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The itemization is the only thing that worries me about this game

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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nomatics856
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by nomatics856

    Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

    Actually, in the case of GW2, everyone wants to be the best based on skill, not gear. Everyone gets great stats, but not everyone gets great gear. And people are willing to "work hard" to get the best looking gear.

    If you want to be best through skill only, play a FPS? It does not work in mmorpgs, it never has. UO proved this. In the end all melee classes will get the short end of the stick. Thats why most melee have to now end up using range and that is why gaurdians currently suck in PVP.

    False. It worked in GW1.

     

    Besides that, UO, a game released in '97 doesn't prove anything. And gear would not change the situation you are describing. 

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by nomatics856
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by nomatics856

    Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

    Actually, in the case of GW2, everyone wants to be the best based on skill, not gear. Everyone gets great stats, but not everyone gets great gear. And people are willing to "work hard" to get the best looking gear.

    If you want to be best through skill only, play a FPS? It does not work in mmorpgs, it never has. UO proved this. In the end all melee classes will get the short end of the stick. Thats why most melee have to now end up using range and that is why gaurdians currently suck in PVP.

    False. It worked in GW1.

    It worked with DAOC too.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • nomatics856nomatics856 orlando, FLPosts: 214Member
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by nomatics856
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by nomatics856

    Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

    Actually, in the case of GW2, everyone wants to be the best based on skill, not gear. Everyone gets great stats, but not everyone gets great gear. And people are willing to "work hard" to get the best looking gear.

    If you want to be best through skill only, play a FPS? It does not work in mmorpgs, it never has. UO proved this. In the end all melee classes will get the short end of the stick. Thats why most melee have to now end up using range and that is why gaurdians currently suck in PVP.

    False. It worked in GW1.

    It did not. Melee still got the crappier end of the stick in GW1. 55 monks dominated PVP and were basically unkillable because of "skill". In a case like this game of skill vs itemization, range and spellcasters will always dominate melee always.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nomatics856

    It did not. Melee still got the crappier end of the stick in GW1. 55 monks dominated PVP and were basically unkillable because of "skill". In a case like this game of skill vs itemization, range and spellcasters will always dominate melee always.

    I thought this was a discussion about GW2 not having a gear grind and how it will or will not work? Now you're talking about something completely different since you can't win the original argument, others have given you examples of games where GW2 method for gear does work.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • CursedseiCursedsei Clarkston, MIPosts: 1,012Member

    [mod edit]

    The point of gear in GW2 is to remove a large portion of the annoyances you face at end-game with other MMOs. The annoyances that punish you when real life takes over your free time for an extended time. The annoyances of playing at a pace others would eclipse in no time in a gear-treadmill situation. The annoyances of having some DBag Top ranked gladiator in full on dragonfire-crapping epic PvP armor running around lowbie zones and killing everything 'just because he can' with no way to fight back because "His gear is just too darn strong Cap'tin!".

     

    Of course, the latter is a bit of an exaggeration (and technically untrue, seeing as any "open world" PvP of the sort would occur in the WvW battles, but general idea still applies).

     

    The idea is to give players a general bar which is reasonably easy to reach by playing however you like. Players then refine and shift themselves around that bar to fit the playing style of their class. Someone with a precision-heavy playstyle will obviously want precision-heavy armor, but at the level cap they will be just fine even with armor that isn't exactly focused on it. The rest is just finding and crafting a look for your character.

     

    Which is exactly how Guild Wars 1 plays. Heck, even without all the optimizing gear and stats and the like, my character still hits dang hard with his scythe/pole (using Winds of Change weapon), and my heroes nuke plenty hard (and hold their own easily).

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nomatics856

    It did not. Melee still got the crappier end of the stick in GW1. 55 monks dominated PVP and were basically unkillable because of "skill". In a case like this game of skill vs itemization, range and spellcasters will always dominate melee always.

    There's your problem. You think that balancing is perfect in games with a gear grind. You're wrong about that.

  • Poison_AdelePoison_Adele Seattle, WAPosts: 287Member
    Originally posted by nomatics856
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by nomatics856

    Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

    Actually, in the case of GW2, everyone wants to be the best based on skill, not gear. Everyone gets great stats, but not everyone gets great gear. And people are willing to "work hard" to get the best looking gear.

    If you want to be best through skill only, play a FPS? It does not work in mmorpgs, it never has. UO proved this. In the end all melee classes will get the short end of the stick. Thats why most melee have to now end up using range and that is why gaurdians currently suck in PVP.

    Just because you played a guardian and got your butt kicked, does not mean guardians suck.

    Have a ranged weapon, and a melee weapon. Ranged weapon for when you're at ranged, and melee weapon (which does far more damage) at close range. All classes can do this, even guardians.

    There was a running joke among a top PVP guild, Team Legacy, that "if we saw a guardian defending a point, we just kept going". There are a number of videos out no where guardians can defend points indefinitely, even against 3 v 1.

    Their strength is not damage, but you seem to be under the impression that they should do as much damage as everyone else? But maybe I am interpreting wrong. Because they really did not suck at what they are meant to excel at.

    image

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by nomatics856

    It did not. Melee still got the crappier end of the stick in GW1. 55 monks dominated PVP and were basically unkillable because of "skill". In a case like this game of skill vs itemization, range and spellcasters will always dominate melee always.

     Wait... what?  55 monk is a farming build, not a PvP dominating build.  Have you even LOOKED at the meta for PvP builds?  There's generally so many warriors it feels more like Warrior Wars rather than Guild Wars.  I'm pretty sure there's a whole bunch of mages who WISH what you said was true, after being slapped silly with various hammer builds...

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nomatics856

    There is no hard to get equipment or loot, or powerful hard to get loot and every one has a easy chance of having the best gear, and dungeons dont drop rare gear.

    Kinda worries me., that no one wants to work to get good gear.

    perhaps there needs to be a paradigm shift on your part.

    Guild Wars was never about "great gear". That was the beauty of it. People could get what they needed and the rest was up to their own skill.

    So the shift is "less on gear and more about concnetrating on what you want to achieve".

    That is where the effort will go.

     

    As far as your comment on "it never worked in an mmo", I think the chasing of "loot" is one of the worst things to ever happen in an mmo. I'd rather chase achievements such as beating my enemy, taking down a hard encounter or personal goals.

    Guild Wars was successful regardless of the fact that there was no need to chase loot. I think GW2 will have no problems in this area.

  • DoomedfoxDoomedfox Elmhurts, NYPosts: 685Member Common
    Originally posted by Geobardi

    You are underestimating the need of looking cool. Yes, it's possible to have the best gear (in numbers) easily, but nobody wants to look like a noob with those gears, everyone is going to hunt the sets that they like and the most cool-looking armor is not going to be easy to get.

    I wonder if the Item shop will have some armor/weapon skins you can buy to look cool if it does i would say its pretty easy to get the cool look ;) 

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Tayah
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by nomatics856
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by nomatics856

    Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

    Actually, in the case of GW2, everyone wants to be the best based on skill, not gear. Everyone gets great stats, but not everyone gets great gear. And people are willing to "work hard" to get the best looking gear.

    If you want to be best through skill only, play a FPS? It does not work in mmorpgs, it never has. UO proved this. In the end all melee classes will get the short end of the stick. Thats why most melee have to now end up using range and that is why gaurdians currently suck in PVP.

    False. It worked in GW1.

    It worked with DAOC too.

    It worked in CoH/V too. 

    Wait, that's a game that tried both models.  Oh no, what does that mean?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • GamerUntouchGamerUntouch smithville ON, ONPosts: 488Member

     

     

    So much for guardian being bad.

    I think it's you.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member

    It worked with Asheron's Call 1 too.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by Doomedfox

    I wonder if the Item shop will have some armor/weapon skins you can buy to look cool if it does i would say its pretty easy to get the cool look ;) 

     Nah, that won't be the most prestigious stuff.  Sure, you may look fancy, but nobody serious will be impressed.  Actually, even the BASIC stuff in GW2, just the things you find off the ground looks nice.

    GW2 is full of people who look pretty awesome.  If you're speaking from a purely cosmetic point of view, awesomeness is all over the place.  I had amazing looking medium armor at level 35.

    We're talking about the sort of prestige that comes from unique looks that people will know you had to struggle to earn.

    It's the legendary weapons and things like that, that will impress the hell out of people.  Stuff that require actual large amounts of playing the game.  Like getting the most elite dungeon armors.

  • GamerUntouchGamerUntouch smithville ON, ONPosts: 488Member

    In runescape (can't believe I'm using that), before they ruined it, everyone had the same gear, and it worked.

     

    Then they ruined it with godswords and shit.

  • newbinatornewbinator LA, CAPosts: 780Member

    I don't consider myself to be a hardcore player. However, I want some "grind" or whatever you want to call it... I want something to aim for. Something more than a new weapon skin. I don't like GW2's approach in that regard. One of the reasons I won't be buying it.

  • silvermembersilvermember saint paul, MNPosts: 531Member
    Originally posted by nomatics856
    Originally posted by silvermember

     

    OP, games are things people play for fun. They are not a way of life, they are not a lifestyle. Playing a game unless you are a professional that makes money off it, is not suppose to be a job. There is a reason why JOBS play money and that is because if they did not pay money, nobody would do them.

    MMORPG only became jobs because companies figure out that they could use loot as a way to string you a long for 15 dollars a month. In some ways it is kinda sad that people want to pay 15 bucks a month for the honor of being treated like a rabbit. If you want a game that is like work, here is what you do:

    1. Buy the google classes or any AR glasses.

    2. Program it to display HP/MP of all your co workers. And whenever you get a new assignment have the AR glasses programmed to treat the assignment or project like  a quest.

    3. Get paid for doing actual work .

    OR

    just got buy WoW and all its clones and pay them for the honor of doing busy work. LOL

    Games are fun, but mmorpgs are supposed to be a different breed where they are fun yet there is a community sense of real life sense to an mmorpg where usually the player works harder to be greater than other players and is rewarded usually through great gear.

    MMORPG is still a game and it is suppose to be fun. If you want to be better than everybody then prove it by being a better player when everything is equalize, so the only limiting factor is skill. MMORPG are a different breed ONLY because companies realize people like you wont be able to see that you are getting played into paying money.

    Here is the thing when you are having fun, the fun IS the reward. And if you need something else then you should probably find a new activity.

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by newbinator

    I don't consider myself to be a hardcore player. However, I want some "grind" or whatever you want to call it... I want something to aim for. Something more than a new weapon skin. I don't like GW2's approach in that regard. One of the reasons I won't be buying it.

     Well, the part in red is your problem right there.  It takes hardcore dedication to become better at a game by playing it and raising your own personal skill.

    If you were a hardcore player, maybe you'd appreciate the idea of having mad skills a little better. :(  It's okay though!  Not everybody is capable of becoming much better.

    That's why the game has easy PvE stuff, and it's B2P.  That way even people who can only get a couple hundred hours out of the game before it's too hard for them, at least they get their money's worth and don't have to worry about a subscription. :)

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by nomatics856

    Seems like since Obama became president socialism and communism has also spread to mmorpgs I see.

     I thought the problem with GW2 is that people can buy their way to the top.  Isn't that rampant capitalism?

    Man, I can't keep up with the complaints anymore, I'm so confused. :(

    .... more seriously, there's tons of things to work for in the game, it's just that working for these things is for fun and looks, not because it's mandatory.

    Do you have something against looking better? 

    I agree. On the one hand, I am repeatedly told that GW2 is P2W. I see a new thread on this every couple of days.

    I was in the process of transferring money from my Swiss bank account back to the US so I could win the hell out of the game by buying everything in the cash shop at launch including one pirate outfit for each day of the week.

    Now I'm faced with the "facts" that GW2 represents either communism or socialism or both simultaneously.

    What in the hell am I supposed to do?

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • HonnerHonner SydneyPosts: 504Member
    Originally posted by wnunes

    They have the same lv if they are using the same type of gear.

     

    There is a progression. blue - Green - Orange. ( it has more colors)

     

    This kind, so its not THAT cosmetic, and its not easy to obtain an Orange equip

     

    IT requires 60-80 badges to aquire ONE equip in the WvWvW.

    the point is that once you have the most powerful gear there won't be any other gear more powerful than it, just different appearance/stats. For example in WoW with every patch they come out with a new tier or new items with more level than the previous one and more powerful

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    I for one, will be glad to finally have an mmorpg to have fun in again. I haven't had a game to play since UO, DAOC, & AC, that I would log in and actually have fun playing, instead of dreading logging in.

    I'm sick of gear grind, dailies, raiding that force you into feeling like the game is a second job, where you come home from your day at work and dread logging in to your second job, and only do so because people are depending on your class to do their second job of the evening too.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Honner
    For example in WoW with every patch they come out with a new tier or new items with more level than the previous one and more powerful

    People used to complain about that.  All my hard work is wasted yammer yammer.

    Isn't there still a traditional gear gripefest every expansion?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member
    Originally posted by newbinator

    I don't consider myself to be a hardcore player. However, I want some "grind" or whatever you want to call it... I want something to aim for. Something more than a new weapon skin. I don't like GW2's approach in that regard. One of the reasons I won't be buying it.

    I am surprised that so few people seem to have watched a most informative video with regard to "end game" and "grind". It seems that, for people interested in such things, it will have both. It may not look like your traditional "dailies" from WoW and it will not have you raiding a new tier every 9 months while paying $15/month for the privelege of accessing your character, but it does seem to offer a significant amount of things to do.

    http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/guild-wars-2-endgame-revealed/

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • CursedseiCursedsei Clarkston, MIPosts: 1,012Member
    Originally posted by Derpybird
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by nomatics856

    [mod edit]

     I thought the problem with GW2 is that people can buy their way to the top.  Isn't that rampant capitalism?

    Man, I can't keep up with the complaints anymore, I'm so confused. :(

    .... more seriously, there's tons of things to work for in the game, it's just that working for these things is for fun and looks, not because it's mandatory.

    Do you have something against looking better? 

    I agree. On the one hand, I am repeatedly told that GW2 is P2W. I see a new thread on this every couple of days.

    I was in the process of transferring money from my Swiss bank account back to the US so I could win the hell out of the game by buying everything in the cash shop at launch including one pirate outfit for each day of the week.

    Now I'm faced with the "facts" that GW2 represents either communism or socialism or both simultaneously.

    What in the hell am I supposed to do?

    You would do well to salute, for starters, Comrade! LONG LIVE MOTHER RUSSIA!

    Now, just figure out how to say that in the Chinese language, as well as the languages of whatever other regions of the world also believe in the communistic/socialist structure.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Honner
    For example in WoW with every patch they come out with a new tier or new items with more level than the previous one and more powerful

    People used to complain about that.  All my hard work is wasted yammer yammer.

    Isn't there still a traditional gear gripefest every expansion?

    I think 3 nuclear wars were started over the Vanilla -> BC expansion. Or was it 4?

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