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A handful of good skills in an ocean of meh skills

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  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,706Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    At least that is my conclusion after unlocking more and more of the wheel. They could have easily eliminated 300 or so skills and just kept the good ones, but I guess the game sells better when you say over 500 skills to chose from. I know that it would be hard to come up with 500 useful and good skills, it just seems that the skill wheel is a lot smaller when you eliminate all the fat.

    Yes, new games are starting to do that.

    Tera does that, and I like it for that reason.

    TESO looks like is going the same route.

    When I play WoW clones I generally end up using 5-6 skils over 50-60.

    I really don't feel the need to mess around with hundreds of different skills/buttons

    It doesn't make my game more fun, it just makes it more stressful.

  • MishakaiMishakai westminster, COPosts: 105Member

    With being limited to 7 skills, you really do need to choose what your deck is going to do.  One thing I found early on was that a jack of all trades deck works, for a very short time, and becomes more of a hinderance than anything else.

    One of my early builds was a mix of ranged dps, close range dps and heals.  What I quickly found was that I eventually ran into three issues..

    1) I didn't have enough ranged dps to significantly hurt/kill some mobs before they got close

    2) I didn't have enough close range dps to deal with the ones that got close effectively

    3) My heals weren't good enough to get me through the beating I took when my dps failed to kill the mobs quickly.

    Something had to give...  So I specialized a bit more... I removed the short range dps, and increased the healing and ranged dps.  Then I was able to mow down a few mobs from range before they got close, and the ones that did get close weren't a big deal because I could out heal the dmg.

    Now I'm working on a melee tank build based around penetrating hits, receiving glancing hits, and very high defense/evade in gear.  Completely different playstyle than my other builds, and fun as heck.

  • ZikariZikari SingaporePosts: 78Member
    Originally posted by Vannor

    Concentrate on crit rating and viable skills totally changes. Frenzy and burst skills proc crit more.

     

    No, they do not, multiple hit abilities are limiting special effects to one of the hits. A burst can only crit one of the 3 hits for example.

    Regarding the OP, it only seems that way, a lot of people are expecting just seeing higher DPS numbers in the outer wheel and are puzzled to find partially even smaller ones for similar abilities. Truth is, there are some redundant ones and not all abilities are fun to execute, but at the end of the day there is a lot of meat to digest in that skill wheel. Most people explained already why, so I won't repeat, but if you play for a while you really should understand why a single target strike that does 200 damage is much better than a single target attack that does 220 damage...

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zikari
    Originally posted by Vannor

    Concentrate on crit rating and viable skills totally changes. Frenzy and burst skills proc crit more.

     

    No, they do not, multiple hit abilities are limiting special effects to one of the hits. A burst can only crit one of the 3 hits for example.

    Yes, they do. Sometimes my screen is 'covered' with critical pop-ups. Every 'hit' can crit for the extra damage, if it's not then you just don't have high enough crit chance.

    But, I said they proc crit more, not that they proc passives more... except you are more likely to proc a passive every hit, it's just capped at once per activation. You have 2-6 chances (depending on the skill) to actually score a crit per activation, meaning more opportunities to proc passives every time. But as I said, Effects that proc from crits can only happen once per skill activation. Using bursts/frenzies I score a crit with 'at least' one of those hits almost every time. You only need one every time to make it work.

    I'm not trying to argue it, I just do it all the time. I see it literally almost every activation. That means that with skills like Sweetspot, in the Hammer group, I heal myself for 70+ with every activation.. With Live Wire added I get a guaranteed 600 damage nuke almost every 5 activations... paired with Shoot 'em up I afflict with every attack as well and with Circulation added I also constantly have a heal over time on myself. That's plenty healing/DPS and is definately viable.. and it's from only pressing 1 active skill Supressing Fire. Add in all my other active skills and Egypt is a walk in the park so far.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,574Member Uncommon
    Yes there are many possibilities, I am not denying the flexibility of the skill system in TSW, I am just saying that once you choose to specialize for a specific purpose ( crit, penetration, affliction, burst, frenzy) - suddenly you are looking at a few key abilities that almost all in that specs pick.

    That was my point - unlocking the rest of the skill wheel when you have already attained your "final spec" is largely pointless especially if you are set on playing your character a certain way, with a specific role.

    Not everybody desires to play different decks every week, some folks find something they love and they stay with it. When you reach that point you realize that the majority of the skill wheel is of no interest to you.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Yes there are many possibilities, I am not denying the flexibility of the skill system in TSW, I am just saying that once you choose to specialize for a specific purpose ( crit, penetration, affliction, burst, frenzy) - suddenly you are looking at a few key abilities that almost all in that specs pick. That was my point - unlocking the rest of the skill wheel when you have already attained your "final spec" is largely pointless especially if you are set on playing your character a certain way, with a specific role. Not everybody desires to play different decks every week, some folks find something they love and they stay with it. When you reach that point you realize that the majority of the skill wheel is of no interest to you.

    I think staying in one skill set for the entire game is 1. Boring 2. Lazy and 3. Probably not a good idea for the most difficult parts of the game. You will come across enemies that are immune to 'Hinder' or 'Weakened', for example, which can render some skillsets totally useless.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,574Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vannor

    Originally posted by DMKano
    Yes there are many possibilities, I am not denying the flexibility of the skill system in TSW, I am just saying that once you choose to specialize for a specific purpose ( crit, penetration, affliction, burst, frenzy) - suddenly you are looking at a few key abilities that almost all in that specs pick. That was my point - unlocking the rest of the skill wheel when you have already attained your "final spec" is largely pointless especially if you are set on playing your character a certain way, with a specific role. Not everybody desires to play different decks every week, some folks find something they love and they stay with it. When you reach that point you realize that the majority of the skill wheel is of no interest to you.

    I think staying in one skill set for the entire game is 1. Boring 2. Lazy and 3. Probably not a good idea for the most difficult parts of the game. You will come across enemies that are immune to 'Hinder' or 'Weakened', for example, which can render some skillsets totally useless.

     

    Yes I know this Ive gone through carpathian fangs already so I am well aware on how to deal with specific mob immunities. You adjust your build slightly but for me that didn't mean changing my weapons. Same thing with having a non-affliction build etc...Yes you make minor tweaks to deal with a given situation. Still looking at it in total with 4 different decks I have it still is basically around 30something skills total that i use and swap around (mostly passives).

    As far as you calling my way of playing boring.... Well that is your opinion and that is fine, after 13 years of mmorpgs I know my likes and dislikes :)
  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon

    I don't know about the OP, but I constantly re-evaluate my build and find new skills to use plenty of times.  You REALLY have to pay attention to what EXACTLY a skill or passive does for you...you then have to link as many of that type of skill/passive together for ultimate use.  In each weapon tree there are several different synergies you could go after and a few different ways to make each synergy work.  At this point Im in Blue Mountain and am mowing over mobs.  Maybe I'll take a screenshot to also show how many active procs I have ticking all at once...it's normally around 4-6...anywhere from increased hit, evade and dodge to more mit and even a heal for everytime I block....which I had to spend 42 SP on, but it's worth it...Imma tank if you didnt guess though..

    I would definitely say there are some skills that do make you scratch your head, but most of them are at the beginning of the skill wheel and so you don't scratch your head because you realize that they are more "starter" abilities than more defined ones.  Although, I am still using my first skill in the Hammer wheel...it's just that good.

    image
  • KhaerosKhaeros Monroe, NYPosts: 452Member
    Originally posted by Dakirn
     

     

    You can do all that.. or you can just add two passives from Blood called Dark Potency and Iron Maiden.  Suddenly, you get +150 pen AND +10% pen.  Dark Potency does the exact same thing as Fatal Flourish when I have some sort of affliction going on, but is much cheaper to get in terms of AP!  And sure, throw Matador in if you need a stackable defense buff (we haven't reached our 7 actives yet).

     

    So we have Delicate Strike, and now we need a finisher.  How about one that automatically penetrates whenever it hits?  Clearing the Path sounds great for our pen build since we're applying Afflict every hit!

     

    But maybe we need more AOE.  Crimson Theatre gives us constant damage on the enemies (and is overpowered currently).  Any good tank can keep mobs off me.

     

    Throw in Matador for tough fights.  So we have four abilities, and the other three can be used for some utility or self-healing, making our build much more compressed. (Fatal Flourish won't stack with Dark Potency, and Dark Potency is so much cheaper of an AP investment than Fatal Flourish).

     

    My main builder now has 20% + 150  chance to penetrate.  My finisher always penetrates.  I have constant AOE damage, and a defense builder if need be.  I shouldn't have any difficulty keeping up weaken, as I plan to gear for hit and pen. 

     

    ---

     

    Only one stack is removed by a Bloodsport glance.  Since I've glyphed hit rating, though.. glancing doesn't happen often unless I'm fighting red con mobs (why would I be fighting those)?.

     

    Using Delicate Strike (and having a very high chance to penetrate), stacking 12 Gouge is no problem at all.  I pen almost every hit.

     

    The problem with your build  (Fatal Flourish / Grass Cutter) is that it requires more AP to do the exact same thing as mine does. 

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Yes there are many possibilities, I am not denying the flexibility of the skill system in TSW, I am just saying that once you choose to specialize for a specific purpose ( crit, penetration, affliction, burst, frenzy) - suddenly you are looking at a few key abilities that almost all in that specs pick. That was my point - unlocking the rest of the skill wheel when you have already attained your "final spec" is largely pointless especially if you are set on playing your character a certain way, with a specific role. Not everybody desires to play different decks every week, some folks find something they love and they stay with it. When you reach that point you realize that the majority of the skill wheel is of no interest to you.

    I think staying in one skill set for the entire game is 1. Boring 2. Lazy and 3. Probably not a good idea for the most difficult parts of the game. You will come across enemies that are immune to 'Hinder' or 'Weakened', for example, which can render some skillsets totally useless.

     

    Yes I know this Ive gone through carpathian fangs already so I am well aware on how to deal with specific mob immunities. You adjust your build slightly but for me that didn't mean changing my weapons. Same thing with having a non-affliction build etc...Yes you make minor tweaks to deal with a given situation. Still looking at it in total with 4 different decks I have it still is basically around 30something skills total that i use and swap around (mostly passives). As far as you calling my way of playing boring.... Well that is your opinion and that is fine, after 13 years of mmorpgs I know my likes and dislikes :)

    Id say it the best idea might be to swap weapons....if a mob is immune to affliction, but not weaken, then you should switch to weapons that have a better option to provide weakening based skills...this way, not only are you adjusting to the mob so that there isn't a negative effect, you are also boosting your abilities by applying an effect that they are not immune to.

    image
  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Yes there are many possibilities, I am not denying the flexibility of the skill system in TSW, I am just saying that once you choose to specialize for a specific purpose ( crit, penetration, affliction, burst, frenzy) - suddenly you are looking at a few key abilities that almost all in that specs pick. That was my point - unlocking the rest of the skill wheel when you have already attained your "final spec" is largely pointless especially if you are set on playing your character a certain way, with a specific role. Not everybody desires to play different decks every week, some folks find something they love and they stay with it. When you reach that point you realize that the majority of the skill wheel is of no interest to you.

    I think staying in one skill set for the entire game is 1. Boring 2. Lazy and 3. Probably not a good idea for the most difficult parts of the game. You will come across enemies that are immune to 'Hinder' or 'Weakened', for example, which can render some skillsets totally useless.

    Yes I know this Ive gone through carpathian fangs already so I am well aware on how to deal with specific mob immunities. You adjust your build slightly but for me that didn't mean changing my weapons. Same thing with having a non-affliction build etc...Yes you make minor tweaks to deal with a given situation. Still looking at it in total with 4 different decks I have it still is basically around 30something skills total that i use and swap around (mostly passives). As far as you calling my way of playing boring.... Well that is your opinion and that is fine, after 13 years of mmorpgs I know my likes and dislikes :)

    I wasn't trying to insult you by saying it's boring playing that way, I don't even know how you play, I just think you yourself would have a better time if you took the initiative. It's a double edged sword, if the game forced you switch weapons all the time and completely change your builds then wouldn't that be annoying? I certainly wouldn't like it, especially since there isn't a quick way to swap decks. I know plenty would complain about that sort of thing.

    Pretty much every skill is useful in one way or another though, if you want to make more use of more skills then all you have to do is make more use of more skills. All you have to do is say, I feel like trying out pistols and blood now.. you will probably find a skillset with those that suits your playstyle.

    I don't see what you what you expect to get from the system. The only thing stopping you from using the new skills you are getting is you. But you have to consider that other people know their likes and dislikes as well.. and they arn't always the same as yours. The skill system is there to cater for lots of different tastes. Your 30 something skills are probably 95% different to my 30 something skills. it's the nature of MMOs, you won't like everything but everything will be liked by someone.

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Yes there are many possibilities, I am not denying the flexibility of the skill system in TSW, I am just saying that once you choose to specialize for a specific purpose ( crit, penetration, affliction, burst, frenzy) - suddenly you are looking at a few key abilities that almost all in that specs pick. That was my point - unlocking the rest of the skill wheel when you have already attained your "final spec" is largely pointless especially if you are set on playing your character a certain way, with a specific role. Not everybody desires to play different decks every week, some folks find something they love and they stay with it. When you reach that point you realize that the majority of the skill wheel is of no interest to you.

     

    That's a personal choice.  I can't see anyone who chooses to play their character in one way complaining about a lack of depth that is available to them.  The depth is still there, whether a particular player avails themselves of it or not is up to them.

    Personally, I love the flexibility.  I'm an unrepentant alt-aholic, and I've been dabbling in a range of different weapons and roles while progressing through the game world.  While I don't have a killer-spec for any particular role, I have a lot of different ways I can play my character, and change them depending on what I'm doing at the time.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    Many of the differences between skills are extremely subtle and I'm only starting to see the differences as I get into having more and more skills.  I'm also only playing one role at the moment (DPS), so i accept that many of the skills are more relevant for other roles and/or other builds.

     

    In truth, the OP is correct in that for any given build, there are only a handful of good skills in an ocean of skills that are not good for that build.    But, that's the beauty of the system also - as soon as you change your build, a whole bunch of OTHER skills suddenly become good (and a bunch more become not good for that build.)

     

    Here is an example..

    I've currently run "Toxic Earth" which puts a DoT on every mob I hinder that does approx 350 damage (over 4 hits).  Toxic earth is an inner wheel ability and relatively cheap.   Meanwhile I've been looking at my AR outer wheel and I see an elite 50AP ability that does sort of the same thing.  Only instead of putting a DoT on every mob I hinder, it attaches a grenade to them which explodes 3 seconds later and does 300 damage.   So immediately i think.. "well this is kinda retarded.. why would i want a much more expensive skill that does 300 damage on hinder, when i can have a super-cheap skill that does 350 dmg on hinder?!  Stupid design!!!"  

     

    Well.. from what I've been reading, many endgame mobs will heal or do other nasty crap when they're inflicted.  So my first skill there - Toxic Earth - would be useless since DoT = Inflict.  On the other hand, the 2nd skill would be usable, since it's just direct damage.   Subtle difference and one I didn't understand until very recently.  There is a lot of that sort of thing in TSW.  Skills that may not make sense to you NOW, may end up making perfect sense later.  Or not - obviously with 525 skills on the wheel, there will be some that need fine-tuning.

     

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  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by DMKano
    At least that is my conclusion after unlocking more and more of the wheel. They could have easily eliminated 300 or so skills and just kept the good ones, but I guess the game sells better when you say over 500 skills to chose from. I know that it would be hard to come up with 500 useful and good skills, it just seems that the skill wheel is a lot smaller when you eliminate all the fat.

    I must agree here. I read the skills and tried out combinations over and over, only to come to the realization that there are in fact only very few skills and skill combos which truly work. Many are just trash skills, traps to waste time and skill-points into.

    Champions Online had a similar issue in it's original launch version; some skills were just trash and useless altogether, but they seemed to have remedied it.

    It's just more proof for me the entire difficulty VS freedom of choice idea is simply not balanced in TSW. As much as it pains me, because I love the setting and story, I am going to cancel my account for the time being. The hardships in later zones are just not fun when I am constantly running into walls what I can not do.

    If only you spend this much time on coming up with some counter builds like you spent complaining you wouldn't run into any walls.

    Hard and very hard missions are soloable but that doesn't mean you can not group for them. I got my ass handed to me in trans on hard mission.

    Then i checked the icons on monsters, figured out the effects they are resistent to, noticed the buffs they put on me... (yes every hard mob will but buffs on you, make sure to have one purge in passive or active abilities)

    I changed my skills, added a purge skill, went back and killed everything solo. Could i have taken a group? yes indeed but i would rather actually use the pool of skills avilable to me than blame entire thing on 'this game is unbalanced'.

    I wish players would just atleast look at the icons on monsters, it is very easy to come up with counter builds if you actually read skills before unlocking them.

    I haven't found any useless skill so far, you can check my chronicles i have 10 in blade, hammer, shotgun and pistols. There are different kind of builds for example strike and blast. Don't just look at the skill but look at what type of skill it is.

    It might be usless to you but if used properly with blast build for example, it can be devastating.

  • GargolaGargola Panama, FLPosts: 356Member

    people doesn't take the time or effort as to see what the potential synergies are, or simply chose to ignore it all and go with a limited number of abilities and then say most of the abilities are useles??.

     

    Quite funny blaming it on the system, when it's merely personal decision or the lack of attempt.  Gamers always post in the forums they want games that offer this or that, that makes them think, that give them some freedom... etc, etc...  but many just go an ignore those when any game gives them.

     

    Funny, apparently gamers don't really know what they want, cause usually what they say is far away from what they do.

  • BlackndBlacknd Wat, NYPosts: 600Member
    Originally posted by Dakirn
    Originally posted by Khaeros

    Delicate Strike from Blade builds for both weapons and with a cheap passive, has an extra 10% chance to penetrate.  Suddenly you have your main builder for almost every blade pen build ever, and it costs you 1 AP.

     

    The inconsistency is amazing, though.  Some elites are worthless, while some normals are just so powerful that it's hard to build out of them.  Bloodsport is a Fist passive that allows all your attacks to put up affliction with only a little investment into the outer wheel, which can be used to power any affliction build.  Now add 12 Gouge (another minimal investment into an outer wheel), and you can now exploit afflicted on penetrating hits to provide weaken.  At least Close Quarters is an elite - because that pretty much provides a constant hinder effect as long as you attack someone in melee range.

     

    Red Mist is probably the only elite that belongs where it's at.

    Delicate Strike and Delicate Precision are ok to start with but there are much better combinations.  You're using a gimped builder with a passive that only works for that builder when you could be using a more advanced builder that also works off of other effects and another passive that builds Penetration buff counters.  Fatal Flourish will give you Penetration stacks each time you hit an Afflicted target.

     

    Since you mentioned adding in Bloodsport, lets see what else you could do by using Fatal Flourish instead of Delicate Precision.  Note that each hit builds +30 Precision up to a max of 5 stacks compared to a flat 10%.  This stacked penetration buff works for all attacks and not just your builder.

     

    Grass Cutter hits for more damage on Afflicted targets.

    Matador would give you 1 Defensive stack.

     

    This build would be superior to the one that you mentioned.  Yes it costs 1 more AP but now you can stack up to +150 Penetration, Affliction, a stack buff up to +150 defense.  In all ways superior to your original build which was designed as a bridge to a more advanced build and not something to be used for the entire game.

     

    Bloodsport has a downside.  If you glance on a target it removes all stacks of the Affliction that are running.  That doesn't stop "when you Afflict a target" but it can hurt "when you hit an Afflicted target."

     

    12 Gauge only works on Penetration.  Considering you need to build 10 stacks to get the maximum Weaken buff that's 10 Penetrates which is a pretty hard thing to do before the debuff wears off.

     

    There are synergies everywhere.  The skill tree is incredibly well thought out.  There are probably some things that could be better but calling 300+ abilities useless isn't near accurate (not saying that you did this but as a general note).

    Delicate Strike is hardly gimp on a build that wants to Penetrate as much as possible. It's pretty damn BiS as a builder if your that's your goal. The Pen rating and the +10% chance to Pen on Delicate Strike stack.

    It's very common for me to Penetrate a single target many times in a row with Delicate.

    I also run Bloodsport to apply Affliction, Dark Potency to give me Pen Rating on every application of Afflicted (Every hit), and Iron Maiden that gives me a +10% chance to Penetrate buff when I penetrate an Afflicted target. 

    So as my objective with Blade/Rifle is to penetrate as much as possible, no, Delicate Strike isn't gimped.

    .. But in a good way.

  • eugameugam somewhere town, ARPosts: 989Member
    Originally posted by ericbelser

    This was one of the big design element complaints I had in the beta; there is a LOT of functional duplication and incremental upgrade in that skill wheel. Don't get me wrong, it still offers a lot of versatility compared to the WoW-style skill tree/point system but it never delivered on the number of 'unique' skills/builds the games hype claimed for it. Combined with the lack of racial or factional differences, it makes the actual number of distinct options open to players a lot closer to a 'standard' MMO than the rabid fans claimed ;)

     

    The similar abilities are just similar. This is required for different builds. There are some almost equal but with different triggers or exploits. If you only look from your point of view many of them are useless. But for a broader audience those are real choices.

  • AericynAericyn Jita, WAPosts: 394Member Uncommon

    Some people's fat is another person's Bacon! :)

    I think people frankly dismiss the complexity. They say - "hey this sounds like that or hey this does more damage for no reason, and it even costs less points to unlock... well thats just dumb"

    Using Corrupted status on vampires - just for one example, makes a big difference. There are a lot of mobs that seem harder because folks miss what they can do.

    In game chat, someone was complaining how come a tier one skill did more damage than a tier two. They didn't recognize the tier one has no trigger or subtype. So maybe bigger bang but no bells or whistles.

    I won't argue that there may be some redundancy in the wheel - but I also think it's intentional to a point, and not for lack of vision. Such as there being multiple ways to get Crit Rating buff. Having 500+ abilities lessens redundancy impact.

    We also have no idea what AA paths Ragnar is thinking of, and I believe they are thinking of them.

    I like being able to consider different approachs using the same character, do I go strike, chain, or burst? Do I want affliction or hindered? What can be boosted by using any one of those? Can I go cookie cutter? Sure, but is it necessary or fun in this system? I don't think so.

    With the number of skills as time goes by I hope to see more interesting attempts by players. Instead of generally spamming Escalation or Bamboo Cutter because those "work". Think outside the skill tree a bit and explore the wheel. 

  • KhaerosKhaeros Monroe, NYPosts: 452Member

    Build advice:  use assault rifle.

  • Originally posted by Gargola

    people doesn't take the time or effort as to see what the potential synergies are, or simply chose to ignore it all and go with a limited number of abilities and then say most of the abilities are useles??.

     

    Quite funny blaming it on the system, when it's merely personal decision or the lack of attempt.  Gamers always post in the forums they want games that offer this or that, that makes them think, that give them some freedom... etc, etc...  but many just go an ignore those when any game gives them.

     

    Funny, apparently gamers don't really know what they want, cause usually what they say is far away from what they do.

    There are a number of skills that simply suck.  This is especially noticeable in the passives.  Some passives give exactly the same effect at exactly the same amount with exactly the same amount of stacks but one triggers on a rarer or conditional effect and the other doesn't.  Thus making one clearly superior.  The only reason you would use the inferior one is when you are initially AP poor.  It will later be made completely obsolete.

     

    Things are not entirely balanced.  There are not always good tradeoffs.  Some paaives simply are inferior in comparison with a close analog.

  • moreblahblahmoreblahblah privatePosts: 58Member
    Originally posted by DMKano
    At least that is my conclusion after unlocking more and more of the wheel. They could have easily eliminated 300 or so skills and just kept the good ones, but I guess the game sells better when you say over 500 skills to chose from. I know that it would be hard to come up with 500 useful and good skills, it just seems that the skill wheel is a lot smaller when you eliminate all the fat.

    You just don't understand the mechanics.

  • KenzeKenze Posts: 1,214Member Uncommon

    if the mechanics of the game are so obscure, convoluted that a large portion of its customers are having issues with it then maybe the game doesnt explain in a sufficent way the way things work. I think the skill wheel descriptions and the skill search function could use A LOT of work . I know alot of fanboys will start yapping about the game isnt for mouthbreather WoWkids etcs..but can Funcom afford to alienate potential longterm, steady customers who otherwise love the game but find "theorycrafting", spreadsheets and synergy diagrams to confusing and daunting to deal with?

    isnt providing better info  and easier to understand mechanics that make sense to ALL including the lowest common a "dumbing down" everyone should be able to live with?

    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    —Lao-Tze

  • moreblahblahmoreblahblah privatePosts: 58Member
    Originally posted by Kenze

    I know alot of fanboys will start yapping about the game isnt for mouthbreather WoWkids etcs..but can Funcom afford to alienate potential longterm, steady customers who otherwise love the game but find "theorycrafting", spreadsheets and synergy diagrams to confusing and daunting to deal with?

    isnt providing better info  and easier to understand mechanics that make sense to ALL including the lowest common a "dumbing down" everyone should be able to live with?

    Well they alienated a bunch of "WoWkids" when they put cursing in the game and nipples on monsters, I see no issue alienating those who are unable to comprehend either. Weed them both out because I rather like not playing with either one of those demographics personally, seems to me Funcom has the right idea.

  • BigRock411BigRock411 Barrington, ILPosts: 299Member
    Originally posted by moreblahblah
    Originally posted by Kenze

    I know alot of fanboys will start yapping about the game isnt for mouthbreather WoWkids etcs..but can Funcom afford to alienate potential longterm, steady customers who otherwise love the game but find "theorycrafting", spreadsheets and synergy diagrams to confusing and daunting to deal with?

    isnt providing better info  and easier to understand mechanics that make sense to ALL including the lowest common a "dumbing down" everyone should be able to live with?

    Well they alienated a bunch of "WoWkids" when they put cursing in the game and nipples on monsters, I see no issue alienating those who are unable to comprehend either. Weed them both out because I rather like not playing with either one of those demographics personally, seems to me Funcom has the right idea.

     

    No worries, panda mist and gw2 should clear tsw of all the kiddies and broseph's at least for a short time.

     

    Id much prefer a smaller "nornal" community and live with the realization the game wont have 20mil subs and 50 servers packed with people i dont want to converse with.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Kenze

    ..but can Funcom afford to alienate potential longterm, steady customers who otherwise love the game but find "theorycrafting", spreadsheets and synergy diagrams to confusing and daunting to deal with?

    isnt providing better info  and easier to understand mechanics that make sense to ALL including the lowest common a "dumbing down" everyone should be able to live with?

    You don't need to do any of that. This isn't another Eve. Long as you read the descriptions of the skills you can figure things out easily.

    Seems some simply can't be bothered though. They have plenty of Decks available to help a player get started as well.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

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