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When quests get too twitchy // hard -- they should get easier with fails

centkincentkin Asbury, NJPosts: 943Member Uncommon

The first example I had of this was in vanguard.  The way the horse quest was initially timed I simply couldnt manage it.  I always failed.  Most other people did not have a problem but here I was after literally trying it 50 times still unable to qualify for a mount. 

With the trend towards more twitchy elements in games, I expect to see this a lot more.  There was recently a quest in tera that I gave up on.  It was the final quest in the argon war storyline.  Thankfully I do not need the reward but that quest will stare me in the face in perpetuity. 

Now fail quests arent necessarily bad if they do not provide a reward that you really cant get otherwise or do not stand in the way of other quests in a long quest line.  If you can't manage to do the twitchy part in part 2 of a 12 part quest then you do not qualify ever for the dungeon at the end -- well then there is a major problem.

There was one quest in asheron's call where I seriously considered giving out my account information so it could be completed for me after failing about 5 times and having the rest of the people give up on me being there and the last person who couldnt do it.

----

At any rate, twitchy quests like a mount obstacle course should get easier with every fail past the 3rd fail.  If the time needed to get the mount is 1:50 then on the 4th try it should be 1:51, and on the 10th try say 2:00. 

Some other quests if it notices you failed them enough times should give you a bye option if it is in a quest chain. 

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I feel this will become more and more an issue as gamers get older and older.

Comments

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Last year I had to get a new computer and was startled to discover that just a small difference in UI responsiveness made a black-and-white difference in the difficulty of certain quests (especially when trying to rapidly click on small scuttling mobs).

    An adaptable difficulty that calibrated to my success/failure would have been appreciated on the old computer.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,989Member Uncommon

    As a somewhat "older" gamer I understand your frustration.  So far I'm able to get through most quests, but it can be pretty touch and go sometimes and I certainly fail more often than some of the less "seasoned" gamers.

    As long as the quest isn't vital to the main story line (such as giving you a 1st mount) I don't mind if some quests just can't be completed by me.

    I've learned to live with my limitations which is why you'll rarely see me in a dungeon unless its with like minded guildmates and friends who can be a bit more understanding of my follies (and lack of skill) some time.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,714Member Uncommon

    Yet more evidence of the need for difficulty options in MMORPGs.

    Every player always wants the perfect challenge for them, and there's really no reason any given game shouldn't offer it.  I mean clearly you should be rewarded appropriate to the challenge you tackle (and tackling the toughest challenge you can beat should always result in the highest rate of rewards) but there's just no sense in games letting players get stuck or (as is often the case for skilled players) being completely bored because things are tuned too easy.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
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  • zekeofevzekeofev Mesa, AZPosts: 233Member

    Most MMOs are way to easy and everyone can do them.

     

    I perfer gated content because it gives me satisfaction that my character skill/build/stats + my use of him resulted in something worth acomplishing. In fact I actively seek out quests/objectives that other people complain about because that is where I know I will find great satisfaction.

     

    That said, I am suprised that modern MMOs don't do what you ask.

  • arcanistarcanist johannesbergPosts: 163Member

    there should be no rewards exclusively available to quests. you should do quests becuase they are fun, not becuase they give rewards. If a person hates doing quests he should have an alternate option.

  • HellSingsHellSings Toronto, ONPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by centkin

    The first example I had of this was in vanguard.  The way the horse quest was initially timed I simply couldnt manage it.  I always failed.  Most other people did not have a problem but here I was after literally trying it 50 times still unable to qualify for a mount. 

    With the trend towards more twitchy elements in games, I expect to see this a lot more.  There was recently a quest in tera that I gave up on.  It was the final quest in the argon war storyline.  Thankfully I do not need the reward but that quest will stare me in the face in perpetuity. 

    Now fail quests arent necessarily bad if they do not provide a reward that you really cant get otherwise or do not stand in the way of other quests in a long quest line.  If you can't manage to do the twitchy part in part 2 of a 12 part quest then you do not qualify ever for the dungeon at the end -- well then there is a major problem.

    There was one quest in asheron's call where I seriously considered giving out my account information so it could be completed for me after failing about 5 times and having the rest of the people give up on me being there and the last person who couldnt do it.

    ----

    At any rate, twitchy quests like a mount obstacle course should get easier with every fail past the 3rd fail.  If the time needed to get the mount is 1:50 then on the 4th try it should be 1:51, and on the 10th try say 2:00. 

    Some other quests if it notices you failed them enough times should give you a bye option if it is in a quest chain. 

    ---

    I feel this will become more and more an issue as gamers get older and older.

    What do you mean by 'Twitchy' quests?

  • centkincentkin Asbury, NJPosts: 943Member Uncommon

    Twitchy quests are quests that require a large amount of manual dexterity to complete. 

    Examples:

    Doing an obstacle course to qualify for a mount.

    Long jumping sequences where if you fail you fall to your death or have to start the segment over

    Practically anything with a short timer attached.

     

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by centkin

    Twitchy quests are quests that require a large amount of manual dexterity to complete. 

    Examples:

    Doing an obstacle course to qualify for a mount.

    Long jumping sequences where if you fail you fall to your death or have to start the segment over

    Practically anything with a short timer attached.

     

    Seriously?  I have yet to play an MMO game that is even remotely twitchy.  The Lotro mount 'race' for example was not hard to do.  The obstacles were few and far between, the timing didn't have to be perfect, and if you do it right, you see there is plenty of time left over at the end.  If for some reason you can't figure it out, move on.  Stop trying to dumb the game down for everyone else.  That's how we ended up in Themepark Hell in the first place.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • TrionicusTrionicus Fort Lauderdale, FLPosts: 497Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    As a somewhat "older" gamer I understand your frustration.  So far I'm able to get through most quests, but it can be pretty touch and go sometimes and I certainly fail more often than some of the less "seasoned" gamers.

    As long as the quest isn't vital to the main story line (such as giving you a 1st mount) I don't mind if some quests just can't be completed by me.

    I've learned to live with my limitations which is why you'll rarely see me in a dungeon unless its with like minded guildmates and friends who can be a bit more understanding of my follies (and lack of skill) some time.

     

    I'm at that point now where I'm getting a little bit older and completely willing to sacrifice slightly more difficult quests that I would have completed were I younger and had more energy to waste, say hiding behind a tree while the mob can't hit me type strategy.

    I'm not even willing to attempt it anymore. Even FPS games are significantly less appealing to me. I don't know if your circumstance is similar, or if it is a physical limitation. Either way, I've noticed as gamers get older it seems we are less willing to do all the finagling unless it's absolutely required.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,989Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Trionicus
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    As a somewhat "older" gamer I understand your frustration.  So far I'm able to get through most quests, but it can be pretty touch and go sometimes and I certainly fail more often than some of the less "seasoned" gamers.

    As long as the quest isn't vital to the main story line (such as giving you a 1st mount) I don't mind if some quests just can't be completed by me.

    I've learned to live with my limitations which is why you'll rarely see me in a dungeon unless its with like minded guildmates and friends who can be a bit more understanding of my follies (and lack of skill) some time.

     

    I'm at that point now where I'm getting a little bit older and completely willing to sacrifice slightly more difficult quests that I would have completed were I younger and had more energy to waste, say hiding behind a tree while the mob can't hit me type strategy.

    I'm not even willing to attempt it anymore. Even FPS games are significantly less appealing to me. I don't know if your circumstance is similar, or if it is a physical limitation. Either way, I've noticed as gamers get older it seems we are less willing to do all the finagling unless it's absolutely required.

    Yes, I'm definitely in that camp, I prefer things to be fairly up front and direct without a whole lot of moving around. (hence my distaste for more action oriented combat, though TERA's was bearable.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • DaezAsterDaezAster new york, NYPosts: 803Member

    The only reason a game should and does get easier with your fails it that you learn from those failures. I can did a game maybe giving you tips if you keep failing but it shouldnt lower the bar for you.

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