Whats the point of me playing Skyrim as a stealth character trying to go through dungeons without ever being spotted and getting all stealth kills? Doesnt change what loot I get and I can easily get skill ups else where. The point, is its fun. The moment you're doing something for gear but you're not having fun, then honestly you've lost sight on the point of the game.
To any that argue that ANET is breaking the mold for the sake of fun I believe is a straight misfire of the truth. ANET choose micro payments over the gear grind subscription model is all and in the end for this type of game to work as a business it has to generate cash. Unless I am not seeing something it seems the game will still have a type of grind just a horse of a different color.
You definitely aren't seeing something
First off: The game is B2P, so their primary generation of cash is through box sales. This makes microtransactions less of a must as they are in F2P games, but still of secondary importance. Thus the cash shop is filled with nothing but vanity stuff, account services, and some convenience things for ingame that don't influence the game in any large way. What's better, is that a player doesn't ever have to spend a dime on these items, because they will just buy gems with gold off of other players if they want to.
Secondly: The only grinds in this game are optional, and that is what a lot of people are missing. In other games to stay in the loop you have to grind for stats. In this game its purely cosmetic so you don't fall behind, if you want to chase the carrot it is definitely there, but there is no forced carrot chase in this game like in others. That is the major difference, chase the cosmetic gear carrot if you like grinding for hard items, yet if you don't care for grinding then you are at no disadvantage to simply not do it. That is definitely breaking the mold.
it feels as though a lot of people are going to be entering the world of GW2 and playing the game with the wrong mindset This is quite disappointing and I pity those who won't be able to enjoy this game properly with the numerous things it has to offer.
it feels as though a lot of people are going to be entering the world of GW2 and playing the game with the wrong mindset This is quite disappointing and I pity those who won't be able to enjoy this game properly with the numerous things it has to offer.
I second this. Enjoy the game for what it is otherwise find something else. The gear grind in GW2 is optional, its been said a million times already. There is progression, the stats DO matter if you want to optimize your build. Its not only for cosmetics.
What's the point of doing instances at low level and at 80 over and over, if gear doesn't matter?
Honestly, what is the point of doing instances when gear does matter? It is mainly just to look cooler to everyone else, isn't it? Sure, you might do a little more damage/healing/tanking here and there, but honestly, is that really what the driving factor is?
There can still be "risk" and your "reward" is cooler looking stuff. The "reward" is finishing the instances and getting those achievements, and then getting the stuff to show it off. It is still a reward.
If you are grinding an instance to get better gear, when you get that gear, you are at the pinnacle and are "done". You now look like a badass and can show off to everyone. But how does the power increase really help you when you have finished everything? Oh yea, it doesn't.
It is basically the same thing, but it is skill focused. You have to know your class, your skills and of course get the top level gear. But it will be obtainable by everyone (power wise). Then it will be 100% skill based. You can flaunt your achievements with your gear that you got from completing instances/whatever, and it will still be just as much of a challenge as it was when you started (possibly).
I don't really see the issue, especially when you break it down and really look at what "gear treadmill" games offer as far as rewards. People are just looking at it all wrong, and are obviously blinded and brainwashed by the current gear treadmills other games offer.
The game is more focused on fun, and playing with friends, than gear, gear, gear. There is definite vertical progression, it just doesn't go as far as many other games do.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you still need better gear to fight PvE.
Gear just doesn't matter in PvP.
the point is that once you are lvl 80 get the BEST stats should not be hard and from there all the rewards are cosmetics, is not like other MMOs where once you are top lvl the hunt of tiers start once you and the next always have better stats
Correct me if I am wrong, but you still need better gear to fight PvE.
Gear just doesn't matter in PvP.
Yea. I know from crafting in the BWE's and slotting my gear with enhancements made me considerably more powerful than my friends that didn't craft or gather. I was easily 10-20% more powerful across the board, if not more so.
Many of my friend's had a few pieces of level appropriate gear, but some even were wearing whites. Crafting allowed me to basically fully upgrade everything every 5 levels, which kept me much ahead of them as far as power.
Gear only matters in WvWvW PvP (it uses your character's current gear from PvE), not Structured PvP (as you have access to all the gear from vendors at level 1). So basically, PvE and WvW is one set of gear, and SPvP is another.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you still need better gear to fight PvE.
Gear just doesn't matter in PvP.
Yea. I know from crafting in the BWE's and slotting my gear with enhancements made me considerably more powerful than my friends that didn't craft or gather. I was easily 10-20% more powerful across the board, if not more so.
Gear only matters in WvWvW PvP (it uses your character's current gear from PvE), not Structured PvP (as you have access to all the gear from vendors at level 1). So basically, PvE and WvW is one set of gear, and SPvP is another.
That answers everyones question then. It's the best of both worlds. You can still grind for better gear and spank someone in WvWvW that has weaker gear than you.
In reply to the comment, "You definitely aren't seeing something"...
My first reply is that yes there are many areas about GW2 that I have yet to learn about but from what I have read and what experience I have gained from playing the game I do believe there are plans in place for the game to have grinds per say.
I believe the findings do and will suggest that ANET's primary means of cash not be box sales long term. Given this what systems are in place to cause the players to move to use the in game shop? I believe plenty and not many are driven because of "fun."
That answers everyones question then. It's the best of both worlds. You can still grind for better gear and spank someone in WvWvW that has weaker gear than you.
Also, I don't know how hard some gear will be to get. For example, in the beta, there was "unique" (gold) gear that you got from running the level 30 dungeon. You then have to run the "explorable" mode at 35+ to get items to trade for the other set pieces.
There is still a difference in power between white, blue, green and gold, so I am sure there will be some gear treadmilling and work to be done to get to that point. I doubt it will be "you hit 80 and automatically get all the best stuff". I am sure some instance running and what not will be required. But it won't be to the point that other games "require" it.
Gear grind games really made us forgot why we are playing a game... Hope people will come to their senses with GW2.
In GW1 even though the focus was the pvp, dungeons were fun to play and there were some challanging one, also with awesome loots (and rare), In gw2 there will be legedary treasures which are obtained from the end game content and is obtained in multiple challenging steps, i am so excited about it even though i am a pvp player. GW2 really lured me into pve as well.
Also after being 80, you do not stop leveling up, you gain a skill point each tme you level up. YOu can then swap those extra points for gear from the mystic forge.
it feels as though a lot of people are going to be entering the world of GW2 and playing the game with the wrong mindset This is quite disappointing and I pity those who won't be able to enjoy this game properly with the numerous things it has to offer.
I second this. Enjoy the game for what it is otherwise find something else. The gear grind in GW2 is optional, its been said a million times already. There is progression, the stats DO matter if you want to optimize your build. Its not only for cosmetics.
Is anyone else blown away by the number of people who do not do any research on GW2, but jump in and immediately either pre-purchase it or start making demands?
For example during the Twitch.tv interview today I saw a TON of that. People who obviously knew absolutely nothing about the game. I see it on the forums a lot as well. For example there is a poster going around saying everyone is going to be as disappointed by the game as he was, but admitted he hadn't actually done any research on the game prior to purchasing it!
(only slightly related but funny: I remember them talking about completely old news during the interview, stuff we had experiened in the BWEs as fact, and several people in the chat went, "That's BS, I've heard this a hundred times from MMO devs before, show us some gameplay videos or stop lying". /facepalm)
it feels as though a lot of people are going to be entering the world of GW2 and playing the game with the wrong mindset This is quite disappointing and I pity those who won't be able to enjoy this game properly with the numerous things it has to offer.
I second this. Enjoy the game for what it is otherwise find something else. The gear grind in GW2 is optional, its been said a million times already. There is progression, the stats DO matter if you want to optimize your build. Its not only for cosmetics.
Is anyone else blown away by the number of people who do not do any research on GW2, but jump in and immediately either pre-purchase it or start making demands?
For example during the Twitch.tv interview today I saw a TON of that. People who obviously knew absolutely nothing about the game. I see it on the forums a lot as well. For example there is a poster going around saying everyone is going to be as disappointed by the game as he was, but admitted he hadn't actually done any research on the game prior to purchasing it!
(only slightly related but funny: I remember them talking about completely old news during the interview, stuff we had experiened in the BWEs as fact, and several people in the chat went, "That's BS, I've heard this a hundred times from MMO devs before, show us some gameplay videos or stop lying". /facepalm)
Since you quoted me.. I'm curious. Are you referring to me?
In reply to the comment, "You definitely aren't seeing something"...
My first reply is that yes there are many areas about GW2 that I have yet to learn about but from what I have read and what experience I have gained from playing the game I do believe there are plans in place for the game to have grinds per say.
I believe the findings do and will suggest that ANET's primary means of cash not be box sales long term. Given this what systems are in place to cause the players to move to use the in game shop? I believe plenty and not many are driven because of "fun."
No offense but just because X (relying on MTs as the primary source of income) is shown in some studies to be possibly more profitable doesn't mean that a company intends to pursue it. If the existence of such a study ensured that companies would follow its premise, WoW would have no box price, no sub fee, and would rely on MTs exclusively right ?
For that matter, under such an assumption, GW2 would have a box price and sub fee, or be purely FtP, because those models have been proven profitable for an MMO whereas B2P has not. Since GW2, unless things change over the next month and a half, is going to be BtP, we have evidence that ANet is NOT following industry proven patterns.
To clarify, I am not suggesting that you are wrong, merely that your assumption does not inherently follow the data you reference.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
it feels as though a lot of people are going to be entering the world of GW2 and playing the game with the wrong mindset This is quite disappointing and I pity those who won't be able to enjoy this game properly with the numerous things it has to offer.
I second this. Enjoy the game for what it is otherwise find something else. The gear grind in GW2 is optional, its been said a million times already. There is progression, the stats DO matter if you want to optimize your build. Its not only for cosmetics.
Is anyone else blown away by the number of people who do not do any research on GW2, but jump in and immediately either pre-purchase it or start making demands?
For example during the Twitch.tv interview today I saw a TON of that. People who obviously knew absolutely nothing about the game. I see it on the forums a lot as well. For example there is a poster going around saying everyone is going to be as disappointed by the game as he was, but admitted he hadn't actually done any research on the game prior to purchasing it!
(only slightly related but funny: I remember them talking about completely old news during the interview, stuff we had experiened in the BWEs as fact, and several people in the chat went, "That's BS, I've heard this a hundred times from MMO devs before, show us some gameplay videos or stop lying". /facepalm)
Since you quoted me.. I'm curious. Are you referring to me?
Not at all--the post you were seconding, where they expressed concern over people not knowing anything about the game. Sorry for the misunderstanding
In reply to the comment, "You definitely aren't seeing something"...
My first reply is that yes there are many areas about GW2 that I have yet to learn about but from what I have read and what experience I have gained from playing the game I do believe there are plans in place for the game to have grinds per say.
I believe the findings do and will suggest that ANET's primary means of cash not be box sales long term. Given this what systems are in place to cause the players to move to use the in game shop? I believe plenty and not many are driven because of "fun."
No offense but just because X (relying on MTs as the primary source of income) is shown in some studies to be possibly more profitable doesn't mean that a company intends to pursue it. If the existence of such a study ensured that companies would follow its premise, WoW would have no box price, no sub fee, and would rely on MTs exclusively right ?
For that matter, under such an assumption, GW2 would have a box price and sub fee, or be purely FtP, because those models have been proven profitable for an MMO whereas B2P has not. Since GW2, unless things change over the next month and a half, is going to be BtP, we have evidence that ANet is NOT following industry proven patterns.
To clarify, I am not suggesting that you are wrong, merely that your assumption does not inherently follow the data you reference.
Minor correction, B2P *has* been proven to be profitable for an MMO, just look at Guild Wars 1.
Sure, they turned to the cash shop eventually, but it's run longer than most subscription MMORPGs.
Any incentive for doing should be mindful of the law of diminishing returns. Some of us are sick of gear treadmills being the incentive. At least GW2 will have some stuff like omgwtf legendary weapons. Hope the unicorn rainbow bow makes farting sounds as the arrow flies.
1 more prove only Trollable topics are truly alive here ))
If some 1 trying to discuss real question about game 2 pages max he can get
but if " GW2 sucks i want my +10000 Spell damage ____" boom in several hours 10+ pages hehe
I think part of the problem may come from the site not having "off time" moderators. I'm not even sure they have European times moderators - and that's often when the suspicious topics are posted and grow.
But this is off topic
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Comments
as the saying goes " if it aint fun don't do it"
One might argue real life accomplishments don't mean anything either.
You definitely aren't seeing something
First off: The game is B2P, so their primary generation of cash is through box sales. This makes microtransactions less of a must as they are in F2P games, but still of secondary importance. Thus the cash shop is filled with nothing but vanity stuff, account services, and some convenience things for ingame that don't influence the game in any large way. What's better, is that a player doesn't ever have to spend a dime on these items, because they will just buy gems with gold off of other players if they want to.
Secondly: The only grinds in this game are optional, and that is what a lot of people are missing. In other games to stay in the loop you have to grind for stats. In this game its purely cosmetic so you don't fall behind, if you want to chase the carrot it is definitely there, but there is no forced carrot chase in this game like in others. That is the major difference, chase the cosmetic gear carrot if you like grinding for hard items, yet if you don't care for grinding then you are at no disadvantage to simply not do it. That is definitely breaking the mold.
it feels as though a lot of people are going to be entering the world of GW2 and playing the game with the wrong mindset
This is quite disappointing and I pity those who won't be able to enjoy this game properly with the numerous things it has to offer.
I second this. Enjoy the game for what it is otherwise find something else. The gear grind in GW2 is optional, its been said a million times already. There is progression, the stats DO matter if you want to optimize your build. Its not only for cosmetics.
Honestly, what is the point of doing instances when gear does matter? It is mainly just to look cooler to everyone else, isn't it? Sure, you might do a little more damage/healing/tanking here and there, but honestly, is that really what the driving factor is?
There can still be "risk" and your "reward" is cooler looking stuff. The "reward" is finishing the instances and getting those achievements, and then getting the stuff to show it off. It is still a reward.
If you are grinding an instance to get better gear, when you get that gear, you are at the pinnacle and are "done". You now look like a badass and can show off to everyone. But how does the power increase really help you when you have finished everything? Oh yea, it doesn't.
It is basically the same thing, but it is skill focused. You have to know your class, your skills and of course get the top level gear. But it will be obtainable by everyone (power wise). Then it will be 100% skill based. You can flaunt your achievements with your gear that you got from completing instances/whatever, and it will still be just as much of a challenge as it was when you started (possibly).
I don't really see the issue, especially when you break it down and really look at what "gear treadmill" games offer as far as rewards. People are just looking at it all wrong, and are obviously blinded and brainwashed by the current gear treadmills other games offer.
The game is more focused on fun, and playing with friends, than gear, gear, gear. There is definite vertical progression, it just doesn't go as far as many other games do.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you still need better gear to fight PvE.
Gear just doesn't matter in PvP.
the point is that once you are lvl 80 get the BEST stats should not be hard and from there all the rewards are cosmetics, is not like other MMOs where once you are top lvl the hunt of tiers start once you and the next always have better stats
Yea. I know from crafting in the BWE's and slotting my gear with enhancements made me considerably more powerful than my friends that didn't craft or gather. I was easily 10-20% more powerful across the board, if not more so.
Many of my friend's had a few pieces of level appropriate gear, but some even were wearing whites. Crafting allowed me to basically fully upgrade everything every 5 levels, which kept me much ahead of them as far as power.
Gear only matters in WvWvW PvP (it uses your character's current gear from PvE), not Structured PvP (as you have access to all the gear from vendors at level 1). So basically, PvE and WvW is one set of gear, and SPvP is another.
That answers everyones question then. It's the best of both worlds. You can still grind for better gear and spank someone in WvWvW that has weaker gear than you.
In reply to the comment, "You definitely aren't seeing something"...
My first reply is that yes there are many areas about GW2 that I have yet to learn about but from what I have read and what experience I have gained from playing the game I do believe there are plans in place for the game to have grinds per say.
One front of contention is that box sales are the primary means of cash for ANET. Several recent studies are having findings that suggest that micro payments far outstrip box sales (i.e., http://www.digitaltrends.com/features/how-the-freemium-app-model-will-pave-the-way-to-profits/)
I believe the findings do and will suggest that ANET's primary means of cash not be box sales long term. Given this what systems are in place to cause the players to move to use the in game shop? I believe plenty and not many are driven because of "fun."
Also, I don't know how hard some gear will be to get. For example, in the beta, there was "unique" (gold) gear that you got from running the level 30 dungeon. You then have to run the "explorable" mode at 35+ to get items to trade for the other set pieces.
There is still a difference in power between white, blue, green and gold, so I am sure there will be some gear treadmilling and work to be done to get to that point. I doubt it will be "you hit 80 and automatically get all the best stuff". I am sure some instance running and what not will be required. But it won't be to the point that other games "require" it.
Gear grind games really made us forgot why we are playing a game... Hope people will come to their senses with GW2.
In GW1 even though the focus was the pvp, dungeons were fun to play and there were some challanging one, also with awesome loots (and rare), In gw2 there will be legedary treasures which are obtained from the end game content and is obtained in multiple challenging steps, i am so excited about it even though i am a pvp player. GW2 really lured me into pve as well.
Also after being 80, you do not stop leveling up, you gain a skill point each tme you level up. YOu can then swap those extra points for gear from the mystic forge.
Is anyone else blown away by the number of people who do not do any research on GW2, but jump in and immediately either pre-purchase it or start making demands?
For example during the Twitch.tv interview today I saw a TON of that. People who obviously knew absolutely nothing about the game. I see it on the forums a lot as well. For example there is a poster going around saying everyone is going to be as disappointed by the game as he was, but admitted he hadn't actually done any research on the game prior to purchasing it!
(only slightly related but funny: I remember them talking about completely old news during the interview, stuff we had experiened in the BWEs as fact, and several people in the chat went, "That's BS, I've heard this a hundred times from MMO devs before, show us some gameplay videos or stop lying". /facepalm)
Since you quoted me.. I'm curious. Are you referring to me?
No offense but just because X (relying on MTs as the primary source of income) is shown in some studies to be possibly more profitable doesn't mean that a company intends to pursue it. If the existence of such a study ensured that companies would follow its premise, WoW would have no box price, no sub fee, and would rely on MTs exclusively right ?
For that matter, under such an assumption, GW2 would have a box price and sub fee, or be purely FtP, because those models have been proven profitable for an MMO whereas B2P has not. Since GW2, unless things change over the next month and a half, is going to be BtP, we have evidence that ANet is NOT following industry proven patterns.
To clarify, I am not suggesting that you are wrong, merely that your assumption does not inherently follow the data you reference.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
You won the thread:D
Not at all--the post you were seconding, where they expressed concern over people not knowing anything about the game. Sorry for the misunderstanding
1 more prove only Trollable topics are truly alive here
))
If some 1 trying to discuss real question about game 2 pages max he can get
but if " GW2 sucks i want my +10000 Spell damage ____" boom in several hours 10+ pages hehe
Minor correction, B2P *has* been proven to be profitable for an MMO, just look at Guild Wars 1.
Sure, they turned to the cash shop eventually, but it's run longer than most subscription MMORPGs.
Any incentive for doing should be mindful of the law of diminishing returns.
Some of us are sick of gear treadmills being the incentive.
At least GW2 will have some stuff like omgwtf legendary weapons. Hope the unicorn rainbow bow makes farting sounds as the arrow flies.
at least do some research before post.
you still can get gear from dungeons, great looking gear, not the incredible OP gear stats like other MMORPG
Just stumbled upon this, and thought it's kind of relevant to this topic:
http://www.darklegacycomics.com/346.html
I think part of the problem may come from the site not having "off time" moderators. I'm not even sure they have European times moderators - and that's often when the suspicious topics are posted and grow.
But this is off topic
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Does anybody play video games to have fun? For example, i play FPS'ers because i like the fast paced adrenaline pumping action. Maybe that's just me.