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General: Killing Your Faction Softly

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,595MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

One of the cardinal rules of any MMO is that only opposite factions can kill one another. But it's a hard cruel fact that sometimes, folks in your own faction tick you off. In today's column, we pontificate about how nice it would be to take out some of those people. Read on!

Have you ever been in an instanced PvP match and one player decides to badmouth the rest of his team and completely ignore the objectives of the map, sometimes even resorting to helping the other team? Ever been in a raid and some noob warlock joins your PUG group and pulls the boss, gets the raid wiped, laughs, and then leaves?

Yeah, me too.

Read more of Hillary Nicole's Pokket Says: Killing Your Faction Softly.

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Comments

  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    Lol, this is so true.. I have a friend in wow is main purpose is to cause a hard time on anyone, same faction or not..

    Ask him why he does it, that's his kick he says.. The game is much more enjoying when almost everyone hates you..

    funny thing, he's a very good player, but outside of group efforts, he's a pain.. Heck I even tried to follow, but I can't do it for long..
  • JazKW347JazKW347 Vandalia, OHPosts: 54Member

    This is a reason why I hate most people. I actually would like to see such a button in games, it may actually deter people from being @$*holes, but the problem is if you can only use it once perday, the person could still harass you after you've used it once, and the user wont be able to get the proverbial monkey off their back for 24 hours.

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  • RaventreeRaventree Yourtown, MNPosts: 456Member

    I also wish their was a "punish jerk" button, but it just isn't possible.  You know the first thing that would happen is you would join a raid, someone would view your spec and tell you that you have a point out of place and you need to fix it immediately.  The second you don't agree to rearrange your whole spec on the spot, BAM, you have just been jerk punished.  They then laugh and boot you from the raid. 

    Here is another scenario.  I was by myself questing and this ranger shows up in the area and invites me to a group.  I decline because he hasn't spoken to me and I am just finishing up my quest.  He says "WTF??" and then proceeds to pull half a dozen mobs and use one of his abilities to pass the aggro to me.  I don't even have a chance to run and I died.  I was SO pissed that I wanted to fly out to his house Jay and Silent Bob style and bodyslam him off the front porch.  He could have just as easily hit the "punish jerk" button on me because I wanted to solo quietly, or worse, gotten me killed and THEN jerk punished me for extra harassment.

    I would love a punish jerk button, but in the hands of those jerks it would just be another tool of harassment.

    Currently playing:
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    Played:
    SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
    World of Warcraft, AoC

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    I can't stand these folks either but don't see how your idea would make things any better. I can definitely see how same of those same wonderful folk could use that for griefing purposes adding a whole new level of frustration.

    Best to just blacklist them although with cross server dungeon finders it does make holding these shmucks accountable for their actions hard to accomplish. 

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Nice article.

    The title got this stuck in my head.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKOtzIo-uYw

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    You ever read the story about the video game guy flips his wig and halls off and beats someone up irl or worse? The jerks you want to one button are just searching for some way to get that guy going in game for thier own entertainment. In the failadins mind he knows he just burnt you, and he also knows your the type that's going to flip your wig, I mean you waited 10 hours for that spawn anyhow, there is no doubt you got a few screws loose.
  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon

    Before DAoC you could do this easily, because there were no factions, as far as factions are known  today. The guilds were the factions and people made names for themselves on the servers.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • Mike-McQueenMike-McQueen Enfield, CTPosts: 243Member
    Which is why you should be able to same side pk. It'd be easy enough to add a command to turn a friend into an enemy and then either you'd have your revenge or you'd at least see them in red a mile away.

    I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  • TanemundTanemund Orange, CTPosts: 102Member Uncommon

    Real life has griefers.  Those people who whip into the parking space you've been waiting for, people cut in line, people take all the free samples, people eat food that isn't theirs in the lunch room refrigerator, people go on welfare rather than get a job, people get lost in online worlds rather than call their RL buddies.  I'm sure everyone has wished they had a gun so they could shoot those people from time to time, but you don't because normal people don't shoot other people over parking lots.

     

    There are griefers in video games, but they only have as much control over you as you allow them to have.  At least in video gaming you can log out and go do something else rather than getting your blood pressure up.  Maybe real life needs a "Logout" button more than video games need a "Vaporize Azzhat" button.

     

    [mod edit]

     

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  • SomeOldBlokeSomeOldBloke Lancaster, UKPosts: 2,141Member Uncommon

    Thats the great thing about battlefield, you may not be able to shoot your  team but a grenade, c4 or a well place rpg will make a building fall on their head!! 1 <3 C4.

  • CyclopsSlayerCyclopsSlayer Minneapolis, MNPosts: 532Member

    It would be abused, yes. But damn it would be so satisfying.

    Battleground AFK'ers? POP! @$$hat training your party? POP! Ninja-looter? POP!

     

    One of the reasons I am looking forward to ArcheAge, and liked UO and such in the past, is you CAN cap your own factions fools, with penalties in AA sure, but they might get the message sooner or later...

  • AthisioAthisio spring, PAPosts: 72Member

    Good article. After reading i had to wonder why your video's don't have the fluidness of your articles.

  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Bellingham, WAPosts: 688Member

    Factions are dumb ideas in MMORPG anyway.  FFA games are much better since everything is run by guilds, and they can assign punishment as desired in very horrific and creative ways.  Faction MMORPG's are really like a baby version of real MMORPGs.  What is the point of factions anyway?  To force some people to be friends?  What if those people are jerks?  Well then you get situations described by Pokket.  The solution is to NEVER PLAY A FACTION MMORPG EVER AGAIN!!!  People have been saying this for years and yet we still get tons of faction based mmorpgs.  If you get griefed on one of these faction mmorpgs then you deserve it since you should have known better.

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  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    Factions are dumb ideas in MMORPG anyway.  FFA games are much better since everything is run by guilds, and they can assign punishment as desired in very horrific and creative ways.  Faction MMORPG's are really like a baby version of real MMORPGs.  What is the point of factions anyway?  To force some people to be friends?  What if those people are jerks?  Well then you get situations described by Pokket.  The solution is to NEVER PLAY A FACTION MMORPG EVER AGAIN!!!  People have been saying this for years and yet we still get tons of faction based mmorpgs.  If you get griefed on one of these faction mmorpgs then you deserve it since you should have known better.

    Factions are there to provide a storied ideology to the conflict.

    If you were going to have a WW II game would you have lots of small warring city states or would it be axis against allies? Which of course are factions.

    If you were going to have a game based on ancient greece you would have warring city states. Those city states "could" be guilds but they can also represent many different factions.

    It has nothing to do with "being a baby mmo" and more to do with defining the conflict and the ideology that goes along with that conflict.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Axiom: any tool to combat griefing is a tool to inflict griefing.

    Now what would be interesting is to see algorithms that could subdivide factions into like-minded communities just by examining ignore lists.  It would be a lot like the algorithms facebook uses to find friends, but instead it would use ignore lists to calculate likely antipathy levels and just automatically phase out different subcultures/personality types that aren't likely to get along. 

     

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    Wow's guild finder, forums, and guild sites open the door for you to find the right group to chill with, gm's just need to get away from the more is better idealogy. You could engineer that in with a 100 player cap on guild memberships. More players per guild or more guilds per realm, or more factions, how about open world guild vs guild duels with more than bragging rights at stake.
  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts El Do, KSPosts: 1,555Member

    That's why SWG was the best... You could put bounties on your fellow Faction members, and if you were a BH you could hunt them and say. "Just doin my job."

     

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts El Do, KSPosts: 1,555Member
    Originally posted by Tanemund

    Real life has griefers.  Those people who whip into the parking space you've been waiting for, people cut in line, people take all the free samples, people eat food that isn't theirs in the lunch room refrigerator, people go on welfare rather than get a job, people get lost in online worlds rather than call their RL buddies.  I'm sure everyone has wished they had a gun so they could shoot those people from time to time, but you don't because normal people don't shoot other people over parking lots.

     

    There are griefers in video games, but they only have as much control over you as you allow them to have.  At least in video gaming you can log out and go do something else rather than getting your blood pressure up.  Maybe real life needs a "Logout" button more than video games need a "Vaporize Azzhat" button.

     

    [mod edit]

     
     

    I want to shoot all the judgemental people who have a self inflated sense of righteousness.

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • AnirethAnireth Posts: 599Member Uncommon

    A button to deal with those people would be neat, but it's impossible to avoid abuse, and abuse of such a button would be even more annoying then what those people do, so you would need another button to punish those people, which in turn would obviously get abused..

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  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member

    FFA is fine, Faction v Faction is fine. Faction v Faction v Faction is fine.

     

    What I would like to see;

    Faction v faction v Faction with the ability to still attack your own faction. Pressing a button down to engage in same faction pvp etc. Thank god ArcheAge is coming....

     

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • frankcfwufrankcfwu Burnaby, BCPosts: 1Member

    Lol is the last pic from Corum online?

  • TanemundTanemund Orange, CTPosts: 102Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TruthXHurts
    Originally posted by Tanemund

    Real life has griefers.  Those people who whip into the parking space you've been waiting for, people cut in line, people take all the free samples, people eat food that isn't theirs in the lunch room refrigerator, people go on welfare rather than get a job, people get lost in online worlds rather than call their RL buddies.  I'm sure everyone has wished they had a gun so they could shoot those people from time to time, but you don't because normal people don't shoot other people over parking lots.

     

    There are griefers in video games, but they only have as much control over you as you allow them to have.  At least in video gaming you can log out and go do something else rather than getting your blood pressure up.  Maybe real life needs a "Logout" button more than video games need a "Vaporize Azzhat" button.

     

    Of course you could just do drugs and log out of real life that way, but that has it's own set of problems.

     
     

    [mod edit]

     

     

    Ah, proof positive that nerd rage knows no bounds.  Consider yourself "trolled" IRL.

     

    Look on the bright side.  With a board name like that you shouldn't have any trouble figuring out where to start your little shooting spree.  Remember, screenshots or it never happened!

     

    Here's wishing you a steady hand and true aim! 

     

    Can i have ur stuffz?

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  • AtibraAtibra Seattle, WAPosts: 65Member

    The real solution is to come up with a weighted reputation system - allowing the playerbase to govern themselves.

    Basically, everyones reputation starts off at "neutral", or 0 points.

    When you interact with others in the game, similiar to the system that social networking systems use - they can thumbs up or thumbs down you, moving your reputation counter appropriately.

    On the surface, a game could simply allow people to see each others reputation - and thus you'd know if you were getting into a group with a troll or a well reputable player.

    A game could take this farther by implementing penelties and benefits based upon your reputation - i.e. NPCs within the game would grant different prices, different rewards, different quests, make players attackable by other players etc.. based upon your reputation.

    Obviously, at a basic level this is abuseable - large groups of associated individuals (guilds, friends etc..) could tank or elevate a persons reputation...

    However, this is why the system would need to be weighted , and include a number of different variables - a few being:

    - Did you actually interact with the person affecting your reputation? (to address the situation where Bob harasses Molly, and then Molly tells her guild of 200 people to all downvote Bob... none of the other 199 members have had any interaction wth Bob and thus should not be able to affect his reptutation)

    - Repeat voting: You should only be able to +1 or -1 a person a single time. However, you should be able to change your vote at any time. Meaning, Bob harasses Molly and Molly downvotes Bob. Bob apologizes profusely though, and explains it was a misunderstanding and helps Molly gain 2 levels as penance.. Molly can chose to remove vote completely, or change vote to a +1.

    - The gaming company would probably need to implement a checks/balances system as well - if a particular characters rating spiked or plummeted on a certain day, their name should boil up to the top of some back end report and the support agents should do a brief scrub to identify potential abuse.. this would allow for long term improvement of the system.

     

    I could go on and list a ton of variables, but just wanted to give a general idea... am really surprised with the number of social media sites and rating systems that exist in the world that no game has really tried to this yet. I know there have been some threads on various game forums about similiar suggestions.. but have yet to see an MMO implement it.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    NO

     

    Killing your faction makes no sense, why even have factions in the first place.  Then the game devolves into a sado-masochist freak show.  FFA PvP should never be in an MMO.  If you really want it then go play some of those failed MMO's that feature it.

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  • NepharriusNepharrius New York, NYPosts: 3Member

    On my wow server, same faction idiots get flamed in trade chat - seems to keep the bad behavior down -- for a few mins anyway.  As for afk'ers in the bg's you get ported out now.  Still, being able to nuke them when they're not looking would be a nice, and satisfying option. 

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