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A random dude made a MOD, just a MOD, in his spare time.
Launched in April, 2 months later, he had 400.000 unique users/sells
What he did?
Just used the blueprint for the success we know since Ultima Online.
Design based on Freedom, consequences, things that make sense.
And the game is stitched together with bandaids and glue, in his basement. Half assed everything.
But it doesnt matter, because Its a game where the human factor is the "entertainment"
Its called DayZ.
First big investor who realizes the factor of success is a design based on Freedom and makes an "AAA" MMO, jackpots and starts a new age in gaming.
Fuck TSW "setting" and "lore", Fuck STWOR "story" and "voice overs". THESE GAMES HAVE NO POINT.
I agree to blame society, not just the people but how its evovling in its totality.
You can't blame people for wanting more faster and quicker, just look at advertising and what it is doing. They are molding and shaping consumers into ATMS. I remember reading somewhere that Americans on average spend 95% of their income.
We spend nearly all we have as consumers. If we need something, we buy it, if something breaks, its easier to just buy another one.
On another note, it has become a more noticable trend that MMOs have been catering towards single or solo play content. When you can play an mmo without interacting with another player, you're going to run out of things to do. Community is a big factor (imo) that drives replayability and it has been neglected by many mmos. The last mmo i played was Rift, while it was fun and great I quit because I couldn't connect with the story/lore (because there largely isn't one; that and its just bad, I mean I can mail items/money to another character of an opposing faction??? The faction system/lore behind it is sparse but thats another story). I played rift from 1-50 all by myself except for the what 6 or so dungeons u can do every now and then. Not to mention the zone events where nobody talked to eachother. Many mmos are becoming overglorified singleplayer games where the thought of being able to play with a bunch of other people whenever is there largely for comfort and not necessarily for the intentions of playing with said people anyways.
The OP himself fell into this trap of impatientness, as it seems he's worried if not the playerbase is falling. Why does it matter? games always have communities even if its 500 to 500000. Honestly the more people play, the shittier the game is in my experiences. OP you don't need a large community for a game to have a great experience. There will always be casuals who jump in for a month or so and dip. Thats who mmos are trying to target nowadays. Mmoers were people who knew what they were getting into, it was more of an investment of a community like nestling a new home, today it is just an experience- the community is just a bonus.
Btw im 20, part of that gimmie gimmie generation, although I am naturally patient!
Originally posted by PsychowI'm sure a lot of people will disagree, but I think MMO's need to get rid of the current trend of ultra fast leveling. But provide content to engage us during the LONG ride to max level. It'd make those mid-level dungeons more meaningful and people will become more attached to their character after the long road. Maybe unlock a "fast leveling" buff for alts once you have a character at max level. You can still have "end-game"...but hopefully people aren't reaching it 3 days after release....
I actually agree with this point of view. The change however would have to be from the developers and publishers. They want to build games that attract millions of players instead of a fraction of that.
The truth is that few MMO gamers want to evolve a character over a long period of time and when that is present in most games they get overwhelmed by hacks and bots more often than not.
More on topic; impatient players are not defined by age. I know players in a variety of age brackets that want instant gratification and want everything now. I quipped to a man I know just other night asking "how many accounts do you think were hacked in order to get your gold?" after finding out he bought some from a seller for WOW. I don't approve of his choice, but he is 50 something and obviously did not want to get the currency through any legitimate means.
I have no idea what "generation" a player like this falls into. I have been gaming for about 30 years depending on ones definition of gaming. Does Pong count? My first real computer used a cassette player for saving games. I had to flip over the tapes and change them for the more complex ones. Laughable I know!
I have had long breaks from gaming throughout my life too. There was a point back in the 90s where consoles were just just making the transition to using disks instead of cartridges. I just didn't have the money at the time to buy new machines. I didn't play an MMO until 2007. What generation am I in context to this thread?
I don't really want to know that answer to that question.
I believe that we are all just undergoing a transition. Our expectations are higher, our appetites are grand, and the developers have not yet figured out what and how to feed us anymore. Perhaps as I suggested in my reply to the above quote, less is more.
Originally posted by soulfly205 On another note, it has become a more noticable trend that MMOs have been catering towards single or solo play content. When you can play an mmo without interacting with another player, you're going to run out of things to do.
That sounds reasonable but in reality I think its more likely that ease of completing content is more important in runnning out of things to do than whether you do it solo or in a group.
I played EQ1 for years, probably 90% of it was solo and I never ran out of things to do. Hell it took me 6 months to get from level 1 to level 60. It took me 1 year to complete my epic alone. I spent a good week of effort just to get my first pair of JBoots, now the equivelent type of item could be obtained in 30 minutes off a 100% reliably spawning mob in a 100% reliably respawning on command dungeon or 100% reliable quest or I could just use the CC to buy it from a item shop.
Its not single or solo play, its MMO's catering to trivial content so everyone can be a hero with the best armor in no time at all.
Originally posted by Acvivm Originally posted by comrademario
Or should the gaming companies hold off releasing a game until it's 100%?
That ^ is a good start right there....
I dont know if the "impatient" gamer catch all is the right word to describe what is happening anymore because there are so many elements compounding together that are leading to the problems we have today. Its very easy to blame it all on the gamers but I think game developers are just as guilty.
More and more developers are rushing their games out the door unfinished, riddled with bugs, with limited content that they know gamers are going to blow through quickly and criticize down to the smallest detail. Not only are they releasing fast and full of problems but they are charging $60 and a subscription (alongside a cash shop for some) for games that are obviously very unfinished. Some games are a blatant cash grab, trying to get the most out of the gamers wallets as fast as possible before the inevitable problems start to become known and they go F2P.
If this was 2003-04, I could understand technical problems...bugs....lack of content...but its 2012, MMOs are a dime a dozen, there are hundreds of great games competing for peoples time, gamers are getting older and have less and less time to play. If developers are releasing MMOs that can't compete mechanically, as well as content wise with the competition there is a good chance that they aren't going to be successful or hold people for long. Its very easy to say "gamers are impatient" but there has to be a point where we say "enough is enough".We need to start holding developers responsible for the games they release, stop making excuses for them when they fail to fix problems (that continue to go unfixed long after beta) and take months upon months to release content updates.
If developers aren't ready to bring their A game to the table from the start, they shouldn't even bother because its only going to be bad for them to release a unfinished game in an already oversaturated market. One way to fight this, just like the OP suggested, is to make sure your game is 100% finished from the get go. Having a working game that doesn't take months to clean up can go a long way to keeping people playing since they have less time to focus on flaws and more time to focus on playing.
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Originally posted by comrademario Just reading about a hoarde of people quitting Secret World and saying they're done with the game. This has been released for a couple of weeks now. Rift, SWTOR, D3 and a lot of other games have seen similar comments being made them, hell there are even people saying screw GW2 and that they won't go back before it's even friggin launched. So my question is, are modern gamers just too impatient? I would say 100% of MMOs need time to iron out flaws, rework certain aspects of the game and just grow the thing before it can be considered polished. I know that a game that leaves beta and goes live should have all of these things done in advance, but it wasn't always like that, even WoW needed time to have the game live to gather feedback from players to help improve it. So is it modern gamers at fault (I would suggest that console gamers crossing into MMOs would have a lot less patience than old timers from 10 years ago)? Or should the gaming companies hold off releasing a game until it's 100%? To answer my own question I think it's importany for a game to get released to open beta asap. We all knows that even a hint of postponing or dragging out release dates can be a death knell for a game. I would also suggest that a company will never know it's near 100% until players actually get in, play the game and give their feedback
Impatient to say that they personally don't like a game and are quitting.NO crybabys for coming here to perposly try to ruin everyones elses good time YES. Different strokes for different folks.
I don't think modern gamers are too impatient. I think the impatient gamers are those, who remember that there were times, when games that got released did work as intended. Nowadays, most companies release broken half-working wreckages, saying "oh, we can patch that later".
In the end, it also depends on the specific flaws you are talking about. Is it a typo in a text? Who cares. The developer then didn't pay as much attention as he should, but it doesn't matter that much. Is it a constant crash, or whole mechanics of the game not working at all? Then this simply shows, that the developer has a "I don't give a crap about the users" mentality.
Also, about the "even wow needed time" aspect: yes. Sure did. But at the same time, developers can look back at other games already released, and say "ok, they made that mistake, we can do it better", instead of saying "they made that mistake, then we can do that too".
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Originally posted by majiI don't think modern gamers are too impatient. I think the impatient gamers are those, who remember that there were times, when games that got released did work as intended. Nowadays, most companies release broken half-working wreckages, saying "oh, we can patch that later".In the end, it also depends on the specific flaws you are talking about. Is it a typo in a text? Who cares. The developer then didn't pay as much attention as he should, but it doesn't matter that much. Is it a constant crash, or whole mechanics of the game not working at all? Then this simply shows, that the developer has a "I don't give a crap about the users" mentality.Also, about the "even wow needed time" aspect: yes. Sure did. But at the same time, developers can look back at other games already released, and say "ok, they made that mistake, we can do it better", instead of saying "they made that mistake, then we can do that too".
Back in my day we used to walk up four hills both ways just to get to the bus stop. Damn kids have it easy now.
In seriousness you guys are rediculous.
But to clear it up, no. Geeks are still geeks, we just aren't the only ones playing games anymore. But this whole my generation was better than this new generation just sounds like some old jaded man sitting on his porch yelling at the kids crossing the street.
Yes I played SWTOR.
Originally posted by Hauvarn Back in my day we used to walk up four hills both ways just to get to the bus stop. Damn kids have it easy now. In seriousness you guys are rediculous. But to clear it up, no. Geeks are still geeks, we just aren't the only ones playing games anymore. But this whole my generation was better than this new generation just sounds like some old jaded man sitting on his porch yelling at the kids crossing the street.
Except when you compare the WWII generation's drive and "do it yourself" nature, versus the spoiled and uselss ones coming after them. Then you get a clear idea of how it's possible that an earlier generation is WAY better than the current one.
Same applies to gamer mentalities, but I wouldn't expect someone fresh out of high school to understand either point.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Remember when EQ1 was one of the few choices of games to play of that calibre? it wasn't a matter of patience really, it was one of the best games in its time, so you just had to live with the bugs and enjoy the amazing game because of how immersive and groundbreaking it was.
Current MMO: WoW/GW2
Without a doubt, Yes!
Originally posted by GTwander Originally posted by Hauvarn
I gave this thread the benefit of the doubt, but all it turned out to be is another circle jerk thread for old-timers.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ In 1 word: Yes. Player nowadays expect everything to be perfect, flawless, without any type of problems.
When MMO's nowadays have no features that distinguish them from the rest, you'd bet the players would at least expect the next pile of more of the same to be at least up to par with the competition.
Stop blaming the consumer for the fact that the industry is full of crap.
Originally posted by Hyanmen Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
perfect, flawless, without any type of problems.
no features that distinguish them from the rest
Any tell us who has won the grand prize on today's episode of Create the Most Extreme Forum Hyperbole™, Merril?!
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
i say it differently , since the evolution of game industry forces companies to start hyping their upcoming " mmo " so early stage
so its been talked for years n years people grow tired of waiting and there comes the " being impatient "
now you can say its important so you can maximise the intrests of gamers about your product but theres also this other side
wich you call " impatience " unfortunately.
Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by Hyanmen Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
perfect, flawless, without any type of problems.
What is the point of pointing and laughing if you don't point and laugh?
Originally posted by Quirhid What is the point of pointing and laughing if you don't point and laugh?
The reward is a lifetime supply of Dinty Moore Beef Stew.
I find that pretty chuckle-worthy.
The issue rather lies with players' expectations and the games.Out of some unexplicable reason a significant chunk of players thinks that you have to cap your toon in order to participate at end game. And only end game looks meaningful to them. This in turn makes everything that comes before superfluous. Why do you need grouping before end game? Just do the quests (single player galore). This in turns leads to everything before endgame being too easy. Where is the challenge in that? Why should you wait several months before you can start with meaningful group play? Additionally the content is gated by gear requirements (real and/or imaginary made up by the playerbase). Which in turn will lead you to repeat a small bit of the available content. Kudos to everyone that doesn't get sick after some time.When playing your first MMO you'll put up with this. Even with the second. Maybe even with a third. But if you try out every single MMO on the market you rather have to question yourself. Why am I doing this?Sometimes I feel better off playing old CRPGs because they aren't tainted by "modern" game concepts (aka handholding). And some allow you to micromanage a whole party which is great for the strategic/tactical aspects of combat. Some CRPGs even have better storytelling / conversation options / game choices than current MMOs (*winks at SWTOR*).
Originally posted by Quirhid Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by Hyanmen Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
perfect, flawless, without any type of problems.
Oh cmon. I'm tied AND lost. Or did i? I did vote "me" or should i voted for "me"?
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ Oh cmon. I'm tied AND lost. Or did i? I did vote "me" or should i voted for "me"?
That's ok, have you ever tasted Dinty Moore? This is not a grand prize you want to win.
Looking back at the MMO games I have played, I've had a few revelations and I just wanted to make note of a couple things:
First off, let me start by saying that I have played Final Fantasy 11 for around 6+ years. What kept me playing that game for such a rather large chunk of my life? Let's go with a series of questions approach. Was this game released with an extra-ordinary amount of content on release date? No. Was this product released one hundred (100) percent bug-free and ran like a freshly oiled machine? No. Did I purchase this game and endure Square-Enix's loathsome membership sign-up and updating process expecting either of these things to be true? No, and I believe that's the most important part. Was this game filled with long, grind filled nights and weekends? You bet your arse. Did I meet and communicate with many other players in my journeys across Vana'diel and did I genuinely enjoy my time there? Absolutely.
What an MMO game means to me is hard to sum in a simple forum post, but there are quite a few things that are to be expected, at least for me. An expectation for hard-to-obtain items and progression is something I'm come to realize is a given. I don't expect, nor do I want to be spoon fed content and gear. What is the point of that? Where is the sense of reward or accomplishment for attaining that epic weapon or piece of apparel if every single chimp with a credit card on the server has one as well? This isn't a single player game, and making it so that everyone and their brother has that awesome weapon is making an open-ended MMO experience feel linear and altogether way too scripted for my tastes. Now, I'm not going to play the generational card and blame others for their patience levels but I do know that as for me, myself and I, perhaps I'm just a patient person.
A MMO is a journey, it's a process; Hell, I'll even go so far as to call it an adventure. Once again, this is not a single-player game. This is not something I want to play through once and put it down. Why not? The answer is quite simple: I'm paying a subscription fee to play. An MMO evolves over time, adding more content and story as well as other diversions to occupy your time spent there. It's not just a game, it's an experience. Time for a comparison: Do you go to a bar simply to drink liquor? Typically, no, although I have been guilty of this a time or two in the past. A man or woman goes to a bar to drink and meet up with friends, or go on a date, or shoot pool, or to watch a game in a social setting, et cetera. The point is, there's more to it than just the base purpose.
Currently, I'm trudging through an experience with Final Fantasy 14. There are so many misgivings and problems with this product and I'm not going to go into it in this post but I just wanted to point out that the questions that I asked about FFXI (11) above in this, have the same answers when asked about FFXIV (14). Are they working on the product with updates and new content? Definately, and I certainly can see evidence of this. Why? Because I've been playing the game for longer than two weeks. I didn't level to max in a matter of weeks and experience all of the content that the game has to offer. That, and I truly enjoy my time with the friends I've met in my linkshells(guilds for people unfamiliar with the structure of Final Fantasy online titles).
Humbly, I see a problem with the pacing of MMO's on today's market. I'm sorry to say it, but this whole online, role-playing market needs more grind-fests in my opinion. Nothing worth doing in life comes easy, nor does it comes cheap. Time is money, but after the long haul it's a damn good feeling to know that I got it done. I've completed something most people who play haven't. I have things that other people might not. To me, that seems exactly what life is all about. Work hard and you'll be rewarded.
Now, I'm not so much of a jackass to go and say that every online role-playing game on the market needs to follow this formula. Absolutely not, variety is the spice of life. I do believe there is definitely a lack of understanding as to why people are unhappy with games. This is really just me sharing some of my thoughts on the genre.
So who's to blame for this problem? This may be a hard pill to swallow, but I honestly believe that everyone is in the wrong at some level. We can all agree that the amount of people getting on their computer to play games, online games in particular, has swelled over the past decade - that's a given. There's many people who go into a newly released MMO on day one, expecting the moon and they are quite promptly disappointed when they don't receive it. They go into an MMO looking for quick-fix entertainment and instant gratification. Honestly, sometimes I fire up a single-player game or even go play a few rounds on a FPS for just that very reason. Sometimes I'm looking for more. There's a flip side to this coin though, the game developers.
Probably one of the most troubling things I've been seeing lately is this whole free-to-play solution to MMO's. Accountability seems to be lacking with these game developers. "If we can't keep a huge subscription base playing this game, we'll make the game F2P and go with micro-transactions." This is such bullshit. Here's a thought, develop something people want to pay for. Put the time and the investment in and keep adding on content to your product, make it into an adventure, something people will want to opt-in for the long haul. This whole, make big money now on box sales now and recoup our development costs fast crap has got to go. Where does WoW make all of it's money? On selling the game and it's expansion packs? Hell no, they make it from the millions of monthly subscribers, not to mention the hourly ones in Asia. Did WoW start off with that kind of subscription base? I think not. I'll say it once again: It's a process. In fact, I think that's what my whole rant here has been about.
It's a process people. Everyone has different tastes. Everyone is looking for different things. What satisfies X doesn't necessarily solve for Y as well, and who's to say that might not change years down the road. It's a process.
Before I get flamed for some of my opinions, keep in mind that's just what they are, opinions. Thanks for reading...
If i owned a studio (with no publisher/stockholders to report to)
I would release the game as planned bugs or no (barring any insane game breaking bugs). While spamming the forums and other media that "ITS AN MMO. ITS A BIG FSKING GAME ITS GOING TO HAVE BUGS". This would weed out the undesirable customers who demand perfection with every game they migrate to.
I would keep the number of servers as planned. unless all servers are getting blowed up, there will be no expansion of servers (avoid the mythic mistake). This will weed out the, "OMG I HAD TO WAIT IN THE QUEUE FOR 30 SECONDS I QUIT!" crowd.
the forums, to be ruled with an iron fist.
"I quit" posts will be met with much joy from the customer service dept. with, "According to XXX post, we see that you have announced your cancelation of your subscription, however, our records do not reflect your decision. Since you appear to be entirely too busy in your life to cancel your sub, we have taken the liberty of closing your account for you and have refunded your month back you to. If you wish to re-subscribe you may do so [link]here[/link]. However, please be aware that this account will be permanantly set to read only status for our forums for breaking the 'do not make i quit posts' rule."
or some other post along those lines, you get the idea.
ya, such a studio would never achieve blizzard numbers, but thats the idea. I would not be out to win the lottery, a mentality that seems to have polluted much of the industry.
Originally posted by GTwander Originally posted by Hauvarn Back in my day we used to walk up four hills both ways just to get to the bus stop. Damn kids have it easy now. In seriousness you guys are rediculous. But to clear it up, no. Geeks are still geeks, we just aren't the only ones playing games anymore. But this whole my generation was better than this new generation just sounds like some old jaded man sitting on his porch yelling at the kids crossing the street.
I guess your right, I don't get it. If only I was born 5 years back I would understand everything there is about anything.
Oh how times have changed. But not really. WWI generation most likely said these same things about the WWII generation; who said these things about the korean generation; who said those same things about the vietnam; who as you guessed it, are saying the same things about the next generation.
Keep looking back old man, maybe something will happen.