My Steam account tells me I've logged 680 hours in Skyrim. Tbh, I'm slightly embarrased to admit that in a public forum, but there it is.
I cannot even remotely imagine how an online TES game could reflect my gameplay experience in Skyrim. As a hunter, how would I ever be able to stalk deer with my bow when there will be dozens of players roaring around the game world on their chargers ? How could I ever have a serious conversation with the jarl in Whiterun while a player named Drag0nBjorn735 is bunnyhopping all over the banquet tables in the great hall ?
If Skyrim was made into an MMO it would fail, you can only wander around a game world aimlessly with no real sense of genuine involvement or personal importance or personalized narrative for so long before you get bored. The weakest point of the Elder Scrolls games is the story aspect. Sure, they tend to be really pretty games to run around and explore all the nooks and crannies for a couple of months but other then that I've found that most people couldn't care less about them after that point, because they've all become pretty bored with it.
Skyrim sold 10 million copies because it was so heavily hyped, it's a singleplayer game, and it was such an insanely long period of time since the last one. It's not all due to it being "amazing" or not. Personally, I enjoyed the game like most people I know did. A month and some of going through it and taking it in, and I've got absolutely 0 desire to play it again.
Er I think the idea would be to fill that amazing world in which you can interact with/do most things, with other players. You wouldn't be wandering around like a lemon.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
My Steam account tells me I've logged 680 hours in Skyrim. Tbh, I'm slightly embarrased to admit that in a public forum, but there it is.
I cannot even remotely imagine how an online TES game could reflect my gameplay experience in Skyrim. As a hunter, how would I ever be able to stalk deer with my bow when there will be dozens of players roaring around the game world on their chargers ? How could I ever have a serious conversation with the jarl in Whiterun while a player named Drag0nBjorn735 is bunnyhopping all over the banquet tables in the great hall ?
Forgeddit.
well rolling on RP server if they will have naming enforcement (yes yes actually some mmorpg's have that kind of servers - codemasters in EU for Lotro had RP servers with name enforcement, NA did not though they took over EU servers and it is still working althrought much worse)
Still I doubt this game will resemble Skyrim or earlier TES.
Not only cause of other players, but cause they will be totally diffrent games. With other players or not.
... they are propably WAY too far in development to either cancel the project or totally redo it and push back release by 2 + years. So they are backpeddaling fast, making some quick changes & fixes, turning on marketting machine and hoping for the best.
This right here.
They will get as much as they can from box sales of people who bought Skyrim.
I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.
And what made Skyrim so awesome is that you, me and everyone was the center of the game, everything was dynamic, there where no other idiots around to ruin the experience.
Now, put an mmo in it and see what happens
What you are doing is putting all the standard MMO's and add them to the skyrim experience.
What we the gamers and fans wants is for the Developer to find a way to make Skyrim an MMO experience.
Its what they are getting paid for, and if you read through the concept forums as well as the general discussion forums, many already proposed their ideas that could make it work.
Its not impossible, we just can't think of it, it doesn't mean that the developers whom have the experience and knowledge won't be able to figure something out.
Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean its impossible, it just mean someone hasn't thought of it yet.
So by saying that you can't make everyone the center and the hero in the TESO you are limiting yourself the ability to make something work.
Besides, many players of Skyrim actually never complete the main story line, they just like to explore and experience what the ES world brings them. Which is what Matt Firor have said will be limited by faction and most areas will not be available for exploration until future expansions.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I agree.....Why should I buy another Elder Scrolls game so recent from the Skyrim launch...Skyrim will last for many years, hell I'm still playing Morrowind...and a montly sub???WTF I'll just enjoy Guild Wars 2 and soon F2P Vanguard Saga of Heroes...TESO reminds me of Crystal Dynamics human game that failed...too much hype and they are hoping that the massive success that Skyrim brought can be taken over to their online game. Here's their plan...
Go big budget charge a montly fee...
make enough money to make investors happy and
cover there costs...then go F2P it's all a big experiment
and I won't be falling for it..I love the Elder Scrolls series
probably my most favorite games of all time...but as loyal fan
to these games and a long time Elder Scrolls player this
just doesn't feel right...I'm one of those players they are hoping
will play their online game....well they are wrong.
Sometimes you have to just sit back and watch the disaster that is to come. I think all of us here are getting pretty good at being armchair devs and can already see how much fail this is gonna be.
Such narrow vision for a beloved franchise. if your going to make the online version of the single player RPG of this, you need to match that so i can steal your chairs and tables and drop them in the street. we have the tech it's 2012 they should make it happen.
Hell if they made it like daggerfall I would be so in that game. I still remember getting bit by a werewolf and when it was full moon wreaking havoc on town guards in god mode. was so much fun.
I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.
And what made Skyrim so awesome is that you, me and everyone was the center of the game, everything was dynamic, there where no other idiots around to ruin the experience.
Now, put an mmo in it and see what happens
What you are doing is putting all the standard MMO's and add them to the skyrim experience.
What we the gamers and fans wants is for the Developer to find a way to make Skyrim an MMO experience.
Its what they are getting paid for, and if you read through the concept forums as well as the general discussion forums, many already proposed their ideas that could make it work.
Its not impossible, we just can't think of it, it doesn't mean that the developers whom have the experience and knowledge won't be able to figure something out.
Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean its impossible, it just mean someone hasn't thought of it yet.
So by saying that you can't make everyone the center and the hero in the TESO you are limiting yourself the ability to make something work.
Besides, many players of Skyrim actually never complete the main story line, they just like to explore and experience what the ES world brings them. Which is what Matt Firor have said will be limited by faction and most areas will not be available for exploration until future expansions.
Skyrim as an MMO would only work if people weren't, you know, people.
I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.
And what made Skyrim so awesome is that you, me and everyone was the center of the game, everything was dynamic, there where no other idiots around to ruin the experience.
Now, put an mmo in it and see what happens
What you are doing is putting all the standard MMO's and add them to the skyrim experience.
What we the gamers and fans wants is for the Developer to find a way to make Skyrim an MMO experience.
Its what they are getting paid for, and if you read through the concept forums as well as the general discussion forums, many already proposed their ideas that could make it work.
Its not impossible, we just can't think of it, it doesn't mean that the developers whom have the experience and knowledge won't be able to figure something out.
Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean its impossible, it just mean someone hasn't thought of it yet.
So by saying that you can't make everyone the center and the hero in the TESO you are limiting yourself the ability to make something work.
Besides, many players of Skyrim actually never complete the main story line, they just like to explore and experience what the ES world brings them. Which is what Matt Firor have said will be limited by faction and most areas will not be available for exploration until future expansions.
Skyrim as an MMO would only work if people weren't, you know, people.
the same arguement can be made for all games. There is nothing specific about Skyrim that would make that a problem more than any other game. Why do people think Skyrim is some kind of different beast then any other game?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Understandable, and I don't disagree with you. If the game does turn out that way, you can bet your ass i'll flame it just as hard as anyone else.
Again, i'm not trying to be a fan-boi, I don't even know if i'll buy the game. I don't even know if i'll enjoy it if I do buy it. But i'm waiting to hate or love untill I have a reasonable amount of evidence of one side or the other.
I am not a hater, I am a lover, I am TES fanboy number 1, big difference.
I love TES games which I play from 1994 (Arena), it is the game which made me fall in love for the RPGs, and still the ones I love the most.
I don't need to play a MMO to understand if it will be a success or a failure (I predicted all the biggest flops, look at my post history), I just need to read about the design to understand the potential of a game, and so far I gathered enough information to confortably say that TESO don't have enough TES elements in it to justify a TES logo on the box.
I am not criticising the design of Zenimax MMO in itself, maybe it is a good MMO, I can see they are trying to make something a bit different from others (not enough though), but I am arguing on the opportunity to name it TES.
If Zenimax don't intend to make a Skyrim or Morrowind Online because it is too hard to implement all the features that make this IP so distinctive and successful, then they should not use the TES name and let someone else develope TES MMO.
Since I love the IP so much, I am trying to avoid an embarrassment to Zenimax and Bethesda.
Would you allow your girfriend to dress as a prostitute at a family meeting?
I wouldn't................get my point?
PS: Do you think that the next single player TES game would have the same success if it would play as linear as Dragon Age for example? I don't think so
TES is about freedom, Dragon Age is linear
So why allow TES Online to play like WOW or SWTOR?
TES Online should be about freedom, WOW is linear
See the parallel?
TES Online has a serious chance to relaunch the MMO industry if it stick with the same elements that made TES so successful in the single player market even though it adopts the completely opposite approach of another leader of the RPG Market like Dragon Age.
TESO should be Skyrim Online (Or Morrowind Online), that's the only way it can be a huge success, any other way, will be a mediocre MMO at best.
I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.
And what made Skyrim so awesome is that you, me and everyone was the center of the game, everything was dynamic, there where no other idiots around to ruin the experience.
Now, put an mmo in it and see what happens
What you are doing is putting all the standard MMO's and add them to the skyrim experience.
What we the gamers and fans wants is for the Developer to find a way to make Skyrim an MMO experience.
Its what they are getting paid for, and if you read through the concept forums as well as the general discussion forums, many already proposed their ideas that could make it work.
Its not impossible, we just can't think of it, it doesn't mean that the developers whom have the experience and knowledge won't be able to figure something out.
Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean its impossible, it just mean someone hasn't thought of it yet.
So by saying that you can't make everyone the center and the hero in the TESO you are limiting yourself the ability to make something work.
Besides, many players of Skyrim actually never complete the main story line, they just like to explore and experience what the ES world brings them. Which is what Matt Firor have said will be limited by faction and most areas will not be available for exploration until future expansions.
Skyrim as an MMO would only work if people weren't, you know, people.
the same arguement can be made for all games. There is nothing specific about Skyrim that would make that a problem more than any other game. Why do people think Skyrim is some kind of different beast then any other game?
The fear is.. Someone would gather 22,000 cheese wheels. Bulk unload them in a town or something, and crash everyone on 5 year old PCs.
I mean there's a lot of fixes for this that even UO implimented 9+ years ago.
I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.
And what made Skyrim so awesome is that you, me and everyone was the center of the game, everything was dynamic, there where no other idiots around to ruin the experience.
Now, put an mmo in it and see what happens
What you are doing is putting all the standard MMO's and add them to the skyrim experience.
What we the gamers and fans wants is for the Developer to find a way to make Skyrim an MMO experience.
Its what they are getting paid for, and if you read through the concept forums as well as the general discussion forums, many already proposed their ideas that could make it work.
Its not impossible, we just can't think of it, it doesn't mean that the developers whom have the experience and knowledge won't be able to figure something out.
Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean its impossible, it just mean someone hasn't thought of it yet.
So by saying that you can't make everyone the center and the hero in the TESO you are limiting yourself the ability to make something work.
Besides, many players of Skyrim actually never complete the main story line, they just like to explore and experience what the ES world brings them. Which is what Matt Firor have said will be limited by faction and most areas will not be available for exploration until future expansions.
Skyrim as an MMO would only work if people weren't, you know, people.
the same arguement can be made for all games. There is nothing specific about Skyrim that would make that a problem more than any other game. Why do people think Skyrim is some kind of different beast then any other game?
The fear is.. Someone would gather 22,000 cheese wheels. Bulk unload them in a town or something, and crash everyone on 5 year old PCs.
I mean there's a lot of fixes for this that even UO implimented 9+ years ago.
TES means alot of different things to every single player, but there are specifics that is the same for every player of the TES games. That is what everyone was hoping for in an TESO .
Personally, I don't need the whole Skyrim Experience in the MMO, I just need to feel like I am playing an TES, the freedom to choose where I go, the freedom to choose who I support, the freedom to explore as far as the eye can see, Climb the mountains and discovering a secret shrine, encountering Vampires hidden in an cave giving a lecture on how to live among the mortals, discovering small encampments of traders suddenly. The freedom of becoming a Magic wielding , ranger thief assassin who sucks at close combat. Or a Heavy armor wearing, Magic wielding knight.
Risk getting a huge bounty by killing a guard and stealing all its gear, joining thief guild, mercenary guild, mage guild, assassin guild because I can. Surviving my encounters with Daedric lords just by accidentially bumping into them. Having a home in many places, feeling rich and powerful without really being rich and powerful.
There are alot of TES mechanics that can be added that gives you that TES feeling, and many that can removed that could prove game breaking. But with everything that has been described and talked about, they are not even close to 1% of the TES feeling.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Again, the community has been clear in saying they do not want a WOW with a TES badge on it.
Also WoW players don't want to play another WoW with a different twist.
So this game is not for the 10 Million Skirym fans, and is not for the 10 Million WoW players............who is it the target audiance then?
Players gave already the thumbs down to your vision, still you keep pretending everything is perfectly fine..........of course like any other developer of the latest failed MMORPGs. Nothing new there.
The more I read about it, the more this game looks like is going to be the biggest car crash of the decade.
qft
if it doesnt play and feel like TES then it's not TES. quit while your are ahead Zenimax.
Just read those quotes...and man...they need to hire someone with some PR talent to do these interviews. Everything Matt Firor says about the game keeps pushing me away. I dislike the man more than going to the dentist, but at least Paul Barnett would try to pump you about a game, not just deflate it.
It's like he is just lowering our expectations because they know at this point the game will flop.
Again, the community has been clear in saying they do not want a WOW with a TES badge on it.
Also WoW players don't want to play another WoW with a different twist.
So this game is not for the 10 Million Skirym fans, and is not for the 10 Million WoW players............who is it the target audiance then?
Players gave already the thumbs down to your vision, still you keep pretending everything is perfectly fine..........of course like any other developer of the latest failed MMORPGs. Nothing new there.
The more I read about it, the more this game looks like is going to be the biggest car crash of the decade.
QFT
the funny part is they wont stop. they are so blinded by greed that they dont care what 95% of the gaming comunity is telling them. they are chasing the profits of a "TES mmo" and they will not stop until they crash and burn. meh, let them burn....we did our part in warning them.
Originally posted by SpottyGekko My Steam account tells me I've logged 680 hours in Skyrim. Tbh, I'm slightly embarrased to admit that in a public forum, but there it is. I cannot even remotely imagine how an online TES game could reflect my gameplay experience in Skyrim. As a hunter, how would I ever be able to stalk deer with my bow when there will be dozens of players roaring around the game world on their chargers ? How could I ever have a serious conversation with the jarl in Whiterun while a player named Drag0nBjorn735 is bunnyhopping all over the banquet tables in the great hall ? Forgeddit.
I am glad that there are others around these parts that understand the vast difference between the MMO and single player worlds.
Skyrim is a great game despite all the bugs. An MMO with the same or similar bugs would be ravaged by the community and verbaly destroyed on forum boards everywhere.
Gold sellers anyone? Trashy language all over the chat channels?
An online version of The Elder Scrolls is going to be very different even if they completely copied Skyrim into an MMO skin, the experience would be unlike everything people imagine.
Skyrim would look aweful with "MOBS" standing around in groups waiting to be killed...and respawn a moment later.
I know that we all have a picture of Skyrim Online in our heads, but we have not really put deep thought into how it will look, feel, and play as an MMO. The world is huge but cities are not. A few hundred people hanging out in the current city structures would look very crowded and diminish the design impact we have experienced.
My favorite line from the SWTOR guild leader gathering, "Dude from the Bro legacy" running around my story is not what I want in my Skyrim, online or not. With TESO I can live with the players named L33kyP33p33 running and bounceing around spamming chat all day and being online clowns. Let them have it, I might play and enjoy it but at least I will not be deluded into thinking that the game is going to be the same as Skyrim except everyone else will be what I think of as normal.
I am glad that there are others around these parts that understand the vast difference between the MMO and single player worlds.
Skyrim is a great game despite all the bugs. An MMO with the same or similar bugs would be ravaged by the community and verbaly destroyed on forum boards everywhere.
Gold sellers anyone? Trashy language all over the chat channels?
An online version of The Elder Scrolls is going to be very different even if they completely copied Skyrim into an MMO skin, the experience would be unlike everything people imagine.
Skyrim would look aweful with "MOBS" standing around in groups waiting to be killed...and respawn a moment later.
I know that we all have a picture of Skyrim Online in our heads, but we have not really put deep thought into how it will look, feel, and play as an MMO. The world is huge but cities are not. A few hundred people hanging out in the current city structures would look very crowded and diminish the design impact we have experienced.
My favorite line from the SWTOR guild leader gathering, "Dude from the Bro legacy" running around my story is not what I want in my Skyrim, online or not. With TESO I can live with the players named L33kyP33p33 running and bounceing around spamming chat all day and being online clowns. Let them have it, I might play and enjoy it but at least I will not be deluded into thinking that the game is going to be the same as Skyrim except everyone else will be what I think of as normal.
i disagree. if you can think it then you can do it. sure, it would be hard to get it just right but it's definately possible. perhaps it would never feel 100 % like Skyrim but i'm fully convinced that its' more the possible to make a great mmo that is scary close to the same feeling of Skyrim (or any of the TES games). for me that would be enough.
personaly i thought MO (all buggs aside) was scary close to that TES feeling. of course MO pretty much became "all bugs inside", but if some cluless underwear modle working with his 5 budies in their basement can get that close there is really no excuse for huge studios with a ton of talent, experience and cash.
however, what Zenimax is doing right now is the cheapest, crappiest, half assed way you could possibly go at it. take WoW and slap on a TES skin/lore. morons.
Originally posted by Jakdstripper Originally posted by chefdiabloI am glad that there are others around these parts that understand the vast difference between the MMO and single player worlds.Skyrim is a great game despite all the bugs. An MMO with the same or similar bugs would be ravaged by the community and verbaly destroyed on forum boards everywhere.Gold sellers anyone? Trashy language all over the chat channels? An online version of The Elder Scrolls is going to be very different even if they completely copied Skyrim into an MMO skin, the experience would be unlike everything people imagine. Skyrim would look aweful with "MOBS" standing around in groups waiting to be killed...and respawn a moment later. I know that we all have a picture of Skyrim Online in our heads, but we have not really put deep thought into how it will look, feel, and play as an MMO. The world is huge but cities are not. A few hundred people hanging out in the current city structures would look very crowded and diminish the design impact we have experienced.My favorite line from the SWTOR guild leader gathering, "Dude from the Bro legacy" running around my story is not what I want in my Skyrim, online or not. With TESO I can live with the players named L33kyP33p33 running and bounceing around spamming chat all day and being online clowns. Let them have it, I might play and enjoy it but at least I will not be deluded into thinking that the game is going to be the same as Skyrim except everyone else will be what I think of as normal.
i disagree. if you can think it then you can do it. sure, it would be hard to get it just right but it's definately possible. perhaps it would never feel 100 % like Skyrim but i'm fully convinced that its' more the possible to make a great mmo that is scary close to feeling of Skyrim (or any of the TES games), for me that would be enough.
howeve, what Zenimax is doing right now is the cheepest, crappiest, half assed way you could possibly go at it. take WoW and slap on a TES skin/lore. morons.
Just to be clear, I am not saying it can't be done. I know it can be done. I just can't take the game I have played as a single player and write over those experiences with an online version and pretend there will be no difference.
It will not be the same at all in any way shape or fashion. TESO pretty much has to be a different game altogether in my opinion anyway just to give them a fair shot at standing alone. The game is already overshadowed by the franchise and few people are forgiving them for it. Skyrim online would be scrutinized so much as an MMO because we have already played it, we will never forget that. Our judgements are already being passed on a game none of us have even played.
Could a better engine have been used as a template? Probably, but that is another story.
Over the decades and really starting with the very first 'dungeons and dragons' PC game there has been a misunderstanding of RPG as it relates to story vs framework.
Although traditional RPGs are very story focused the story is not the game, its an INSTANCE of the game activity.
So in other words the RPG world, game rules, mechanics etc is the game board and the 'story' is you playing that game it is not however the game itself. 'The Story' is only one of ton stories that can be possible on that same game board.
This is something that the industry sometimes dosent fully understand and it started with the very first eletronic D&D game which took the approach of a single D&D sitdown instead of providing a framework for people to create their own stories.
radically different approaches
This. A 1000 times this.
It boggles the mind that the TESO don't get this because Bethesda games lives and die on the gameplay and not their story. People put 100s of hours in their games and some don't even get around to the main story line. Heck I personally have 150 hours in Skyrim and have yet finish the dragon storyline.
Also, in general the TES story is just there is a big bad evil guy out to rule the world/kill everyone that you need to stop. Then there is FO3 who's main story is just TERRIBLE.
Game devs need to get that their games need to be fun first and rich in features, then they can add what ever story and quests they want. If gamers just wanted stories we would read books or watch movies.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Over the decades and really starting with the very first 'dungeons and dragons' PC game there has been a misunderstanding of RPG as it relates to story vs framework.
Although traditional RPGs are very story focused the story is not the game, its an INSTANCE of the game activity.
So in other words the RPG world, game rules, mechanics etc is the game board and the 'story' is you playing that game it is not however the game itself. 'The Story' is only one of ton stories that can be possible on that same game board.
This is something that the industry sometimes dosent fully understand and it started with the very first eletronic D&D game which took the approach of a single D&D sitdown instead of providing a framework for people to create their own stories.
radically different approaches
This. A 1000 times this.
It boggles the mind that the TESO don't get this because Bethesda games lives and die on the gameplay and not their story. People put 100s of hours in their games and some don't even get around to the main story line. Heck I personally have 150 hours in Skyrim and have yet finish the dragon storyline.
Also, in general the TES story is just there is a big bad evil guy out to rule the world/kill everyone that you need to stop. Then there is FO3 who's main story is just TERRIBLE.
Game devs need to get that their games need to be fun first and rich in features, then they can add what ever story and quests they want. If gamers just wanted stories we would read books or watch movies.
I am the same way. I have around 400 hours into Skyrim...I have yet to finish the storyline. It didn't interest me much. The fact I could pretty much do whatever I want, along with being able to create mods that allow me to do even more of what I want is what kept me playing.
The lore in TES is nice and the stories fit the games for sure, but it's was never the centerpiece for me, freedom was. Take freedom away from TES and you have nothing (for me!).
Now....I love story-driven games don't get me wrong. However I still hold the opinion that story-driven games do not make good MMOs (SWTOR, TSW) but are more suited for the single player/co-op experience.
Over the decades and really starting with the very first 'dungeons and dragons' PC game there has been a misunderstanding of RPG as it relates to story vs framework.
Although traditional RPGs are very story focused the story is not the game, its an INSTANCE of the game activity.
So in other words the RPG world, game rules, mechanics etc is the game board and the 'story' is you playing that game it is not however the game itself. 'The Story' is only one of ton stories that can be possible on that same game board.
This is something that the industry sometimes dosent fully understand and it started with the very first eletronic D&D game which took the approach of a single D&D sitdown instead of providing a framework for people to create their own stories.
radically different approaches
This. A 1000 times this.
It boggles the mind that the TESO don't get this because Bethesda games lives and die on the gameplay and not their story. People put 100s of hours in their games and some don't even get around to the main story line. Heck I personally have 150 hours in Skyrim and have yet finish the dragon storyline.
Also, in general the TES story is just there is a big bad evil guy out to rule the world/kill everyone that you need to stop. Then there is FO3 who's main story is just TERRIBLE.
Game devs need to get that their games need to be fun first and rich in features, then they can add what ever story and quests they want. If gamers just wanted stories we would read books or watch movies.
I am the same way. I have around 400 hours into Skyrim...I have yet to finish the storyline. It didn't interest me much. The fact I could pretty much do whatever I want, along with being able to create mods that allow me to do even more of what I want is what kept me playing.
The lore in TES is nice and the stories fit the games for sure, but it's was never the centerpiece for me, freedom was. Take freedom away from TES and you have nothing (for me!).
Now....I love story-driven games don't get me wrong. However I still hold the opinion that story-driven games do not make good MMOs (SWTOR, TSW) but are more suited for the single player/co-op experience.
Its quite strange really, In skyrim if you ask the players, many actually spent hours and hours just doing everything other than the main quest. Personally I am 500+ hours in and haven't finished the main quest line. But thats what is so special about skrim as well as Morrowind, all the TES games have a short main quest, but the world is huge.
Unfortunately TESO is on the path to becoming another normal MMORPG where being level cap is the goal and waiting for End game contents.
In every single TES that I have played, being level cap was never really my goal, it just happen to be something that happenes before I even try the main quest, because I decided to go west instead of East to my main quest line. Or decided to stay at a city just pick pocketing and breaking into houses just to train my thief skills.
When they were brainstorming about developing TESO, they should have focused mainly on getting this experience into an MMO, instead of the whole making WOW like MMO in TES world.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Just read those quotes...and man...they need to hire someone with some PR talent to do these interviews. Everything Matt Firor says about the game keeps pushing me away. I dislike the man more than going to the dentist, but at least Paul Barnett would try to pump you about a game, not just deflate it.
It's like he is just lowering our expectations because they know at this point the game will flop.
So you would prefer the company hire somebody to sugar-coat the truth for you because just too hard to swallow that pill? I would rather hear the truth, even from somebody I'm not necessarily friendly with. Keep the PR machine at gamer-level as much as possible. Even then, these statements are so vague, we're all here hypothesizing.
Originally posted by SpottyGekko My Steam account tells me I've logged 680 hours in Skyrim. Tbh, I'm slightly embarrased to admit that in a public forum, but there it is.
I cannot even remotely imagine how an online TES game could reflect my gameplay experience in Skyrim. As a hunter, how would I ever be able to stalk deer with my bow when there will be dozens of players roaring around the game world on their chargers ? How could I ever have a serious conversation with the jarl in Whiterun while a player named Drag0nBjorn735 is bunnyhopping all over the banquet tables in the great hall ?
Forgeddit.
I am glad that there are others around these parts that understand the vast difference between the MMO and single player worlds.
Skyrim is a great game despite all the bugs. An MMO with the same or similar bugs would be ravaged by the community and verbaly destroyed on forum boards everywhere.
Gold sellers anyone? Trashy language all over the chat channels?
An online version of The Elder Scrolls is going to be very different even if they completely copied Skyrim into an MMO skin, the experience would be unlike everything people imagine.
Skyrim would look aweful with "MOBS" standing around in groups waiting to be killed...and respawn a moment later.
I know that we all have a picture of Skyrim Online in our heads, but we have not really put deep thought into how it will look, feel, and play as an MMO. The world is huge but cities are not. A few hundred people hanging out in the current city structures would look very crowded and diminish the design impact we have experienced.
My favorite line from the SWTOR guild leader gathering, "Dude from the Bro legacy" running around my story is not what I want in my Skyrim, online or not. With TESO I can live with the players named L33kyP33p33 running and bounceing around spamming chat all day and being online clowns. Let them have it, I might play and enjoy it but at least I will not be deluded into thinking that the game is going to be the same as Skyrim except everyone else will be what I think of as normal.
I agree. The overall sentiment from Skyrim fans seems to be fear of pulling back the blanket of immersion, which is ineveitable once you drop 2,500 other people into your game.
Though we don't really know how the mechanics work at this point, we can assume the goal is to either spread those people out as much as possible using traditional mmo mechanics (instances, channels, servers, etc), or possibly allow the creation of smaller games in which you can play with a handful of friends (something of a co-op, perhaps D3 could be a good exmple here).
Being the game is asking for a sub, I am more inclined to believe the first possibility. Although, historically speaking, I think most TES fans would be quite content with LAN or multi-player co-op options. It's not like Bethesda hasn't heard this from fans for the past ten years. In fact, we were told, during the making of Skyrim, that there will be no multiplayer because it "wouldn't work" with their vision. Even though the TES series has a fantasticly large fanbase, the love for the series exists despite the developers, not because of it.
Given the past history and reluctance to form any sort of multiplayer component to TES, my inclination is that this "online RPG" is very much experimental (good or bad) and will lead to an extremely watered-down SRPG experience. We have nothing else, at least from Bethesda, to base our opinions on. If at least a baby-step had been made in the past to offer SOME kind of multiplayer in a TES game, I might actually be excited for this game.
What I see here are a bunch of people afraid of change. People love TES games, and a lot of us want to play in the TES universe with others. I can understand that a lot of you don't like other people running around in your TES experience. If that is the case, this game is probably not for you. Others want to do that. We want to adventure in TES with our friends. We want to make a name for ourselves by fighting real people in combat, not just npcs with poor AI. Us gamers and lovers of the TES deserve that, so let's give Bethesda and Zenimax somewhat of a sliver of a chance.
Can we be a little bit less like chicken littles, please? Can we stop the wailing and gnashing of teeth until we get a little bit more information about the game? If the game turns out to be bad, then it turns out to be bad, but I am seeing way too much speculation bordering on outright ignorance and amateurishness.
Comments
My Steam account tells me I've logged 680 hours in Skyrim. Tbh, I'm slightly embarrased to admit that in a public forum, but there it is.
I cannot even remotely imagine how an online TES game could reflect my gameplay experience in Skyrim. As a hunter, how would I ever be able to stalk deer with my bow when there will be dozens of players roaring around the game world on their chargers ? How could I ever have a serious conversation with the jarl in Whiterun while a player named Drag0nBjorn735 is bunnyhopping all over the banquet tables in the great hall ?
Forgeddit.
Er I think the idea would be to fill that amazing world in which you can interact with/do most things, with other players. You wouldn't be wandering around like a lemon.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
well rolling on RP server if they will have naming enforcement (yes yes actually some mmorpg's have that kind of servers - codemasters in EU for Lotro had RP servers with name enforcement, NA did not though they took over EU servers and it is still working althrought much worse)
Still I doubt this game will resemble Skyrim or earlier TES.
Not only cause of other players, but cause they will be totally diffrent games. With other players or not.
This right here.
They will get as much as they can from box sales of people who bought Skyrim.
What you are doing is putting all the standard MMO's and add them to the skyrim experience.
What we the gamers and fans wants is for the Developer to find a way to make Skyrim an MMO experience.
Its what they are getting paid for, and if you read through the concept forums as well as the general discussion forums, many already proposed their ideas that could make it work.
Its not impossible, we just can't think of it, it doesn't mean that the developers whom have the experience and knowledge won't be able to figure something out.
Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean its impossible, it just mean someone hasn't thought of it yet.
So by saying that you can't make everyone the center and the hero in the TESO you are limiting yourself the ability to make something work.
Besides, many players of Skyrim actually never complete the main story line, they just like to explore and experience what the ES world brings them. Which is what Matt Firor have said will be limited by faction and most areas will not be available for exploration until future expansions.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
OMG I love this image!
I agree.....Why should I buy another Elder Scrolls game so recent from the Skyrim launch...Skyrim will last for many years, hell I'm still playing Morrowind...and a montly sub???WTF I'll just enjoy Guild Wars 2 and soon F2P Vanguard Saga of Heroes...TESO reminds me of Crystal Dynamics human game that failed...too much hype and they are hoping that the massive success that Skyrim brought can be taken over to their online game. Here's their plan...
Go big budget charge a montly fee...
make enough money to make investors happy and
cover there costs...then go F2P it's all a big experiment
and I won't be falling for it..I love the Elder Scrolls series
probably my most favorite games of all time...but as loyal fan
to these games and a long time Elder Scrolls player this
just doesn't feel right...I'm one of those players they are hoping
will play their online game....well they are wrong.
Sometimes you have to just sit back and watch the disaster that is to come. I think all of us here are getting pretty good at being armchair devs and can already see how much fail this is gonna be.
Such narrow vision for a beloved franchise. if your going to make the online version of the single player RPG of this, you need to match that so i can steal your chairs and tables and drop them in the street. we have the tech it's 2012 they should make it happen.
Hell if they made it like daggerfall I would be so in that game. I still remember getting bit by a werewolf and when it was full moon wreaking havoc on town guards in god mode. was so much fun.
Skyrim as an MMO would only work if people weren't, you know, people.
the same arguement can be made for all games. There is nothing specific about Skyrim that would make that a problem more than any other game. Why do people think Skyrim is some kind of different beast then any other game?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I am not a hater, I am a lover, I am TES fanboy number 1, big difference.
I love TES games which I play from 1994 (Arena), it is the game which made me fall in love for the RPGs, and still the ones I love the most.
I don't need to play a MMO to understand if it will be a success or a failure (I predicted all the biggest flops, look at my post history), I just need to read about the design to understand the potential of a game, and so far I gathered enough information to confortably say that TESO don't have enough TES elements in it to justify a TES logo on the box.
I am not criticising the design of Zenimax MMO in itself, maybe it is a good MMO, I can see they are trying to make something a bit different from others (not enough though), but I am arguing on the opportunity to name it TES.
If Zenimax don't intend to make a Skyrim or Morrowind Online because it is too hard to implement all the features that make this IP so distinctive and successful, then they should not use the TES name and let someone else develope TES MMO.
Since I love the IP so much, I am trying to avoid an embarrassment to Zenimax and Bethesda.
Would you allow your girfriend to dress as a prostitute at a family meeting?
I wouldn't................get my point?
PS: Do you think that the next single player TES game would have the same success if it would play as linear as Dragon Age for example? I don't think so
TES is about freedom, Dragon Age is linear
So why allow TES Online to play like WOW or SWTOR?
TES Online should be about freedom, WOW is linear
See the parallel?
TES Online has a serious chance to relaunch the MMO industry if it stick with the same elements that made TES so successful in the single player market even though it adopts the completely opposite approach of another leader of the RPG Market like Dragon Age.
TESO should be Skyrim Online (Or Morrowind Online), that's the only way it can be a huge success, any other way, will be a mediocre MMO at best.
That's my point.
The fear is.. Someone would gather 22,000 cheese wheels. Bulk unload them in a town or something, and crash everyone on 5 year old PCs.
I mean there's a lot of fixes for this that even UO implimented 9+ years ago.
a yo ho ho
TES means alot of different things to every single player, but there are specifics that is the same for every player of the TES games. That is what everyone was hoping for in an TESO .
Personally, I don't need the whole Skyrim Experience in the MMO, I just need to feel like I am playing an TES, the freedom to choose where I go, the freedom to choose who I support, the freedom to explore as far as the eye can see, Climb the mountains and discovering a secret shrine, encountering Vampires hidden in an cave giving a lecture on how to live among the mortals, discovering small encampments of traders suddenly. The freedom of becoming a Magic wielding , ranger thief assassin who sucks at close combat. Or a Heavy armor wearing, Magic wielding knight.
Risk getting a huge bounty by killing a guard and stealing all its gear, joining thief guild, mercenary guild, mage guild, assassin guild because I can. Surviving my encounters with Daedric lords just by accidentially bumping into them. Having a home in many places, feeling rich and powerful without really being rich and powerful.
There are alot of TES mechanics that can be added that gives you that TES feeling, and many that can removed that could prove game breaking. But with everything that has been described and talked about, they are not even close to 1% of the TES feeling.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
qft
if it doesnt play and feel like TES then it's not TES. quit while your are ahead Zenimax.
Just read those quotes...and man...they need to hire someone with some PR talent to do these interviews. Everything Matt Firor says about the game keeps pushing me away. I dislike the man more than going to the dentist, but at least Paul Barnett would try to pump you about a game, not just deflate it.
It's like he is just lowering our expectations because they know at this point the game will flop.
QFT
the funny part is they wont stop. they are so blinded by greed that they dont care what 95% of the gaming comunity is telling them. they are chasing the profits of a "TES mmo" and they will not stop until they crash and burn. meh, let them burn....we did our part in warning them.
I am glad that there are others around these parts that understand the vast difference between the MMO and single player worlds.
Skyrim is a great game despite all the bugs. An MMO with the same or similar bugs would be ravaged by the community and verbaly destroyed on forum boards everywhere.
Gold sellers anyone? Trashy language all over the chat channels?
An online version of The Elder Scrolls is going to be very different even if they completely copied Skyrim into an MMO skin, the experience would be unlike everything people imagine.
Skyrim would look aweful with "MOBS" standing around in groups waiting to be killed...and respawn a moment later.
I know that we all have a picture of Skyrim Online in our heads, but we have not really put deep thought into how it will look, feel, and play as an MMO. The world is huge but cities are not. A few hundred people hanging out in the current city structures would look very crowded and diminish the design impact we have experienced.
My favorite line from the SWTOR guild leader gathering, "Dude from the Bro legacy" running around my story is not what I want in my Skyrim, online or not. With TESO I can live with the players named L33kyP33p33 running and bounceing around spamming chat all day and being online clowns. Let them have it, I might play and enjoy it but at least I will not be deluded into thinking that the game is going to be the same as Skyrim except everyone else will be what I think of as normal.
i disagree. if you can think it then you can do it. sure, it would be hard to get it just right but it's definately possible. perhaps it would never feel 100 % like Skyrim but i'm fully convinced that its' more the possible to make a great mmo that is scary close to the same feeling of Skyrim (or any of the TES games). for me that would be enough.
personaly i thought MO (all buggs aside) was scary close to that TES feeling. of course MO pretty much became "all bugs inside", but if some cluless underwear modle working with his 5 budies in their basement can get that close there is really no excuse for huge studios with a ton of talent, experience and cash.
however, what Zenimax is doing right now is the cheapest, crappiest, half assed way you could possibly go at it. take WoW and slap on a TES skin/lore. morons.
howeve, what Zenimax is doing right now is the cheepest, crappiest, half assed way you could possibly go at it. take WoW and slap on a TES skin/lore. morons.
Just to be clear, I am not saying it can't be done. I know it can be done. I just can't take the game I have played as a single player and write over those experiences with an online version and pretend there will be no difference.
It will not be the same at all in any way shape or fashion. TESO pretty much has to be a different game altogether in my opinion anyway just to give them a fair shot at standing alone. The game is already overshadowed by the franchise and few people are forgiving them for it. Skyrim online would be scrutinized so much as an MMO because we have already played it, we will never forget that. Our judgements are already being passed on a game none of us have even played.
Could a better engine have been used as a template? Probably, but that is another story.
This. A 1000 times this.
It boggles the mind that the TESO don't get this because Bethesda games lives and die on the gameplay and not their story. People put 100s of hours in their games and some don't even get around to the main story line. Heck I personally have 150 hours in Skyrim and have yet finish the dragon storyline.
Also, in general the TES story is just there is a big bad evil guy out to rule the world/kill everyone that you need to stop. Then there is FO3 who's main story is just TERRIBLE.
Game devs need to get that their games need to be fun first and rich in features, then they can add what ever story and quests they want. If gamers just wanted stories we would read books or watch movies.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I am the same way. I have around 400 hours into Skyrim...I have yet to finish the storyline. It didn't interest me much. The fact I could pretty much do whatever I want, along with being able to create mods that allow me to do even more of what I want is what kept me playing.
The lore in TES is nice and the stories fit the games for sure, but it's was never the centerpiece for me, freedom was. Take freedom away from TES and you have nothing (for me!).
Now....I love story-driven games don't get me wrong. However I still hold the opinion that story-driven games do not make good MMOs (SWTOR, TSW) but are more suited for the single player/co-op experience.
Its quite strange really, In skyrim if you ask the players, many actually spent hours and hours just doing everything other than the main quest. Personally I am 500+ hours in and haven't finished the main quest line. But thats what is so special about skrim as well as Morrowind, all the TES games have a short main quest, but the world is huge.
Unfortunately TESO is on the path to becoming another normal MMORPG where being level cap is the goal and waiting for End game contents.
In every single TES that I have played, being level cap was never really my goal, it just happen to be something that happenes before I even try the main quest, because I decided to go west instead of East to my main quest line. Or decided to stay at a city just pick pocketing and breaking into houses just to train my thief skills.
When they were brainstorming about developing TESO, they should have focused mainly on getting this experience into an MMO, instead of the whole making WOW like MMO in TES world.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
So you would prefer the company hire somebody to sugar-coat the truth for you because just too hard to swallow that pill? I would rather hear the truth, even from somebody I'm not necessarily friendly with. Keep the PR machine at gamer-level as much as possible. Even then, these statements are so vague, we're all here hypothesizing.
I agree. The overall sentiment from Skyrim fans seems to be fear of pulling back the blanket of immersion, which is ineveitable once you drop 2,500 other people into your game.
Though we don't really know how the mechanics work at this point, we can assume the goal is to either spread those people out as much as possible using traditional mmo mechanics (instances, channels, servers, etc), or possibly allow the creation of smaller games in which you can play with a handful of friends (something of a co-op, perhaps D3 could be a good exmple here).
Being the game is asking for a sub, I am more inclined to believe the first possibility. Although, historically speaking, I think most TES fans would be quite content with LAN or multi-player co-op options. It's not like Bethesda hasn't heard this from fans for the past ten years. In fact, we were told, during the making of Skyrim, that there will be no multiplayer because it "wouldn't work" with their vision. Even though the TES series has a fantasticly large fanbase, the love for the series exists despite the developers, not because of it.
Given the past history and reluctance to form any sort of multiplayer component to TES, my inclination is that this "online RPG" is very much experimental (good or bad) and will lead to an extremely watered-down SRPG experience. We have nothing else, at least from Bethesda, to base our opinions on. If at least a baby-step had been made in the past to offer SOME kind of multiplayer in a TES game, I might actually be excited for this game.
What I see here are a bunch of people afraid of change. People love TES games, and a lot of us want to play in the TES universe with others. I can understand that a lot of you don't like other people running around in your TES experience. If that is the case, this game is probably not for you. Others want to do that. We want to adventure in TES with our friends. We want to make a name for ourselves by fighting real people in combat, not just npcs with poor AI. Us gamers and lovers of the TES deserve that, so let's give Bethesda and Zenimax somewhat of a sliver of a chance.
Can we be a little bit less like chicken littles, please? Can we stop the wailing and gnashing of teeth until we get a little bit more information about the game? If the game turns out to be bad, then it turns out to be bad, but I am seeing way too much speculation bordering on outright ignorance and amateurishness.
Current game: Pillars of Eternity
Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2
Tried: WOW, Rift, SWTOR, ESO
Future: Camelot Unchained? Crowfall? Bless?