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Originally posted by GTwander Says the guy that want's "proof" of bribes. Why don't I dig up the Deep Throat tapes while I'm at it.
Go for it.
Don't say anything you can't back up.
Originally posted by Zook81 Originally posted by GTwander Says the guy that want's "proof" of bribes. Why don't I dig up the Deep Throat tapes while I'm at it.
I love how concerned folk go out of their way to defend organizations that hold up a ruse of keeping your interests at heart.
Where were you when the Red Cross had to answer for all the money it laundered?
The ESRB is a business like any other, just a well seeded one that gets away with more than you could possibly imagine - or care to.
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Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Originally posted by GTwander Originally posted by Zook81 Originally posted by GTwander Says the guy that want's "proof" of bribes. Why don't I dig up the Deep Throat tapes while I'm at it.
I'm not "defending an organization". I just want to know the truth. You claimed to know it but you didn't show me anything to make me beleive that you're anything more than someone who likes to argue on the internet. To ask me to beleive you because "I was in QA once I swear" is perposterous.
~and being overly defensive to the point where you'd deny the very possibility that any commitee member has never accepted a bribe of some kind is no different.
At this point you're arguing for the sake of arguing as well. My stance has been that it's open for abuse, likely has been abused, and will be abused in the future. As will all things of this nature. Otherwise these things would never be open for "negotiation" and would be a lot more "cut and dry" than it is. Minds can apparantly be changed easier than the game itself can - care to ask why?
Originally posted by GTwander ~and being overly defensive to the point where you'd deny the very possibility that any commitee member has never accepted a bribe of some kind is no different. At this point you're arguing for the sake of arguing as well. My stance has been that it's open for abuse, likely has been abused, and will be abused in the future. As will all things of this nature. Otherwise these things would never be open for "negotiation" and would be a lot more "cut and dry" than it is.
Now you're just putting shit in my mouth. I've never said the ESRB is never capable of wrong doing. But I also have a hard time beleiveing that it is this huge corrupted scam that does nothing more but interfere with video game releases.
Anyways, whatever. Just one of those arguments that wont get anywhere. This is seriously the first time I've ever heard of any of this. I'd figure this kind of stuff would have been documented by now if it was true.
I didn't have to put shit in your mouth, you demanded proof as if that would make a difference.
~and it's the same level of scam as slipping a driving instructor a hundo to pass the test, etc. Or paying him that hundo to make sure the asshole behind you in line *doesn't*. It's not liek the whole bureau is in on it, that's fucking ridiculous.
It's called LOBBYING. All you need is the right people on your side.
Originally posted by GTwander It's not liek the whole bureau is in on it, that's fucking ridiculous.
Ok then. I misunderstood you. What can I say? I'll admit I'm wrong.
I still don't really think this makes the ESRB a bad entity, and don't think anything is wrong with them in relation to the OP's post. Sure theres a few bad apples but I don't think it makes the entire ESRB corruped or bad. I'd much rather have them rate games than the government.
The notion that any organization, public or private, is more likely free of corruption than taking part in it in at least some way, is absurd beyond the point of bothering to argue about it.
Who the fuck cares why the ESRB exists if it can be done by profit-motivated private organization than power-motivated government?
Allowing the private company to do its thing is fine. There is nothing wrong with a rating system on games that measures the potential offensiveness of games. It keeps the mouths of countless parents shut and out of your way.
I'd even contend that the ESRB provides more benefit than it does in hurting anything.
The ESRB was founded in 1994. Somehow the gaming industry did fine for many years before them and they would do fine after them. I'm glad I didn't have put up that rating non sense when I was a kid.
On the other hand it does give a bunch of people a job, albeit a useless one.
Does anyone actually believe this stop kids from playing mature rated games (besides naive parents)?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.-- Herman Melville
Originally posted by dave6660 The ESRB was founded in 1994. Somehow the gaming industry did fine for many years before them and they would do fine after them. I'm glad I didn't have put up that rating non sense when I was a kid.
Then perhaps you should recall what preceded the ESRB. Sega had its own rating system for games on its consoles. Nintendo did not, but insisted that all games on its consoles were appropriate for all audiences--and aggressively censored games to prove its point. Nintendo didn't merely stop games from doing things that would merit an M rating; they'd likely censor anything in line for a T rating in the ESRB system, too. And that was most of the market for video games right there.
Computers were still too expensive for the PC gaming market to matter much. Consoles made by Panasonic, SNK, NEC, Phillips, etc. around that time had so few games and players as to be irrelevant. Older consoles such as those made by Atari were lucky to just have moving, low resolution sprites, and didn't really have the resources to do much that was potentially offensive without being flagrantly stupid even if they wanted to.
Do you really want to go back to that world?
Originally posted by zekeofev
This is why we do not have games with full nudity or excesive graphical torture that would put it in the category that retails would not sell it at.
But but but...Square-Enix wouldn't have survived without their period of Hentai games.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Disdena First of all, just wanna throw this out there: using yourself as an example is an awful way to try to prove a point. I mean, using any one person as a single example is bad (because it's only circumstantial evidence) but using yourself is particularly bad. Of all the people in the world to judge whether you turned out okay, you are probably the person least qualified to do so. That's just how it is. Aside from that, what "law" are you talking about? The ESRB isn't a government agency. There is no law preventing a game company from creating a game and selling it without submitting it to the ESRB for a rating. There is no law preventing a retailer from selling unrated or M-rated games to minors. Game creators choose to allow their games to be rated because it allows the consumers to make a more informed choice.
Exactly. People really need to research a topic before they rally against it. If an industry doesn't regulate itself, the gov'ts will, and none of us - players or developers - want that. It's why the movie industry created their own rating system, as well.
Switching to a more universal system of ratings in place of ESRB and PEGI is something I *might* agree with, but the removal of the ESRB leaves room for vile beasts like Tipper and the PMRC to step in and, again, NONE OF US want that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Quizzical Then perhaps you should recall what preceded the ESRB.
Tipper Gore and the PMRC? Moral Majority elections?
"You cannot distract people from thinking about an unfair tax by talking about Music Appreciation. For that you need sex, and lots of it."--F. Zappa
Originally posted by navroan There are only 21 games that have received (and kept) an ESRB AO rating. They are all because of "Strong Sexual Content". You can decaptiate people, you can splatter blood all over the screen. You can screw hookers in a car (obscured) and the shoot them for cash. You will not receive an AO rating. You show a boob -- OMG AO. (edit - that's not even accurate... conan has boobs [ had boobs, I dunno what it's like now, and I refused to keep paying for a beta] and it's not AO... so in hindsight the only thing that gets AO is human sex, in clear detailed view...because that's what important to censor is the reason why you were born) The problem with the ESRB is not that requirement that things get rated or else you do not sell at all. The problem is, it's pretty much everything goes (blood violence horrible language you name it, you'll get an M rating) till you show some genitalia or 'oh noes' a boob. Then you magically get an AO rating. God fobid you can't be sold at wal-mart, the world's coming to an end now. Pretty much same thing applies to movies with R ratings, though they seem much more lax about what can exist in an R rating and what goes NC-17, which has to be pretty much porn. (violence alone, no matter how gruesome, will pretty much never get you above an R rating in movies, or an M rating in games... only sex gets you higher)
most retailers are squimish about AO ratings, they get flak from the moral police and they don't sell well.
well showing genitala isn't even worthy of an AO rating, gta4:ballad of gay tony has male full frontal nudity in it.
so it must be how extreme it is and how much of it it is.
GoW has nudity in it as well, along with conan as you said, so it must be something else.
i would say sex is really the only thing, and extreme violence and gore. sorry but the only reason movies seem like they don't get X ratings is because the movie is forced to cut out really extreme scenes that you won't see, same with games.
of course in america we are pretty screwed up in our priorities, violence should be presented as AO not nudity.