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You think diablo 3 feedback was a "wake up" call of some sort?

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  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,933Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     There were "a lot" of players that felt the same way about Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, Starcraft 2, WoW, and every WoW expansion. They're very vocal about it.  Yet Blizzard continues to set new records with each release. So what is "a lot" anyway? Clearly it has not been the majority or even a significant minority because with each release sales increase sometimes by as much as a factor or two. D3 sold in one week more that D2 sold from it's release until the D3 launch.  Until there is actually a downturn in sales at launch, something Blizzard has never experienced, predictions that it will happen aren't worth the words wasted to make them. MoP may be the first but even then that will have more to do with WoW's decine in  popularity than any supposed failing of Blizzard's as a game producer.

    Yeah, it's complete nonsense for the previous poster to imply "most people" that bought it weren't satisfied.

    If significant numbers of players were being dissatsified in the first 20 hours, I could understand.  But we're talking about a typical $60 non-MMO RPG.  I dunno about everyone else, but non-MMO RPGs last 100-200 hours then I'm done, and D3 lasted  maybe 300 hours for me.  Well worth it.

     WoW....

    300hrs thats like putting in 40hrs a week since release, just like a job. Each to there own I guess. I got about 12hrs out of it before I shelved it, repetative things just dont hold me for long.

    300hrs holy shit

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,132Member Uncommon

    I know a few people who will never buy a Blizzard game again, but I'm sure it's not going to affect them in the slightest way.  Even if every person I knew decided that they would never buy Blizzard products, I'm sure the company wouldn't care. I don't care about them, and they don't care about me.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • jeremyjodesjeremyjodes antioch, ORPosts: 679Member

    They made their cash. padded the Wow sub numbers for the next big call, and plainly told you to your faces you got ripped. pretty sad it took 11 years just to get punkd by blizzard.

    Now with all the cash you guys gave them expect more craptastic games from them maybe even warcraft 4 with a cash shop and RMAH.

    Better enjoy the pandas...it might be the only good thing they make until 3 years you get another expansion or Titan.

    image

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,933Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     There were "a lot" of players that felt the same way about Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, Starcraft 2, WoW, and every WoW expansion. They're very vocal about it.  Yet Blizzard continues to set new records with each release. So what is "a lot" anyway? Clearly it has not been the majority or even a significant minority because with each release sales increase sometimes by as much as a factor or two. D3 sold in one week more that D2 sold from it's release until the D3 launch.  Until there is actually a downturn in sales at launch, something Blizzard has never experienced, predictions that it will happen aren't worth the words wasted to make them. MoP may be the first but even then that will have more to do with WoW's decine in  popularity than any supposed failing of Blizzard's as a game producer.

    Yeah, it's complete nonsense for the previous poster to imply "most people" that bought it weren't satisfied.

    If significant numbers of players were being dissatsified in the first 20 hours, I could understand.  But we're talking about a typical $60 non-MMO RPG.  I dunno about everyone else, but non-MMO RPGs last 100-200 hours then I'm done, and D3 lasted  maybe 300 hours for me.  Well worth it.

     WoW....

    300hrs thats like putting in 40hrs a week since release, just like a job. Each to there own I guess. I got about 12hrs out of it before I shelved it, repetative things just dont hold me for long.

    300hrs holy shit

     

    I'm surprised you play video games at all!!

     Moderation is the key, my friend.

    There is a hell of a lot of things I like in life along with video games. Been playing them since the very beginning. The vast majority of them these days have that been there done that feel.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • xdemonhunterxdemonhunter You dont need to knowPosts: 31Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by xdemonhunter
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     You're going to see not one but two expansions to Diablo 3. The first expansion is well into production. Diablo 4 is a few years off. Diablo 3 was successful far beyond their expectations. After the huge volume of pre-orders they rushed extra boxes into production and still faced shortages. People complaining on forums can't tarnish a level of success most gaming companies only dream about. The only real question now is how well will Heart of the Swarm fare?

    It's going to be a lot longer than "a few years" between D3 and D4, if it comes at all.

    It was more than 10 years between D2 and D3...

    Heart of the Swarm should be immune to Diablo's performance, as they're two separate teams and SC2 pretty much met or exceeded expectations (although personally I would've liked for it to be a new multiplayer game, since I spent years mastering SC1 and actually wasn't looking for nearly the exact same game with SC2.)  

    I was speaking more to the issue of people claiming Blizzard has lost it's golden touch and thinking that it matters if they personally ever buy another Blizzard game. Blizzard does need to tread some new ground and create some new franchises for the long term.

    I dont fully agree with u on this one. Diablo 3 was this huge sucess despite most people that bought it disliking the game and all the negative feedback due to 2 major things:

    1-Blizzard has built alot of credibility in terms of release quality games, regardless what anyone personally think about the company u cant deny that the general gamer population see blizzard as an example of great games

    2-Combination of alot of marking plus the huge fanbase of the diablo 1 and 2 that were eager to buy the new game, highest pre-order sale anyone? Even if the game was bad this was a decisive factor for it to sell so well. Alot of people bought the game without checking reviews or trying a beta first.

    Now u dont have to be a genius to see alot of those players are very unhappy with the game they got, and those same players might be inclined not to just buy anything blizzard releases without at least researching it first a bit. One bad game aint enought to bring down a company as big and sucessfull as blizzard but it can affect there profits and future releases, what remains to be seen is if they gonna keep with this model and if it gonna blow up on their faces (1 game might not take down a companys credibility but a series of bad games will) or if they gonna take the feedback and make a better game that would mean better reviews and possibily bigger profits.

     There were "a lot" of players that felt the same way about Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, Starcraft 2, WoW, and every WoW expansion. They're very vocal about it.  Yet Blizzard continues to set new records with each release. So what is "a lot" anyway? Clearly it has not been the majority or even a significant minority because with each release sales increase sometimes by as much as a factor or two. D3 sold in one week more that D2 sold from it's release until the D3 launch.  Until there is actually a downturn in sales at launch, something Blizzard has never experienced, predictions that it will happen aren't worth the words wasted to make them. MoP may be the first but even then that will have more to do with WoW's decine in  popularity than any supposed failing of Blizzard's as a game producer.

    Yeah i agree unless we get actual numbers concerning diablo 3 it is pretty hard to predict whats gonna happen. All im saying is so far we only have the numbers of its first day/week sales and i explained why those numbers were as high as they were.To be able to give an accurace prediction on whats gonna happen we would need stuff like total amount of players on first couple months and now (to see if there was a big drop pointing out it negative feedback and bad game pushed people off) and sales on the first couple months and the months that followed (it would be expected for the number of sales to decrease after release but a huge  decline would mean that all the voicing had an effect on the sales). For better or for worse we dont have those things for now  but i still see the negative feedback affecting the company as a posibility unlike u that seems to completely rule it out.Of course anyone can have whatever opnion they want just saying u should be at least open to the possiblity even if it is pretty unlikely.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xdemonhunter
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by xdemonhunter
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     You're going to see not one but two expansions to Diablo 3. The first expansion is well into production. Diablo 4 is a few years off. Diablo 3 was successful far beyond their expectations. After the huge volume of pre-orders they rushed extra boxes into production and still faced shortages. People complaining on forums can't tarnish a level of success most gaming companies only dream about. The only real question now is how well will Heart of the Swarm fare?

    It's going to be a lot longer than "a few years" between D3 and D4, if it comes at all.

    It was more than 10 years between D2 and D3...

    Heart of the Swarm should be immune to Diablo's performance, as they're two separate teams and SC2 pretty much met or exceeded expectations (although personally I would've liked for it to be a new multiplayer game, since I spent years mastering SC1 and actually wasn't looking for nearly the exact same game with SC2.)  

    I was speaking more to the issue of people claiming Blizzard has lost it's golden touch and thinking that it matters if they personally ever buy another Blizzard game. Blizzard does need to tread some new ground and create some new franchises for the long term.

    I dont fully agree with u on this one. Diablo 3 was this huge sucess despite most people that bought it disliking the game and all the negative feedback due to 2 major things:

    1-Blizzard has built alot of credibility in terms of release quality games, regardless what anyone personally think about the company u cant deny that the general gamer population see blizzard as an example of great games

    2-Combination of alot of marking plus the huge fanbase of the diablo 1 and 2 that were eager to buy the new game, highest pre-order sale anyone? Even if the game was bad this was a decisive factor for it to sell so well. Alot of people bought the game without checking reviews or trying a beta first.

    Now u dont have to be a genius to see alot of those players are very unhappy with the game they got, and those same players might be inclined not to just buy anything blizzard releases without at least researching it first a bit. One bad game aint enought to bring down a company as big and sucessfull as blizzard but it can affect there profits and future releases, what remains to be seen is if they gonna keep with this model and if it gonna blow up on their faces (1 game might not take down a companys credibility but a series of bad games will) or if they gonna take the feedback and make a better game that would mean better reviews and possibily bigger profits.

     There were "a lot" of players that felt the same way about Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, Starcraft 2, WoW, and every WoW expansion. They're very vocal about it.  Yet Blizzard continues to set new records with each release. So what is "a lot" anyway? Clearly it has not been the majority or even a significant minority because with each release sales increase sometimes by as much as a factor or two. D3 sold in one week more that D2 sold from it's release until the D3 launch.  Until there is actually a downturn in sales at launch, something Blizzard has never experienced, predictions that it will happen aren't worth the words wasted to make them. MoP may be the first but even then that will have more to do with WoW's decine in  popularity than any supposed failing of Blizzard's as a game producer.

    Yeah i agree unless we get actual numbers concerning diablo 3 it is pretty hard to predict whats gonna happen. All im saying is so far we only have the numbers of its first day/week sales and i explained why those numbers were as high as they were.To be able to give an accurace prediction on whats gonna happen we would need stuff like total amount of players on first couple months and now (to see if there was a big drop pointing out it negative feedback and bad game pushed people off) and sales on the first couple months and the months that followed (it would be expected for the number of sales to decrease after release but a huge  decline would mean that all the voicing had an effect on the sales). For better or for worse we dont have those things for now  but i still see the negative feedback affecting the company as a posibility unlike u that seems to completely rule it out.Of course anyone can have whatever opnion they want just saying u should be at least open to the possiblity even if it is pretty unlikely.

     No it's pretty much the first month sales that count for single player games. After that it's off to the bargain bin. Tiger Direct is already selling discount copies on fleabay. Continued sales aren't really a factor.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,682Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laserit

     WoW....

    300hrs thats like putting in 40hrs a week since release, just like a job. Each to there own I guess. I got about 12hrs out of it before I shelved it, repetative things just dont hold me for long.

    300hrs holy shit

    You must have a pretty fun job.

    I make games for a living, and even my job isn't as fun as D3 was.

    I'm pretty sure I didn't spend 40hrs a week since release so maybe my numbers are off, but I know my main had like 100-120 hours, and I also had two other 60s and a mid-50 character.  

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by TGSOL

    D3 is literally the only video game I've ever bought that I actually feel ashamed about purchasing. Like, it's actually a little embaressing to admit that I paid real money to line Blizzard's pocket for what I should've known was little more than a steaming pile.

     

    I just keep telling myself "maybe in a year they'll get their ... together and this will actually be a worthwhile game that I can feel good about owning," but...

    I didn't actually buy d3 but subbed to wow for a year. WHAT WAS I THINKING!!!!??!?!?!?! lol.

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    • Enrage Timers: Invalid and has nothing to do with a Dungeon Crawl, and everything to do with the game having to make you understand you're undergeared at some point.  The only reason for these to possibly be removed would be to encourage players to tackle harder challenges more often.  But you can't really just let heal- or defense-intense builds be too good at farming vastly higher-tier mobs, or the game would be encouraging you to always have very very slow tedious fights.
    • Power relationship:  (Invalid) Um, is this just the poster wishing Inferno was super easy?  Because that's what it sounds like.  I want some hard shit to tackle when I get to endgame.  Hell, I want hard shit to tackle at beginninggame! (Which, again, should increase my rate of rewards (gear/xp))

    This is the whole discussion in a nutshell, you simply cannot fathom something different from the controlled raid or small scale, me (and friends) vs 3 elites, combat.

    Just like the devs.

    We DO NOT need to have tough elites, we DO NOT need to have tough bosses, they just need to be epic, we DO NOT need gear checks, gear just has to be attractive, we DO NOT need extensive survivability checks, we just need basic rules not a petri-dish environment where everything out of the right pattern is vanquished, we DO NOT need to have a long tough forced progression trough the game to make a rpg fun and a lasting experience.

    Flame on!

    :)

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member

    All i know is i'll never buy another blizzard product again.

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,933Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by laserit

     WoW....

    300hrs thats like putting in 40hrs a week since release, just like a job. Each to there own I guess. I got about 12hrs out of it before I shelved it, repetative things just dont hold me for long.

    300hrs holy shit

    You must have a pretty fun job.

    I make games for a living, and even my job isn't as fun as D3 was.

    I'm pretty sure I didn't spend 40hrs a week since release so maybe my numbers are off, but I know my main had like 100-120 hours, and I also had two other 60s and a mid-50 character.  

     I design and prototype metal parts and product's for a living. Sometimes my job is a blast and sometimes it's boring as fuck. Depends on the project I'm working on at the time.

    And when I said repetative I'm talking about the content, which really didnt impress me with D3, no biggy, I just cant redo the same content over and over and over and over.... It's bringing in an RMAH that disgust's me, Blizz has 0 ethic's. Guess I'm just old fashioned.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon

    Between Bioware's Tortanic schmorgisborg and Blizzard's ultra fail with D3, i assure you that these companies won't be making any big sales like they did before.

     

    These games were the straw that broke the camels back for many gamers.  Too many of which gave WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY  too much credit to these companies just for being who they are.

    Constant comments like, "its bioware, how bad can it be", and other stupid things like that.  Basically blizzard and bioware have been cashing in on the namesake that was built by the original employees of these companies 10-15 years ago who have all long since left the company or were fired because they weren't interested in taking every opportunity to "monetize the product" and actually cared about making quality games that people would enjoy and not fleecing their customers for every cent they could before the customers realized they were being fleeced.

    I think a lot of people have finally pulled the wool from their eyes.

    I personally only bought D3 because i have an old gaming buddy who due to his personal and professional life has very little gaming time anymore, and he was excited about the game.  So i figured, why not, 60 bucks so i can game with my friend again.  Even though i had made a vow not to give that wretched company any more of my money.  Now of course, he realizes it was a crock of shit, even though i tried to warn him.

    So, from here on out, i assure you blizzard won't receive another penny of my money, and bioware i've had it in for since Mass Effect 2.  Though i wasnt as enamored by ME1 as everyone else seemed to be. (its actually funny, if you get a chance go load up SWTOR and play through the first couple hours, then do the same thing with ME1, you'll have a heart attack from laughing at how ungodly similar the stories and play/areas are).

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,682Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laserit

     I design and prototype metal parts and product's for a living. Sometimes my job is a blast and sometimes it's boring as fuck. Depends on the project I'm working on at the time.

    And when I said repetative I'm talking about the content, which really didnt impress me with D3, no biggy, I just cant redo the same content over and over and over and over.... It's bringing in an RMAH that disgust's me, Blizz has 0 ethic's. Guess I'm just old fashioned.

    I don't really care about things which exert zero influence over how much money and/or fun I get out of a game, and RMAH definitely fell under that category.  If it'd been a PVP game, I would've cared, but it's not (and won't be even after PVP is implemented.)

    The content in D3 was more varied than nearly every MMORPG I've played, up until Act 1 inferno at least.  Varied mobs; varied character capabilities.  There was a lot of variety.  I certainly wish modern MMORPGs would have that kind of gameplay variety.  It'd make them much more enjoyable.  Even TSW, which I'm enjoying, comes nowhere close to the amount of mob variety D3 had, and it's the most mob-varied MMO to come around in years!

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,933Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by laserit

     I design and prototype metal parts and product's for a living. Sometimes my job is a blast and sometimes it's boring as fuck. Depends on the project I'm working on at the time.

    And when I said repetative I'm talking about the content, which really didnt impress me with D3, no biggy, I just cant redo the same content over and over and over and over.... It's bringing in an RMAH that disgust's me, Blizz has 0 ethic's. Guess I'm just old fashioned.

    I don't really care about things which exert zero influence over how much money and/or fun I get out of a game, and RMAH definitely fell under that category.  If it'd been a PVP game, I would've cared, but it's not (and won't be even after PVP is implemented.)

    The content in D3 was more varied than nearly every MMORPG I've played, up until Act 1 inferno at least.  Varied mobs; varied character capabilities.  There was a lot of variety.  I certainly wish modern MMORPGs would have that kind of gameplay variety.  It'd make them much more enjoyable.  Even TSW, which I'm enjoying, comes nowhere close to the amount of mob variety D3 had, and it's the most mob-varied MMO to come around in years!

    Well you must be young and or short sighted to not see the negative precident this sets.  Whether you believe it ornot it does have an influence over the amount of fun you will get out of a game.

    I'd feel very confident saying that if D3 did not have an RMAH, it would have been a much better game.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,682Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laserit

    Well you must be young and or short sighted to not see the negative precident this sets.  Whether you believe it ornot it does have an influence over the amount of fun you will get out of a game.

    I'd feel very confident saying that if D3 did not have an RMAH, it would have been a much better game.

    I'm neither young nor short-sighted, which is why I don't have a knee-jerk reaction to a feature which had a near-zero impact on my gameplay.

    Literally the only impact it had was extremely indirect: dev hours spent on RMAH that would've been spent elsewhere.

    If someone follows the precedent with a similar zero-impact implementation where it's (a) not pay2win PVP, (b) completely optional and (c) I'm not reliant on pay2win PVE groupmates to advance, then that wouldn't influence my decision to play that game in the slightest, because the RMAH wouldn't impact the game in the slightest.

    If someone follows the precendent with a worse implementation which does impact gameplay or isn't completely optional, I simply won't play that game.

    Because I don't have a knee-jerk reaction to a harmless feature, but I do react to developers compromising their gameplay with pay2win elements.  I react to true threats to game integrity, not imagined ones.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,682Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banaghran

    This is the whole discussion in a nutshell, you simply cannot fathom something different from the controlled raid or small scale, me (and friends) vs 3 elites, combat.

    Just like the devs.

    We DO NOT need to have tough elites, we DO NOT need to have tough bosses, they just need to be epic, we DO NOT need gear checks, gear just has to be attractive, we DO NOT need extensive survivability checks, we just need basic rules not a petri-dish environment where everything out of the right pattern is vanquished, we DO NOT need to have a long tough forced progression trough the game to make a rpg fun and a lasting experience.

    Well what I was describing was simply good combat design and really has nothing to do with raiding or small-group content (apart from said content being good combat design in the better MMORPGs.)

    We absolutely DO need to have tough challenges.  No challenge means there's no game!  (But every player should of course have the option of fighting the challenge which is right for them, and be rewarded accordingly.)

    • There's no "epic" without challenge.
    • There's no "epic" without survivability checks.
    • There is "epic" without gear-checks, but we're talking about RPGs.  RPGs have progression, and gear is one of the most easily-understood forms of progression.

    If you want a no-rules, no-challenge, no-RPG entertainment experience, you're going to find it in something like Second Life.  An experience which isn't a game.

    There seems to be a much stronger player interest in games with game patterns to unravel than open sandbox experiences like Second Life.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,933Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by laserit

    Well you must be young and or short sighted to not see the negative precident this sets.  Whether you believe it ornot it does have an influence over the amount of fun you will get out of a game.

    I'd feel very confident saying that if D3 did not have an RMAH, it would have been a much better game.

    I'm neither young nor short-sighted, which is why I don't have a knee-jerk reaction to a feature which had a near-zero impact on my gameplay.

    Literally the only impact it had was extremely indirect: dev hours spent on RMAH that would've been spent elsewhere.

    If someone follows the precedent with a similar zero-impact implementation where it's (a) not pay2win PVP, (b) completely optional and (c) I'm not reliant on pay2win PVE groupmates to advance, then that wouldn't influence my decision to play that game in the slightest, because the RMAH wouldn't impact the game in the slightest.

    If someone follows the precendent with a worse implementation which does impact gameplay or isn't completely optional, I simply won't play that game.

    Because I don't have a knee-jerk reaction to a harmless feature, but I do react to developers compromising their gameplay with pay2win elements.  I react to true threats to game integrity, not imagined ones.

    Well I guess I'm just looking at the bigger picture.

    Here we have the most popular gaming company implementing a P2W RMAH into their RPG. If you are buying gear to complete inferno it is by definition P2W. What happens when the PVP enters the game? how is this not a threat to game integrity?

    Guess I'm just behind the times. Games to me, be it board games, video games, D&D were always about just having fun. It didnt matter how much money you had to blow, We left that for the casino.

    If Blizz consider's it successful, I'd put money on them introducing it into WoW and Titan. Once its accepted by the consumer's the other gaming companies will follow suit.

    Nah I see this type of thing as a threat to the integrity of gaming period, even if it dosnt effect me personally. It's just a downhill slope.

     

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,682Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laserit

    Well I guess I'm just looking at the bigger picture.

    Here we have the most popular gaming company implementing a P2W RMAH into their RPG. If you are buying gear to complete inferno it is by definition P2W. What happens when the PVP enters the game? how is this not a threat to game integrity?

    Guess I'm just behind the times. Games to me, be it board games, video games, D&D were always about just having fun. It didnt matter how much money you had to blow, We left that for the casino.

    If Blizz consider's it successful, I'd put money on them introducing it into WoW and Titan. Once its accepted by the consumer's the other gaming companies will follow suit.

    Nah I see this type of thing as a threat to the integrity of gaming period, even if it dosnt effect me personally. It's just a downhill slope. 

    They've implemented a system I can choose to completely ignore without problems.

    If someone implements a system I can't ignore, I'll avoid that game.

    Games to me have always just been about fun.  That's why I can enjoy D3 (without RMAHing).  [mod edit]

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 San Diego, CAPosts: 275Member
    Originally posted by xenogias

    I expect more of the same from blizzard. Blizzard isnt in the busness of making good games anymore. They are in the busness of making piles of crap and telling thier idiot fanbase that its pure gold. Luckily they are not the only company that makes games. After DIablo 3 has been so successfull I'm interested to see what the next wave of dungeon crawlers bring. I'm not talking about Torchlight2 or PoE. As many copies as D3 sold you know there are going to be 3-5 more comming out in the next couple years trying to capture that success. Sure they could all be clones. I'll just hope one of them is actually good...kinda like Titans quest was.

    Just to inform you, off topic but Grim Dawn is being developed by the makers of Titans Quest.

     

    Its not out yet but it is looking pretty good.  PoE is alright, its very very level/item based game and at the momment could use a big animation overhaul for the game to feel more fluid.

  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 San Diego, CAPosts: 275Member
    Originally posted by sketocafe
    Originally posted by Zook81

    This is the absolute worst game I have ever paid money for, and I am a very forgiving person when it comes to the quality of a game. Even with friends, it is no fun at all. This is coming from someone who loved Diablo and Diablo II.

    I don't think it will be a wake up call for Blizzard, though I am insanely surprised they have came out and said "okay we admit it, the end game isn't sustainable". They love their RMT auction house a lot, and any change they make will ensure that the game will still revolve around it.

    They did admit that, but they got it wrong. They talked about how the 'item hunt' endgame wasn't enough, while skirting the elephant in the room that was the fact that the same kind of endgame was more than enough in diablo 2. That they show no outward indications of asking the hard questions about what went wrong this time (i'd say RMAH and the loot changes made to support it) indicates to me that you are absolutely right and this will not be a wake up call at all. 

    Also they can afford golden buckets for all the bucketloads of money they earned from this game, that's a big part of it too. It's well nigh impossible to suggest you don't follow a successful formula like this if you're a publicly traded company. It's just too bad they bought that financial success using some of their reputation for tightly crafted and extremely replayable games.

    I don't know about you guys but they have multiple law suites in other coutries because of Diablo 3.  I really don't think its making them a profit at the momment.

    I wouldn't be able to find a source but I am pretty sure its also the fastest returned game in history.

  • 7star7star SeoulPosts: 405Member
    Originally posted by xdemonhunter

    ... or blizzard just made their quick buck and will keep using this bussness model?

    This.

     

    They will  just keep trying to tweek it till they find a way to make it work. They got a little too greedy this time. They will tone it down to the point where they see the kinds of revenues  they feel are acceptable via the RMAH. 

     

    We have to see how many people pay for the xpac for D3, as well.

     

    They don't seem to have any creative genius there any more, so it's just going to be about tuning the machine to maximize revenue from whoever their target market is.

     

     

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,933Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by laserit

    Well I guess I'm just looking at the bigger picture.

    Here we have the most popular gaming company implementing a P2W RMAH into their RPG. If you are buying gear to complete inferno it is by definition P2W. What happens when the PVP enters the game? how is this not a threat to game integrity?

    Guess I'm just behind the times. Games to me, be it board games, video games, D&D were always about just having fun. It didnt matter how much money you had to blow, We left that for the casino.

    If Blizz consider's it successful, I'd put money on them introducing it into WoW and Titan. Once its accepted by the consumer's the other gaming companies will follow suit.

    Nah I see this type of thing as a threat to the integrity of gaming period, even if it dosnt effect me personally. It's just a downhill slope. 

    They've implemented a system I can choose to completely ignore without problems.

    If someone implements a system I can't ignore, I'll avoid that game.

    Games to me have always just been about fun.  That's why I can enjoy D3 (without RMAHing). [mod edit]

    Now why did you have to throw that last sentence in there?

    D3 was fun for a short amount of time and why it lost it's sparkle had nothing to do with the RMAH and all to do with a boring game. Different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.

    peace out.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 San Diego, CAPosts: 275Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Banaghran

    This is the whole discussion in a nutshell, you simply cannot fathom something different from the controlled raid or small scale, me (and friends) vs 3 elites, combat.

    Just like the devs.

    We DO NOT need to have tough elites, we DO NOT need to have tough bosses, they just need to be epic, we DO NOT need gear checks, gear just has to be attractive, we DO NOT need extensive survivability checks, we just need basic rules not a petri-dish environment where everything out of the right pattern is vanquished, we DO NOT need to have a long tough forced progression trough the game to make a rpg fun and a lasting experience.

    Well what I was describing was simply good combat design and really has nothing to do with raiding or small-group content (apart from said content being good combat design in the better MMORPGs.)

    We absolutely DO need to have tough challenges.  No challenge means there's no game!  (But every player should of course have the option of fighting the challenge which is right for them, and be rewarded accordingly.)

    • There's no "epic" without challenge.
    • There's no "epic" without survivability checks.
    • There is "epic" without gear-checks, but we're talking about RPGs.  RPGs have progression, and gear is one of the most easily-understood forms of progression.

    If you want a no-rules, no-challenge, no-RPG entertainment experience, you're going to find it in something like Second Life.  An experience which isn't a game.

    There seems to be a much stronger player interest in games with game patterns to unravel than open sandbox experiences like Second Life.

    I don't know what is considered a challenge for you but increased numbers is not a challenge for me.  There is no real challenge in Diablo 3.

    Getting 1 shotted off screen by monsters is not a challenge its dumb.  The game is a 100% gear check and is not what the genre or the series of the game stands for.

    Also to note that there are people now playing the game to find out the statistics of how bad the item roles are in the game.  At current someone bought 3000 ilvl63 items and out of all of them only had 4 or 5 items that were worth much.  More than half were complete crap, stuff like + gold pick up range, lowered level req etc.  

    Some were a step above it but the stats on them were worse than stuff you get in Act 2 normal.  He got a total of maybe 200 items that could be sold on the AH.

    You can keep having fun playing the game fine, but you should know especially from designing games that it is hugely flawed and terribly designed.

    There is no risk vrs reward.  There is no feeling of accomplishment from playing the game, there is nothing to intice people to play the game.  Its actually scary that you as a supposive game programer can't see this, btw what company do you work for because I really don't want to play any game your working on.

  • uohaloranuohaloran ., GAPosts: 811Member

    I'm sure I'm echoing the sentiments of what has already been posted in here, at least I hope I am...

    The game sold tremendously well and Blizzard is surely doing pretty good with their cuts from the RMAH transactions.  Negative feedback doesn't mean shit to them if they're selling 6,300,000 copies in the opening week at ~$60USD per box.

    The dollar bills would be earplugs to any feedback that they'd ever recieve because if you're pulling those kind of figures, it's unlikely you want to hear anything else.

  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 San Diego, CAPosts: 275Member
    Originally posted by uohaloran

    I'm sure I'm echoing the sentiments of what has already been posted in here, at least I hope I am...

    The game sold tremendously well and Blizzard is surely doing pretty good with their cuts from the RMAH transactions.  Negative feedback doesn't mean shit to them if they're selling 6,300,000 copies in the opening week at ~$60USD per box.

    The dollar bills would be earplugs to any feedback that they'd ever recieve because if you're pulling those kind of figures, it's unlikely you want to hear anything else.

    Yet it also is the fastest returned game in history.

    That and there are multiple law suites going on right now in different countries because of Diablo 3 not to mention the 10+ year development cycle.

    Ill tell you right now, they have not broken even at all from Diablo 3.  

    Its not a wake up call persay because of the complaints its a wake up call due to the fact that people are quitting the game left and right.

    Bash admited to only hundreds of thousands of players online at a time, and the fact that a good portion of the people that bought the game retruned it.  Hell half my friends did it.

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