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Darkfall 2.0 - Interview with Tasos

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Comments

  • PsyMike3dPsyMike3d AthensPosts: 388Member Uncommon

    So in other words, you couldn't think of even one feature they missed at launch? I can. But they weren't numerous.

    true...

  • OrphesOrphes TrePosts: 3,048Member
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
     

     

    Many gamers take this far to seriously and personally. Then again, I tend to socialize with people who are thinking of riding bicycle on the freeway.

     

    Lol, where do you see the connection between playing games relaxed and being stupid?

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member
    Originally posted by Brenelael

     

    No... I have no problem with FFA PvP w/Full loot. What I do have an issue with is developers that make all kinds of grandiose promises that they know they have no way of keeping. Tasos made these promises, some of which were outrite lies to the fan base for 8 years before Darkfall finally released. He was lying to the fanbase just days before the game was released. I know, I was there. If DF 2.0 is what he claims it will be I will be very surprised. This is a guy that has literally made a career out of telling fans whatever he thinks they want to hear and then trying to backpeddle when his lies are exposed by reality. This time Tasos need to show me he's on the level because I'm not going to fall for it again.

     

    Bren

    quiting a game you like because the developers made promises they didnt keep has got to be the most stupid thing I have ever heard of and yes I know a lot of darkfall players quit the game not because they didnt like the game, in fact they agreed it was the best MMO out there but they quit because they didnt like how the developer communicated.

    Dev communication has got to be at the bottom of my list on things I care about even more so if I am currently playing the game and enjoying it.

    Zenimax is an expection because 1. the game isnt out yet. 2. everything they say about the game is rather disgusting and 3. they insult the intelligence of the gamers. HAVING SAID THAT, if the game was out and I liked it I wouldnt give two d*cks about that either

     

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    quiting a game you like because the developers made promises they didnt keep has got to be the most stupid thing I have ever heard of and yes I know a lot of darkfall players quit the game not because they didnt like the game, in fact they agreed it was the best MMO out there but they quit because they didnt like how the developer communicated.

    Dev communication has got to be at the bottom of my list on things I care about even more so if I am currently playing the game and enjoying it.

    Zenimax is an expection because 1. the game isnt out yet. 2. everything they say about the game is rather disgusting and 3. they insult the intelligence of the gamers. HAVING SAID THAT, if the game was out and I liked it I wouldnt give two d*cks about that either

     

    Believe it or not, by many people don't like being treated like idiots. When someone blatantly and repeatedly lies to you and then expect you to pay him for it, it's only normal that you eventually get pissed off and refuse to pay him.

    Tasos is, together with Henrik Nyström at Starvault, the most notorious liar and scam artist in the MMO industry. Just like MO, DF would have been much better off if the devs had been honest and open from the start - that way many players would have been more tolerant and accepted the games for what they were/are instead of abandoning them in angry disappointment.

    DF is a fun game but it's not the game that Tasos promised the community. Same thing with MO, it has some strong points (even though it's in much worse shape technically than DF), but its enormous amount of flaws just look extra ridiculous when you see Henrik hype it like it's the second coming and promising tons of shit that never make it into the game.

    I don't know why but it seems these indie sandbox devs think it's a good idea to just overhype and underdeliver like there's no tomorrow. That's why have no high hopes for DF 2.0, nor for MO's Awakening either. I'm currently subbed to DF 1.0. but that's just because there's nothing else worth playing atm (plus it's dirt cheap and the grind is gone). I'm not expecting much from AV, and that way I'm enjoying the game more.

     

  • BigRock411BigRock411 Barrington, ILPosts: 299Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by OldManFunk

    Ah Tasos, he's a funny guy. I remember when we were asking him what a gloomer was when they were discussing siege warfare and his response was something to the effect of, "What does it matter if it's a polished turd?" lol

    Well, he certainly delivered that in Version 1.0. image

    Lets not forget that this isnt Tasos game and its by no means a game a bunch of greek people made.  Razorwax made this game, a norweigan game studio.  And part of the reason this game had an incredibly epic development time was that the game was sold (not sure if razorwax exists after) and was taken over by adventurine, and it took them a while to sift throught the code and finish i guess.  Part of this change of hands explains where theres so many random spots in darkfall with a whole lot of detail in the ladscape, but theres nothing there but one or two mob spawns...it was going to be something then was abandoned...its pretty cool that there was a lot of "buildings" with several floors lots of rooms and tons of stuff to explore only that it was all empty (aside from a lame chest)

    This game was an epic pve game, i know the community that stayed was a FPS PVP crowd who cared more about maxing out asap and pvping than the pve aspect, and ended up chasing away the pve crowd.  If it wasnt for macros and this FPS crowd there would be a vibrant pve community, there wouldnt be a need to continually nerf progression, to the point where they have what...20X XP gain?  Whats the point of that just give everyone a maxed out character for passing the login test at this point.

     

    I was excited for DF2 initally.  Im terrible at this type of pvp and never win a fight, but was able to play 2 years and loved it, just sucked on 1vs1 encounters and whenever paired against the "im sure they are not hacking but still.." FPS pvp pros.

     

    Its come to my realization that the next incarnation of darkfall is going to be more or less an arena FFA pvp game in a smaller world with less focus on progression skill building and pve and more focus on just gaking and pvp.  Its going to be more like a persistant FPS game where everyones going to be "fair" in skill (actually skill gains were so minor before you realyl didnt need maxed out to compete)

     

    Anyway i wish the game the best of luck but DF2 is looking more and more like a game i would want to avoid.  I would kill for the origional, non progression nerfed DF game to be launched somewhere where the current FPS pvp crowd wouldnt find it, it would be a fantastic UO type game.  UO use to have like 80% pve players and 20% gankers, enough to be interesting and still keep a pve community games like this need to be fun.  Darkfall is 99% pvp ganker and 1% or less pve player...i still had fun pve farming and in seiges but 2.0 is looking like a shallow pvp brawler.  Since that will be the focus and i dislike and suck at twitch fps combat, no way im sticking around for that...ill hop in if its a good pve game with a fair amount of ffa full loot pvp though...love the risk even if i suck at it.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member
    Originally posted by Biskop
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    quiting a game you like because the developers made promises they didnt keep has got to be the most stupid thing I have ever heard of and yes I know a lot of darkfall players quit the game not because they didnt like the game, in fact they agreed it was the best MMO out there but they quit because they didnt like how the developer communicated.

    Dev communication has got to be at the bottom of my list on things I care about even more so if I am currently playing the game and enjoying it.

    Zenimax is an expection because 1. the game isnt out yet. 2. everything they say about the game is rather disgusting and 3. they insult the intelligence of the gamers. HAVING SAID THAT, if the game was out and I liked it I wouldnt give two d*cks about that either

     

    Believe it or not, by many people don't like being treated like idiots. When someone blatantly and repeatedly lies to you and then expect you to pay him for it, it's only normal that you eventually get pissed off and refuse to pay him.

    Tasos is, together with Henrik Nyström at Starvault, the most notorious liar and scam artist in the MMO industry. Just like MO, DF would have been much better off if the devs had been honest and open from the start - that way many players would have been more tolerant and accepted the games for what they were/are instead of abandoning them in angry disappointment.

    DF is a fun game but it's not the game that Tasos promised the community. Same thing with MO, it has some strong points (even though it's in much worse shape technically than DF), but its enormous amount of flaws just look extra ridiculous when you see Henrik hype it like it's the second coming and promising tons of shit that never make it into the game.

    I don't know why but it seems these indie sandbox devs think it's a good idea to just overhype and underdeliver like there's no tomorrow. That's why have no high hopes for DF 2.0, nor for MO's Awakening either. I'm currently subbed to DF 1.0. but that's just because there's nothing else worth playing atm (plus it's dirt cheap and the grind is gone). I'm not expecting much from AV, and that way I'm enjoying the game more.

     

    yes yes I know I have heard it before I am just telling you for me personally I couldnt give a f8ck and it is the bottom of my concerns both in video games and in real life.

    If I am going to stop doing something I enjoy in order to make a statement you can bet your a$$ I am going to pick something with a larger impact then a f8cking game.

    Here is the thing though....and its the most important part so read carefully..

    if you DONT like the game then the entire equation is different. If you DO like the game but are ticked off because its not the game you expected BUT you still love it, then protesting is just retarded on the grand scheme of things to protest.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
     
    text

     

    It's not really that black and white, now is it? I'd say it's a combination of different aspects that make people rage about devs like Tasos and Henrik.

    A lot of people were disappointed with DF in various ways but they played it for a while anyway - not because they still loved it but because there was nothing else to play if you enjoyed twitch-based fps combat in a fantasy FFA MMO (well then MO came along but since it was so horribly broken you can't really compare the two from a purely technical/perfomance point of view). People stuck around for this reason, but eventually they got sick and tired of the game not changing for the better despite Tasos' bullshit claims.

    The same goes for MO; very few people quit "only" because of bad of dev communication. Most of the original playerbase left early on since the game was a mess at launch, but a decent amount kept playing, partly due to there being nothing else to play and partly because the devs kept promising the game would eventually improve. However, when nothing changed for the better, even the most patient ones left, leaving only the totally blind fanboys and some naïve people who should know better.

    You have to understand that most of the time, broken promises and outright lies from the devs can't be separated from people's actual gaming experience. You might not care about this, but many others do and that's not because they're stupid. MMOs are traditionally very community based, and thus it means a lot whether the devs communicate with the playerbase in a respectable way or whether they treat them like mindless sheep just waiting to part with their money. Playing an MMO is a long-term commitment (well at least it used to be...) so it's not that strange that people don't want to commit to a game run by liars and scam artists.

    It's not about protest really, I think it has more to do with MMO culture in general, combined with some general sense of consumer rights.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member
    Originally posted by Biskop
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
     
    text

     

    It's not really that black and white, now is it? I'd say it's a combination of different aspects that make people rage about devs like Tasos and Henrik.

    A lot of people were disappointed with DF in various ways but they played it for a while anyway - not because they still loved it but because there was nothing else to play if you enjoyed twitch-based fps combat in a fantasy FFA MMO (well then MO came along but since it was so horribly broken you can't really compare the two from a purely technical/perfomance point of view). People stuck around for this reason, but eventually they got sick and tired of the game not changing for the better despite Tasos' bullshit claims.

    The same goes for MO; very few people quit "only" because of bad of dev communication. Most of the original playerbase left early on since the game was a mess at launch, but a decent amount kept playing, partly due to there being nothing else to play and partly because the devs kept promising the game would eventually improve. However, when nothing changed for the better, even the most patient ones left, leaving only the totally blind fanboys and some naïve people who should know better.

    You have to understand that most of the time, broken promises and outright lies from the devs can't be separated from people's actual gaming experience. You might not care about this, but many others do and that's not because they're stupid. MMOs are traditionally very community based, and thus it means a lot whether the devs communicate with the playerbase in a respectable way or whether they treat them like mindless sheep just waiting to part with their money. Playing an MMO is a long-term commitment (well at least it used to be...) so it's not that strange that people don't want to commit to a game run by liars and scam artists.

    It's not about protest really, I think it has more to do with MMO culture in general, combined with some general sense of consumer rights.

    There is a rather large (or at least very vocal) part of the darkfall community who have been nearly explictly saying this.

    'I like this MMO, there isnt another MMO better but I am quiting because the dev lied and/or have horrible communication'

    I am addressing ONLY that kind of mind set.

    BY FAR the most important thing in a game that is out for me is the game play. If I like the game I play, all other 'offline' aspects of the development team is unimportant to me.

    Dev communication, business practices and honesty NEVER factor into it if I like the game.

    I have read MANY posts over the years as well as conversation in game of players who explictly said that the conduct of the development team was more important to them then the game play. bizzare I know but 100% true.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • indiramournindiramourn Moorpark, CAPosts: 884Member Uncommon

    Well said, Biskop.  Thank you for phrasing what I've always felt in such a clear way.

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by OldManFunk

    Ah Tasos, he's a funny guy. I remember when we were asking him what a gloomer was when they were discussing siege warfare and his response was something to the effect of, "What does it matter if it's a polished turd?" lol

    Well, he certainly delivered that in Version 1.0. image

    seiges in Darkfall were friggin fun! I guess its true when people say most gamers need a little hand holding, safety feeling and total fairness so no ones feelings get hurt when they lose.

    wankers...

     

    Because if they can fight back and you can't just gank away til your hearts content then why play at all...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAPosts: 2,898Member

    And still no one has been able to name these fabled "broken promises"...

     

    I'll get the ball rolling...  there were supposed to be roving NPC groups that could be overhunted and migrate. And there was supposed to be a skill decay system. I believe the latter was axed in beta. Those are the only two big ones I can think of right now. There was supposed to be a weather system, but that also wasn't working well in beta so they put it on hold and released it about 6 months later.

     

    The only "lie" that AV is really guilty of, is missing their ETAs. Which they do. A lot. But that's not a lie. That's just a poor estimate.

  • gravesworngravesworn charleston, WVPosts: 324Member
    Darkfall was one of my best mmo experiences during EU release. It was far from perfect but i had a blast. I am looking forward to 2.0.
  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    TBH I think blaming the Dev team is a copout. People say that instead of saying the grind, the FPS like combat and the FFA full-loot.

    It's actually pretty amazing what AV has accomplished with Darkfall. It is probably one of, if not the, most innovative mmo's of the last 10 years.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAPosts: 2,898Member
    Originally posted by Atlan99

    TBH I think blaming the Dev team is a copout. People say that instead of saying the grind, the FPS like combat and the FFA full-loot.

    It's actually pretty amazing what AV has accomplished with Darkfall. It is probably one of if not the most innovative mmo's of the last 10 years.

    Oh without a doubt. People seem to forget that these forums were a hot bed for people claiming it was a scam, and that it was't possible to do real time combat without instances, tracking balistics and everything.

    And they were wrong. And that's still hilarious. I remember the CONSTANT barrage those trolls did to these forums. Every time the game was brought up they were here derailing it. Then, beta came out, and they all just vanished.

     

    In any case, the FPS FFA combat isn't the reason, I don't think. Those things can be done well, and have been. There needs to be a more well thought out system to integrate none PvP oriented folks.

    It really was how poorly balanced the skills were, requiring you to have most of them to compete in PvP. But, that is fixed in 2.0.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member
    Originally posted by Atlan99

    TBH I think blaming the Dev team is a copout. People say that instead of saying the grind, the FPS like combat and the FFA full-loot.

    It's actually pretty amazing what AV has accomplished with Darkfall. It is probably one of, if not the, most innovative mmo's of the last 10 years.

    the vast majority of the time, in all things, scapegoating just ends up making the person scaptegoating appear to be more moronic then they would if they had just been more honest in the first place.

     

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    BY FAR the most important thing in a game that is out for me is the game play. If I like the game I play, all other 'offline' aspects of the development team is unimportant to me.

    Dev communication, business practices and honesty NEVER factor into it if I like the game.

     

    OK.. So you don't care about the future and longevity of the game you play? About patching, bugfixing, new content, and coming expansions? It doesn't bother you if the devs get greedy and try to do some drastic ninja changes to the game you love? You don't give a damn if the company happen to double charge your credit card a couple of times? Whether they deal with hackers, exploiters, and gold spammers or not?

    Well good for you. I think you're with the minority on this one.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member
    Originally posted by Biskop
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    BY FAR the most important thing in a game that is out for me is the game play. If I like the game I play, all other 'offline' aspects of the development team is unimportant to me.

    Dev communication, business practices and honesty NEVER factor into it if I like the game.

     

    OK.. So you don't care about the future and longevity of the game you play? About patching, bugfixing, new content, and coming expansions? It doesn't bother you if the devs get greedy and try to do some drastic ninja changes to the game you love? You don't give a damn if the company happen to double charge your credit card a couple of times? Whether they deal with hackers, exploiters, and gold spammers or not?

    Well good for you. I think you're with the minority on this one.

    NO!

    That is the short answer. The day I stop playing a game is the day I either dont have time or do not enjoy the game play. Under no circumstances whatsoever would I stop playing a game that I like unless its reasons totally not related to the game itself.

     

    I hope that clears things up.

    Maybe I should have said it like I used to a few years ago. 'no I am not going to log off of Darkfall and log into Hello Kitty Online because the Hello Kitty team are more forthcoming on communication'

     

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • DomestoDomesto Faraway, CAPosts: 110Member

    The only thing worth posting in this forum about this game is....

     

    IF YOU BELIEVE ANYTHING TASOS SAYS, YOU ARE AND HAVE BEEN SMOKING CRACK A VERY LONG TIME.

     

    that is all....

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    NO!

    That is the short answer. The day I stop playing a game is the day I either dont have time or do not enjoy the game play. Under no circumstances whatsoever would I stop playing a game that I like unless its reasons totally not related to the game itself.

     

    I hope that clears things up.

    Maybe I should have said it like I used to a few years ago. 'no I am not going to log off of Darkfall and log into Hello Kitty Online because the Hello Kitty team are more forthcoming on communication'

     

    Fair enough, but you don't really seem to grasp the nuances I tried to convey earlier; dev communication and behavior DO affect your gameplay, and thus your enjoyment, no matter how oblivious you are to it. There are numorous examples of devs that either listened to or ignored player feedback, sometimes with long-lasting consequences both for the game in question and for the devs' reputation.

    All MMO evolve during their life cycle, and whether that evolution will bring better or worse gaming experiences (from any perspective) is sometimes hugely dependant on the communication between developer and playerbase. Unless you always trust the devs to provide exactly the gameplay you want and never change the game for the worse, you should probably care about their communication and straightforwardness.

    Caring about the devs' behaviour is caring about the gameplay you enjoy.

     

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAPosts: 2,898Member
    Originally posted by Domesto

    The only thing worth posting in this forum about this game is....

     

    IF YOU BELIEVE ANYTHING TASOS SAYS, YOU ARE AND HAVE BEEN SMOKING CRACK A VERY LONG TIME.

     

    that is all....

    Er, why exactly? The only thing AV is bad about are the ETAs.

    All the features they say they're going to put into a patch/expansion, actually get released.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member
    Originally posted by Garvon3
    Originally posted by Domesto

    The only thing worth posting in this forum about this game is....

     

    IF YOU BELIEVE ANYTHING TASOS SAYS, YOU ARE AND HAVE BEEN SMOKING CRACK A VERY LONG TIME.

     

    that is all....

    Er, why exactly? The only thing AV is bad about are the ETAs.

    All the features they say they're going to put into a patch/expansion, actually get released.

    and the thing is I dont know why anyone even cares.

    I mean I play the game I like and I dont play the game I dont like regardless of what the dev says about it or promises to put in.

    'oh this game is sweet! but you know what? they promised xyz and I dont see it so f8ck it I am going to go play Hello Kitty Online'

    Correlation does not imply causation

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