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I finally understand the Pay to Win argument

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  • lotapartylotaparty taxila canttPosts: 514Member
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    After spending a good portion of today in WvW I finally understand why people are saying this game is Play-to-win and I am starting to agree with that assertion.

    My experience in WvW was limited money gain vs. high repair costs every time I died which was leaving most of the team naked because they couldn't afford to repair their armour when we were originally matched against a full server and got slaughtered every time we stepped outside the door.

    Later after the matchups changed we were left with a better situtation and got some more people on the server after people were transferring off full servers because they couldn't get into WvW (my server never had a queue for any of the zones).  So we managed to take some castles and I made a bit of money from those captures, but still certainly not enough to buy siege weapons of any kind.  I had about 12silver when I finished, but needed to spend 10s of that on the manual to unlock traits, so a 2s profit from a full day of WvW.

    Anyway, I went off to dinner and when I came back I found a new player had arrived in the zone on our side.  He had bought the commander title (now 100g), and had started laying out siege engines like candy with each battle, including golems which are 1g a piece.  He paid for every keep upgrade at our two main keeps leading up to Stonemist and put up arrow carts, cannons, mortars, and a trebuchet as defensive weapons. on the walls.

    The end result was that although we were heavily outnumbered still vs. the blue server which was another full server we were able to smash through the walls of Stonemist several times and nearly took it.  When we were eventually driven back, the enemy players came into range out of newly fortified keeps and were slaughtered by the dozens and forced to retreat, even though they had larger numbers.  The fight was still going on when I logged off so I'm not sure where it will end.

    The end result was through the actions of one player who was buying gems and changed them into gold (current rate is 50silver per 100gems), my server was able to move into second place and threaten the main keep in the Eternal Battlegrounds.

    Now perhaps by the time people reach 80 we will be earning enough coin that this won't be an issue, but certainly as it stands in the beta at the moment the person willing to spend RL money on gems can make a huge difference to a server.  It's so much easier when every time you are assaulting a keep someone turns up with 2 rams and a ballista or a golem instead of trying to take the door down by hand.

    I hadn't spent much time in WvW in previous beta but seeing this in action today it was a real eye opener. 


    i will take the word of OP very seriously as she is of mature age as well she is elite member here .thirdly she has given very valid arguments .

    image

  • DakirnDakirn Kansas City, MOPosts: 374Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by Dakirn

    In a game that auto-levels you to 80 in WvW and provides EVERYTHING for free fully maxed-out in sPvP how are those potions "pay to win?" People are even down-leveled to match early content so being a higher level than everybody else doesn't really provide any "advantage" and definitely not any sustainable ones.

    I have no issue with people not liking the game. Sheer stupidity or misrepresentation of how the game works? Prepare to be flamed...

    You realize that there is an entire PvE part of the game too, right?  Like.. 79 levels worth?  It's unbalancing there.

     

    Whether you care about PvE or not that is where a majority of people will be making the most money to buy those Siege Weapons if they don't use the Gem exchange.  Someone who makes a vast majority more in money over you will be purchasing things easier and quicker.

     

    Obviously if he was dropping Siege items like candy Blueprints and Supplies weren't an issue.  No, I don't know how to make them but it doesn't negate the fact that gold is used in the process too.

    First point which you haven't answered - HOW IS IT AN ADVANTAGE IN COOPERATIVE PVE??? How is it "unbalancing" like you said? I can craft excellent gear quite easily as I level up with Stats that are equal to or better than drops. I can participate in Dynamic Events and earn all the Karma I need for quality gear. I am not IN ANY WAY dependent on drops in this game for quality gear.

    Second point your last sentence sums things up perfectly - you don't know how the game works but you are proclaiming "PAY TO WIN11!!1!!" Keeps and Depots have limited Supply and while there were enough people to build the Blueprints he initially dropped it is not sustainable. If the other side knows at all what they are doing Supply will be cut off and their own Siege Weapons will be brought to bear.

    If you are going to criticize something based on the mechanics LEARN those mechanics before you do so. 

    Can you tone it down a notch instead of attacking me? Geeze.  You act like I'm some rabit anti-GW2 person trying to destroy the game.  I actually own the game (have since the minutes after it went on sale), plan to play it and made it to 27 before the last wipe.

     

    No, I didn't make Siege weapons in the previous phases.  I barely PvP'd at all I was going from the other information in the thread and what I've read.  I'm sorry that I offended you for not knowing every single detail about WvWvW.

     

    You mentioned crafting and Karma gear.  The crafting that I did was a major time sink, have you tried crafting armor for your own level after level 10?  You'll need to farm for days (possibly weeks) to get the mats just to skill up.

     

    Ok, that's doable.  You'll be able to craft a good item right?  Well.. it'll have good stats, but it won't have those passive magical effects that I was talking about unless you spend even more time and mats experimenting and somehow finding Green/Blue recipes (which I never did).  To fill up stats for that crafted armor you'll want those Gem inserts dropped from crafting nodes (which benefit from +50% magical find pots too, btw).  But that won't solve the problem of getting the recipe to make the item in the first place or finding the mats to make it.

     

    Or you could buy some magic find potions and kill things and find that magical gear in a fraction of the time.

     

    Karma gear vendors don't have the gear that I'm talking about.  They don't sell Blue/Green armor with the good passive effects.  Yes there are some Karma vendors that sell GOOD white quality items but I didn't see any that sold the Green or Blue quality armor with has slots for those Passive effects (I'm not talking STATS, I'm talking EFFECTS).  At least I didn't see any in the first 27 levels of zones I did up to last beta weekend.

     

    Unless you raised your crafting high enough to make Green and Blue quality armor/weapons (which I didn't see as a possibility during the last beta weekends) please tell me how crafted gear is comparible to those magical gear drops?

     

    I want to know.  I want to stop worrying about it because you state that it'll be just as easy to make it as get a drop but in my experience it was nowhere close to the same.

     

    It's unbalancing because you can get more and more varied magical drops by killing stuff than you'll ever be able to make with crafting because of those +50% potions.  The more magical drops, the more you sell on the AH, the more money you make... the more money you have to spend to buy all those crafting mats to level your crafting that other people won't be able to afford.

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Im not playing TSW, but i can tell you now this: TSW will be MMO of the year and not gw2.

    LOL

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • MagnnarotMagnnarot RJPosts: 50Member
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor

    After spending a good portion of today in WvW I finally understand why people are saying this game is Play-to-win and I am starting to agree with that assertion.

    My experience in WvW was limited money gain vs. high repair costs every time I died which was leaving most of the team naked because they couldn't afford to repair their armour when we were originally matched against a full server and got slaughtered every time we stepped outside the door.

    Later after the matchups changed we were left with a better situtation and got some more people on the server after people were transferring off full servers because they couldn't get into WvW (my server never had a queue for any of the zones).  So we managed to take some castles and I made a bit of money from those captures, but still certainly not enough to buy siege weapons of any kind.  I had about 12silver when I finished, but needed to spend 10s of that on the manual to unlock traits, so a 2s profit from a full day of WvW.

    Anyway, I went off to dinner and when I came back I found a new player had arrived in the zone on our side.  He had bought the commander title (now 100g), and had started laying out siege engines like candy with each battle, including golems which are 1g a piece.  He paid for every keep upgrade at our two main keeps leading up to Stonemist and put up arrow carts, cannons, mortars, and a trebuchet as defensive weapons. on the walls.

    The end result was that although we were heavily outnumbered still vs. the blue server which was another full server we were able to smash through the walls of Stonemist several times and nearly took it.  When we were eventually driven back, the enemy players came into range out of newly fortified keeps and were slaughtered by the dozens and forced to retreat, even though they had larger numbers.  The fight was still going on when I logged off so I'm not sure where it will end.

    The end result was through the actions of one player who was buying gems and changed them into gold (current rate is 50silver per 100gems), my server was able to move into second place and threaten the main keep in the Eternal Battlegrounds.

    Now perhaps by the time people reach 80 we will be earning enough coin that this won't be an issue, but certainly as it stands in the beta at the moment the person willing to spend RL money on gems can make a huge difference to a server.  It's so much easier when every time you are assaulting a keep someone turns up with 2 rams and a ballista or a golem instead of trying to take the door down by hand.

    I hadn't spent much time in WvW in previous beta but seeing this in action today it was a real eye opener. 

    I got to lvl 37 last beta, by then I had managed to accumulate several blueprints (specially catapults, flaming rams and ballistae) and still had an extra 3 gold.

    That plus the fact that the wvw dungeon drops blueprints (gave me a golem even) makes it pretty irrelevant to even get the golem blueprint with rmt, unless you think about buying gems and trade for gold during the first week or so, before people hit the cap.

  • DakirnDakirn Kansas City, MOPosts: 374Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by hikaru77 

    Im not playing TSW, but i can tell you now this: TSW will be MMO of the year and not gw2. back to the Pay to win topic, if you take a look at the shop you´ll find ¨50% boost¨ for everything even a ¨50% epic drop boost¨, thats pay to win. 

    It's not "Pay To Win" in a game where I can easily craft level appropriate gear with stats tailored to my build and playstyle equal to or better than anything that drops.

    It's not "Pay To Win" in a game where I can easily acquire enough Karma to pick up gear with great stats from vendors.

    It's not "Pay To Win" in a game where in Structured PvP ALL max level Traits, Skills, and Gear is unlocked and available.

    It's fine for you to hate the game/CS - just don't lie about how the game works.

    His post aside.. it's not "easy" to craft level appropriate gear.  It takes a LOT of time farming mats to skill up and even more time farming to make the materials.  Have you tried crafting armor?  I mentioned this in another post.  Just because you CAN craft doesn't make it "easy."

     

    And the Karma gear isn't as good as the dropped gear later on.. plus the Karma gear is limited because there are only a few select  pieces for sale in each area and may not cover all of your equipment.

     

     

    You only get Max traits/skills for Battlegrounds.  In WvWvW you have to gain XP to unlock Traits, skills and weapon attacks (unless they changed that this build)

  • lathaanlathaan viennaPosts: 475Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by Naevius

    Unless there is some advantage that is only obtainable from RMT (gems) and not from gold, the 'pay to win' argument is still invalid.

    Lawl... how the fanbois will defend there precious. No pay to win is when items are signifacantly easier to obtain or do through the cash shop. This is how  its been since the beginning, you can't twist definitions just to fit your game sorry.

    thats the 'pay' part. you obviously understood that. now explain the 'win' part pls.

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Dakirn
    Can you tone it down a notch instead of attacking me? Geeze.  You act like I'm some rabit anti-GW2 person trying to destroy the game.  I actually own the game (have since the minutes after it went on sale), plan to play it and made it to 27 before the last wipe.

     

    No, I didn't make Siege weapons in the previous phases.  I barely PvP'd at all I was going from the other information in the thread and what I've read.  I'm sorry that I offended you for not knowing every single detail about WvWvW.

     

    You mentioned crafting and Karma gear.  The crafting that I did was a major time sink, have you tried crafting armor for your own level after level 10?  You'll need to farm for days (possibly weeks) to get the mats just to skill up.

     

    Ok, that's doable.  You'll be able to craft a good item right?  Well.. it'll have good stats, but it won't have those passive magical effects that I was talking about unless you spend even more time and mats experimenting and somehow finding Green/Blue recipes (which I never did).  To fill up stats for that crafted armor you'll want those Gem inserts dropped from crafting nodes (which benefit from +50% magical find pots too, btw).  But that won't solve the problem of getting the recipe to make the item in the first place or finding the mats to make it.

     

    Or you could buy some magic find potions and kill things and find that magical gear in a fraction of the time.

     

    Karma gear vendors don't have the gear that I'm talking about.  They don't sell Blue/Green armor with the good passive effects.  Yes there are some Karma vendors that sell GOOD white quality items but I didn't see any that sold the Green or Blue quality armor with has slots for those Passive effects (I'm not talking STATS, I'm talking EFFECTS).  At least I didn't see any in the first 27 levels of zones I did up to last beta weekend.

     

    Unless you raised your crafting high enough to make Green and Blue quality armor/weapons (which I didn't see as a possibility during the last beta weekends) please tell me how crafted gear is comparible to those magical gear drops?

     

    I want to know.  I want to stop worrying about it because you state that it'll be just as easy to make it as get a drop but in my experience it was nowhere close to the same.

     

    It's unbalancing because you can get more and more varied magical drops by killing stuff than you'll ever be able to make with crafting because of those +50% potions.  The more magical drops, the more you sell on the AH, the more money you make... the more money you have to spend to buy all those crafting mats to level your crafting that other people won't be able to afford.

    Sorry there are a fair number of Troll Posters on this forums who operate from an agenda and I hate the deliberate spread of mis-information.

    To help you out - the key to Crafting is in fact the discovery process. It's a pretty simple and logical progression and it gives a LOT of Crafting XP (greatly saving you mats/resources). Learning how it works will save you an incredible amount of time, mats, gold, and effort while Crafting.

    It is true you still need to Gather to get the Augments for the Passives, but I've noticed a *huge* boost in their drop rate this BWE while gathering.

    But one thing I'd still like to point out to you - while Stats are nice on Gear, your Build and the skill with which you play it matter far more than in many other Themepark MMOs. I compared the damage and stats on Level 80 Karma Items to starting weapons and it is actually a very shallow progression. Gear still plays a part - it is not in any way insignificant, but it's also not "all important" like certain other games.

  • MagnnarotMagnnarot RJPosts: 50Member

    GW2 isn't pay to win, its pay for CONVENIENCE.

  • JaggaSpikesJaggaSpikes LabinPosts: 421Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dakirn
    Originally posted by Stx11

    ...

    It's not "Pay To Win" in a game where in Structured PvP ALL max level Traits, Skills, and Gear is unlocked and available.

    ...

    ...

    You only get Max traits/skills for Battlegrounds.  In WvWvW you have to gain XP to unlock Traits, skills and weapon attacks (unless they changed that this build)

    that's what he said. battlegrounds = structured pvp

  • DakirnDakirn Kansas City, MOPosts: 374Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Stx11

    Sorry there are a fair number of Troll Posters on this forums who operate from an agenda and I hate the deliberate spread of mis-information.

    To help you out - the key to Crafting is in fact the discovery process. It's a pretty simple and logical progression and it gives a LOT of Crafting XP (greatly saving you mats/resources). Learning how it works will save you an incredible amount of time, mats, gold, and effort while Crafting.

    It is true you still need to Gather to get the Augments for the Passives, but I've noticed a *huge* boost in their drop rate this BWE while gathering.

    But one thing I'd still like to point out to you - while Stats are nice on Gear, your Build and the skill with which you play it matter far more than in many other Themepark MMOs. I compared the damage and stats on Level 80 Karma Items to starting weapons and it is actually a very shallow progression. Gear still plays a part - it is not in any way insignificant, but it's also not "all important" like certain other games.

    It sounds like they gave crafting discovery more XP which is good.  More drops sounds good too because they were pretty low last time I was out there.

     

    I know that stats aren't supposed to affect things but giving someone +20% out of combat run speed as a Passive on gear is quite a big boost considering the lack of other run speed in the game.

     

    I saw additional stat bonuses including +X% X damage which is pretty big too.

     

    While the stats may not give a lot of bonus those effect sure seemed to.

  • Stx11Stx11 West Hills, CAPosts: 415Member
    Originally posted by Dakirn

    It sounds like they gave crafting discovery more XP which is good.  More drops sounds good too because they were pretty low last time I was out there.

     

    I know that stats aren't supposed to affect things but giving someone +20% out of combat run speed as a Passive on gear is quite a big boost considering the lack of other run speed in the game.

     

    I saw additional stat bonuses including +X% X damage which is pretty big too.

     

    While the stats may not give a lot of bonus those effect sure seemed to.

    There are a fair number of bonuses proceeding down Trait Lines, but since those would just stack with gear it doesn't offset the bonus.

    Still I'm convinced that ANet will provide ways for people to get the Sigils, Runes, and Augments to be competitive from sources other than just drops.

    They've been very committed to that and I don't see any reason why they would go back on it. I expect to see them coming from Mystic Forge recipes (using Skill Points) and likely High Level Karma Vendors out in regions we haven't been to yet.

    I do know that at least the +20% Run Speed bonus has no effect on Structured PvP. Not sure about WvW, but even there it's hard to outrun Arrow Carts :P

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member
    Originally posted by Stx11
     

    I do know that at least the +20% Run Speed bonus has no effect on Structured PvP. Not sure about WvW, but even there it's hard to outrun Arrow Carts :P

    Some ppl think double tapping is a difficult manuver. I'm not one of those people.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by hikaru77 

    Im not playing TSW, but i can tell you now this: TSW will be MMO of the year and not gw2. back to the Pay to win topic, if you take a look at the shop you´ll find ¨50% boost¨ for everything even a ¨50% epic drop boost¨, thats pay to win. 

    It's not "Pay To Win" in a game where I can easily craft level appropriate gear with stats tailored to my build and playstyle equal to or better than anything that drops.

    It's not "Pay To Win" in a game where I can easily acquire enough Karma to pick up gear with great stats from vendors.

    It's not "Pay To Win" in a game where in Structured PvP ALL max level Traits, Skills, and Gear is unlocked and available.

    It's fine for you to hate the game/CS - just don't lie about how the game works.

     

    You forgot to add that TSW will be MMO of the year when purple pigs fly.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • Originally posted by Dalgor

    Firstly you really need to make your post say gold pay to win, cause people are going to think this has to do with RL cash pay to win, which is doesnt.

    If people have progressed further and accumulated more gold in game, naturally they are going to have a ass ton of more resources to draw from then you, its the penalty for joining at a low level, the flip side is you can still pvp, have fun, gain xp, and level in the pvp zones, but you are at a disadvantage, you should have expected it.

    All I hear is an awesome story where a small army was able to hold their own or prevail over a larger army because of better resources, sounds fair to me.

    this is a good post.

    please change the name, time invested = more available, new players can still WvWvW and have fun.

  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Every time someone spends real money to get in game gold, someone else gets gems to improve its game experience.

    That is the difference.

    In other games gold farms contribute nothing to the game community-

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Also people need to understand that it goes like this:

    X Gold + X Supply = X Siege engine.

    That means that if I have 50000000000000 gold but the game only has 1000 supply there is a bottleneck.

    1000 Gold + 1000 Supply = 1000 siege engines

    Enter "P2W real money":

    5000000000000000000000 Gold + 1000 Supply = 1000 engines.

    Nothing changed.

    There is a limiting reagent that is only controlled by the game and player skills.

     

     

     

    Got to bump this one :)

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by just1opinion
    Originally posted by Stx11
    Originally posted by hikaru77 

    Im not playing TSW, but i can tell you now this: TSW will be MMO of the year and not gw2. back to the Pay to win topic, if you take a look at the shop you´ll find ¨50% boost¨ for everything even a ¨50% epic drop boost¨, thats pay to win. 

    It's not "Pay To Win" in a game where I can easily craft level appropriate gear with stats tailored to my build and playstyle equal to or better than anything that drops.

    It's not "Pay To Win" in a game where I can easily acquire enough Karma to pick up gear with great stats from vendors.

    It's not "Pay To Win" in a game where in Structured PvP ALL max level Traits, Skills, and Gear is unlocked and available.

    It's fine for you to hate the game/CS - just don't lie about how the game works.

     

    You forgot to add that TSW will be MMO of the year when purple pigs fly.

    Who gives a f*** which MMO takes MMO OF THE YEAR reward as if it means anything. Eve was nominated MMO of the year many times and i wouldn't even touch it.

    Also back to topic, right now the only fix is to boost the money rewards in PVP at lower levels because a lot of players like me would be playing GW2 for PVP alone. And i certainly don't want people to buy seige and stuff because they can spend more rl money through gems.

    It might not be  a problem at high levels but since you can start pvp at lvl 1 in GW2 it is certainly a problem for low level players.

  • HalandirHalandir nnPosts: 758Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    bla bla blahhh...  ¨Pay to Win¨.  

     

    Seriously... You need to realize that GW2 will neither "kill" nor likely "hurt" your chosen MMO.

    Move along man - You keep reciting from your "Tome of Ignorance (+5 boredom)" and its...

     

    We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
    (repeat ad infinitum)

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,817Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lifeordinary

    Who gives a f*** which MMO takes MMO OF THE YEAR reward as if it means anything. Eve was nominated MMO of the year many times and i wouldn't even touch it.

    Also back to topic, right now the only fix is to boost the money rewards in PVP at lower levels because a lot of players like me would be playing GW2 for PVP alone. And i certainly don't want people to buy seige and stuff because they can spend more rl money through gems.

    It might not be  a problem at high levels but since you can start pvp at lvl 1 in GW2 it is certainly a problem for low level players.

    WvW isn't PvP.

    WvW isn't perfectly balanced.

    It is a PvE/PvP hybrid.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member
    Originally posted by seridan

    Got to bump this one :)

    Why?

    This BWE has shown what having access to almost unlimited gold means. A competent group can steamroll a map in no time.  It's a good thing the matchups are only 24 hours at launch, because there is going to be some serious mismatches.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    And you still need supply for all those weapons and defenses, so go ahead buy all the gold you want.

    image
  • negativf4kknegativf4kk WorthingPosts: 377Member Uncommon

    For me it looks like $20 a month F2p game. 

    kind of sad that GW2 hiding its greed behind F2P model (((

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  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by negativf4kk

    For me it looks like $20 a month F2p game. 

    kind of sad that GW2 hiding its greed behind F2P model (((

     

    And that's it.  Other than the puchase price of the client, GW2's model is that of a F2P game.  It's just as "pay to win" as any other F2P game.  The items in the store are certainly not all cosmetic.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Rohn
    Originally posted by negativf4kk

    For me it looks like $20 a month F2p game. 

    kind of sad that GW2 hiding its greed behind F2P model (((

     

    And that's it.  Other than the puchase price of the client, GW2's model is that of a F2P game.  It's just as "pay to win" as any other F2P game.  The items in the store are certainly not all cosmetic.

    and none give an advantage to a player other than time so it's not pay to win. Unless I can purchase stronger weapons/armor /skills than you could aquire ingame I don't consider that pay to win it's just pay for convienence. Also money they get from this pays to make this a better game so I could care less. I'm loking through the gemstore now and nothing in here would I ever consider a pay to win item.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • lqw6843128lqw6843128 burnaby, BCPosts: 39Member
    Originally posted by Arachneus1

    There are so many things with this and most have been posted

    1. You won't fight the strong servers that do this if your server isn't equally matched.  It will be based on a ladder system so the winners fight the winners, 2nd places fight 2nd places, small servers fight small servers (assuming the dont keep winning).

    2. Lvl 80 everyone will be able to buy siege equipment like no tommorrow, sure gems will cost a lot more gold because of the high amount of gold everyone will have, but so what?  Gold has nothing to do when you need supply to upgrade or build the equipment.

    3. Magic item find potions?  at level 80 all equipment is on an equal power level.  stats may be different but all in all it will be the same +200 percision or +200 power or +200 vitality, those are your choices there won't be an item better than another.

    4.  Really all the cash shop items are for an early headstart.  Would you want your server to dominate early and then be paired with servers that are pvp heavy and full opf strategy/good players that are higher level than your small server?

    +1

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Rohn
    Originally posted by negativf4kk

    For me it looks like $20 a month F2p game. 

    kind of sad that GW2 hiding its greed behind F2P model (((

     

    And that's it.  Other than the puchase price of the client, GW2's model is that of a F2P game.  It's just as "pay to win" as any other F2P game.  The items in the store are certainly not all cosmetic.

    and none give an advantage to a player other than time so it's not pay to win. Unless I can purchase stronger weapons/armor /skills than you could aquire ingame I don't consider that pay to win it's just pay for convienence. Also money they get from this pays to make this a better game so I could care less. I'm loking through the gemstore now and nothing in here would I ever consider a pay to win item.

     

    Did you skip the OP?   A player on their server used gems to buy gold, then used the gold to buy siege upgrades.  

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