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Good game, just too short

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  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Dickweed71

    lets  wait (search)  for the holy grail   -be it themepark  or sandbox / themebox or sandpark-  MMO game.

    Im sure its around the corner waitng to be released -.-..........

     

    I feel sorry for ArenaNet.  Their game is amazing, but they will have threads like this ten fold just from the sheer volume of players it's going to have.

    I agree, the amount of people that will playing that game is probably huge. The content for it is probably the same(or less) as all of the recent releases and folks have complained for those, so I expect a BUNCH of threads on the matter. The only thing I have to say to that though is that is a b2p game, which to me makes a BIG difference. 

    I also expect many to still enjoy it because of its pvp. I know everyone wont accept that because not everyone likes pvp, but for the ones that do it can be the big difference for this game and were longetivity stands.

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  • GargolaGargola Panama, FLPosts: 356Member
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Dickweed71

    lets  wait (search)  for the holy grail   -be it themepark  or sandbox / themebox or sandpark-  MMO game.

    Im sure its around the corner waitng to be released -.-..........

     

    I feel sorry for ArenaNet.  Their game is amazing, but they will have threads like this ten fold just from the sheer volume of players it's going to have.

    Which is horrible, cause now making a good game is not enough, you will get flamed anyway.

    People don't seem to be able to grasp the idea that a game can be good, but really not to his own particular preferences.

    People don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that there could be two, or more, good games.

    It seems  all comes down to just how much flaming and putting down people can give any given game, just cause.

     

    Way to encourage those that are at least trying to deviate from the cookie cutter and trying to make good games at the same time.  And that's the same people that keeps mouthing they want "new" stuff, better stuff, better games, innovation and a lot more blah.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by colddog04

    PvP is the best option for me as well. I can PvP till my eyes bleed. And you're right that there haven't been a whole lot of great PvP offerings of late.

    Not really the topic.  PvP is not PvE.  That's a different discussion as a whole. 

    It is a topic about longevity. PvP adds longevity.

    PvP is a different type of game and playstyle.  TSW has PvP and it's pretty good.  It's just not GW2 good.  The problem is what people think a MMORPG is and what they expect from it.  Honestly if every game needs to focus on PvP, then LOL is a MMORPG.  What's the point of making PvE stuff then?  There isn't one.  The two can't coexist.  That's the truth that no player or developer wants to admit.  The OP is critiquing the game is too short because of the PvE content.  Has nothing to do with PvP offering TSW has now or could have in the future.  Different things entirely.

     

    Umm, I never said every MMO needs to focus on PvP, I said it helps add longevity. And for me and many others, it does. Some people don't even like PvP at all. For them it would not add longevity. Besides that, I listed like 10 things other than PvP.

     

    PvP ladder systems

    Achievement system that is interesting and rewarding

    Collection systems (ala EQ2)

    Housing or decorating systems

    Non-essential side games like fishing, jumping puzzles, etc.

    Personal aesthetics tends to be another popular system to keep people interested

    Raid/dungeon content

    Gear grind

    Crafting systems

    Occasional in game events

    Holiday events

     

     

    The idea that PvP has nothing to do with helping to extend the life of content is bunk. If he had spent 130 hours PvPing and 130 hours PvEing, he would have been complaining in another 18 days about there not being enough content instead of today. It helps for people that like it. And they do not necessarily have to be two separate conversations.

     

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by grapevine

     

    Op isn't even critiquing the game on is PvE content, just the bits he wants to do.

     

    PvE and PvP content can coexist very well, and has done in many a sandbox and themepark MMOs.    Hardcore PvP (i.e. corpse looting, peradeath, etc) however I'd agree can't, unless its isolated areas.

     Yeah, I have to agree. Wanne keep me long term? Have a good mixture of PvP/PvE available. That will probably keep me playing your game the longest. Add in regular updates and chances are I'll stick around for...god who knows how long if the quality of the updates is good on top of the gameplay already available.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Dickweed71

    lets  wait (search)  for the holy grail   -be it themepark  or sandbox / themebox or sandpark-  MMO game.

    Im sure its around the corner waitng to be released -.-..........

     

    I feel sorry for ArenaNet.  Their game is amazing, but they will have threads like this ten fold just from the sheer volume of players it's going to have.

     You are going to see this same exact topic crop up over there amongst the other usual complaints. Probably a lot more due to the sheer amount of players that game will have.

    You simply cannot please some or have enough content that will stop some with ample time or intensity in their hobby the ability to burn through.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon

    I think you'll see it more with GW2 because it'll probably take a lot less time to hit 80 than 134 hours.

  • KroxMalonKroxMalon swindonPosts: 409Member

    I dont play this game, I probably wont. But god I cant stand this sort of thing.

    OP sounds like he just single player face rolled through the main story arc. Its a MMORPG for goodness sakes, play it like one.

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,354Member Uncommon

    right now the pvp is a joke , seriously i dont know anyone who pvp's seriously can think the secret world has good pvp. Fusang is dead on my server as its just run away from the enemy and ninja cap. When you have elite skills that let players die and still kill with damage increases for like 5 seconds after they die or stun locks on weapons disarming people for 5 seconds who wants to pvp that way. In before BCbully tells us how stupid we are...

  • nGumbeinGumbei New York, NYPosts: 33Member

    Well, I haven´t read all the comments, of course so sorry if anything I am saying is '' repeated ''. I have played TSW and am still playing for sure and as an experienced MMO-gamer since 12 years, I can actually notice the game´s core, which is something that other have already noticed long time ago.

    TSW is a really a great and unique game, however, it is still really focus on story-line just like SWTOR.  I fully agree, that TSW does it better however, sooner or later, the sotry-line will be done and in this case, u will prob not have much to do. The game´s combat, pvp and even pve aren´t, at all, in same quality as the story-line and the interesting missions. Which means, that people may slowly leave the game after completing the main sotry-line. I can´t really see any different between this and TOR. I am not talking about the quality about the concept. The problem for the both games is simply the same: When the sotry is done, the other content may not be in the quality that keep u playing. I understand that there will be updates, but .. that won´t be enough. You will still need something that will attach u to the game ignoring the sotry-line. This is the problem in my opinion and that´s basiaclly why I didn´t do a life-time sub.

    TSW is a really interesting game that I really loved. However, it is really similar to TOR and will end up pretty fastly compared to other games like WoW ( vanilla ) that focus on open world more than story-line .. because there´s simply no end to the experience if the world was really open but  every story, on the other hand, has an end.

    Thank you for the thread :)

    This is a personal opinion btw so chill out and have a nice day ;)

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by colddog04

    PvP is the best option for me as well. I can PvP till my eyes bleed. And you're right that there haven't been a whole lot of great PvP offerings of late.

    Not really the topic.  PvP is not PvE.  That's a different discussion as a whole. 

    It is a topic about longevity. PvP adds longevity.

    PvP is a different type of game and playstyle.  TSW has PvP and it's pretty good.  It's just not GW2 good.  The problem is what people think a MMORPG is and what they expect from it.  Honestly if every game needs to focus on PvP, then LOL is a MMORPG.  What's the point of making PvE stuff then?  There isn't one.  The two can't coexist.  That's the truth that no player or developer wants to admit.  The OP is critiquing the game is too short because of the PvE content.  Has nothing to do with PvP offering TSW has now or could have in the future.  Different things entirely.

     

    I think PVP and PVE can exist side-by-side in the same game.

     

    HOWEVER, it would take a very talented (and possibly well-funded) development team to create PVP and PVE in one game with the same quality as the PVE or PVP in other games that are more focused on either of those.

     

    It comes down to resources at the end of the day. Any dev team has a limited budget, so a decision has to be made where that budget is spent. TSW's initial focus is undeniably story/lore and PVE oriented. Just looking at the content at launch makes it abundantly clear where the dev team focused their efforts.

     

    FC will most likely expand the PVP options, perhaps even revamp it, but I doubt that there'll be a major shift toward PVP while Ragnar is heading the team. At any rate, I doubt there'll be major changes/improvements to PVP in the timespan that is currently demanded by players (i.e. 6 to 8 weeks at most).

     

    GW2 launches in roughly 4 weeks' time, and anyone that has a serious liking for PVP will be migrating there. They may or may not stay there, but they will go and try it out for a month or two at the very least. FC are not going to be able to make significant changes or improvements to PVP in 4 weeks, so that scenario is pretty much a given.

     

    But if FC use the next 3-4 months to give the PVP side some love, they may be able to roll out something reasonably attractive to tempt back those players who actually enjoyed TSW, but found the PVP very lacking.

  • Pumuckl71Pumuckl71 istanbulPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by colddog04

    PvP is the best option for me as well. I can PvP till my eyes bleed. And you're right that there haven't been a whole lot of great PvP offerings of late.

    Not really the topic.  PvP is not PvE.  That's a different discussion as a whole. 

    It is a topic about longevity. PvP adds longevity.

    PvP is a different type of game and playstyle.  TSW has PvP and it's pretty good.  It's just not GW2 good.  The problem is what people think a MMORPG is and what they expect from it.  Honestly if every game needs to focus on PvP, then LOL is a MMORPG.  What's the point of making PvE stuff then?  There isn't one.  The two can't coexist.  That's the truth that no player or developer wants to admit.  The OP is critiquing the game is too short because of the PvE content.  Has nothing to do with PvP offering TSW has now or could have in the future.  Different things entirely.

     

     

    Op isn't even critiquing the game on is PvE content, just the bits he wants to do.

     

    PvE and PvP content can coexist very well, and has done in many a sandbox and themepark MMOs.    Hardcore PvP (i.e. corpse looting, peradeath, etc) however I'd agree can't, unless its isolated areas.

    ok outta curiosity   pvp ....pve  coexisting  without  massive ammount of bitching ..what games ? i only know  one and that was the old guild wars ...but that had no body loot ect 

    and isnt  sandbox  automaticly connected to hardcore pvp most of the time  ?

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dickweed71
    Originally posted by grapevine

     

    Op isn't even critiquing the game on is PvE content, just the bits he wants to do.

     

    PvE and PvP content can coexist very well, and has done in many a sandbox and themepark MMOs.    Hardcore PvP (i.e. corpse looting, peradeath, etc) however I'd agree can't, unless its isolated areas.

    ok outta curiosity   pvp ....pve  coexisting  without  massive ammount of bitching ..what games ? i only know  one and that was the old guild wars ...but that had no body loot ect 

    and isnt  sandbox  automaticly connected to hardcore pvp most of the time  ?

    Everyone bitches in every game about everything [mod edit]. It's whether or not their bitching has a leg to stand on that matters. Bitching quality if you will.

  • GargolaGargola Panama, FLPosts: 356Member

    There's no need for Pvp in order for people to bitch in a game.  And there's no need for "hardcore" Pvp with perma-death and corpse looting for Pvp to be good.

  • Pumuckl71Pumuckl71 istanbulPosts: 121Member

    @colddog ;

    cmon you know exactly what i mean ...when the shit between "carebears" and  "Warbears" hits the fan.

    couple o game got crushed under that pressure

  • GargolaGargola Panama, FLPosts: 356Member
    Originally posted by Dickweed71

    @colddog ;

    cmon you know exactly what i mean ...when the shit between "carebears" and  "Warbears" hits the fan.

    couple o game got crushed under that pressure

    If a game got crushed by that bickering, for sure it had other issues.

  • Br3akingDawnBr3akingDawn a City, CAPosts: 1,359Member Uncommon

    people rush thru a game and compain its too short.

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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dickweed71

    @colddog ;

    cmon you know exactly what i mean ...when the shit between "carebears" and  "Warbears" hits the fan.

    couple o game got crushed under that pressure

    Like Warhammer or something?

     

    I think the community usually decides whether or not a PvP system is good or not. If in GW2 for instance, some serious PvPers that people respect get into it and tell everyone how great it is, more people might jump on board. If some serious PvPers that people respect get into it and tell everyone how flawed the system is and why, a bunch of people might jump ship.

     

    It's all really subjective anyway. Some people won't play a game like GW2 or TSW because it has instanced BG style PvP and they only like open world FFA. GW2 takes a more WoW-Arena mixed with DAoC RvR approach. TSW takes a more WoW BG approach with it's own persistent zone PvP. 

     

    Arguments will never end about preferences. As long as the arguments remain healthy and people are able to analyze the various characteristics, I think games that deserve to get buried will be buried and games that deserve credit will get credit.

  • Pumuckl71Pumuckl71 istanbulPosts: 121Member

    what you wash aside as bickering is for some ....especially smaller Devs the only source of input  they can get

    Only the big ones have the luxury of ignoring ....and even then only till to certain point

  • GargolaGargola Panama, FLPosts: 356Member
    Originally posted by Dickweed71

    what you wash aside as bickering is for some ....especially smaller Devs the only source of input  they can get

    Only the big ones have the luxury of ignoring ....and even then only till to certain point

    If devs take PvP/PvE bickering as feedback, then they need to learn better.

     

    Anyone with any sort of experience in the MMO world, as a gamer or developer knows that most of the forum wars and participants are not representative, for real, of the majority of players.

  • Pumuckl71Pumuckl71 istanbulPosts: 121Member

    youre right  to a certain point  you know it i know it , but the buisnessman /developer  in general hasnt much choice

    in that matter .. reliable or not ...thats  their source of getting feedback. And  a  community manager  has to evaluate

    the voice of that source in order  to give a picture of  the popularity of the game in general  and what can be done to better its success

     

    edit im done for today ...tired ...have fun discussing 

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,250Member Uncommon

    From what I experienced, and knowing the number of zones left, I'd say there's plenty of content for one run-through.  Keep in mind it was never meant to be enough to get you maxxed in all weapons in the end, or even close.  You should be able to do pretty near anything you want with 2-3 weapons, or be competent in all of them, or somewhere in between.

    Replayability is close to zero, though.  Altered context for about 5-8% of the missions isn't really worth replaying another character.  Since faction doesn't really matter at all beyond that...

    I've heard the arguments about there being an adequate endgame.  They all sound pretty familiar.   As in DCUO, TOR... both games which I liked but fell off a cliff despite all the investigations, holochrons, daily silliness at the end.  We'll see.

     

  • DreddeDredde HaugesundPosts: 28Member

    Good thing theyll come with new content each month then. And working out bugs fast :) And you know about all the events and summoned bosses? Doesnt seem so.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dickweed71

    youre right  to a certain point  you know it i know it , but the buisnessman /developer  in general hasnt much choice

    in that matter .. reliable or not ...thats  their source of getting feedback. And  a  community manager  has to evaluate

    the voice of that source in order  to give a picture of  the popularity of the game in general  and what can be done to better its success

     

    edit im done for today ...tired ...have fun discussing 

    Forum whining is not the only source of feedback for the dev's, thankfully.

     

    Monitoring ingame activity is a far better source. By looking at what players are actually doing ingame, dev's get a fairly accurate view of the overall state of the game. That's why the loud yelling of a small group is often ignored, much to their frustration.

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    Originally posted by Dickweed71

    Originally posted by grapevine
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by colddog04

    PvP is the best option for me as well. I can PvP till my eyes bleed. And you're right that there haven't been a whole lot of great PvP offerings of late.

    Not really the topic.  PvP is not PvE.  That's a different discussion as a whole. 

    It is a topic about longevity. PvP adds longevity.

    PvP is a different type of game and playstyle.  TSW has PvP and it's pretty good.  It's just not GW2 good.  The problem is what people think a MMORPG is and what they expect from it.  Honestly if every game needs to focus on PvP, then LOL is a MMORPG.  What's the point of making PvE stuff then?  There isn't one.  The two can't coexist.  That's the truth that no player or developer wants to admit.  The OP is critiquing the game is too short because of the PvE content.  Has nothing to do with PvP offering TSW has now or could have in the future.  Different things entirely.

     

     

    Op isn't even critiquing the game on is PvE content, just the bits he wants to do.

     

    PvE and PvP content can coexist very well, and has done in many a sandbox and themepark MMOs.    Hardcore PvP (i.e. corpse looting, peradeath, etc) however I'd agree can't, unless its isolated areas.

    ok outta curiosity   pvp ....pve  coexisting  without  massive ammount of bitching ..what games ? i only know  one and that was the old guild wars ...but that had no body loot ect 

    and isnt  sandbox  automaticly connected to hardcore pvp most of the time  ?

     

    SWG for one, and don't confuse the vocal minority with the average player. Also a sandbox is not automatically connected to hardcore pvp. For example the most sandbox game around is Second Life. It doesn't even have an in built combat system, and after players built a few they aren't heavily used.

    Even games like WOW don't have that much REAL bitching. Bitching usually comes from those that don't understand it can't be balanced on a 1 on 1 basis, and that is no matter the game.
  • SarykSaryk Tallulah, LAPosts: 476Member

    I have 108 hours (Raptr) on TSW. So $35.99 divided by 108 = 33c,per hour. I just got to Eygpt and did not do everything on the island.

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