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Just 10 skills or not?

124

Comments

  • mearimeari SydneyPosts: 101Member
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is just amazing how people elaborate theories trying to justify the gameplay in gw2 as something ¨hard¨ or ¨complex¨, i have played the last 2 BW,  GW2 is just easy from any point of view, my 10 years old nephew can play gw2 but he cant play a game like swtor, war or any other MMO with more than 5 skills. GW2 is all about ¨press 1¨ run, wait for long CDs, and run around ur target while u drink something., then use ur CDs, Press 1 and repeat.    

    Oh look it's hikaru again, guess what, there's no potion in GW2.

    Stop trying, after the number of fails you've attempts I almost feel for you.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is just amazing how people elaborate theories trying to justify the gameplay in gw2 as something ¨hard¨ or ¨complex¨, i have played the last 2 BW,  GW2 is just easy from any point of view, my 10 years old nephew can play gw2 but he cant play a game like swtor, war or any other MMO with more than 5 skills. GW2 is all about ¨press 1¨ run, wait for long CDs, and run around ur target while u drink something., then use ur CDs, Press 1 and repeat.    

     

    I think I've learnt chess at about seven years old. Yeah I know I was a late developer. Chess only has a dozen or so moves to learn, I guess that is not hard or complex either? Perhaps your observation says more about your nephew than the games you mention? Skill bloat is not a substitute for real depth, challenge, difficulty, or complexity. SWTOR is a great example where there're several skills that do the same thing depending on context. it could easily be rationalised into far fewer skills. Rift is interesting. That has many many skills and combinations, however there macro system trivialised things by allowing you to hit whatever had come off cool down with a single key or two. It epitomises is how simple some of these supposedly "complex" games really are.



    As for GW I actually found some classes quite "challenging", others less so. One thing was clear people were getting knocked down all over the place.

  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is just amazing how people elaborate theories trying to justify the gameplay in gw2 as something ¨hard¨ or ¨complex¨, i have played the last 2 BW,  GW2 is just easy from any point of view, my 10 years old nephew can play gw2 but he cant play a game like swtor, war or any other MMO with more than 5 skills. GW2 is all about ¨press 1¨ run, wait for long CDs, and run around ur target while u drink something., then use ur CDs, Press 1 and repeat.    

    Your 10 year old nephew is probably getting bored to death with the combat in SWTOR or War and having too much fun in Guild Wars 2, that's why he prefers it. I can't imagine anyone having trouble in War or SWTOR, you can win while sleeping there, no matter how many skills you have.

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,328Member Uncommon

    I was sorta concerned about having only 10 skills at first, I like to have a lot of options at my fingertips, but that fear was unfounded.

    With the weapon switching, most classes will reach 15-18 (not counting ultimate), as most have some skills bound to the F keys. With the ultimate you can usually add some more. That brings it in line with other recent MMO's imo.

     

    I personally didn't always like the switching though, it seemed to put a strain on the flow of combat on my guardian, because I was switching between greatsword & staff, I suddenly had to behave and play differently.

    Of course, some other people would see this as an added challenge. 

    I've also seen some builds where people take 2x the same weapon and then just take feats that give temporary buffs when you switch weapons, so they keep the same skills and just switch for the sake of getting buffs.

     

    The elementalist was perfect for me though: 24 base buttong (4x5 buttons for elements + F1-F4) + 5 slot skills + potential 5 ultimate skills. All the while keeping on to the same playstyle (ranged or melee, depending on what you picked).

    That class definitely goes into the upper end of the spectrum when it comes to "button heaviness".

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is just amazing how people elaborate theories trying to justify the gameplay in gw2 as something ¨hard¨ or ¨complex¨, i have played the last 2 BW,  GW2 is just easy from any point of view, my 10 years old nephew can play gw2 but he cant play a game like swtor, war or any other MMO with more than 5 skills. GW2 is all about ¨press 1¨ run, wait for long CDs, and run around ur target while u drink something., then use ur CDs, Press 1 and repeat.    

    I hope I will meet a lot of people like you in PvP :)

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by Vannor

    Allowing a full freedom drop in hotbar would completely ruin the mechanics of combat for the game. You need to think about why most people seem to prefer GW2 combat compared to other MMOs. This is one of the reasons. Is it harder than other MMOs for some people? It sure is. 

    I don't really understand this argument, perhaps you can elaborate a bit.  How would putting the buttons you want to push into convenient places on your hotbar ruin the experience?  

    The restrictions to skills and the time it takes to change your weapon/kit is built into the balance. There is a cooldown on swapping for a reason, they don't want you to be able to use all your skills.

    Also, having instant access to some skills at the same time as others would make some stupidly overpowered combinations. For example, you could have a ton of hindering moves available at the same time for an elementalist and completely disable or kite someone else.. a warrior could just constantly stun making them immortal. A Ranger could just get people up to maximum bleed, poison and burn all the time, along with having all the buffs from call of the wild available almost all the time. 

    It's selection, you have to make a choice. You have to pick the right time to swap your weapon or use your kit... pick the wrong time and you're going to be in trouble.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is just amazing how people elaborate theories trying to justify the gameplay in gw2 as something ¨hard¨ or ¨complex¨, i have played the last 2 BW,  GW2 is just easy from any point of view, my 10 years old nephew can play gw2 but he cant play a game like swtor, war or any other MMO with more than 5 skills. GW2 is all about ¨press 1¨ run, wait for long CDs, and run around ur target while u drink something., then use ur CDs, Press 1 and repeat.    

    I hope I will meet a lot of people like you in PvP :)

    Yeh, I think people like this are in for a bit of a shock when they get into PvP or in the later areas of PvE. I'd like to see someone take on that tree monster mob thing that drops the healing pods in the dark forest area in the first human zone using methods like this.. or take on risen abominations in the second human area. So many forget that the start of any game is always easier as well.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is just amazing how people elaborate theories trying to justify the gameplay in gw2 as something ¨hard¨ or ¨complex¨, i have played the last 2 BW,  GW2 is just easy from any point of view, my 10 years old nephew can play gw2 but he cant play a game like swtor, war or any other MMO with more than 5 skills. GW2 is all about ¨press 1¨ run, wait for long CDs, and run around ur target while u drink something., then use ur CDs, Press 1 and repeat.    

    I hope I will meet a lot of people like you in PvP :)

    Yeh, I think people like this are in for a bit of a shock when they get into PvP or in the later areas of PvE. I'd like to see someone take on that tree monster mob thing that drops the healing pods in the dark forest area in the first human zone using methods like this.. or take on risen abominations in the second human area. So many forget that the start of any game is always easier as well.

    Actually anyone, even the people that dont care to read or understand even what their skills exactly do can play GW2.

     

    But they will never be good at it, they just follow the zerg in both PvE and PvP, and keep wondering why they die so much. There is a difference between playing a game and being good at it.

     

    Sadly i think the majorrity will never understand the depth of certain builds and tactics, not that they will not enjoy the game, but they will just not be any good at it

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is just amazing how people elaborate theories trying to justify the gameplay in gw2 as something ¨hard¨ or ¨complex¨, i have played the last 2 BW,  GW2 is just easy from any point of view, my 10 years old nephew can play gw2 but he cant play a game like swtor, war or any other MMO with more than 5 skills. GW2 is all about ¨press 1¨ run, wait for long CDs, and run around ur target while u drink something., then use ur CDs, Press 1 and repeat.    

    I hope I will meet a lot of people like you in PvP :)

    Yeh, I think people like this are in for a bit of a shock when they get into PvP or in the later areas of PvE. I'd like to see someone take on that tree monster mob thing that drops the healing pods in the dark forest area in the first human zone using methods like this.. or take on risen abominations in the second human area. So many forget that the start of any game is always easier as well.

    I hope people like that will be the minority, it will be very hard to do DEs with lots of them around. 1-2 out of 10 shouldn't make a difference, but if most of them play that way, it will only require that much more from the "good" players

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is just amazing how people elaborate theories trying to justify the gameplay in gw2 as something ¨hard¨ or ¨complex¨, i have played the last 2 BW,  GW2 is just easy from any point of view, my 10 years old nephew can play gw2 but he cant play a game like swtor, war or any other MMO with more than 5 skills. GW2 is all about ¨press 1¨ run, wait for long CDs, and run around ur target while u drink something., then use ur CDs, Press 1 and repeat.    

    this is the reason why people only play a few hours (if really play...) must not comment a game like they know much about it. even with a Warrior that is by far the easy class to kill someone you cant most of time spam only skill 1.

    would love to see you playing on a tournament, people will smile when encounter such a noob on tournament. i bet you were playing with Warrior/Ranger on BW2 right? just pick a elementalist and spam1 and all skills, would love to see you kill someone.

    make a favour to yourself, dont comment what you clear dont know, you just lost any credibility on this forum....

     

    PvP on SWTOR is just all about rotation, if someone find SW pvp hard and find GW2 easy i seriously doubt he played both games....

  • nGumbeinGumbei New York, NYPosts: 33Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is just amazing how people elaborate theories trying to justify the gameplay in gw2 as something ¨hard¨ or ¨complex¨, i have played the last 2 BW,  GW2 is just easy from any point of view, my 10 years old nephew can play gw2 but he cant play a game like swtor, war or any other MMO with more than 5 skills. GW2 is all about ¨press 1¨ run, wait for long CDs, and run around ur target while u drink something., then use ur CDs, Press 1 and repeat.    

    I hope I will meet a lot of people like you in PvP :)

    Yeh, I think people like this are in for a bit of a shock when they get into PvP or in the later areas of PvE. I'd like to see someone take on that tree monster mob thing that drops the healing pods in the dark forest area in the first human zone using methods like this.. or take on risen abominations in the second human area. So many forget that the start of any game is always easier as well.

    Actually anyone, even the people that dont care to read or understand even what their skills exactly do can play GW2.

     

    But they will never be good at it, they just follow the zerg in both PvE and PvP, and keep wondering why they die so much. There is a difference between playing a game and being good at it.

     

    Sadly i think the majorrity will never understand the depth of certain builds and tactics, not that they will not enjoy the game, but they will just not be any good at it

     

    This is basically what happens and later on, threads will blow the forums calling GW2 for an un-balanced game. It is easy to play but hard to master and don´t await that u will be able to play the harder areas later in the game with an easy style. When you die every 30 seconds but still do complete the mission isn´t a sign that u r good. It means that the other guys playing with u are actually playing very very well, so they can ignore the lack of help coming from u !

    PS. I have also heard it from many that GW2 is kinda simple and all u need to do is just jump in the dynamics where u cast spells and attacks everywhere and so the quest is done. Well, this is basically not the case, and if u r playing like that, u r prob doing the whole thing worng. Anet made the game in the begining simple after many reports from players that it is kinad too hard sometimes. They made it, so u can get used to this game-style, step by step ;) Later on, you will have prob, to understand who u r fighting with as much as who u r fighting against to fid the best solution for the different situations in-game.

     

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,328Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by p_c_sousaou

     PvP on SWTOR is just all about rotation, if someone find SW pvp hard and find GW2 easy i seriously doubt he played both games....

    PvP in SWTOR right now (at 50) is about group composition. That said, TOR is one of the most button intensive MMO's that I've ever played. For some classes especially, one can find a use for nearly everything on the hotbars, making the skill cap between a good and an average player quite noticeable.

    However, I suggest we leave such comparisons out of this, they're basically a big billboard saying "Let the trolling commence!"

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl
    Originally posted by p_c_sousaou

     PvP on SWTOR is just all about rotation, if someone find SW pvp hard and find GW2 easy i seriously doubt he played both games....

    PvP in SWTOR right now (at 50) is about group composition. That said, TOR is one of the most button intensive MMO's that I've ever played. For some classes especially, one can find a use for nearly everything on the hotbars, making the skill cap between a good and an average player quite noticeable.

    However, I suggest we leave such comparisons out of this, they're basically a big billboard saying "Let the trolling commence!"

    Back to guildwars 2 indeed, how about this Necromancer build that has 33 skills (not including downed or underwater)

    http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=3822g04m4p894qh93e0akkk5t65h7hdhhhmhq

     

    And it only uses 12 buttons 1,2 ... 9, 0  F1 and '

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl
    Originally posted by p_c_sousaou

     PvP on SWTOR is just all about rotation, if someone find SW pvp hard and find GW2 easy i seriously doubt he played both games....

    PvP in SWTOR right now (at 50) is about group composition. That said, TOR is one of the most button intensive MMO's that I've ever played. For some classes especially, one can find a use for nearly everything on the hotbars, making the skill cap between a good and an average player quite noticeable.

    Sadly, that "skill cap" is also determined by gear (expertise)... :(

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,328Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
     

    Back to guildwars 2 indeed, how about this Necromancer build that has 33 skills (not including downed or underwater)

    http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=3822g04m4p894qh93e0akkk5t65h7hdhhhmhq

     

    And it only uses 12 buttons 1,2 ... 9, 0  F1 and '

    Totally forgot about the pet skills, though I hated pets on my necro :p

    But yeah, I do like the skills that you have to press twice for a different effect, especially the ones you drop off. Makes positioning that much more important.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • lilHealalilHeala ZwollePosts: 513Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
     

    I don't know how advanced you got at PvP in WoW, but I don't think you give it the credit it deserves for how many different skills are available and *important* to use throughout an Arena match. 10 buttons is just a painfully small amount compared to the reality.

     

    You're saying WoW is the reality? rofl

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lilHeala

    Originally posted by colddog04
     

    I don't know how advanced you got at PvP in WoW, but I don't think you give it the credit it deserves for how many different skills are available and *important* to use throughout an Arena match. 10 buttons is just a painfully small amount compared to the reality.

     

    You're saying WoW is the reality? rofl

     

    No, but he is making avalid comparrison that everyone should be able to understand.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • lilHealalilHeala ZwollePosts: 513Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by lilHeala
    Originally posted by colddog04
     

    I don't know how advanced you got at PvP in WoW, but I don't think you give it the credit it deserves for how many different skills are available and *important* to use throughout an Arena match. 10 buttons is just a painfully small amount compared to the reality.

     

    You're saying WoW is the reality? rofl

     

    No, but he is making avalid comparrison that everyone should be able to understand.

    Not arguing the content of his post just found the wording to be funny.

    And I don't see the point of listing the skills to be used in PvP on 1 specific class in WoW, could've also just kept it to the general explanation. I could also list all of the skills I use on my minstrel in LOTRO in most fights or of my A.S. spec'd commando in SWTOR or my Chloro in Rift, it's just not necesary to make the point.

  • Flaming_MMOFlaming_MMO Jefferson, GAPosts: 137Member
    Originally posted by TGSOL

    GW2 definitely allows for more than just 10 skills to be used in any given fight. The problem is simply that people have become so accustomed to seeing this:

     

    that when they see a compact UI with few health bars no more than 10 action-bar slots like this:

     

    they freak out and think that GW2 must be incredibly simplistic and limiting. Nobody stops to think that maybe ten-thousand hot-bars and health-bars all sucking up 95% of their screen real estate is maybe not so much a sign of complexity and freedom but of bloat and over-saturation.

    I say come back in a year.  Its the players who are going to end up overcomplicating things and create those UIs that take up the whole screen and they will always have followers who sing their praises no matter how obtrustive, unnecessary and obnoxious they (the UIs, but probably some of the people too) are.

    I mean I would prefer if it does not happen but in a game that will be as popular as GW2, I dont see that NOT happening.  For those who like the current GW2 interface, then stick with it enjoy it and dont download this crap when it comes out.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by Flaming_MMO

    I say come back in a year.  Its the players who are going to end up overcomplicating things and create those UIs that take up the whole screen and they will always have followers who sing their praises no matter how obtrustive, unnecessary and obnoxious they (the UIs, but probably some of the people too) are.

    I mean I would prefer if it does not happen but in a game that will be as popular as GW2, I dont see that NOT happening.  For those who like the current GW2 interface, then stick with it enjoy it and dont download this crap when it comes out.

    There are no UI addons in GW2, and ArenaNET firmly said that they don't want any.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by Flaming_MMO

    I say come back in a year.  Its the players who are going to end up overcomplicating things and create those UIs that take up the whole screen and they will always have followers who sing their praises no matter how obtrustive, unnecessary and obnoxious they (the UIs, but probably some of the people too) are.

    I mean I would prefer if it does not happen but in a game that will be as popular as GW2, I dont see that NOT happening.  For those who like the current GW2 interface, then stick with it enjoy it and dont download this crap when it comes out.

    GW2 will not have UI mods. Anet's flat out stated it. 

     

     

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lilHeala
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by lilHeala
    Originally posted by colddog04
     

    I don't know how advanced you got at PvP in WoW, but I don't think you give it the credit it deserves for how many different skills are available and *important* to use throughout an Arena match. 10 buttons is just a painfully small amount compared to the reality.

     

    You're saying WoW is the reality? rofl

     

    No, but he is making avalid comparrison that everyone should be able to understand.

    Not arguing the content of his post just found the wording to be funny.

    And I don't see the point of listing the skills to be used in PvP on 1 specific class in WoW, could've also just kept it to the general explanation. I could also list all of the skills I use on my minstrel in LOTRO in most fights or of my A.S. spec'd commando in SWTOR or my Chloro in Rift, it's just not necesary to make the point.

    It seems like you didn't read the post that I had quoted before you read my own. It was a post that was meant to be a response to the person I quoted. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

  • Flaming_MMOFlaming_MMO Jefferson, GAPosts: 137Member
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by Flaming_MMO

    I say come back in a year.  Its the players who are going to end up overcomplicating things and create those UIs that take up the whole screen and they will always have followers who sing their praises no matter how obtrustive, unnecessary and obnoxious they (the UIs, but probably some of the people too) are.

    I mean I would prefer if it does not happen but in a game that will be as popular as GW2, I dont see that NOT happening.  For those who like the current GW2 interface, then stick with it enjoy it and dont download this crap when it comes out.

    GW2 will not have UI mods. Anet's flat out stated it. 

     

     

    Thats good to hear, hopefully they stick to that.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Flaming_MMO
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by Flaming_MMO

    I say come back in a year.  Its the players who are going to end up overcomplicating things and create those UIs that take up the whole screen and they will always have followers who sing their praises no matter how obtrustive, unnecessary and obnoxious they (the UIs, but probably some of the people too) are.

    I mean I would prefer if it does not happen but in a game that will be as popular as GW2, I dont see that NOT happening.  For those who like the current GW2 interface, then stick with it enjoy it and dont download this crap when it comes out.

    GW2 will not have UI mods. Anet's flat out stated it. 

     

     

    Thats good to hear, hopefully they stick to that.

    Offcourse they do, its the core of a good sPvP game, every one is equall and has equall tools... cheer on with competitive PvP

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • srpssrps SetubalPosts: 116Member
    Originally posted by Flaming_MMO
    Originally posted by TGSOL

    GW2 definitely allows for more than just 10 skills to be used in any given fight. The problem is simply that people have become so accustomed to seeing this:

     

    that when they see a compact UI with few health bars no more than 10 action-bar slots like this:

     

    they freak out and think that GW2 must be incredibly simplistic and limiting. Nobody stops to think that maybe ten-thousand hot-bars and health-bars all sucking up 95% of their screen real estate is maybe not so much a sign of complexity and freedom but of bloat and over-saturation.

    I say come back in a year.  Its the players who are going to end up overcomplicating things and create those UIs that take up the whole screen and they will always have followers who sing their praises no matter how obtrustive, unnecessary and obnoxious they (the UIs, but probably some of the people too) are.

    I mean I would prefer if it does not happen but in a game that will be as popular as GW2, I dont see that NOT happening.  For those who like the current GW2 interface, then stick with it enjoy it and dont download this crap when it comes out.

    That WoW UI is an exaggerated bloated mess, most WoW players don't have half of that stuff on screen. I'm not sure if it's a "real" interface or someone trolling, as there's too much useless crap in the bars.

    Still I find the default GW2 UI cleaner than WoW's one. We could compare it to other games' UIs also, like Rift, SWTOR, TSW.

     

    I tend to prefer games with UI mods support. AFAIK GW2 won't have it, let's see how nice they can keep the UI

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