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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rich Vogel Out at BioWare, Additional Layoffs Rumored

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  • faefrostfaefrost Atlanta, GAPosts: 199Member

    It's not even that they made a bad game. On the scale of what we have seen that is bad vs great, it's mostly ok. Lacking in end game.

    It's not even that it failed to attract subscribers. SWTOR actually did reasonably decent numbers for an MMO.

    It's that there is no way in hell that any game that is not WoW could ever recoup the astronomical development costs that they poured into the game. Really the entire business plan was literally "we need to steal all of WoW's subscribers, all of them! And keep them paying for at least a year!" That's just not a viable path to profit. They spent an order of magnitude more to make the game then they ever had any hope of getting back. The game could be seen to be a business failure just by looking at the numbers from almost a year before release. 

    Going free to play will not save this or turn it around. While free to play has saved many games, it's not gonna bring back 1/4 to a 1/2 of a billion dollars US in the amount of time they would need to get back the costs. At best they are trying to minimize the losses. But the second some EA accountant figures it is better to take the loss as a tax write off, it's over.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,440Member Uncommon
    4th pillar... I don't think so. Should have spent less on story, more on combat and kept your staff.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common
    Originally posted by Airtaee

     

    Of the different claims EA Louse asserts in the blog, perhaps the most noteworthy is the status ofStar Wars: The Old Republic. According to Louse, more than $300 million has been spent on the game so far.

    "And you know what they're most proud of? This is the kicker," the blog reads. "They are most proud of the sound. No seriously. Something like a 20Gig installation, and most of it is voiceover work. That's the best they have. The rest of the game is a joke. EA knows it and so does George Lucas, they're panicking, and so most of Mythic has already been cannibalized to work in Austin on it because they can't keep pushing back launch."

    Louse then predicts, "Old Republic will be one of the greatest failures in the history of MMOs from EA. Probably at the level of the Sims Online. We all know it too ..."

    And he was right in all. 

    Sadly EA Louse seems to be spot on about the only game I ever preordered a CE for.  $140.00 (I think) would have bought alot of Rum and Coke.

     

    Edit:

    Less PR spin press releases, an apology to the customer is long overdue by EA/Bioware.

     

  • AwDiddumsAwDiddums Great YarmouthPosts: 400Member Uncommon

    I always smile when I read that the smaller workforce will actually bring improved results, more content at a quicker pace. We all know that having fewer ppl means you are now magically possible of doing the work of those that got laid off, haha.

    It's the same with our Military here in the UK, each Government has been reducing the numbers over the years, yet each time they have made redundancies they always tell us "With our new smaller more robust force we are now able to respond to more hotspots around the world" what a load of crap, as if the guys that are left even have the morale to do the job of 10 men.

    Well I guess I'm glad I got out just in time and found myself a new game to call home, rather than sticking it out with this Titanic of a game.

     

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member

    Just note that the layoffs aren't based on the performance of the game, its based on the economy. If they are based on the performance then the word,"fired" would be used.

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    I wonder if Bioware still believes in the fouth pillar...

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • DeaconXDeaconX Toronto, ONPosts: 3,067Member

    I'm sorry it's hard to feel bad...

    They were handed the keys to the most profitable IP in the world and a massive amount of money and SWTOR was the best they could do?

    It's too bad really... I doubt we'll see another try at it for a long long time... if ever.

    image

    Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

    BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common
    Originally posted by Jonoku

    Just note that the layoffs aren't based on the performance of the game, its based on the economy. If they are based on the performance then the word,"fired" would be used.

     

     

    LOL

     

     

     

    Ok

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,532Member Uncommon

    Again as i have said before, trimming the team once the game goes gold is how EA does it, the fact that they do it now indicates that EA consider the majority of work on the core game is done (like fixing major bugs and systems) and the team will perhaps be trimmed down even more depending on how well they set up the development tools. And don't worry to much about the "grunts" being let go. Most of them were hierd on a project basis any way knowing well and good that this day would come sooner or later.

     

    As for the ""this game is a fail to the face" i would disagree. Is it a superb sucess beyond the wildest dreams of any one. No not even by a longshot and as aMMO it had a much higher churn then some of the bigger names in the market. But compared to EA's other MMO's i think it is a winner so far. And the 4:th pillar is pretty much what holds the game up, most people i know who play the game states that the story is what keeps them in the game. Now i can not speak for the end game as i have yet to get there (to many alt's to little time) but who knows it might improve and the game might get a second chance, especially as the majority of gamers out there are not quite as jaded and burnt out as the old crowd here.

     

    Still i am not sure that BioWare was the right people to make a MMO... Their portfolio are mostly bombastic SP RPGs and that is a very different beast. Still it seems that EA can not figure out how to publish a good MMO, if thos is because they mess with stuff they do noe understand or if it is that they have very bad luck with debelopers i do not know

  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Nooo, AKPosts: 1,781Member

    $300 million that could've gone to a needing charity or cancer research.

    Was just speaking to a friend of mine, she said this should've been the 4 key button reply to all dialogue scenes in SW:TOR.
     
    4> "Oh you want me to kill some random shit and gather parts? Never done that before, please explain it in detail, Include the backstory!"
     
    So funny.
  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,532Member Uncommon

    But it would not have gone there any way... .. .

     

    I should also note that i think that SW:ToR is important for the development of the genre as it shows how much you actually can do with story in a MMO, the TSW team is working along the same principle, with a bit more blending then SW:ToR and giving it some more time i think that it will defacto be a part of new MMO's going forward.

  • xmentyxmenty SingaporePosts: 679Member

    Reading SWTOR news is like watching Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares show.

    Why their restaurant business is failing is because the food sucks.

    The one is blinded and arrogant to all this start from the management and above.

    They just refused to listen.

    Same with all these big fail MMO, its either most of these devs are too cocky listening to feedback or

    its all just office politics. 

    Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  • Tedly224Tedly224 Federal Way, WAPosts: 164Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    That is unfortunate. The workers who made the game probably had very little say in the direction, and now they pay the price meanwhile the rich old guys keep making the same bad decisions.

    You hit the nail on the head. Perfect summary.

     

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,141Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.

    Never in my life (50 currently) have played better and more polished and bugfree game with good performance all maxed out. Everything is there, immersion, incredible natural movement of avatars, complex, incredible twists in class quests, fun abilities where nearly every one have use, there is no blind button mashing, .... playing since day 1 and I still log back every day to my 16 alts. Tried virtually all there ... but found only 3 games so far worth every penny of sub, wow, rift and now swtor.

    However i can not judge for pvp or end game as I could not care less. Guess many are not happy there.

  • CoolitCoolit FalkirkPosts: 468Member Uncommon

    No surprise at all.

    SWTOR could have been a great game instead it's turned into the laughing stock of the industry, studios will look at them and say this is what not to do. I guess this confirms the sub numbers are continuing to decline also something that will only get worse once GW2 launches.

    I used to think that even though the game wasn't that great all considered it did have the best voice acting and cut scenes in an mmo but after playing TSW it doesn't even have that anymore.  

  • SaintPhilipSaintPhilip Bree, MIPosts: 713Member
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.

    Never in my life (50 currently) have played better and more polished and bugfree game with good performance all maxed out. Everything is there, immersion, incredible natural movement of avatars, complex, incredible twists in class quests, fun abilities where nearly every one have use, there is no blind button mashing, .... playing since day 1 and I still log back every day to my 16 alts. Tried virtually all there ... but found only 3 games so far worth every penny of sub, wow, rift and now swtor.

    However i can not judge for pvp or end game as I could not care less. Guess many are not happy there.

    Are you joking? You cannot be for real- If you are I appologize and respect your opinion BUT thats a statement I find suspect. How many MMOs have you played?

    I am not discounting your opinion if you really feel this way- We all have different tastes but...

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon

    "to continue to grow the game and the service"

    What? The game never grew in the first place.  The content provided is slow, light and not very good I would say.  Even the devil cannot spin her way out of this one.

  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ehliya

    The problem with MMO these days is that they are so expensive they have to be designed and produced by committee.  Said committee bases it decisions on lowest-common denominator marketing surveys.  Then, to avoid all risk, the suits leech out whatever life and sponteneity remains.  You end up with a colorful husk - a Frankenstein patched together by old retread ideas.

     This is a very good point.  When a committee gets involved you can only agree upon stuff that has been done 1000 times before. (no one wants to take the risk)  The visionaries will be shut down or overruled.  In a bizzare way, the more money thrown at something tends to mean the dumber it becomes.  No one wants to take a new path and risk 100 million dollars. 

    I felt SWTOR copied every other cookie cutter out there and then tried to dress it up in new clothes by using some elements like voice overs. In the end, any gamer can see its the same old sh.t and get turned off.  Waving a rabbit in front of us and yelling 'look at the pretty bunny' doesn't work these days.

    Still feel bad for the crew that lose their jobs.

     

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.

    Never in my life (50 currently) have played better and more polished and bugfree game with good performance all maxed out. Everything is there, immersion, incredible natural movement of avatars, complex, incredible twists in class quests, fun abilities where nearly every one have use, there is no blind button mashing, .... playing since day 1 and I still log back every day to my 16 alts. Tried virtually all there ... but found only 3 games so far worth every penny of sub, wow, rift and now swtor.

    However i can not judge for pvp or end game as I could not care less. Guess many are not happy there.

    Are you joking? You cannot be for real- If you are I appologize and respect your opinion BUT thats a statement I find suspect. How many MMOs have you played?

    I am not discounting your opinion if you really feel this way- We all have different tastes but...

    it depends a lot on your taste in MMO's, that SW;TOR isnt universally liked is an understatement, but it isnt a really bad game, it just isnt a 'great' one, at least, not to the degree that i suspect EA/Bioware/LA would have liked, and were likely promised.. but just being an 'okay' game isnt really enough these days, having said that though, i have seen a great many far worse ones.. and the SW;TOR that was released is not the game you see today either, somebody in there was listening because they have been fixing things, so i wouldnt say that Bioware isnt listening to the players, it might just be that they were forced to push the game out the door before they were completely ready, at least, the game now has features that it most definitely needed at launch.image

  • IllyssiaIllyssia LondonPosts: 1,524Member
    Originally posted by jeremyjodes

     

    In The end of this firing tree trimming a new vision for the game will be born and there is nothing you can do to stop it but sve your sub money and wait it out.

     

    You really are fantasy role playing your postings. Rich Vogel resigned, he wasn't fired, and in fact left Bioware back in June after the restructuring plan was made public in May. While Pokket interviewed him early June, he didn't use it to announce his resignation or comment on the restructuring at Bioware.  

    So really no news. Bioware/EA are simply continuing with their direction announced in May, and SWTOR will have a lot of new content patched into it later on in the year.

     

     

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,532Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by tawess

    Again as i have said before, trimming the team once the game goes gold is how EA does it, the fact that they do it now indicates that EA consider the majority of work on the core game is done (like fixing major bugs and systems) and the team will perhaps be trimmed down even more depending on how well they set up the development tools. And don't worry to much about the "grunts" being let go. Most of them were hierd on a project basis any way knowing well and good that this day would come sooner or later.

     

    As for the ""this game is a fail to the face" i would disagree. Is it a superb sucess beyond the wildest dreams of any one. No not even by a longshot and as aMMO it had a much higher churn then some of the bigger names in the market. But compared to EA's other MMO's i think it is a winner so far. And the 4:th pillar is pretty much what holds the game up, most people i know who play the game states that the story is what keeps them in the game. Now i can not speak for the end game as i have yet to get there (to many alt's to little time) but who knows it might improve and the game might get a second chance, especially as the majority of gamers out there are not quite as jaded and burnt out as the old crowd here.

     

    Still i am not sure that BioWare was the right people to make a MMO... Their portfolio are mostly bombastic SP RPGs and that is a very different beast. Still it seems that EA can not figure out how to publish a good MMO, if thos is because they mess with stuff they do noe understand or if it is that they have very bad luck with debelopers i do not know

    [mod edit]

    I don't think you read it right,,, did you read the rest...? 

    ". No not even by a longshot and as aMMO it had a much higher churn then some of the bigger names in the market."

    [mod edit]

  • NyrujoNyrujo Ardsley, NYPosts: 6Member
    Originally posted by causs
    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.

    Exactly. Even if the game was good, it felt old even at release. BioWare definitely forgot to actually look at a shifting genre. Instead they copied succesful older games without any vision.

    Exactly! I don't understand how after all these years Bioware still insists on remaking KOTOR into EVERY GAME they make. Sure, in an RPG like Dragon Age I can understand those semi-cinematic interactions with npcs but SW:TOR is an MMO. The amount of interactions with NPCs in this genre of game should have been a serious flag. Instead they fully copied it so you spent more time "talking" then completing quests and my personal pet peeve was being in PUGs with delinquents forcing me to go dark on the group stuff. Group interactions hurt more than helped your character progression imo.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,117Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SaintPhilip
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.

    Never in my life (50 currently) have played better and more polished and bugfree game with good performance all maxed out. Everything is there, immersion, incredible natural movement of avatars, complex, incredible twists in class quests, fun abilities where nearly every one have use, there is no blind button mashing, .... playing since day 1 and I still log back every day to my 16 alts. Tried virtually all there ... but found only 3 games so far worth every penny of sub, wow, rift and now swtor.

    However i can not judge for pvp or end game as I could not care less. Guess many are not happy there.

    Are you joking? You cannot be for real- If you are I appologize and respect your opinion BUT thats a statement I find suspect. How many MMOs have you played?

    I am not discounting your opinion if you really feel this way- We all have different tastes but...

    I agree with him and completely disagree with you, [mod edit]

    image
  • hikaru77hikaru77 buenos airesPosts: 1,035Member Uncommon

    The hate around swtor is just epic, and mostly from people who is not even playing the game. http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/  over 2.37 mill of copies, probably more than 3 mill by the end of the year, just a quiestion for all the people talking about the fail of swtor, how many p2p MMO had sold over 1 mill of copies in 6 months after launch in the last 10 years? no talking about WoW.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    I agree with him and completely disagree with you, guess that makes you the delusional one, huh?

    Yeah, it is getting ridiculous.


    SWTOR is the top quality MMO ever made. You might not like the game, you might hate it, it might have been too expensive for EA to make but denying the obvious and where credit is due is just foolish.

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