction.
Not a contradiction at all really. We can agree that leveling and endgame are two different enteties right? So yeah SRPG until you hit the raid hampster wheel. Did I fall into your herd mentality because I can see them as different? Did I just have an individual thought or did someone else give me my understandings on what I like and how I view SWTOR. But it is easier to deiscredit peoples negative opinions by stating they are incapable of coming to their own conclusions, especially when they don't mirror yours. How about adding to the discussion?
I suspect the big driver for comments like “swtor is a single player game with a monthly fee” is the economy. Some people can afford to pay the monthly fee for whatever game they want to play, others can not. If and when the economy improves we may see less of this kind of statement.
WoW used to have elite mobs in the starting zones, now it doesn’t. Remember the elite scorpion in the Orc starting area? Some level 5’s would group to do that quest, most others would just ignore it and possibly come back when they could solo it. That is exactly how most group content is being handled in swtor now a days.
I suspect, the big fault that so many have with the solo’fication of MMOs is the effect on the Trinity. More players build a solo build, this would be a high dps role. The tank or healer roles would be seen or felt as impossible to level solo. The result, less availability of these roles at end game, or players that don’t know their class role in a group.
The Prince of all sandboxes, SWG was a game that you could level to max AFK in three days Pre-CU. But during the last phase of the Village, when it was over run with elite Sith mobs. I heard time and time again, that was the most fun that SWG players had ever had in that game. Elite mobs that required at min three Max leveled players to complete. And still these were not fast fights.
Swtor, has them also. At level 6 on Hutta there is the Quest “Man with the metal voice” I think it is called. But now people just wait and do it at level 9 or 10. I suppose you could make it sort of a wall, where you can’t progress to the next zone or open the next link in the quest chain without doing the group content. I realize they could just grind to level or higher a guide. Or complain that there is no one at this level to group with anymore.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I really don't know why people call this game a "single player" game and not really harp on on just about every other mmo that has content set up roughly the same way. I played the game for about two months and did tons of group specific content. I no longer play the game however and that is due to their PVP Devs being severly out of touch with reallity. My only gripe with Swtor is "expertise". I still chuckle at their choice of an ironic name they use for their un-needed pvp stat.
I'm sure this has been said at least 50 times before as I haven't read through every page but honestly if you cannot see the glaring difference between how swtor can be viewed as more of a srpg than a game like wow, rift, tera, ect I honestly don't know what to say. The obviously glaring difference swtor MAIN focus was a fully voiced SINGLE player story all those other games this was part of the game but far from the main focus of the game. Yes you have PLENTY of options to group up in swtor and play with others but that doesn't change the fact it was obvious the most time and effort was put into the srpg story aspect. It's fine if that doesn't bother you or you enjoy the game but to deny that this wasn't the main focus of swtor and how you can't see why people say it can feel more like an srpg than most other MMOs is ridiculous imho.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
However, when people have no idea what theya re talking about, when they spread misinformation or just downright lie, when they do not have enough experience with the subject and make bold statements that really don't apply, then there needs to be a discussion to clarify what the issues are.
Amazing how in one part, Bioware is "creating a new kind of MMO"...but when its pointed out that this "new kind of MMO" is not like MMOs...people dont know what they are talking about.
People who dont hold the same ideas as you...never know what they are talking about do they?
Well, reality says most players dont like this new kind of MMO, hence the reason why the game lost so many players. So, sit there with a smile on your face knowing you did your part to stop the flow of information as to WHY it happened just to defend the idiocy of the games creation...one more block in the tomb making sure SWTOR has a very short lifespan. Oh I know I know, there is nothing wrong with the game, people are not leaving, there is nothing to see here....move along, move along...all is well.
Originally posted by FlawSGI Originally posted by Myria Nice effort, OP, if, I'm afraid, wasted. At this point anything and everything about ToR has become a matter of herd mentality, with very little individual thought or consideration involved. I have no doubt most of the people posting could simultaneously complain about ToR being a raid-based gear grind -- which, for better or ill, it is -- and whine about it being a single-player RPG... Without ever seeing the inherent contradiction.
Not a contradiction at all really. We can agree that leveling and endgame are two different enteties right? So yeah SRPG until you hit the raid hampster wheel. Did I fall into your herd mentality because I can see them as different? Did I just have an individual thought or did someone else give me my understandings on what I like and how I view SWTOR. But it is easier to deiscredit peoples negative opinions by stating they are incapable of coming to their own conclusions, especially when they don't mirror yours. How about adding to the discussion?
there is no contradiction there. they spent most of their time developing single player content and then slapped in a few terrible raids that take 2-3 weeks to farm out but only because of lockouts, and a bunch of mediocre instances that can be completely skipped gear-wise and called it an MMO.
its more fun killing 4/5 dots in groups for xp in vaguard than doing any of the group content in swtor. imo.
group content is supposed to be challening, and not because of the ridiculous number of bugs in the raid zones. fixed by now im sure .. too little too late.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
It's not be a single player game, but it's not an MMO either. I played the game for six months before I canceled, mind you I canceled for various reasons.
The only time I see more than 10 people at any given time, would be the lobby station. On a planet it can say 10-20 players are on it, hell after the transfers it was 50-60. But I don't see a single one. Where are they? In one of the dozens of instanced off areas? Or perhaps one of the shards?
Point being is that SWTOR was not designed to be an MMO, not with how the gaming world was handled. It was built as a co-op with the PR goons slapping MMO on it to give an excuse for a monthly fee.
You were lucky enough to have friends to play with, as was I. But in regards with your last paragraph, others aren't so lucky. And the game design doesn't help to facilitate good grouping, MMO players these days NEED a good push. That's what's unfortunate about it all.
You know what's fun about chaos? I do, but I won't tell.
I'm sure this has been said at least 50 times before as I haven't read through every page but honestly if you cannot see the glaring difference between how swtor can be viewed as more of a srpg than a game like wow, rift, tera, ect I honestly don't know what to say. The obviously glaring difference swtor MAIN focus was a fully voiced SINGLE player story all those other games this was part of the game but far from the main focus of the game. Yes you have PLENTY of options to group up in swtor and play with others but that doesn't change the fact it was obvious the most time and effort was put into the srpg story aspect. It's fine if that doesn't bother you or you enjoy the game but to deny that this wasn't the main focus of swtor and how you can't see why people say it can feel more like an srpg than most other MMOs is ridiculous imho.
This also in a nutshell. Add that the world itself felt lifeless and the linear leveling was more noticeable here than any other game I had played before. I personally don't understand how people can view a game as an MMORPG based on the amount of group content alone. Group content isn't the only thing a game needs to feel like a MMORPG in my mind. The game was lacking in all other areas and felt like it had no soul... but that is just my feelign towards it. Everyone has their own but it is not a coincidence that soo many feel this way about SWTOR.
Originally posted by ste2000 What a useless article. We all know that SWTOR technically is a MMORPG, the point is that it is bad designed and people play instinctively the game as Single Player, because the MMO part is not interesting enough, in fact it is pretty boring. So people play the Storylines and once they finish the exciting bit, they are left with the MMO part which people find too boring to play. Don't compare WOW with SWTOR, the first is still a MMO (not the best I admit), the second is a MMO by name but a Single Player game by fact. No amount of wall of text can deny that, since the drop in subscription is a better judging measure than any word.
QFT !!!! Couldnt say better myself.
I don't really know why MikeB went down that road, because the alternative to SWTOR being a good Single Player game is the game being a very bad MMO.
At least SWTOR is a good Single Player game, which is better than nothing, fanboys should be happy with that.
That include the author of this article, who is trying to give this game another lease of life with another useless positive article about this game which is being already judged and rejected by most players.
SWTOR is KOTOR 3 with Dungeons and some of the worst PvP ever implemented in a MMO, that's the sad truth
I challeng MikeB to argue with that.
Maybe he likes this kind of game, power to him.
Personally I prefer to play a MMO, when I feel like I want to play a good story, I play KOTOR, Skyrim or Mass Effect.
Why should I play a monthly fee for that privilege?
The problem is not in which systems a game uses, but HOW it uses them. The problem with SW:TOR for me was that it had more single-player instanced content than any other MMO I've ever played. And that was mainly due to the need to deliver a coherent personal story. And because story was a central pillar of the game, it HAD to take you out of the common game world to deliver that story to YOU. But the side-effect of this is that people remember the story parts of the game more than the general play. They may have only spent 25% of their time ingame in story instances, but that experience is remembered far more clearly than the dozens of hours spent in open world play.
This precisely. I don't disagree with anything Mike said specifically, but he completely missed this one fundamental point: all the single player instancing, the cutscenes and the zone layouts and transport to some extent, give the lasting impression of playing... forever alone... And grouping for simple quests becomes mostly a bother.
That said I play Gw mostly alone and am perfectly happy to, unfortunately for swtor its being a single player game or not is just one of many issues.
It is not the bit ridicilous. The core part of the game, which is the class storyline, are obviously designed to be done solo with little to no point in finding a party to do them. Ergo it is a single player RPG with optional multiplayer component.
I don't know, I understand that social people will be social, but I am a rather anti social person. And not because I choose to be. I want to be more social, I just have a difficult time coming out of my shell, even in anonymous online RPGs. I liked the forced grouping because it helped me come out of my shell. It gave me purpose, where today's games do not. Even if that purpose started out as superficial (hey, we need a healer and this guy is a Cleric), it often turned out that I would meet new people and make new friends. That just doesn't happen today. Nobody really relies on anyone any more. And I understand that it is more convenient that way and better for the majority of players. Hell, I don't like to group all the time. But honestly, it seems like its harder to find groups now than it was back when people were "forced" to group. I liked having to band together with people I wouldn't normally associate with to overcome adversity. I think the soloability hurt gamers like me who really want to be social, but just need a bit of a nudge now and then.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Comments
My feeling is that it isn't a problem at all that SWTOR was designed with soloing in mind. The problem is that it was designed with "single player" in mind. Now you're probably thinking...WTF are you talking about? Those are the same things.
I would disagree.
IMO, there is a big difference between soloing in an MMORPG, and playing single player. A great example of soloing in an MMORPG, is when you are just wandering around doing stuff in GW2. You are ungrouped, so you are solo. But at the same time, you are CONSTANTLY interacting with other players in the world, even if you aren't grouped with them. You are helping them, being helped by them, and being affected by the things they do.
Contrast this with SWTOR where a large portion of the game is played in instances. When you are soloing in an instance...you are playing single player. And even if you're in a group instance, you're basically playing "coop RPG" because you and your group are the only people in the "world" for all intents and purposes.
So my issue with TOR was not that it was heavy on soloing, but that it was heavy on single player,
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Excellent article. I agree with every point. However, I do believe that, because of the story emphasis, grouping was discouraged though not by design. My brother and I started in the Sith area and I was a sorceror and he was a warrior. It was kind of pointless to group because we were following two different story lines. Sure we grouped but it was boring for the person that was not in the story line. Maybe this is why people say that it is a single-player mmo.
I don't really care what you refer to the game as. I just find it boring. The inclusion of a 'personal story' indicates that at least a portion of the game is single player by design.
I didn't mind that actually. I don't really like playing with other people to be honest. I can level much faster and get more done in a shorter amount of time while playing on my own - generally speaking.
Granted, I only played for a month before the bordom sause got to be too much for me - so maybe things change above lvl 30. Dunno. Don't really care either.
What really killed it for me was how insulated I felt while playing. There are 2 factions? Really? REALLY? Well... I don't believe you. So there.
I mean, I never saw another faction while playing. Nope. Not once. I don't believe the other faction's planets exist either. I'm sure I would have gone there to sneak around and try not to get caught if they actually existed.
For that matter, the planets I was on didn't really exist either. I mean, not really. I kept running into invisible walls everywhere I went. That and I couldn't climb hills or jump properly to boot - that was really annoying.
It felt more like I was trapped on a holodeck somewhere ( whatever a holodeck is ;-p ) as opposed to existing on an actual planet.
I did like that I had a companion. It meant that I didn't have to group with people for harder content for the most part
I found the crafting to be 'just ok'. Although I did like that I could send off a companion or two to do it for me while I did an instance and put up with nubs 'needing' loot that wasn't meant for their class.
I don't really care about story and lore and all that junk. I just like pushing the button and getting a shiny. Call me base and id-centric if you must. I don't really care about your opinion anyway. To that end - the fully voiced story etc.. lost it's shine very quickly for me.
I mean, if I want immersive story - then I'll play Dragon Age. There it makes sense to go slow and enjoy the journey. There's no rush to keep up. You're not in a race with anyone.
MMOs aren't about going slow and enjoying the journey. They're about keeping up with the Jones. Everyone else is racking up X-number of maxed out characters, so you'd better grind like crazy so you can brag about your numbers as well. Everyone else is grinding out the best gear in the game, so you'd better do it too or else you'll feel like you've failed somehow.
No, MMOs were never about enjoying the ride. It's the rat race in digital form - every time you add other people into the mix, it's you vs them. Even if they're friends. Either you keep up, or they move on to find people who will.
So I say SWtOR is a 'meh' game. I put my money where my mouth is and I stopped paying / playing. I've been playing the BWE1/2/3 for GW2 - it solves some problems, but has some of it's own unique pitfalls too. We'll see how it goes.
MMO isn't a game that gives you a possibility to play with other people. Almost every game does that. MMO is a game that is a constant interaction with other people, from the moment you log in, and it has a persistant world.
I will admit 2 things I did do alot of group quests levelling in swtor, I tried to do all of them in each zone. I would either ask for or see messages for pugs to do them.
Even the other day I missed the star wars universe as an mmo, the sad fact is there is nothing to go back for in my opinion. Plus with all the huge amounts of lay-offs (hundreds of people over 6 months), I dont see how without those people they are going to be able to crank out top notch content to compete with the upcoming releases and expansions.
I tried my best to like and play swtor but with the lag due to the engine, the lack of cool things to do at 50 and what seems to be a severe disconnect between the players and the developers i.e "sub drops are the fault of casuals" and the mass locking of half decent threads that put simply other games allow to stay. All keeps me away.
It was going to be the game I played for years, I did my bit I purchased the game, I subbed and levelled 2 toons to 50. MMORPGs are a business relationship between consumer and provider, as far as I am concerned they didnt keep their end of the bargain up.
The only ridiculous notion here was the one by the article writer. If you can't figure out that SWTOR was specifically designed to be played single player, then you need to take the blinders off.
This game was hand holding taken to the extreme. The only challenge was a brief pause while you figured out how to play your next alt.
Now the game is really single player because finding someone to group with is a task all by itself.
Attempting to stay the fanboy course with this game is truly laughable at this stage of the game.
The big question is how long will EA continue to fund LA with it's fees. You can bet LA upped them significantly over what SOE payed for SWG. My guess is the servers are all off line within two years. EA does not fund losers long.
Then Rift isnt an MMORPG either, because its designed so you dont have to interact with other people. Want to do an invasion? You dont even have to ask to join the raid for it, you are automatically put in there. Once in the raid it is just a bunch of people soloing, there is no difference between another player and an NPC. Outside of dungeon quests, Rift has almost no group quests and FAR less incentive than SWToR to group while leveling since SWToR has more group quests than any other AAA MMORPG released since EQ2.
And Rift certainly isnt the only one. Most MMORPGs are like this nowadays.
Well, its obvious you are blindly 'hating' and have no grip on reality. SWtoR servers are plenty active. Its because they effectively condensed most of them, but they are certainly active now. Next time try being informed before typing hatred.
My issue with SWTOR as a NON-multiplayer game rises mostly from their actively discouraging group play. (Maybe this has been fixed, maybe not)
Have a friend that also want to play a Jedi to go with your Jedi? Either tell him to stay home, or prepare to do that class instance twice... Come on! What other game actively punishes you for daring to double up on 1 class?
As to Flashpoints, yes they are for groups, yet nothing I have ever seen drop in one couldn't also be got solo. As well, the random nature of the 'winner' of each step of a conversations progress often results in jumbled storylines, at least use a consesus system so that if most players choose the Light ending for instance, the one off Dark player that wins a roll doesn't speak for all.
Yes, SWTOT 'allows' multi-player, but really doesn't favor it, require it, or even encourage it.
I feel bad for you, MikeB.
You wanted SW:TOR to be great more than anyone else on this website.
But you got 'this' game. Thats a real shame.
I don't care if thier is forced grouping or not I personally don't see the point of grouping at lower lvls because it acomplishes nothing. Before the legacy update where they made it so you could ungem purples/un mod. There was 0 reason to run flashpoints except for fun because non of the stuff was woth anything if you just kept going solo which gave you more exp. It didn't have any kind of flyff system where you gained more in a party you were penalized for playing with others. half exp is a good motiv to play alone tell endgame. Then at endgame same ol grind. Now you can't skip th3e convos if you want companion rep farm so you have to wait trew all the cg's. I'm not lazy there just isn't a point to do it. How is somone who never made a guild and always joins other peoples groups a control freak?
The thing about Star Wars is so many people LOVE it and if you screw around and start mixing up the elements people are going to freak out. Look at the rage aimed at George Lucas for the rereleases of the original movies changes/additions and then the new movies too. Some things just shouldnt tampered with and if you dont know and love Star Wars, you probably shouldnt be working on a Star Wars project.
Wow. You created your account in 2006 and waited six years to make your first post? You must really hate this game to come out of lurking for this.
Not a contradiction at all really. We can agree that leveling and endgame are two different enteties right? So yeah SRPG until you hit the raid hampster wheel. Did I fall into your herd mentality because I can see them as different? Did I just have an individual thought or did someone else give me my understandings on what I like and how I view SWTOR. But it is easier to deiscredit peoples negative opinions by stating they are incapable of coming to their own conclusions, especially when they don't mirror yours. How about adding to the discussion?
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I suspect the big driver for comments like “swtor is a single player game with a monthly fee” is the economy. Some people can afford to pay the monthly fee for whatever game they want to play, others can not. If and when the economy improves we may see less of this kind of statement.
WoW used to have elite mobs in the starting zones, now it doesn’t. Remember the elite scorpion in the Orc starting area? Some level 5’s would group to do that quest, most others would just ignore it and possibly come back when they could solo it. That is exactly how most group content is being handled in swtor now a days.
I suspect, the big fault that so many have with the solo’fication of MMOs is the effect on the Trinity. More players build a solo build, this would be a high dps role. The tank or healer roles would be seen or felt as impossible to level solo. The result, less availability of these roles at end game, or players that don’t know their class role in a group.
The Prince of all sandboxes, SWG was a game that you could level to max AFK in three days Pre-CU. But during the last phase of the Village, when it was over run with elite Sith mobs. I heard time and time again, that was the most fun that SWG players had ever had in that game. Elite mobs that required at min three Max leveled players to complete. And still these were not fast fights.
Swtor, has them also. At level 6 on Hutta there is the Quest “Man with the metal voice” I think it is called. But now people just wait and do it at level 9 or 10. I suppose you could make it sort of a wall, where you can’t progress to the next zone or open the next link in the quest chain without doing the group content. I realize they could just grind to level or higher a guide. Or complain that there is no one at this level to group with anymore.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I really don't know why people call this game a "single player" game and not really harp on on just about every other mmo that has content set up roughly the same way. I played the game for about two months and did tons of group specific content. I no longer play the game however and that is due to their PVP Devs being severly out of touch with reallity. My only gripe with Swtor is "expertise". I still chuckle at their choice of an ironic name they use for their un-needed pvp stat.
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I'm sure this has been said at least 50 times before as I haven't read through every page but honestly if you cannot see the glaring difference between how swtor can be viewed as more of a srpg than a game like wow, rift, tera, ect I honestly don't know what to say. The obviously glaring difference swtor MAIN focus was a fully voiced SINGLE player story all those other games this was part of the game but far from the main focus of the game. Yes you have PLENTY of options to group up in swtor and play with others but that doesn't change the fact it was obvious the most time and effort was put into the srpg story aspect. It's fine if that doesn't bother you or you enjoy the game but to deny that this wasn't the main focus of swtor and how you can't see why people say it can feel more like an srpg than most other MMOs is ridiculous imho.
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Amazing how in one part, Bioware is "creating a new kind of MMO"...but when its pointed out that this "new kind of MMO" is not like MMOs...people dont know what they are talking about.
People who dont hold the same ideas as you...never know what they are talking about do they?
Well, reality says most players dont like this new kind of MMO, hence the reason why the game lost so many players. So, sit there with a smile on your face knowing you did your part to stop the flow of information as to WHY it happened just to defend the idiocy of the games creation...one more block in the tomb making sure SWTOR has a very short lifespan. Oh I know I know, there is nothing wrong with the game, people are not leaving, there is nothing to see here....move along, move along...all is well.
there is no contradiction there. they spent most of their time developing single player content and then slapped in a few terrible raids that take 2-3 weeks to farm out but only because of lockouts, and a bunch of mediocre instances that can be completely skipped gear-wise and called it an MMO.
its more fun killing 4/5 dots in groups for xp in vaguard than doing any of the group content in swtor. imo.
group content is supposed to be challening, and not because of the ridiculous number of bugs in the raid zones. fixed by now im sure .. too little too late.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
It's not be a single player game, but it's not an MMO either. I played the game for six months before I canceled, mind you I canceled for various reasons.
The only time I see more than 10 people at any given time, would be the lobby station. On a planet it can say 10-20 players are on it, hell after the transfers it was 50-60. But I don't see a single one. Where are they? In one of the dozens of instanced off areas? Or perhaps one of the shards?
Point being is that SWTOR was not designed to be an MMO, not with how the gaming world was handled. It was built as a co-op with the PR goons slapping MMO on it to give an excuse for a monthly fee.
You were lucky enough to have friends to play with, as was I. But in regards with your last paragraph, others aren't so lucky. And the game design doesn't help to facilitate good grouping, MMO players these days NEED a good push. That's what's unfortunate about it all.
You know what's fun about chaos? I do, but I won't tell.
This also in a nutshell. Add that the world itself felt lifeless and the linear leveling was more noticeable here than any other game I had played before. I personally don't understand how people can view a game as an MMORPG based on the amount of group content alone. Group content isn't the only thing a game needs to feel like a MMORPG in my mind. The game was lacking in all other areas and felt like it had no soul... but that is just my feelign towards it. Everyone has their own but it is not a coincidence that soo many feel this way about SWTOR.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I don't really know why MikeB went down that road, because the alternative to SWTOR being a good Single Player game is the game being a very bad MMO.
At least SWTOR is a good Single Player game, which is better than nothing, fanboys should be happy with that.
That include the author of this article, who is trying to give this game another lease of life with another useless positive article about this game which is being already judged and rejected by most players.
SWTOR is KOTOR 3 with Dungeons and some of the worst PvP ever implemented in a MMO, that's the sad truth
I challeng MikeB to argue with that.
Maybe he likes this kind of game, power to him.
Personally I prefer to play a MMO, when I feel like I want to play a good story, I play KOTOR, Skyrim or Mass Effect.
Why should I play a monthly fee for that privilege?
This precisely. I don't disagree with anything Mike said specifically, but he completely missed this one fundamental point: all the single player instancing, the cutscenes and the zone layouts and transport to some extent, give the lasting impression of playing... forever alone... And grouping for simple quests becomes mostly a bother.That said I play Gw mostly alone and am perfectly happy to, unfortunately for swtor its being a single player game or not is just one of many issues.
It is not the bit ridicilous. The core part of the game, which is the class storyline, are obviously designed to be done solo with little to no point in finding a party to do them. Ergo it is a single player RPG with optional multiplayer component.
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I don't know, I understand that social people will be social, but I am a rather anti social person. And not because I choose to be. I want to be more social, I just have a difficult time coming out of my shell, even in anonymous online RPGs. I liked the forced grouping because it helped me come out of my shell. It gave me purpose, where today's games do not. Even if that purpose started out as superficial (hey, we need a healer and this guy is a Cleric), it often turned out that I would meet new people and make new friends. That just doesn't happen today. Nobody really relies on anyone any more. And I understand that it is more convenient that way and better for the majority of players. Hell, I don't like to group all the time. But honestly, it seems like its harder to find groups now than it was back when people were "forced" to group. I liked having to band together with people I wouldn't normally associate with to overcome adversity. I think the soloability hurt gamers like me who really want to be social, but just need a bit of a nudge now and then.
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