What I see here are a bunch of people afraid of change. People love TES games, and a lot of us want to play in the TES universe with others. I can understand that a lot of you don't like other people running around in your TES experience. If that is the case, this game is probably not for you. Others want to do that. We want to adventure in TES with our friends. We want to make a name for ourselves by fighting real people in combat, not just npcs with poor AI. Us gamers and lovers of the TES deserve that, so let's give Bethesda and Zenimax somewhat of a sliver of a chance.
Can we be a little bit less like chicken littles, please? Can we stop the wailing and gnashing of teeth until we get a little bit more information about the game? If the game turns out to be bad, then it turns out to be bad, but I am seeing way too much speculation bordering on outright ignorance and amateurishness.
Originally posted by Tavros What I see here are a bunch of people afraid of change. People love TES games, and a lot of us want to play in the TES universe with others. I can understand that a lot of you don't like other people running around in your TES experience. If that is the case, this game is probably not for you. Others want to do that. We want to adventure in TES with our friends. We want to make a name for ourselves by fighting real people in combat, not just npcs with poor AI. Us gamers and lovers of the TES deserve that, so let's give Bethesda and Zenimax somewhat of a sliver of a chance.Can we be a little bit less like chicken littles, please? Can we stop the wailing and gnashing of teeth until we get a little bit more information about the game? If the game turns out to be bad, then it turns out to be bad, but I am seeing way too much speculation bordering on outright ignorance and amateurishness.
Once again. I have no issue with allowing Zenimax their shot at releasing the game and further, I will reserve all of my judgments until I have actually played it before drawing any conclusions.
I am just not one of the supporters of "It should be Skyrim Online, because that is what we have been imagining for so long" people.
I have played Skyrim and I enjoy the game. I have that experience set into my mind and love it for what it is. I can return there anytime I choose. I want TESO to be different. I think it needs to be different in order to stand on its own.
For me the sky is not falling. I want the same things as the poster I quoted wants. I want to fight other players and be in that world when I play. I will accept the other players the same way I do in every other MMO I play as being part of the world. In my mind in a literal sense never shall Skyrim and TESO mix. They will be parallels of the same universe to me and I will treat them separately rather than try to assemble them into a complete Elder Scrolls package.
Sucks that in this day and age one has to be borderline nervous if a tried and true video game frachise's next game will be good or not. Co-op Elder Scrolls game ftw.
You mean this particular Games Industry Int'l article? I think the main thing that I took away from the article is that Firor isn't comfortable with giving a lot of information about the game. Much of what he discussed is pretty abstract while a lot of fans are waiting for some more concrete information on the game itself. That is a bit of a concern, but I think that is par for the course at this stage of its development. I believe Firor wants to concentrate on the RPG part of MMORPG, and that is pretty important to me. I'm a big fan of Skyrim, and I think the RPG elements that made the other TES games great is important to the franchise. I like what Firor said about his experience in the game industry, especially on focusing on the core of the game.
My biggest concern is that the game is going to be a generic game with TES as the backdrop. I think a lot of people are burned out on typical MMORPGs, and they don't want to see a generic TES. Rightfully so. Did the article assuage those fears? No.
"But all of those concerns are valid by the community until they actually see it and play it." Ok. Challenge accepted. Bring on the beta.
You mean this particular Games Industry Int'l article? I think the main thing that I took away from the article is that Firor isn't comfortable with giving a lot of information about the game. Much of what he discussed is pretty abstract while a lot of fans are waiting for some more concrete information on the game itself. That is a bit of a concern, but I think that is par for the course at this stage of its development. I believe Firor wants to concentrate on the RPG part of MMORPG, and that is pretty important to me. I'm a big fan of Skyrim, and I think the RPG elements that made the other TES games great is important to the franchise. I like what Firor said about his experience in the game industry, especially on focusing on the core of the game.
My biggest concern is that the game is going to be a generic game with TES as the backdrop. I think a lot of people are burned out on typical MMORPGs, and they don't want to see a generic TES. Rightfully so. Did the article assuage those fears? No.
"But all of those concerns are valid by the community until they actually see it and play it." Ok. Challenge accepted. Bring on the beta.
Abstract? I think you need to look up the Game Informer article.
Been seeing a lot of comments about whether it would be possible or not to port the TES elements into an MMORPG format and then it hit me.... wouldn't UO be a perfect exemple? Of course, no game is perfect and UO doesn't have all the TES elements (and vice-versa), but it sure as hell isn't all that far away. Both UO and TES have several countries, fairly large maps with plenty of opportunities. All the TES serie would need to expend on the MMO format would be to push for Exploration and giving more tools to players, beyond what is currently offered in TES (creating Houses, Ships, etc). Basically a bit like ArcheAge in that regard. Adapt the combat to something between the TES games and Mortal Online (without Starvault's level of bullshit). As an alternative to Dynamic Quests, let players make their own quest with a reward they put forward by themselves (a bit based on STO's Foundry).
There are actually A LOT of possibilities for a TES experience online, I think we already have most of the elements on the market split into various MMORPGs. The only difference is that no one has tried to put them together and see how it works. My guess is it would work very well, just like UO did and how ArcheAge will possible be as well.
In a nutshell :
-UO's freedom. Play how you want, raise the skills you want, build where you want, explore where you want.
-ArcheAge. Much like UO about, but especially true on the exploration part and being able to built where you want. The more intricate crafting system that requires more than 1 player is also quite interesting and would be fitting for a TES MMO.
-DarkFall's pre-release promises. DarkFall used to promise players that they would be able to control NPC Cities as well as decide the politics of the area (Decide whether your Human cities would open it's doors to Orcs and other races, or kill them on sight). There are many races in TES, as well as many countries. This could make some room for very interesting gameplay and stories.
-Politics would inherently take place throughout the world. Wars would break out, alliances be created, and assassins paid.
-Star Trek Online's Foundry. Let players make the quests, and put their rewards. There's no better alternative to to Skyrim's Dynamic Quests system. Let players run wild with it instead.
-Improved Combat. Something between TES and Mortal Online.
Abstract? I think you need to look up the Game Informer article.
What Game Informer article are you talking about? The video interview with Firor? The one on HeroEngine? I gave my opinion on this thread in general and the article in the OP in particular. Tell me specifically what else you want me to discuss and we can talk about it via PM.
The fear is.. Someone would gather 22,000 cheese wheels. Bulk unload them in a town or something, and crash everyone on 5 year old PCs.
I mean there's a lot of fixes for this that even UO implimented 9+ years ago.
True, but for many of this kinf of problems UO and SWG devs (and few other games) have found solutions or at least band aids.
Frequently too late, but still devs making game like that today can LEARN copy their solutions, dont repeat same mistakes, etc from those old games and impose certain limits, solutions to make asshats problems smaller.
They won't eradicate it obviously not, but there are many things in life that never will be completly eradicated.
The fear is.. Someone would gather 22,000 cheese wheels. Bulk unload them in a town or something, and crash everyone on 5 year old PCs.
I mean there's a lot of fixes for this that even UO implimented 9+ years ago.
True, but for many of this kinf of problems UO and SWG devs (and few other games) have found solutions or at least band aids.
Frequently too late, but still devs making game like that today can LEARN copy their solutions, dont repeat same mistakes, etc from those old games and impose certain limits, solutions to make asshats problems smaller.
They won't eradicate it obviously not, but there are many things in life that never will be completly eradicated.
Although I tend to give people more credit to their intelligence then I should I still think its safe to say that only the brain dead fans with nearly no gaming experience at all would assume that when people say 'make the MMO like Skyrim' that they are refering to the ability to pick up anything and carry it everywhere. I think most gamers over 10 and with more than 1 year of gaming experience understand that this (as well as some other) features really will not port well to an MMO enviroment HOWEVER, much of it will port just fine.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
In a really good rpg the cheese wheels would have a weight and at best one person could maybe carry ten of them...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
If you closely analyze the earlier statements made by Matt Firor and some of the other developers you will find an aire of arrogance about it, reminds me much of the arrogance BioWare had pre and post SWTOR launch. Some of the latest comments you can tell it is clear they are aware of the negative feedback, their arrogance has lessened somewhat but it is too late to change the game's major comonents. You're going to start hearing statements that will be the setup for excuses later after this game belly flops.
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
I just cant understand why they couldnt give the elder scrolls fans the game they would want, instead of yet another same old same old online rpg that this genre is plauged with. You dont need a "crystal ball" to know how long this game will last.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
If you closely analyze the earlier statements made by Matt Firor and some of the other developers you will find an aire of arrogance about it, reminds me much of the arrogance BioWare had pre and post SWTOR launch. Some of the latest comments you can tell it is clear they are aware of the negative feedback, their arrogance has lessened somewhat but it is too late to change the game's major comonents. You're going to start hearing statements that will be the setup for excuses later after this game belly flops.
agreed. I mean basically anytime someone says 'we are un-apologetic ' it means they are going on the defensive. They would not have said it if the interviewers had not asked questions which were related to the obvious.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
-DarkFall's pre-release promises. DarkFall used to promise players that they would be able to control NPC Cities as well as decide the politics of the area (Decide whether your Human cities would open it's doors to Orcs and other races, or kill them on sight). There are many races in TES, as well as many countries. This could make some room for very interesting gameplay and stories.
Darkfall never promised this... They said you could build player cities and create laws for them as to who you can let in..and you can.
I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.
If Skyrim was made into an MMO it would fail, you can only wander around a game world aimlessly with no real sense of genuine involvement or personal importance or personalized narrative for so long before you get bored. The weakest point of the Elder Scrolls games is the story aspect. Sure, they tend to be really pretty games to run around and explore all the nooks and crannies for a couple of months but other then that I've found that most people couldn't care less about them after that point, because they've all become pretty bored with it.
Skyrim sold 10 million copies because it was so heavily hyped, it's a singleplayer game, and it was such an insanely long period of time since the last one. It's not all due to it being "amazing" or not. Personally, I enjoyed the game like most people I know did. A month and some of going through it and taking it in, and I've got absolutely 0 desire to play it again.
Over the decades and really starting with the very first 'dungeons and dragons' PC game there has been a misunderstanding of RPG as it relates to story vs framework.
Although traditional RPGs are very story focused the story is not the game, its an INSTANCE of the game activity.
So in other words the RPG world, game rules, mechanics etc is the game board and the 'story' is you playing that game it is not however the game itself. 'The Story' is only one of ton stories that can be possible on that same game board.
This is something that the industry sometimes dosent fully understand and it started with the very first eletronic D&D game which took the approach of a single D&D sitdown instead of providing a framework for people to create their own stories.
radically different approaches
This. A 1000 times this.
It boggles the mind that the TESO don't get this because Bethesda games lives and die on the gameplay and not their story. People put 100s of hours in their games and some don't even get around to the main story line. Heck I personally have 150 hours in Skyrim and have yet finish the dragon storyline.
Also, in general the TES story is just there is a big bad evil guy out to rule the world/kill everyone that you need to stop. Then there is FO3 who's main story is just TERRIBLE.
Game devs need to get that their games need to be fun first and rich in features, then they can add what ever story and quests they want. If gamers just wanted stories we would read books or watch movies.
Story is nice....
But what people really want is a world you get lost in, not a world that revolves around you. That's what makes Oblivion and Skyrim work. NPC's have daily routines. They will do things whether or not you are there, and will continue doing them after you are gone.
And if you like the lore, the world is incredibly rich in lore. Individual storylines come and go. But an overall lore is what makes it strong.
I just cant understand why they couldnt give the elder scrolls fans the game they would want, instead of yet another same old same old online rpg that this genre is plauged with. You dont need a "crystal ball" to know how long this game will last.
I think because they started on this game when it was still popular for WoW esque themepark MMOs to be churned out, they probably thought along the lines of everyone else: Create a game similar to WoW because that is what is successful. It's only recently due to the less than stellar reaction to SWTOR, that they realize too late that they are pretty much screwed if they try to launch the Elder Scrolls MMO in it's current state. However, they have sunken too much money and time into a stale gameplay style and it is too late for them to change it.
*Insert something about Sunk Cost Fallacy or some shtick like that*
-DarkFall's pre-release promises. DarkFall used to promise players that they would be able to control NPC Cities as well as decide the politics of the area (Decide whether your Human cities would open it's doors to Orcs and other races, or kill them on sight). There are many races in TES, as well as many countries. This could make some room for very interesting gameplay and stories.
Darkfall never promised this... They said you could build player cities and create laws for them as to who you can let in..and you can.
They in fact did promise this. It was written on the game's features list on the old version of the website (lot of features were actually entirely removed from the website when they remade the whole website around April of 2009)
What still boggles my mind is if they made as he says a lot of effort to keep lore consistent, why they did not do the same with art? The game looks nothing like Elder Scrolls.
But then again, Elder Scrolls was never a strong selling title on PC platform so it somewhat makes sense not to keep same art appeal. Just I feel a bit disappointed about it
Originally posted by CujoSWAoA I wish this game would get cancelled more than any MMORPG to date.I will NOT be purchasing it. Disgusting that they thought this was acceptable.
Yeah, because games you do not approve or buy are ceased to exist.
People like you make this site mature and intelligent discussion.
Comments
What did you get from the Game Informer article?
a yo ho ho
Once again. I have no issue with allowing Zenimax their shot at releasing the game and further, I will reserve all of my judgments until I have actually played it before drawing any conclusions.
I am just not one of the supporters of "It should be Skyrim Online, because that is what we have been imagining for so long" people.
I have played Skyrim and I enjoy the game. I have that experience set into my mind and love it for what it is. I can return there anytime I choose. I want TESO to be different. I think it needs to be different in order to stand on its own.
For me the sky is not falling. I want the same things as the poster I quoted wants. I want to fight other players and be in that world when I play. I will accept the other players the same way I do in every other MMO I play as being part of the world. In my mind in a literal sense never shall Skyrim and TESO mix. They will be parallels of the same universe to me and I will treat them separately rather than try to assemble them into a complete Elder Scrolls package.
Sucks that in this day and age one has to be borderline nervous if a tried and true video game frachise's next game will be good or not. Co-op Elder Scrolls game ftw.
You mean this particular Games Industry Int'l article? I think the main thing that I took away from the article is that Firor isn't comfortable with giving a lot of information about the game. Much of what he discussed is pretty abstract while a lot of fans are waiting for some more concrete information on the game itself. That is a bit of a concern, but I think that is par for the course at this stage of its development. I believe Firor wants to concentrate on the RPG part of MMORPG, and that is pretty important to me. I'm a big fan of Skyrim, and I think the RPG elements that made the other TES games great is important to the franchise. I like what Firor said about his experience in the game industry, especially on focusing on the core of the game.
My biggest concern is that the game is going to be a generic game with TES as the backdrop. I think a lot of people are burned out on typical MMORPGs, and they don't want to see a generic TES. Rightfully so. Did the article assuage those fears? No.
"But all of those concerns are valid by the community until they actually see it and play it." Ok. Challenge accepted. Bring on the beta.
Current game: Pillars of Eternity
Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2
Tried: WOW, Rift, SWTOR, ESO
Future: Camelot Unchained? Crowfall? Bless?
Abstract? I think you need to look up the Game Informer article.
a yo ho ho
Been seeing a lot of comments about whether it would be possible or not to port the TES elements into an MMORPG format and then it hit me.... wouldn't UO be a perfect exemple? Of course, no game is perfect and UO doesn't have all the TES elements (and vice-versa), but it sure as hell isn't all that far away. Both UO and TES have several countries, fairly large maps with plenty of opportunities. All the TES serie would need to expend on the MMO format would be to push for Exploration and giving more tools to players, beyond what is currently offered in TES (creating Houses, Ships, etc). Basically a bit like ArcheAge in that regard. Adapt the combat to something between the TES games and Mortal Online (without Starvault's level of bullshit). As an alternative to Dynamic Quests, let players make their own quest with a reward they put forward by themselves (a bit based on STO's Foundry).
There are actually A LOT of possibilities for a TES experience online, I think we already have most of the elements on the market split into various MMORPGs. The only difference is that no one has tried to put them together and see how it works. My guess is it would work very well, just like UO did and how ArcheAge will possible be as well.
In a nutshell :
-UO's freedom. Play how you want, raise the skills you want, build where you want, explore where you want.
-ArcheAge. Much like UO about, but especially true on the exploration part and being able to built where you want. The more intricate crafting system that requires more than 1 player is also quite interesting and would be fitting for a TES MMO.
-DarkFall's pre-release promises. DarkFall used to promise players that they would be able to control NPC Cities as well as decide the politics of the area (Decide whether your Human cities would open it's doors to Orcs and other races, or kill them on sight). There are many races in TES, as well as many countries. This could make some room for very interesting gameplay and stories.
-Politics would inherently take place throughout the world. Wars would break out, alliances be created, and assassins paid.
-Star Trek Online's Foundry. Let players make the quests, and put their rewards. There's no better alternative to to Skyrim's Dynamic Quests system. Let players run wild with it instead.
-Improved Combat. Something between TES and Mortal Online.
What Game Informer article are you talking about? The video interview with Firor? The one on HeroEngine? I gave my opinion on this thread in general and the article in the OP in particular. Tell me specifically what else you want me to discuss and we can talk about it via PM.
Current game: Pillars of Eternity
Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2
Tried: WOW, Rift, SWTOR, ESO
Future: Camelot Unchained? Crowfall? Bless?
I wonder if they will tack on a monthly fee for their Online RPG. LOL get your popcorn ready!
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
True, but for many of this kinf of problems UO and SWG devs (and few other games) have found solutions or at least band aids.
Frequently too late, but still devs making game like that today can LEARN copy their solutions, dont repeat same mistakes, etc from those old games and impose certain limits, solutions to make asshats problems smaller.
They won't eradicate it obviously not, but there are many things in life that never will be completly eradicated.
Although I tend to give people more credit to their intelligence then I should I still think its safe to say that only the brain dead fans with nearly no gaming experience at all would assume that when people say 'make the MMO like Skyrim' that they are refering to the ability to pick up anything and carry it everywhere. I think most gamers over 10 and with more than 1 year of gaming experience understand that this (as well as some other) features really will not port well to an MMO enviroment HOWEVER, much of it will port just fine.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
In a really good rpg the cheese wheels would have a weight and at best one person could maybe carry ten of them...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
First SWTOR obvious downfall, now this (even more apparent if I my add). Watching MMOs fail is turning into a full-time hobby :-)
Am I the only one who associates 'online rpg'
as DRM and
'we wanted to make a single player rpg and charge you double (box+sub), but we were too scared to tell it so we market it as online rpg...'
Sounds like a cashgrab to me.
^ Completely Agree.
If you closely analyze the earlier statements made by Matt Firor and some of the other developers you will find an aire of arrogance about it, reminds me much of the arrogance BioWare had pre and post SWTOR launch. Some of the latest comments you can tell it is clear they are aware of the negative feedback, their arrogance has lessened somewhat but it is too late to change the game's major comonents. You're going to start hearing statements that will be the setup for excuses later after this game belly flops.
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
www.albioncentralbank.enjin.com
I just cant understand why they couldnt give the elder scrolls fans the game they would want, instead of yet another same old same old online rpg that this genre is plauged with. You dont need a "crystal ball" to know how long this game will last.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
agreed. I mean basically anytime someone says 'we are un-apologetic ' it means they are going on the defensive. They would not have said it if the interviewers had not asked questions which were related to the obvious.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Darkfall never promised this... They said you could build player cities and create laws for them as to who you can let in..and you can.
You play on consoles don't you?
Story is nice....
But what people really want is a world you get lost in, not a world that revolves around you. That's what makes Oblivion and Skyrim work. NPC's have daily routines. They will do things whether or not you are there, and will continue doing them after you are gone.
And if you like the lore, the world is incredibly rich in lore. Individual storylines come and go. But an overall lore is what makes it strong.
I agree with you 100%
There is an old saying that a poor musican always blames his instrument.
I think because they started on this game when it was still popular for WoW esque themepark MMOs to be churned out, they probably thought along the lines of everyone else: Create a game similar to WoW because that is what is successful. It's only recently due to the less than stellar reaction to SWTOR, that they realize too late that they are pretty much screwed if they try to launch the Elder Scrolls MMO in it's current state. However, they have sunken too much money and time into a stale gameplay style and it is too late for them to change it.
*Insert something about Sunk Cost Fallacy or some shtick like that*
They in fact did promise this. It was written on the game's features list on the old version of the website (lot of features were actually entirely removed from the website when they remade the whole website around April of 2009)
The interview looks fine, not much news tho.
What still boggles my mind is if they made as he says a lot of effort to keep lore consistent, why they did not do the same with art? The game looks nothing like Elder Scrolls.
But then again, Elder Scrolls was never a strong selling title on PC platform so it somewhat makes sense not to keep same art appeal. Just I feel a bit disappointed about it
I wish this game would get cancelled more than any MMORPG to date.
I will NOT be purchasing it. Disgusting that they thought this was acceptable.
Yeah, because games you do not approve or buy are ceased to exist.
People like you make this site mature and intelligent discussion.