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Will the success of DayZ propel a AAA Sandbox MMO?

MizzmoMizzmo cabot, ARPosts: 128Member Uncommon

What do you guys think? DayZ is a no quest, completely do it all on your own, no hand holding game. For those of you who don't know what DayZ is...youtube it. Google it. The game is in alpha and 400k or so players have bought the Arma 2 Combined Operations game just to play it. It has made Arma 2 a top selling game for months now.  

What I am getting to, is that a ruthless game with permadeath has become a huge success for a little company called Bohemia. Seeing that there are players who want the open world, sandbox style game (even perma death), does anyone think another company would come out with a AAA Sandbox MMORPG (like Pre-NGE SWG) doing around the same time of think (though permadeath most likely wouldn't be in it)?

What do you guys think? 

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Comments

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    Day Z is not a MMO, which is why perma death works for it. It has no progression other than getting a better gun. It has no stats where you get better at this and that. Ergo you really have little to nothing to lose by dying in Day Z.

     

    If a MMO catches that aspect then yes but then it would be a very shallow MMO. The vast majority doesn't want to work for something then lose it all in a MMO. That's the bottom line.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon

    Perhaps it's just me but what is so sandbox about DayZ? From what I've read and seen it seems more like a free for all online game. Never the less entertaining....but sandbox? just because it has some form of perma-death in a openworld where it's free for all gameplay.

  • tkobotkobo Dunellen, NJPosts: 465Member

    It should but since the major mmop devs are as stupid as bricks,it wont.

     

    It will however help push the developement of indie titles geared toward this.

    http://www.thedeadlinger.com/

    As will kickstarter and other funding systems.And each one thats successful will help highlight how inept the big mmo dev teams are, and slowly draw market share from them.With some luck ,in a decade or so, the clowns like McQuaid will be rightfully looked at with the full contempt theyve earned,and even sites like this one will stop kissing his backside and trying to convince the customer base he isnt a complete screwup.

  • FangrimFangrim PrestonPosts: 589Member
    Originally posted by tkobo

    It should but since the major mmop devs are as stupid as bricks,it wont.

     

    It will however help push the developement of indie titles geared toward this.

    http://www.thedeadlinger.com/

    As will kickstarter and other funding systems.And each one thats successful will help highlight how inept the big mmo dev teams are, and slowly draw market share from them.With some luck ,in a decade or so, the clowns like McQuaid will be rightfully looked at with the full contempt theyve earned,and even sites like this one will stop kissing his backside and trying to convince the customer base he isnt a complete screwup.

     Lets face it,every single MMO they advertise on this site is awesome.....

    Gnome Wankers two.After the events of 18/07/2015 i fucking hate anyone that has anything to do with skyforge
    image

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    Probably not. The ArmaII developer would be crazy to not pursue this within their own product line (they are), but that doesn't mean a sandbox MMORPG needs to come from this.

    It's a persistent setting, a modern setting, there are zombies, and players could run their own DayZ server if they wanted. There have been over half a million unique players, but the concurrent players hover around a hundred and fifty thousand.

    None of this would immediately lead me to believe I need to go out and spend ten million dollars on a sandbox game. Maybe a persistent world shooter in a modern setting with zombies is where it's at. I'd probably go with a Wild West setting, but whatever.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon

    As already pointed out DayZ in not an MMO, it's a FPS so you can't apply the same criteria for game design. It just doesn't suit the MMO genre.

     

    Was Half Life Deathmatch an MMO? No. Did it affect how MMO's were made? No. Same situation with DayZ. I'm really having trouble understanding how so many people can be posting stuff about a 64 seat server FPS game having any relevance to the MMO genre.

     

    Perhaps if more MMOFPS games are developed, like PS2, it may become relevant in a small way. But even then, permadeath in a game that's about character progression (name an MMO that isn't) won't gain much traction. It's great in theory but in practice, people won't buy into it in numbers large enough to make it profitable.

  • NsaigoNsaigo San Diego, CAPosts: 18Member
    Originally posted by tkobo

    It should but since the major mmop devs are as stupid as bricks,it wont.

     

    It will however help push the developement of indie titles geared toward this.

    http://www.thedeadlinger.com/

    As will kickstarter and other funding systems.And each one thats successful will help highlight how inept the big mmo dev teams are, and slowly draw market share from them.With some luck ,in a decade or so, the clowns like McQuaid will be rightfully looked at with the full contempt theyve earned,and even sites like this one will stop kissing his backside and trying to convince the customer base he isnt a complete screwup.

    Actually game devs are alot like politician these days.  Players wants uncompromising quality, but the game devs cannot possibly get that type of funding, especially not for indie developers.  

    What MMORPG devs do these days are simply compromising trying to find a middle ground, but most players don't want a middle ground.

    Players also are often more into more niche games than broadbased MMORPG, but the devs would like a broadbased MMORPG.

     

    It is not that devs are stupid as bricks, it is simply the reality does not allow them to be taking risks and be more creative.  The players are also partly to be blame for encouraging the creation of linear themepark MMORPG.

  • MizzmoMizzmo cabot, ARPosts: 128Member Uncommon

    What I don't think a lot of you who replied understand, is that the game is in Alpha. ALPHA. And it has been selling like crazy. A game with constant bugs and missing features...a game in ALPHA, is doing well.  And this is not just an FPS. Anywho says that hasn't played it much or hasn't played it at all. There are no skills, but you know what you do have to do? Survive. There are a lot of problems with the game but people keep buying the damn game and people keep playing it. 

    What I don't think a lot of you are seeing, is that the game isn't complete.  They are working on adding many more elements to the game.  Those of you who haven't played it have no clue at all what it's about. Granted it's not for everyone, but IT DOES SHOW that there is an audience out there for a sandbox/hardcore game. And yes, it's a sandbox. You can build cars, set up base camps, go hunting for food, scavenge for supplies, fight other people, get sick and die, get your legs broke,  raid other peoples base camps...I mean what is not sandbox about it?

    Just saying....I think it shows that there is an audience for something more than the WoW clone era of AAA games that we live in now.

  • MexorillaMexorilla Las Vegas, NVPosts: 313Member

    i voted no.  DayZ is drumming up awareness and support for an fps.....ARMA3.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    A zombie game maybe, but not a in depth sandbox. Problem is that look at DayZ. Someone with good supplies and at top can have easy pickings of some poor noobs starting in since they have so much power behind them. For it to appeal, there would be more need to have something to gain out of it and as such it could lead to a potential monopoly of power thats difficult to really be over-come. Add in the fact 'you die for good' your pretty much making many people shy away quickly who aren't into that and won't get anywhere. 

     

    Honestly, comparing DayZ to a 'sandbox' is pretty far out. While it is pretty much free, the actual 'sandbox features' people want are extremely few and far between. 

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by Mizzmo

    Just saying....I think it shows that there is an audience for something more than the WoW clone era of AAA games that we live in now.

    I don't think people are disputing that. What people can't seem to agree on is how such a sandbox should be made and what features should or shouldn't be present in order to attract a large crowd.

    What's obvious at least to me is FFA Full loot PvP will never function and be popular in a game centered around any kind of progression styled MMO, focused on stats and the acumilation of wealth/gear, unless said progression is gained very fast and relatively easy.

     

    Oh and the game being in alpha has zero to do with your question really. No idea why you would throw that out there as part of your argument

     

  • Tonin109Tonin109 ??, CAPosts: 201Member

    perma death in a mmo?

    in DayZ  when you die with a lof of stuff you're pissed so imagine the guy who died after 2000 hours of grind

    image

  • MexorillaMexorilla Las Vegas, NVPosts: 313Member
    Originally posted by Tonin109

    perma death in a mmo?

    in DayZ  when you die with a lof of stuff you're pissed so imagine the guy who died after 2000 hours of grind

    AoC had a perma death server.  (i think they still might).  so it's not unheard of.

  • Sora2810Sora2810 New Columbia, PAPosts: 567Member
    Originally posted by Starpower

    Day Z is not a MMO, which is why perma death works for it. It has no progression other than getting a better gun. It has no stats where you get better at this and that. Ergo you really have little to nothing to lose by dying in Day Z.

     

    If a MMO catches that aspect then yes but then it would be a very shallow MMO. The vast majority doesn't want to work for something then lose it all in a MMO. That's the bottom line.

    This is why it's sad. You do realize MMO's cover an extensive amount of branches. I can name a good few MMORPG's which follows the Spawn > Get better items > Perma-Die > repeat track. Progression can come in all shapes and sizes. In a persistant world, a sandbox MMO would be entirely successful so long as developers realize key points;

    1. Not every MMO needs 10 million players. If you structure your game to work for a smaller player-base you will notice; you won't have so many lay-offs and finicial issues.

    2. Grab a player-base and listen to them. One of the reasons that EVE and many others are still around is because they keep their player-base. Don't ignore them and focus on gaining more. While it's good to have new-players, and focus on your front-end experience, never forget those who stand by your side. 

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  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by Sora2810
    Originally posted by Starpower

    Day Z is not a MMO, which is why perma death works for it. It has no progression other than getting a better gun. It has no stats where you get better at this and that. Ergo you really have little to nothing to lose by dying in Day Z.

     

    If a MMO catches that aspect then yes but then it would be a very shallow MMO. The vast majority doesn't want to work for something then lose it all in a MMO. That's the bottom line.

    This is why it's sad. You do realize MMO's cover an extensive amount of branches. I can name a good few MMORPG's which follows the Spawn > Get better items > Perma-Die > repeat track. Progression can come in all shapes and sizes. In a persistant world, a sandbox MMO would be entirely successful so long as developers realize key points;

    1. Not every MMO needs 10 million players. If you structure your game to work for a smaller player-base you will notice; you won't have so many lay-offs and finicial issues.

    2. Grab a player-base and listen to them. One of the reasons that EVE and many others are still around is because they keep their player-base. Don't ignore them and focus on gaining more. While it's good to have new-players, and focus on your front-end experience, never forget those who stand by your side. 

     

    Keep in mind we are discussing a Triple A product and not some indie experiment meant to attract a measily 10 - 20k audience. The whole "by keeping it small" is not really what we are discussing.

  • Tonin109Tonin109 ??, CAPosts: 201Member
    Originally posted by Mexorilla
    Originally posted by Tonin109

    perma death in a mmo?

    in DayZ  when you die with a lof of stuff you're pissed so imagine the guy who died after 2000 hours of grind

    AoC had a perma death server.  (i think they still might).  so it's not unheard of.

    what is the point of death perma in mmo ? for the challenge?

    i dont see the point to go in this server make a toon spend hours and hours  on it and die

    image

  • jacklojacklo BlackpoolPosts: 570Member

     

    The mod is in Alpha, has many bugs, requires the purchase of a game that you probably wouldn't play otherwise and isn't the easiest to install.

    So why on earth has it racked up 666k (17-07-2012) unique players in only a couple of months, with zero marketing?

    This hacked together mess of a game is making a laughing stock of the so-called AAA games because it's giving a certain niche of players exactly what they want. They're willing to ignore everything else going against it because nobody else has had the foresight to realise that people are tired of the WoW clones.

    There is a huge population of burned out MMO vets who are sick of the same old questing, levelling and grinding scenario that is continually re-skinned and labelled NEW.

    The MMO market is wide open for a developer with the balls to break the mold. Unfortunately that won't happen until investors get a clue and realise that the WoW style of MMO has had it's day.

  • MexorillaMexorilla Las Vegas, NVPosts: 313Member
    Originally posted by Tonin109
    Originally posted by Mexorilla
    Originally posted by Tonin109

    perma death in a mmo?

    in DayZ  when you die with a lof of stuff you're pissed so imagine the guy who died after 2000 hours of grind

    AoC had a perma death server.  (i think they still might).  so it's not unheard of.

    what is the point of death perma in mmo ? for the challenge?

    i dont see the point to go in this server make a toon spend hours and hours  on it and die

    yes. challenge.  some people like it.

  • gboostergbooster Indianapolis, INPosts: 712Member

    I really hope it does.

     

    If I were one of the operators of Fallen Earth or on the team for the Fallout MMO, I would insist on special survival servers that copy exactly what Dayz is doing. Especially for a game like Fallen Earth which is barely surviving.. actually I don't even know if that game is still online, but having a specia survival rule set server could really turn it around for a game like that.

    What I'd really like to see is some company make a slick and polished version of Dayz without all the low budget bugs. A modernized, easy to use inventory system would help that game so much. Why make it such a pain in the arse to use your inventory? That's not realism, that's just annoying.

  • silvermembersilvermember saint paul, MNPosts: 531Member
    Originally posted by jacklo

     

    The mod is in Alpha, has many bugs, requires the purchase of a game that you probably wouldn't play otherwise and isn't the easiest to install.

    So why on earth has it racked up 666k (17-07-2012) unique players in only a couple of months, with zero marketing?

    This hacked together mess of a game is making a laughing stock of the so-called AAA games because it's giving a certain niche of players exactly what they want. They're willing to ignore everything else going against it because nobody else has had the foresight to realise that people are tired of the WoW clones.

    There is a huge population of burned out MMO vets who are sick of the same old questing, levelling and grinding scenario that is continually re-skinned and labelled NEW.

    The MMO market is wide open for a developer with the balls to break the mold. Unfortunately that won't happen until investors get a clue and realise that the WoW style of MMO has had it's day.

    There is a huge population the question is is the population big enough that a company AAA company is willing to invest millions? Some people say 666k is a lot but, even on console game having that many people for the most part is considered a failure I doubt a AAA MMORPG company will be excited about it. 

    The good thing about indies is that they  provide certain things that the big companies will not provide. Just like in EVERY aspect of  life. The big companies innovate and so do the little companies. The ma and pa store sometimes offer products that big chains like target and walmart will not provide. Big companies and small companies both need to exist for a reason, but accusing the big companies for not taking unnecessary risk is downright childlike and shows the lack of real understanding.

    To conclude, indies need to exist to create the games that big companies are too afraid because risk != success. Once a good indie game comes out and shows the big companies "hey there is some interest in this genre" then the big companies will follow with a more polish and bigger version.

  • ezduzitezduzit oxnard, CAPosts: 112Member
    Originally posted by Starpower

    Day Z is not a MMO, which is why perma death works for it. It has no progression other than getting a better gun. It has no stats where you get better at this and that. Ergo you really have little to nothing to lose by dying in Day Z.

     

    If a MMO catches that aspect then yes but then it would be a very shallow MMO. The vast majority doesn't want to work for something then lose it all in a MMO. That's the bottom line.

    You missed the point. 

  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts El Do, KSPosts: 1,555Member
    Originally posted by Starpower

    Day Z is not a MMO, which is why perma death works for it. It has no progression other than getting a better gun. It has no stats where you get better at this and that. Ergo you really have little to nothing to lose by dying in Day Z.

     

    If a MMO catches that aspect then yes but then it would be a very shallow MMO. The vast majority doesn't want to work for something then lose it all in a MMO. That's the bottom line.

    The vast majority are fat and lazy, and want their hands held through every moment of the game. They don't want to die period. OBVIOUSLY this game idea would not focus on the lowest common denominator, but I'm sure all the game companies with their plummeting stock prices are doing just fine making stupid games for stupid people.

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by ezduzit
    Originally posted by Starpower

    Day Z is not a MMO, which is why perma death works for it. It has no progression other than getting a better gun. It has no stats where you get better at this and that. Ergo you really have little to nothing to lose by dying in Day Z.

     

    If a MMO catches that aspect then yes but then it would be a very shallow MMO. The vast majority doesn't want to work for something then lose it all in a MMO. That's the bottom line.

    You missed the point. 

    Enlighten me on what I missed

    Was it how an alpha build of a FPS mod won't propel a triple A sandbox MMO, regardless of its popularity? because I think I pretty much covered that aspect.

     

    If you guys want to rant and rave how awesome Day Z is, then that's great and all but you are living in dream land if you think triple A developers, will start making awesome sandbox games because of the mod. Then again whom am I to tell you, there is no Santa Claus, you are free to belive what you want

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by TruthXHurts
    Originally posted by Starpower

    Day Z is not a MMO, which is why perma death works for it. It has no progression other than getting a better gun. It has no stats where you get better at this and that. Ergo you really have little to nothing to lose by dying in Day Z.

     

    If a MMO catches that aspect then yes but then it would be a very shallow MMO. The vast majority doesn't want to work for something then lose it all in a MMO. That's the bottom line.

    The vast majority are fat and lazy, and want their hands held through every moment of the game. They don't want to die period. OBVIOUSLY this game idea would not focus on the lowest common denominator, but I'm sure all the game companies with their plummeting stock prices are doing just fine making stupid games for stupid people.

    Will the success of DayZ propel a AAA Sandbox MMO?

    That was the question. Not "who is butthurt over the current MMO situation". If it was, then your reply would be spot on

     

    For the record, I don't play any MMO currently because they are all the same. Level to max then start the tiered gear grind until expansion then rinse repeat ad nauseum. Just because I want something else doesn't mean I have to drink the coolaid and play makebelief of how the industry works and what to expect from the next generations. I'm a realist

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,665Member Uncommon

    If DayZ can sustain those numbers for 6-9 months and if DayZ can prove to generate revenue beyond an initial box sale then maybe it might prove a viable approach for a niche MMO.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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