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Stop all this F2P madness...

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  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,952Member Uncommon

    Pricing models will always change to get the best return. The whole point is to make more cash, period.

    F2P today, something else tomorow.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Disdena
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    It is common knowledge that most mmo players don't pay and few whales are subsidizing everyone else. I am more than happy if someone else is willing to pay for my gaming. There are enough fun f2p games that i doubt i will ever sub for a new mmo. F2p is the trend and the way to go.

    Not common enough, apparently, if someone can recite the same old "you'll end up paying way more in F2P than in a sub game!" and incite 8 pages of ranting.

    I guess some are just too in ept to do a proper web search .... or willingly disregard established facts.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon

    Pay to play converted me to free to play.

    I used to be a strong supporter of the sub model until publishers drove me from it.  They weren't happy with my subscription.  They had to sell extra mounts and neat looking cosmetics and expansions as micro-transactions go for the extra cash grab.  I got tired of the double dip and realized that the sub model I experienced with Lineage is dead.

    I have one sub left and that is RIFT and I'm doubtful I'll renew that.  There are plenty of fun F2P games and pretty much nothing out at the moment is even remotely worth a recurring fee to me, let alone a sub + microtransactions.

  • SunscourSunscour Grant, ALPosts: 153Member Uncommon

    I am a cash shop whore.....

    I am the target demographic for F2P.

    I give myself a monthly gaming budget and I buy crap.

    I also subscribe to (One) MMO on a monthly basis.

    I am apparently keeping the entire MMO world afloat with my 25.00 a month. (total)

    Wow, that's alot of responsibility, I'm stressed, I think I'll go buy some vanity armour for my Berserker.

     

     

    Life is Short, Read a Book.

  • BigAndShinyBigAndShiny LondonPosts: 176Member

    The problem with the 'whale' model is that it doesn't work.

     

    To play AOC, LOTRO or Champions without a sub/spending significant money in the cash shop doesn't work.  Your game is less fun.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BigAndShiny

    The problem with the 'whale' model is that it doesn't work.

     

    To play AOC, LOTRO or Champions without a sub/spending significant money in the cash shop doesn't work.  Your game is less fun.

    And yet tens/hundreds of thousands of people are doing just that.

    The fun is individual.  What you mean is that the game is less fun for you.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • khamul787khamul787 Garland, TXPosts: 193Member
    Originally posted by Sunscour

    I am a cash shop whore.....

    I am the target demographic for F2P.

    I give myself a monthly gaming budget and I buy crap.

    I also subscribe to (One) MMO on a monthly basis.

    I am apparently keeping the entire MMO world afloat with my 25.00 a month. (total)

    Wow, that's alot of responsibility, I'm stressed, I think I'll go buy some vanity armour for my Berserker.

     

     

    Oh no, you can't do that! That would ruin the whole genre! You're the devil!

    image

  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Somewhere, NCPosts: 1,582Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zipzap
    Originally posted by metatronic

    For those who can't read.. Don't support free to play, because nothing is free and you will pay more in the long run. You new era of gamers are single handidly destroying mmo's.. Any old school mmo'ers I know for fact would never support this crap.

     

    Btw, I have a great job and could more than afford to pay to win at any game... the point is, whats the point of playing then?

    hopefully cashshop wont lead to pay2win... and NO NOT ALL GAMES WITH CASHSHOPS ARE PAY2WIN

     

    True, but they are all at the very least pay2overcomearbitraryinconveniences.

    <3

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dreamscaper
    Originally posted by zipzap
    Originally posted by metatronic

    For those who can't read.. Don't support free to play, because nothing is free and you will pay more in the long run. You new era of gamers are single handidly destroying mmo's.. Any old school mmo'ers I know for fact would never support this crap.

     

    Btw, I have a great job and could more than afford to pay to win at any game... the point is, whats the point of playing then?

    hopefully cashshop wont lead to pay2win... and NO NOT ALL GAMES WITH CASHSHOPS ARE PAY2WIN

     

    True, but they are all at the very least pay2overcomearbitraryinconveniences.

    Only if you define arbitrary inconvenience as something (whatever that something is) thats in the cs that you are willing to pay for.  Many are just cosmetic.

    Now seeing as how the definitiation of arbritary is... well aribritrary haha you very well could define that.

    I however don't.  And therefore I don't agree that they are all at least pay2overcomearbitraryinconveniences.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by BigAndShiny

    The problem with the 'whale' model is that it doesn't work.

     

    To play AOC, LOTRO or Champions without a sub/spending significant money in the cash shop doesn't work.  Your game is less fun.

    What do you mean it does not work? It is already working.

    "Less fun"? Sure but you are playing it for free ... so that is a good value.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Sunscour

    I am a cash shop whore.....

    I am the target demographic for F2P.

    I give myself a monthly gaming budget and I buy crap.

    I also subscribe to (One) MMO on a monthly basis.

    I am apparently keeping the entire MMO world afloat with my 25.00 a month. (total)

    Wow, that's alot of responsibility, I'm stressed, I think I'll go buy some vanity armour for my Berserker.

     

     

    you really pay for F2P games?

    Personally, i play them for free ... free fun with no commitment is the way to go.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by BigAndShiny

    F2P means developers MAKE GAMES MORE BORING so you PAY to skip the boring things.

    No. It means fun for free. If it is not fun, you don't have to play a single second. Personally i find lots of f2p games fun .. SD gundam, DCUO, DDO ....

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by BigAndShiny

    F2P means developers MAKE GAMES MORE BORING so you PAY to skip the boring things.

    No. It means fun for free. If it is not fun, you don't have to play a single second. Personally i find lots of f2p games fun .. SD gundam, DCUO, DDO ....

     

    I can live with cash shops in F2P that offer adventure packs like in DDO or flluff itmes.

     

    What I can't live with is playing the game and after much effort finally get that item I want then seeing Little Bobby telling his Little friend how his dad bought him this Awesome Sword of a Thousand Truths that is better than the one that guy has (he points at me...)

  • RictisRictis UnknownPosts: 1,231Member Uncommon

    I will stop playing f2p model games as soon as companies give me a reason to play p2p games again.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by BigAndShiny

    F2P means developers MAKE GAMES MORE BORING so you PAY to skip the boring things.

    No. It means fun for free. If it is not fun, you don't have to play a single second. Personally i find lots of f2p games fun .. SD gundam, DCUO, DDO ....

     

    I can live with cash shops in F2P that offer adventure packs like in DDO or flluff itmes.

     

    What I can't live with is playing the game and after much effort finally get that item I want then seeing Little Bobby telling his Little friend how his dad bought him this Awesome Sword of a Thousand Truths that is better than the one that guy has (he points at me...)

    Does it make a difference if bobby earn the cash himself? You know, MOST gamers are adults.

    I think therei s something wrong that people think playing a game to get a sword is "much effort", and care if other does that "much effort" or not. Personally, combat is fun in a game. Otherwise, i won't be playing it.

    But i suppose each of us have our preferences. Personally, a free fun game is a drop from heaven. I like where MMOs are going.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Wakygreek

    I will stop playing f2p model games as soon as companies give me a reason to play p2p games again.

    And i will stop playing p2p games once my annual pass at WOW is up.

  • BartDaCatBartDaCat Renton, WAPosts: 819Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    F2P is the future, because gamers will not accept an increase in monthly subs ever.

     

    So the only way for developers to stay ahead of rising costs is to implement cash shops, and then design their games in such a way that it gives players "incentives" to spend money in the CS. A good F2P design does not REQUIRE you to spend money in the CS, but it makes it very tempting.

     

    It's pure psychology. Many people feel that if they've not played a full month (whatever that means) in a subscription based game, they've "wasted" all or part of their $15 sub. But they'll happily spend $5 on a clothing item, $5 on XP potions and $5 on extra bank slots in a F2P game, AND feel they got value for their money, whether they played much in that month or not.

     

    A monthly sub "forces" you to pay, but a F2P game allows you the "choice" to spend money. In a well-designed F2P game, you supposedly pay for "convenience" only. A well-designed F2P game will subtly build-in all kinds of little inconveniences to "encourage" you to spend money in the CS.

     

    F2P is a myth, of course, and just a clever marketing trick that exploits human psychology by manipulating perceptions. No company on earth can develop, advertise and run an MMO for "free", because their employees don't work for free and the owners (or shareholders) expect a healthy profit.

    An excellent response, given the state of today's game industry and game development gearing more and more toward "people on the go".

     

    Honestly, I'd rather find a game worthy of a subscription fee for the kind of time I invest in my gaming, but I can understand why some people with a shorter attention span and a more disposable attitude would lean more toward trail-based "free to play" models.

  • RictisRictis UnknownPosts: 1,231Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Wakygreek

    I will stop playing f2p model games as soon as companies give me a reason to play p2p games again.

    And i will stop playing p2p games once my annual pass at WOW is up.

     I take it your not going to touch the new expansion? I was going to sub and check it out tbh. I think aside from that maybe GW2 as a B2P only if time opens up.

  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member
    Originally posted by metatronic

    You people need to realise where all this F2P crap is heading... Its heading to a point where it will make the original point of playing games, for the sake of progressing a character in virtual world, never ever matter again if we support these companies churning out this type of pay model.

    I beg you all to think long and hard about how badly the furture of mmo's and gaming in general will be if we end up with a system like xbox uses and you pay for content packs and such... This is a disaster waiting to happen and I urge every single one of you gamers to boy cott any game coming out using the f2p model. You will end up paying more per year to pay to play these games than you ever would just by paying 15/bucks a month... Think about that for a second... That is roughly .50 secnts a day... Are you going to tell me you can't afford to scrounge up .50 cents a day to play a game for hours on end?

    I realise Gw2 is coming out and everyone is saying "oh well, Ill just buy the box and never use the cash shop"... That might be the case where you end up grinding gold and trading for gems or cash shop currency but they will make it so you will be grinding insane amounts of time into these games. farming gold to trade for gems.. Trust me, games will not be games anymore.

    Most of us play games to acquire loot and play through game content to attain the best gear and viritual characters we can with our time... This newly refined pay model will take all the fun out of games, when I can just buy my progress... How pathetic.. paying for progression in a game. Why bother playing? Maybe I'm getting too old (33) and its the new era of stupid taking over. I just don't get how anyone can not see where this will end up for us, the end users of the games..

    I don't know what else to say, and Im certain there is more articulate gamers out there who feel the same way and who also have the foresight to see 5 years down the road when everything is free to play but pay to win...  I'm not supporting guildwars 2 not because of the pay model, but simply because the game is utterly boring. The pay model sealed the deal though as I would have normally bought the box and played for 30 days to see where the game ended up taking me.. but the pay model of pay to win left a sour taste in my mouth. And you can bet your bottom dollar, they will continually add things into that cash shop to milk the end users and after a few months you will be hooked and develop an emotional tie to your guilds and friends, and "oh so and so bought that content pack maybe I should too or I won't be able to play with them.."

    I'm telling you guys right now, this will not end well for gamers.... Don't support this garbage.. play the game all you want but don't spend a dime in those shops..

     

     

    AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It's the MMO apocalypse!!!!  This is what the Mayans predicted!!!

  • everlandeverland EverlandPosts: 71Member

    Of course people will spend more money, that's the point. You think company changes strategy to make you happy? Hell no, it is for profit. If you have p2p game a 15$ a month is all you can expect from a player, if you have f2p game with premium shop, you just sit back and enjoy watching a guy that wastes 2000$ on lottery boxes to get a 400px x 400px graphic of wings on his character.

     

    I work at  a company like that, I have bigger paycheck and I can buy and enjoy more single and multiplayer games on my console that I actually enjoy and spend no additional money on :) I love the masses.

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by BigAndShiny

    F2P means developers MAKE GAMES MORE BORING so you PAY to skip the boring things.

    No. It means fun for free. If it is not fun, you don't have to play a single second. Personally i find lots of f2p games fun .. SD gundam, DCUO, DDO ....

     

    I can live with cash shops in F2P that offer adventure packs like in DDO or flluff itmes.

     

    What I can't live with is playing the game and after much effort finally get that item I want then seeing Little Bobby telling his Little friend how his dad bought him this Awesome Sword of a Thousand Truths that is better than the one that guy has (he points at me...)

    Does it make a difference if bobby earn the cash himself? You know, MOST gamers are adults.

    I think therei s something wrong that people think playing a game to get a sword is "much effort", and care if other does that "much effort" or not. Personally, combat is fun in a game. Otherwise, i won't be playing it.

    But i suppose each of us have our preferences. Personally, a free fun game is a drop from heaven. I like where MMOs are going.

     

    No, I want Little Bobby to defeat the Dragon of Death like I did in order for him to have equal/better gear than me. I guess we could call it e-peen but it's really just a matter of principle.

     

    I place zero value on items people can buy for cash instead of earning them in-game. (personal opinion). If you aren't good enough to get it in-game, then I don't think you deserve it in-game.

     

    I'm sure most players could afford to buy everything in most cash shops...with money they earned themselves, so that point is meaningless.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BartDaCat

    An excellent response, given the state of today's game industry and game development gearing more and more toward "people on the go".

    Honestly, I'd rather find a game worthy of a subscription fee for the kind of time I invest in my gaming, but I can understand why some people with a shorter attention span and a more disposable attitude would lean more toward trail-based "free to play" models.

    It's funny, because there was also a time when I would rather play a game that justified the monthly sub, but I just don't see that happening anymore. I'm not even sure if a game could possibly deliver enough to justify a sub anymore. The climate is too different from when MMOs first came out.

    That said, the reason I actually prefer F2P, is because I feel like subscription based games are actually catering to those with shorter attention spans, and a disposable attitude MORE than F2P games. F2P games are being built around playing at your own pace. Subscription games have become races to get the most out of the money you're forced to spend each month, and thus the race to endgame. I prefer the former.

  • David_LopanDavid_Lopan Madison, WIPosts: 811Member Uncommon

    OP went a little far but has a point, we will see in the future. To me the best game is B2P with no cash shop, with the exception of content for money (XPACS). Cash shops suck, these are video games for christ sake.

  • UOvetUOvet Fort Myers, FLPosts: 514Member
    Originally posted by Aquazen

    OP went a little far but has a point, we will see in the future. To me the best game is B2P with no cash shop, with the exception of content for money (XPACS). Cash shops suck, these are video games for christ sake.

    I think there may be a couple diff ways of doing it.

     

    Box price + F2P + Cash shop

    No box price + sub fee

     

    Either of those work for me, then again I have no issue with the way the Easern side of the world does it and that is by hourly...although that can get annoying.

     

    Cash shops are fine if not selling an advantage. I'd rather pay a sub fee and have xpacs free, seeing as xpacs just divide the community being it FPS or MMO..anything really.

     

    People should encourage F2P cause the only way they make money is if they get you hooked first, then you start buying stuff. So, they kind of have to make a good game because nobody is gonna buy something out of the shop if the game sucks, then again I'm sure I'm wrong on that but you get where I am coming from.

     

    Meanwhile, you pay 60 bucks for a game and it turns out to be shit and you can't return/exchange it. How fair is that?

  • chefdiablochefdiablo Barrie, ONPosts: 202Member

    Just to be sure, the point is do not play f2p because you either can't or do not want to pay any more than $15 dollars a month?

    I have no issue playing some f2p games. There are a few that I enjoy and I spend carefully when and if I do spend. That is my choice as an adult. If for whatever reason I decide I want to spend $400 a month and have the option to do so, that is my right.

    Demanding that everyone else in the world not play a genre of games because you do not approve is futile. It does not matter how much logic or hyperbole you offer.

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