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Is it possible to catch up to the veterans?

DowieDowie OckelboPosts: 280Member

I'm really thinking about giving EvE-online a try, i have given the game several tries and really liked it. But there is one thing that have always bothered me with the skill-system, it seems like it's impossibe to catch up the older players in eve.  I really want to go bounty-hunter, but i just can't see it happening.

 

Is this true? Won't i ever be able to really challenge someone one on one in PvP or to contribute in some kind of fleet-fight?

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Comments

  • BigCountryBigCountry Charlotte, NCPosts: 478Member

    You can have a T2 Rifter pilot up and running in 16 days. That's your best bet.

     

    Find a large PvP corp/alliance and join that. You will get plenty of action tackling in your Rifter. Can get into PvP and help almost immediately. Plus when you die ship is cheap and easy to replace.

    :D

    BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com

  • BigCountryBigCountry Charlotte, NCPosts: 478Member

    Character Creation:

    Minmatar/Brutor/Slave Child


    • Science III (for set of Basic implants)
    • Cybergenics I (for set of Basic implants)
    • Minmatar Frigate III
    • Hull Upgrades IV
    • Propulsion Jamming I
    • Afterburner I
    • Small Projectile Turrent V
    • Gunnery II
    • Motion Prediction III
    • Small Autocannon Specialization I
    • Energy Emission Systems I
    • Jury Rigging III
    • Projectile Weapons Rigging I
    • Engineering V
    • Electronics IV
    • Weapons Upgrades III
    • Repair Systems III
    • Mechanic III


    To train those from scratch it will take you 15+- days.


    This will put you in a Rifter (frigate) that you can PvP with.

    BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com

  • BigCountryBigCountry Charlotte, NCPosts: 478Member

    Fit your Rifter ship with this (it's a good general purpose fitting),


    Damage Control II
    Small Armor Repairer II
    200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

    Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
    J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
    X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator

    150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
    150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
    150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S
    E5 Prototype Energy Vampire

    Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
    Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
    Small Projectile Ambit Extension I

    BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com

  • nerrollusnerrollus Guthrie, OKPosts: 214Member


    Originally posted by Dowie
    I'm really thinking about giving EvE-online a try, i have given the game several tries and really liked it. But there is one thing that have always bothered me with the skill-system, it seems like it's impossibe to catch up the older players in eve.  I really want to go bounty-hunter, but i just can't see it happening. Is this true? Won't i ever be able to really challenge someone one on one in PvP or to contribute in some kind of fleet-fight?

    You'll never "catch up" since the skills are learned in real time whether your online or not.

    That said, it doesn't really matter for the most part. You can get a good pvp capable character up in a month or two and go from there. If you don't want to do pvp, then it really doesn't matter at that point.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    I guess if you play long enough you will catch up to those maxed out vets...

     

    but thats exactly how it should be.. as stated above you can get pvp viable pretty fast if you want..

  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Nowhere, TXPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon

    Strictly speaking, yes, it is impossible to catch up to veterans unless they decide to take an extended break from the game.

    But keep in mind that you cannot make use of all the skills all the time. I can learn how to fly different types of ships but I can only fly one at a time. I can learn how to fly a mining ship but  I don't use those skills while in a cruiser. You can learn enough to fly a tackler fitted ship in a full on "end game" PvP fleet battle in about 2 weeks. It really doesn't take long to become useful.

    So don't worry about being behind in the game. Give it a try. Don't aim to high at first. Plan what you want to do next week or next month and plan out your skill learning in that directions. But while you are getting there simply have fun with what you are currently capable of doing.

    All die, so die well.

  • ZoobiZoobi cardiffPosts: 111Member Uncommon

    Yes it is possible to catch up the the vets -  buy purchasing a pre-trained character and by purchasing ISK. This is all sanctioned by ccp.

  • BigCountryBigCountry Charlotte, NCPosts: 478Member
    Originally posted by Zoobi

    Yes it is possible to catch up the the vets -  buy purchasing a pre-trained character and by purchasing ISK. This is all sanctioned by ccp.

     

    Reverse that. You have to buy the plex first, sell if for ISK in game. Then buy the char via the forums :D

    BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com

  • DowieDowie OckelboPosts: 280Member

    Wow many thanks guys (and gals) and many thanks for the tips BigCountry, gonna give EvE a go now :)  

  • BigCountryBigCountry Charlotte, NCPosts: 478Member

    No problem bro. Eve is a pure sandbox game. You set small goals/tasks and perform each one. Baby steps. It's a monster game. Takes years to master if you play the politics. :D

     

    By getting yourself in a T2 Rifter you will be offering any PvP corp instant asset/value.

     

    You can never have enough tacklers in fleet. :D

    BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • PolypropylenPolypropylen Male, MTPosts: 30Member
    But veterans will always have higher support skills and will be able to fit more/better gear....so a veteran will probably just f*** your ass in PvP.
  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 New York, NYPosts: 884Member Uncommon

    The thing to keep in mind is that there isn't one skill called "EvE" that keeps getting higher and higher forever. There are many many skills that effect many many different aspects of the game, many many of them non-combat. And individual skills can be maxxed out. So a player with 60million skill points may have them all in crafting and trading but be useless on the battlefield (not likely but possible. Also not likely you'd run into such a player on the battlefield)

    So while no you'll never catch up to someone who has been playing longer with regards to overall number of skill points, you absolutely can catch up in specific skill sets. 

    But that hardly matters because if you play EvE with the mindset of comparing one character against another with regards to competition, you're doing it wrong. EvE is the most social/political/economic driven game out there and what matters is not how you compare with another player, but whether you can contribute effectively to your corporation. And that you can do rather quickly, and over time contribute in different ways to greater effect.

     

  • BigCountryBigCountry Charlotte, NCPosts: 478Member
    Originally posted by Paradigm68

    But that hardly matters because if you play EvE with the mindset of comparing one character against another with regards to competition, you're doing it wrong. EvE is the most social/political/economic driven game out there and what matters is not how you compare with another player, but whether you can contribute effectively to your corporation. And that you can do rather quickly, and over time contribute in different ways to greater effect.

     

     

    X2

    Very well stated.

    BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com

  • OrphesOrphes TrePosts: 3,048Member

    I have played around 5 years.

     

    In my corporation there are members that have started this year that have experienced more than me, that have bigger roles in the corporation than I have and most likely will have.

    I've been with the same people 2 years now, he 3-4 months.

     

    That suits me just fine but he is ahead in my view. The game is not only what your amount of SP are, you play this with others and/or against others.

     

    It's up to you.

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    You can never "catch up" to veteran players in EVE based on TOTAL skillpoints, but that's actually largely irrelevant.

    Why ?

    Because there are a limited amount of combat skills, and that pool of skills has changed very slowly over the years. So, it is totally possible to catch up to a veteran player in a specific area.

     

    Let's say there are 25 skills required to fight effectively in a Battle Cruiser. Once you have trained those 25 skills to max, you are completely equal to a 7-year veteran in a Battle Cruiser, skill-wise. The vet may have maxed those skills 6.5 years ago, but he cannot raise those skills any further, regardless of how many skillpoints he has.

    The veteran may also have maxed his battleship skills, exploration skills, mining skills and trading skills, but all those other skills are irrelevant when you are both fighting in Battle Cruisers. And just because that skillset is relatively "trivial" to train, don't think for a second that you'll never see a veteran in a Battle Cruiser.

     

    EVE is not a game where all the vets fly around in the biggest, baddest ships that take years to train the right skills for. Different ships have different roles, and all of them are usefull in specific situations. Don't be surprised when you see a veteran pilot in a frigate or an interceptor. It doesn't take long to learn to use them, and in the right place they are wickedly effective and fun to fly.

     

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Dowie

    I'm really thinking about giving EvE-online a try, i have given the game several tries and really liked it. But there is one thing that have always bothered me with the skill-system, it seems like it's impossibe to catch up the older players in eve.  I really want to go bounty-hunter, but i just can't see it happening.

     

    Is this true? Won't i ever be able to really challenge someone one on one in PvP or to contribute in some kind of fleet-fight?

     

    Skill in EVE are capped at level 5. There are a finite number of skills that can apply to any one ship. Therefore you can "catch up", Q.E.D

    You probably won't catch up to the total SP count of older players, but that doesn't really matter, but the SP total is in and of itself a meaningless figure. The "permanent" advantage that older players will have is that they will have trained up more kinds of ships than you, so they're more likely to be able to field the optimum ship type for the situation.

    A good analogy to think of is some guy who's been playing WoW for 5 years. He probably has a full stable of level 80s, all nicely greared up. If his guild needs him to bring a healer or DPS or tank or crowd control, he can switch out to the character that fits the required role best. You've been playing for 3 months and all you have is one level 80 guy. Your level 80 pally is pretty much the same as his level 80 pally, but he can switch to a Shaman or a Hunter or whatever as required.

    In EVE you switch your character class by switching ship types.

    Once you've got past about 10M SP or so, then the major advantage that "veterans" have over "noobs" like you isn't really skills, but accumulated assets, reputation, game knowledge, practice, experience, contacts and confidence. If we were both to start identical characters tomorrow, I would have a big advantage over you because I'd know exactly how to maximise the use of my time and optimise my skill training, plus I could of course immediately get my alt into the 0.0 alliance I'm in now.

    Those advantages are "soft" advantages, that a new player can compensate for by putting more effort in (I'm kind of lazy about EVE these days), being smarter than me (this is not a high bar to set), being more sober (this is a very low bar indeed), having good social skills, and so on. There's nothing you can't overcome by playing harder & smarter.

    In short: yes, you absolutely can "catch up".

     

     

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by BigCountry

    No problem bro. Eve is a pure sandbox game. You set small goals/tasks and perform each one. Baby steps. It's a monster game. Takes years to master if you play the politics. :D

     

    By getting yourself in a T2 Rifter you will be offering any PvP corp instant asset/value.

     

    You can never have enough tacklers in fleet. :D

     

    This is unironically true, you never can. In fact I am considering suggestion to my alliance leader that we set up a corp for newer players specifically to get more guys in tackle ships (Interceptors and Assault Frigates are pretty easy to skill for, Interdictors are a bit harder but still doable in 3 months or so.)

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,290Member Uncommon

    if you want to catch a veteran in Eve, then you need to fit afterburners at least..  and a point..  but that works for everyone.image

     

  • minime2minime2 cardiffPosts: 113Member

    It's not just the points it's the amount of isk they have accumulated ,  they can throw ships at you which you have no chance to compete against .

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,290Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by minime2

    It's not just the points it's the amount of isk they have accumulated ,  they can throw ships at you which you have no chance to compete against .

    which ships are these exactly, i've been searching for one of them for years, and they all seem to die the same as the others.. image

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by BigCountry

    No problem bro. Eve is a pure sandbox game. You set small goals/tasks and perform each one. Baby steps. It's a monster game. Takes years to master if you play the politics. :D

     

    By getting yourself in a T2 Rifter you will be offering any PvP corp instant asset/value.

     

    You can never have enough tacklers in fleet. :D

     

    This is unironically true, you never can. In fact I am considering suggestion to my alliance leader that we set up a corp for newer players specifically to get more guys in tackle ships (Interceptors and Assault Frigates are pretty easy to skill for, Interdictors are a bit harder but still doable in 3 months or so.)

    Assault frigs are a lot of fun.  My character had 50m SP before I retired and always looked forward to and requested AF roams. The ishkur was a beast when used correctly.

    I'm suprised you had trouble finding people to fill that role.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • ChromeBallzChromeBallz LeidenPosts: 287Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Dowie
    I'm really thinking about giving EvE-online a try, i have given the game several tries and really liked it. But there is one thing that have always bothered me with the skill-system, it seems like it's impossibe to catch up the older players in eve.  I really want to go bounty-hunter, but i just can't see it happening. Is this true? Won't i ever be able to really challenge someone one on one in PvP or to contribute in some kind of fleet-fight?

    There's no need to 'catch up'.

    A lot of new players are staring themselves blind on this magic "skillpoint" number. It doesn't matter. If they know what they're doing, 2 week old newbies can take down a 5 year vet in a battleship easily. The vet's 60-70m skillpoints mean diddly squat in such situations.

    The thing is: A vet may have 100m skillpoints, but if he's flying a frigate, how many do you think he's using?

    Personally, i have all 4 battleship skills at level 5. That's 8 million skillpoints, roughly. However, how do you suppose they're worth 8 million skillpoints when i'm flying, for example, a cruiser? How do those 8m sp help me?


    Hence, total skillpoints do not matter. Even level 5 skills largely do not matter. What does matter is preperation and specialization. As a new player, sample all the offerings. Try different races. Try different weapon systems - But don't train them beyond level 3 (which is a few hours at most). Only make a choice once you got a feel for how it works. Then, you specialize and train the relevant skills to level 5.

    Also remember, bigger ships aren't always better. Battleships can't hit frigates or cruisers. Capital ships can't hit anything that moves faster than an ant at absolute zero. There's ships that specialize purely in support, be it jamming, repairing, cap transfer... So many things you can do and specialize in if you want!

    The only thing veterans really have over newbies is twofold - More options and more experience. That's it. The options bit is overrated anyway (not many people who consciously train science skills and pvp skills to 5), the experience bit can be had by doing what you do in any other mmo - Spend more time playing it.

    Playing: EVE, TERA, BDO
    Played (more than 1 month): WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL, GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH, STO, TSW
    Tried (trial, up to 1 month): EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,943Member Uncommon
    Actually that is not quite true, assuming your playing skill is equal to the other player, the next thing you need is to max out weapons, energy mgmt, armor so on and so forth. That's a he'll of a lo more than 8 million. An equal skilled player with a Damage/turning/speed/armor advantage will nearly all ways win. Then there is isk, a veteran's cash resources will dwarf a new player, so they can buy officer weapons etc and be carefree and aggressive.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    big ships(guns?) can't hit little ships easily (at least from my understanding).

     

    Anyway Eve always seems really cool till after about 2 weeks then I can't bring myself to play anymore.

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