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What is P2W?

nomssnomss albany, NYPosts: 1,468Member

I know it stands for pay 2 win, but what does it really mean? I played FFXI for few years, WOW few months, SWTOR for few months, DCUO a month. But I did not see anything regarding P2W.

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Comments

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon

    It means any game that the person posting does not like, pretty much.


    In all seriousness, it means a game where the amount of cash you spend determines how powerful your character is, as opposed to power being determined by a combination of time spent playing, knowledge of the game, and your personal skill.


    I'm not familiar with DCUO, but certainly FFXI, WoW and SW:TOR do not feature anything that any reasonable person would ever describe as "pay to win".

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    Mostly F2P asian games.  Actually you can just call it asian games because all of them are f2p, almost.  The game I got hook on is Atlantica Online.  Basically I can spend real money and buy equipment enhance item.  I was spending 100$ a month to make my equipment stronger.  But relatively my equipment is still crap because there's people spending 1000$ a month.

    I suggest you don't try those, because it's very frustrating.  It's still possible to compete in those game, but you have to play 15 hours a day to compete against those that spend money.

     

  • xdemonhunterxdemonhunter You dont need to knowPosts: 31Member

    Pay to win is an aspect of free to play games that use the cash shop model.U prolly havent seen pay to win because all the games u mentioned are prolly subscrition games where u pay a fee and everybody is on same grounds.Free to play games with cash shops always followe a model that the more u pay the better u can get to a point where in some games few players end up spending 2k-6k dollars to be on "top".

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member
    Originally posted by Banquetto

    It means any game that the person posting does not like, pretty much.

    90% of cases, it's this.

    Any F2P that someone isn't informed about, but would still rather hate on, is going to be called "pay to win". Much like how any game made in Asia, regardless of how it plays, or where it's from, would be called a "Korean grinder".

    It's the N-word for games, and used en masse by bigotist/ignorant people.

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  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member

    I'll steal from a video I was watching on this same topic earlier. In its broadest sanse, pay2win refers to any game that:

     

    1) Provides a player with the ability to buy instantly for real life something that would take substantial work and difficulty ingame to acquire;

     

    2) Provides the player who pays for it an advantage not available within the game that allows them signifigantly easier gameply/dominance over other players.

     

    Now what games match those criteria and why can be hotly debated.

  • nomssnomss albany, NYPosts: 1,468Member
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by Banquetto

    It means any game that the person posting does not like, pretty much.

    90% of cases, it's this.

    Any F2P that someone isn't informed about, but would still rather hate on, is going to be called "pay to win". Much like how any game made in Asia, regardless of how it plays, or where it's from, would be called a "Korean grinder".

    It's the N-word for games, and used en masse by bigotist/ignorant people.

    Yes, I feel that might be the case.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nomss

    I know it stands for pay 2 win, but what does it really mean? I played FFXI for few years, WOW few months, SWTOR for few months, DCUO a month. But I did not see anything regarding P2W.

    Best example would be Allods.

    Pay 2 Win basically means a game in which you are required to buy things from the cash shop in order to play a game on a comparable level with people who use the cash shop. In Allods the game seems pretty legit F2P game. Until you hit about lvl 20, and start going to the open pvp zones for your quests. You'll find the other free players about on par with you in terms of skill & difficulty. Then comes along a guy w/ cash shop gear, and you get 1-2 shotted in a second. Perfect example of P2W right there.

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    Fantasy Earth Zero (no longer available in NA) had a pay to win cash shop. You could buy armor and weapons that were stonger than what you could get in the game. It was PvP-centric too.

  • evolver1972evolver1972 Port Orchard, WAPosts: 1,118Member

    I think most people accept the seemingly standard definition of any CS that includes items that give a distinct advantage over other players that can't be fairly gotten in game (meaning no super hard bosses or long grinds to get said advantage).  This especially holds true in PvP situations.  Some people think that getting prettier armor or PvE leveling faster is P2W but they seem to be the minority. 

     

    Having said that, it then becomes very subjective as to which game the definition applies to and why.  Also, two different games can have the same thing in their respective cash shops but for one game it may be P2W and the other it isn't.  For instance, in a game where your PvP power depends largely on your XP level, an XP booster could easily be considered P2W.  On the other hand, the same XP booster may not be P2W in a game where XP levels don't determine PvP power so much.

     

    So, as you can see, it's not so tricky to define Pay2Win.  It is very tricky to apply it "correctly".

     

    Edit:  Another definition that can be applied is a game where you have to pay real money to be able to even enter zones where your main quests take you.

    image

    You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

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  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

    Play Runes of Magic on a PVP server, and you'll understand what P2W is all about.

    image

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  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member
    Originally posted by Banquetto

    It means any game that the person posting does not like, pretty much.

    Nailed it.

    In an ideal world, the term would mark the boundary between games where paying more money can allow you to advance a little faster and games where paying customers receive increases in power that are unattainable (or near-unattainable) by other players. In these forums, it can apply to literally any game in which two people can pay different amounts to play the game.

    image
  • GamerUntouchGamerUntouch smithville ON, ONPosts: 488Member

    To this site: The game has a cash shop.

    Reality: The game has a cash shop in which you can buy items that DIRECTLY make you stronger than someone else.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by Banquetto

    It means any game that the person posting does not like, pretty much.

    90% of cases, it's this.

    Any F2P that someone isn't informed about, but would still rather hate on, is going to be called "pay to win". Much like how any game made in Asia, regardless of how it plays, or where it's from, would be called a "Korean grinder".

    It's the N-word for games, and used en masse by bigotist/ignorant people.

    Well, you know there's only 1 white guy on the 2012 Usa basketball team.  And as far as I know there's only 13% black people in America.  You can't blame people for generization.

  • BigRock411BigRock411 Barrington, ILPosts: 299Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Play Runes of Magic on a PVP server, and you'll understand what P2W is all about.

    image

    Have you tried Allods?  maxing out each rune cost like $1750 and theres like 6 of them...the give flat out damage and damage reduction stats.

     

    P2W games aim to get you in a spending contest...biggest wallet wins and the cap on benefits is usually insane amounts of money.  Games that are not pay to win you could spend $100 or $5000 and it would still be a fair fight (thats a lot of deco pets mounts and goofy clothes however)

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member
    Originally posted by BigRock411
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Play Runes of Magic on a PVP server, and you'll understand what P2W is all about.

    image

    Have you tried Allods?  maxing out each rune cost like $1750 and theres like 6 of them...the give flat out damage and damage reduction stats.

     

    P2W games aim to get you in a spending contest...biggest wallet wins and the cap on benefits is usually insane amounts of money.  Games that are not pay to win you could spend $100 or $5000 and it would still be a fair fight (thats a lot of deco pets mounts and goofy clothes however)

     While Allods is a perfect example of a P2W cash shop, there are many F2P games that also fit the bill. Sometimes it's elixirs that make you stronger, items that reduce cooldowns, give bonuses in damage/healing/armor, PvP mounts, special skills that can be acquired through the cash shop. There is often something in the cash shops that entice people to buy it. Free 2 Play = Free to be owned by those who pay = Pay 2 Win.

     

    imageimage
  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    If you have to purchase the game, it's pay to win.

  • MattVidMattVid Terre Haute, INPosts: 399Member
    Originally posted by Banquetto

    It means any game that the person posting does not like, pretty much.


    In all seriousness, it means a game where the amount of cash you spend determines how powerful your character is, as opposed to power being determined by a combination of time spent playing, knowledge of the game, and your personal skill.


    I'm not familiar with DCUO, but certainly FFXI, WoW and SW:TOR do not feature anything that any reasonable person would ever describe as "pay to win".

    Pretty much this.

    However, many people consider games not "pay to win", when in fact, they are even more so than many non-pay 2 win games. Like FFXI and any MMO, most of the "pay to win" aspects are handled by RMT companies. I have known so many people that have bought gold, sold accounts, etc. Cash shops, IMO, are a better way to cut the RMT out of it, let the company pull in the profits, and many of the shops allow for "real money" to act as "in game currency" thus giving it a value among the player base.

    I don't mind cash shops at all, as long as there is a way to get to a certain point without having to spend money to get the best gun/weapon/armor. That to me is true "pay to win". Convenience items like EXP boosts and what not, I don't really think matter. At least as long as the game is balanced level vs. level and not giving those people a significant advantage in PvP situations.

    For PvE though? I could care less if someone is enjoying themselves more or progressing a little faster. As long as you are not being cock blocked with 90% of the features of the game, I think cash shops are great, and basically destroy RMT outside of the "safe and secure" system in-game.

  • SkullyWoodsSkullyWoods Thorold, ONPosts: 183Member

    The "win" in  'pay to win' refers to besting other players. In a game, if you can pay money to have an advantage over another user then the game is referred to as pay to win. 

    Then there are games that you can pay to have an advantage over the game itself as opposed to the players. These are the games that get confused with 'pay to win' games.

    And like previous replies stated, people often refer to cash shop games that they don't like as 'pay to win' but those people are silly because the game may have nothing to do with 'pay to win' at all.

    The point is, that 'pay to win' means the ability to buy an advantage over other users.

    If you cannot pay to get the edge over other users it is not 'pay to win'.

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  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,554Member Uncommon

    Fiesta was a P2W.  It got me for $40 in the 1st month before I realized I would be spending less in Los Vegas, Nevada.  In my defense I was green and did not know such things exist.  Yeah, I'm a bit slow.

  • KazuhiroKazuhiro Hampshire, AZPosts: 512Member Uncommon

    Some people will say it's any game where you can buy items not found via other means. Personnaly, my definition is...

    "Any game with "pvp" that allows you to buy items with real world currency, that give an advantage not otherwise possible to obtain through other non absurdly difficult methods or means."

    Does not apply to "pve only" games, unless the game is otherwise impossible (or nearly so) to complete without cash shop items.

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  • xdemonhunterxdemonhunter You dont need to knowPosts: 31Member
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal

    Fiesta was a P2W.  It got me for $40 in the 1st month before I realized I would be spending less in Los Vegas, Nevada.  In my defense I was green and did not know such things exist.  Yeah, I'm a bit slow.

    Lol i used to play fiesta that game is the definition of pay to win in the most pure form.Cash shop on it outright sell power... and you cannot get anything from the cash shop from normal in game means with the exception of a few limited quests and events and it is against the rules to buy cash shop items from other players and the game dosent support the trades (cash shop items are bound to you only way to give then to someone is directly gifting to their accounts). Their shops sell the following items: 50% hp/sp extenders, critical suits that more than double the max amount u can get in game, dmg/def suits, weapon skins that increase crit/dmg/aim, 50% and 20% charms, charms arethe worst of them all they last 2h and 1h respectivily and can be stacked by using both charms u increase a chars def/attack by 70% the other features i listed last 1day 7 day or 30 day depending on the time you buy.Basically the game is made in a sense that a regular player would never stand a chance against a cash shopper and everything on the cash shop is time limited so your forced to keep buying it as long as u play to have that "edge".

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nomss

    I know it stands for pay 2 win, but what does it really mean? I played FFXI for few years, WOW few months, SWTOR for few months, DCUO a month. But I did not see anything regarding P2W.

     

    Any game that has a cash shop that sells upgrades for your character is pay to win. 

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by nomss

    I know it stands for pay 2 win, but what does it really mean? I played FFXI for few years, WOW few months, SWTOR for few months, DCUO a month. But I did not see anything regarding P2W.

     

    Any game that has a cash shop that sells upgrades for your character is pay to win. 

    Eh, I would argue that on two bases.

     

    1. If the upgrades are readily avaialable without TOO much effort in game, I wouldn't consider it P2W.
    2. If the upgrades affect things that do not change your standing in relation to other players. For instance, xp boosts. If someone gets to max level a day before me, that doesn't make him king of the world. 
  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by terrant

    Eh, I would argue that on two bases.

     

    1. If the upgrades are readily avaialable without TOO much effort in game, I wouldn't consider it P2W.
    2. If the upgrades affect things that do not change your standing in relation to other players. For instance, xp boosts. If someone gets to max level a day before me, that doesn't make him king of the world. 

     

    1.  It doesn't matter how you earn the CS item.  Someone still purchased that item from the cash shop. 

     

    2.  P2W is a general description that describes the payment model.   It has nothing to do with the quality of items in the cash shop. 

  • xdemonhunterxdemonhunter You dont need to knowPosts: 31Member
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by nomss

    I know it stands for pay 2 win, but what does it really mean? I played FFXI for few years, WOW few months, SWTOR for few months, DCUO a month. But I did not see anything regarding P2W.

     

    Any game that has a cash shop that sells upgrades for your character is pay to win. 

    Eh, I would argue that on two bases.

     

    1. If the upgrades are readily avaialable without TOO much effort in game, I wouldn't consider it P2W.
    2. If the upgrades affect things that do not change your standing in relation to other players. For instance, xp boosts. If someone gets to max level a day before me, that doesn't make him king of the world. 

    Pretty sure he is talking about enhancement stones and stuff like that.Almost every single cash shop based game use enhancements as means to make money, like u can enhance ur gear to make it better but it has a chance of breaking and the shop sells something that prevents item from breaking (usually dosent guarantee sucess just takes out the risk of breaking), every game i played that offers that system it is kind of a must to use the cash shop item to upgrade ur gear or buy the upgraded stuff of other players.

    Also u can argue that even on games that do not offer game inbalancing cash shop items if u can trade/sell those things to other players u can pay to win.You could simple buy lots of items/cash shop money sell to players and get best available gear in game and/or buy power lvls.

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