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We looked to World of Warcraft.

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Comments

  • DragonantisDragonantis DublinPosts: 974Member

    Nooooooo say it aint soooooooo!!!

    This is a dagger though my Final Fantasy heart!

  • MrlogicMrlogic Posts: 178Member

    The whole idea of making transitioning easy for WoW players (to whatever other game you have) sickens me. Just get in there, start a new learning curve, read up & explore.  

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    Yes and no. Personally I never liked the turn based combat, there's a place for that and that's in older SRPG games not in mmos. For example, the most recent videos of gameplay i've seen of combat in this game was where it literally took 10 abilities to prepare for battle before each fight and then it too three things to do each attack all while waiting for unecessary and dated timers. This to me is either one of those ploys to keep people online for as long as humanly possible (much like giving mobs resistances in LOTRO when they tried that for a time to make simple mobs harder so that fights were incredibly hard outside of dungeons while it was subscription only) or someone while trying to make the game more nostalgic went too far.

    I think they would benefit in gaining the combat style which shouldn't be too difficult of a conversion since they already have a single target button mashing thing going, if they really wanted fantastic combat tho and they were serious about making their game the best it could be they should emulate the combat from GW2 or Neverwinter at the very least, making it more action based is always better. We've all seen too many button mashers.

     

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon

    They should've stuck with FFXI's formula.  I always thought it was going to be FFXI-2.  The races look the same, art is the same, just different job system and land.  I liked the slow pace of FFXI, but I'm just 1 in millions.

  • BelarionBelarion na, ONPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Yes and no. Personally I never liked the turn based combat, there's a place for that and that's in older SRPG games not in mmos. For example, the most recent videos of gameplay i've seen of combat in this game was where it literally took 10 abilities to prepare for battle before each fight and then it too three things to do each attack all while waiting for unecessary and dated timers. This to me is either one of those ploys to keep people online for as long as humanly possible (much like giving mobs resistances in LOTRO when they tried that for a time to make simple mobs harder so that fights were incredibly hard outside of dungeons while it was subscription only) or someone while trying to make the game more nostalgic went too far.

    I think they would benefit in gaining the combat style which shouldn't be too difficult of a conversion since they already have a single target button mashing thing going, if they really wanted fantastic combat tho and they were serious about making their game the best it could be they should emulate the combat from GW2 or Neverwinter at the very least, making it more action based is always better. We've all seen too many button mashers.

     

    Guess what? You are mashing buttons no matter what video game you play. God people are dense as bricks, I swear.

     

    In FF11 the combat was slow and such to actually allow for players to utilize a variety of interesting spells and skills before, during and after battle. It made the combat very fun for some people. Just because you would rather convince yourself that some other way of doing combat is more "skillful" (this is MMOs we are talking about... but you go ahead and believe you have epeen skillz) does not mean that other ways of playing are not appreciated by different people. Nor does it mean that time based, strategic battles are outdated. It could very well be a sign of changing tastes in video game players... but changing tastes does not equal better tastes.

     

    So get off your high horse.

     

    BRAH!

     

    image

    I love snails.
    I love every kinda snail.
    I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
    Cant hug every snail.

  • BelarionBelarion na, ONPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by Garvon3
    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    Ignoring WoW is one of the largest reason FFXIV is in the mess it's in right now.  This can only improve the game.

    Ignoring WoW was the best thing the game ever did. Releasing broken is what caused the issue.

    100% agree.

     

    I love how they throw Tanaka under a bus, or onto his own sword... and then say "Sorry, we will work to make the game more western like WoW". Honestly? You think that was the problem? For real?

     

    SE released an aborted fetus of a game. Almost every single aspect of the game was interesting in some way but broken and flawed in another. The problems spoke, not of a lack of vision, but lack of effort and time to iron the problems out. And sub contracting Chinese programmers... wow SE...wow.

     

    image

     

     

    I love snails.
    I love every kinda snail.
    I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
    Cant hug every snail.

  • Br3akingDawnBr3akingDawn a City, CAPosts: 1,359Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gravarg

    They should've stuck with FFXI's formula.  I always thought it was going to be FFXI-2.  The races look the same, art is the same, just different job system and land.  I liked the slow pace of FFXI, but I'm just 1 in millions.

    its 2 in millions now. I loved FFXI formula, even death. I ended up playing for 5-6yrs from launch. But sadly the world just got outdated, especially with other mmos looking more and more flashy. I must move on. If FF14 was the same o thing with just updated graphics... I will be back in a heartbeat.

    image

  • MiyuukunMiyuukun Broadview Heights, OHPosts: 8Member
    Originally posted by Belarion
    Originally posted by Garvon3
    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    Ignoring WoW is one of the largest reason FFXIV is in the mess it's in right now.  This can only improve the game.

    Ignoring WoW was the best thing the game ever did. Releasing broken is what caused the issue.

    100% agree.

     

    I love how they throw Tanaka under a bus, or onto his own sword... and then say "Sorry, we will work to make the game more western like WoW". Honestly? You think that was the problem? For real?

     

    SE released an aborted fetus of a game. Almost every single aspect of the game was interesting in some way but broken and flawed in another. The problems spoke, not of a lack of vision, but lack of effort and time to iron the problems out. And sub contracting Chinese programmers... wow SE...wow.

     

    image

     

     

     

    My fellow FFXIV beta testers and myself all warned them too.  This product is not ready.  We told them these problems weren't simiply bugs that you could easily iron out with a simple patch or two.  Did SE realize this?  No, and they pushed a product out the door which screams red-headed step-child.  And they've paid/are paying the price for it.  They've missed out on subscription fee's for over a year now, not to mention the people who simply put the game down entirely for a time.

     

    Honestly, I'm impressed they're still working at it.  I see and anticipate what version 2.0 is going to be for this game and it's exciting. 

     

    Tabula Rasa....

  • AmsaiAmsai Montgomery, ALPosts: 88Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZizouX

    I dont' know how many people on these forums actually play FFXIV currently, or like me, have played for close to a year now.

     

    There is an overwhelming majority of FFXIV players who love Yoshi-P.   THey realize that Tanaka placed such a horrible foundation to work with that it's a small miracle what Yoshi has been able to do with the poor ui and engine.  Ifrit, Moogle and Garuda are fun fights.  Aurum Vale, Cutter's Cry and Darkhold were fun when they were released.  

     

    People, imo, generally feel that 2.0 is giving Yoshi-P a clean slate.  They think, what would FFXIV have been if Yoshi was leading it from the beginning.  2.0 is that chance, and based on what he's done to turn around a sinking ship in the meantime, makes people very excited about the prospects of FFXIV 2.0 in the future.

     

    When Yoshi-P announced that the UI will be similar to WoW and AS RESPONSIVE.  I did a virtual backflip with excitement.   A lot of people just want Final Fantasy universe and feel with a modern UI and responsiveness.  

     

    If all Yoshi-P does in 2.0 is provide the same type of content he's introduced the passed year while making the game smooth and accessible, you'll see this game reach a very healthy population.

     

    A lot of you are also underestimating the value of a PS3 release.  I know at least a dozen people who can't afford a PC to run this game and just want it released on PS3 asap.  Japan also prefers to play their mmo's, especially Final Fantasy', on consoles.

     

    I think that the majority of the naysayers on this forum are people who havn't picked up FFXIV since it launched two years ago.  Those of us who have persisted, are really impressed with Yoshi-P and we have no reason to think 2.0 won't be as great as we anticipate.

     

    Edit: Look for a "flood of information" on this site http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/ middle of August.

    I will almost agree with you. The normal content is pretty good. The EG content is a bit over the top, and is way too difficult which will drive away casuals. No one likes to be punished for not being Harcore. Thats why my brothers and a couple of my friends quit. They stuck with it for a long time, but when they realized there was a pattern of extremely punishing EG content, they all quit (i.e. extremely low drop rates, and just brutally hard EG).

    FFXIV EG content takes extreme skill and knowledge of your class (if you have a class leveled, but its not one you play a lot you will probably wipe your party), good gear (because aside from whatever else the devs put in the Boss mechanics to fuck you up, you will still likely have to deal with a DPS race against the clock, regeneration, or powerfl abilities that can 1 shot even a tank), and Knowledge of the layout/strategy (which sounds simple on paper, but knowing what to do and actually doing it are 2 different things, the biggest problem is the learning curve per event: too many phases, and too much precision needed).

    Think I'm exagerating? When AV first came out, it took my LS about 3 weeks before we even got a win, and about 5 weeks before we saw our first Darklight armor drop. On the other hand, I also play Tera, SWTOR, and Rift, and you always get some drops, and its never taken my group more than 2 times to beat anything. Yoshi  said they are supposed to increase drop rates and offer difficulty settings for 2.0. If these things are implemented well, then there is no problem. If not, then they are totally going to drive off casuals players.

    Another thing that bothers me is the lack of class balance on melee vs ranged. I really hope SE gets it right for 2.0, because so far it seems like they dont know how too. In a lot of Boss fights, aside from the tank, its suicide to come as a melee (unless you dont have any lag/ui issues and are a godly player that knows exactly what to do. There is a midboss in the game that can 1 shot all the melees with an AoE attack anytime he wants (read: no pattern). For this reason, you will find most people want you as a mage or archer/bard (if you arent the tank) for most EG.

    Dont get me wrong I like the game a lot, and if I seem critical, its because I am not a blind fan boy that thinks everything  SE shits is gold. 2.0 is there 2nd chance, and this is the last chanc they will get. They pretty much have to get it perfect........ no pressure. I have a lot of hope for this game, but if 2.0 isnt enough they might be in trouble. They need a certain amount of subs to re-coup, i dont know what that number is but not reaching it is not an option I dont think.

    @ Itgrowls: No, just no. Some of us like our turn-based like strategy driven MMO. FFXIV feels like chess. GW2 feels like an unstructured keyboard slamming zergfest. Sorry I need something more structured and strategic, I also cant stand a lack of really defined roles. I want classes to be about the trinity, not a flavor option.

    *Though my brothers seem to like GW2.............. go figure.

  • grapevinegrapevine PeterboroughPosts: 1,927Member
    Companies wanting to make their MMOs like WoW is getting real old. If people want a game like WoW, then that play WoW, not some substandard imitation.
  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Companies wanting to make their MMOs like WoW is getting real old. If people want a game like WoW, then that play WoW, not some substandard imitation.

    I guess the answer, then, is to make the game more than a substandard imitation? Dare I say, better than the original?

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon

    People that wouldn't want these changes are either A) Pretentious MMO nerds or B) Masochists

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Simcoe, ONPosts: 1,384Member
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Companies wanting to make their MMOs like WoW is getting real old. If people want a game like WoW, then that play WoW, not some substandard imitation.

    Yes, how dare they possibly want to copy a good interface for its game, they should just stick to teh crap they had before, let me guess, you didnt read anything? no suprise there.

     

    You know whats getting real old? people acting like anything that wow has is crap and no game should possibly ever use it.

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Simcoe, ONPosts: 1,384Member
    Originally posted by Dragonantis

    Nooooooo say it aint soooooooo!!!

    This is a dagger though my Final Fantasy heart!

    Them making the UI not crap puts a dagger through your heart? issues much? oh wait you didnt bother to read the article, like everyone else who just pops in and goes "omg thir making the game wow what a load of crap lolololllol"

     

    Originally posted by Belarion
    Originally posted by Garvon3
    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    Ignoring WoW is one of the largest reason FFXIV is in the mess it's in right now.  This can only improve the game.

    Ignoring WoW was the best thing the game ever did. Releasing broken is what caused the issue.

     

     

    I love how they throw Tanaka under a bus, or onto his own sword... and then say "Sorry, we will work to make the game more western like WoW". Honestly? You think that was the problem? For real?

     

     

    Ah another person that cant read, nowehre there did they EVER say anything about making the game more western like wow, not ONCE, i would know, apparently Im the only person here that actually looked at the article.

     

    The only mention of western things in teh entire article is him talking about getting his team to play western mmos, because theve never rerally played mmos before, being mainy on consoles, ooh noes! how dare they possibly want their dev team to play some games of the genre their trying ti create so they can make the game more KB/M friendly instead of purely controller focused!

     

    Seroiusley people read the article or dont post, your only making yourselves look like fools.

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Simcoe, ONPosts: 1,384Member

    double post

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • ZizouXZizouX Burbank, CAPosts: 670Member

    The  following is a translated interview (from French Article) in the official FFXIV forums when Yoshi-P was in France for the Japan Expo last week.  He talked about WoW and his conversation with Blizzard developers during E3.   You can draw conclusions for yourselves.

     


    FFU : We heard you met Blizzard. What did you talk about ? 

    Y-P: When we met Blizzard’s director, who is a die hard fan of FFVII, it started the conversation really well (laugh). 

    The conversation was mostly about managing teams, how updates are managed and additional content.
    We discussed about how WoW succeeded, their challenges and problems they face. Everythiung was detailed and precise, and passionate.

    In Blizzard’s office, there’s a human size statue with the words: “Priority is game experience”. We learned a lot from their advices, especially on how to make the game experience better for the community. We’ll try to do that for FFXIV.



    FFU : Japanese MMORPG’s are deeply different from the others. Did you think about changing the game mechanics to make it more accessible to WoW or Lotro players ?

    Y-P: You’ll recognize some aspects from popular MMORPG’s when you try out 2.0 Alpha and Beta. Especially the battle system which is now more dynamic.

    I hope you’ll enjoy the improvements. The UI will prolly be the most important change. With this new design, if you played WoW, it will be easy to feel comfortable in the game environment

     

     The Entire interview can be found here.

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/22261-Translations-%28French-English%29/page13

     

     

  • BelarionBelarion na, ONPosts: 570Member

    Lmao you whiteknights aren't going to be playing FF14 after i2.0 flops either. But you are perfectly happy to make SE feel like they are on the right track and not rethink their plans.

     

    I woudn't be surprised if, like the officail forums, the 2 people who are so adamently defending SE aren't just some SE hirelings. Trying to hype up 2.0 some more.

     

    Its very possible that SE's new plans is this. Build as much hype as they can for 2.0 and PS3 release. Get one more massive box sale period for FF14 and then coast with minimal patches and expansions, up to the point that they go F2P.

     

     

    I love snails.
    I love every kinda snail.
    I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
    Cant hug every snail.

  • BelarionBelarion na, ONPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by ZizouX

    The  following is a translated interview (from French Article) in the official FFXIV forums when Yoshi-P was in France for the Japan Expo last week.  He talked about WoW and his conversation with Blizzard developers during E3.   You can draw conclusions for yourselves.

     


    FFU : We heard you met Blizzard. What did you talk about ? 

    Y-P: When we met Blizzard’s director, who is a die hard fan of FFVII, it started the conversation really well (laugh). 

    The conversation was mostly about managing teams, how updates are managed and additional content.
    We discussed about how WoW succeeded, their challenges and problems they face. Everythiung was detailed and precise, and passionate.

    In Blizzard’s office, there’s a human size statue with the words: “Priority is game experience”. We learned a lot from their advices, especially on how to make the game experience better for the community. We’ll try to do that for FFXIV.



    FFU : Japanese MMORPG’s are deeply different from the others. Did you think about changing the game mechanics to make it more accessible to WoW or Lotro players ?

    Y-P: You’ll recognize some aspects from popular MMORPG’s when you try out 2.0 Alpha and Beta. Especially the battle system which is now more dynamic.

    I hope you’ll enjoy the improvements. The UI will prolly be the most important change. With this new design, if you played WoW, it will be easy to feel comfortable in the game environment

     

     The Entire interview can be found here.

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/22261-Translations-%28French-English%29/page13

     

     

    This is not the article I linked. For clarification to readers of this thread.

     

    In the article I linked, found on page 1,  the Dev clearly states that he wants to make the transition from WoW to FF14 as easy for WoW players as possible.

     

    He never said "only in regards to UI", you can choose to believe that if you wish. We'll see when 2.0 releases.

     

    In a new interview he talks about doing away with open world partying in favour of instanced content. Also party grinding will be removed in favour of a quest based leveling progression. Not a mixture of both but a quest only based leveling progression. Think of it like doing leves over and over. More interesting then party grinding?  But party grinding can be fun after a bit of quests and crafting. You can choose where to go, get some friends together and smash mobs. Think about having to go to A, then B, then kill C and then return to A, over and over. Interesting? Maybe for awhile. But that'll fade fast. Then its just another kind of grind. Except this one is drawn out with a shitload of text and walking to do. Woot! Replace some party grinding, with quest grinding and add shit tonnes of timesink to it. SE is definitely on the right track.

    I love snails.
    I love every kinda snail.
    I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
    Cant hug every snail.

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Belarion

    In a new interview he talks about doing away with open world partying in favour of instanced content. Also party grinding will be removed in favour of a quest based leveling progression. Not a mixture of both but a quest only based leveling progression.

    Instances will be a part of the leveling process, and they happen in groups. Open world partying being tossed out =/= partying will be removed from the process completely. Jumping into conclusions much?

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • BelarionBelarion na, ONPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by Belarion

    In a new interview he talks about doing away with open world partying in favour of instanced content. Also party grinding will be removed in favour of a quest based leveling progression. Not a mixture of both but a quest only based leveling progression.

    Instances will be a part of the leveling process, and they happen in groups. Open world partying being tossed out =/= partying will be removed from the process completely. Jumping into conclusions much?

    Guess we'll see

    I love snails.
    I love every kinda snail.
    I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
    Cant hug every snail.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAPosts: 2,898Member
    Originally posted by Belarion
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by Belarion

    In a new interview he talks about doing away with open world partying in favour of instanced content. Also party grinding will be removed in favour of a quest based leveling progression. Not a mixture of both but a quest only based leveling progression.

    Instances will be a part of the leveling process, and they happen in groups. Open world partying being tossed out =/= partying will be removed from the process completely. Jumping into conclusions much?

    Guess we'll see

    I've played enough MMORPGs over the years to know that as soon as instancing is added to a game, grouping and socializing dies. Immediately.

  • jeremyjodesjeremyjodes antioch, ORPosts: 679Member

    They all want blizzards market share. it's there doom when it blows up in their face. look at bioware. they had to learn the hard way. It's sad really, they all lack even one orginal thought when it comes to making a MMOG. it's like watching a car full of people follow another car heading for a cliff. your screaming for them to stop but they follow them right off.

     

    Sad But it's required if from the ashes are born games that move away from the themepark formula and return with a new view and ideas.

     

    image

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jeremyjodes

    They all want blizzards market share. it's there doom when it blows up in their face. look at bioware. they had to learn the hard way. It's sad really, they all lack even one orginal thought when it comes to making a MMOG. it's like watching a car full of people follow another car heading for a cliff. your screaming for them to stop but they follow them right off.

     Sad But it's required if from the ashes are born games that move away from the themepark formula and return with a new view and ideas.

    All they need is to get the existing FF demographic to play their game. All they need to do is to make the game to feel like a proper FF title. Tens of millions of potential (loyal) players that haven't even tried an MMO right there.

    Fact: It doesn't matter whether the game is novel or old if the people playing it don't know or care about anything that came before it. All that matters is that they enjoy it right there and then. Let the pitiful MMO herd bitch and move to the next game.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • SaintPhilipSaintPhilip Bree, MIPosts: 713Member

    All I havta say is this...

    When they release for PS3 I will certainly at least give it a go. Cannot wait to play a real MMO on my 60 inch Television rather than my 20 inch moniter... Plus PS3 has mouse/keyboard support so it will be a win all around I think. It will at least be a fun diversion.

  • tkoreapertkoreaper Castroville, TXPosts: 401Member Common
    Originally posted by ZizouX

    However, if you look at the content that has been added in the last year, no one in their right mind will EVER mistake FFXIV for a Wow Clone (Rift, Warhammer, Tera [other than combat], Aion, SWTOR).  FFXIV plays and feels nothing like other games on the market.  It has an aesthetic very close to FFXI, and similarities of classes/jobs... but it ends at that point.

    I find it rather disturbing that you see Rift and Warhammer as WoW Clones. First off both of those games had features and innovation that WoW didn't have at the time. WoW, if anything, has copied from these games... It's how they work. Warhammer has since died, but Rift is still going strong and has a much better developer IMO. You are correct in including Aion and SWTOR, but even Aion has some major differences. SWTOR on the other hand without it's annoying dialogue is a clone no doubt.

    Just a piece of advice, not every game since WoW's release is a clone.

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