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Blizzard to sell gold on the RMAH... the end is nigh!

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Comments

  • KroxMalonKroxMalon swindonPosts: 409Member

    Why are you all so shocked and mortified? is it because blizzard are doing it?

    CCP has been doing htis for years, but instead it has a middle ground called a PLEX. By the PLEX from website, get it in game and sell it for ingame currency, pretty much the same darn thing.

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,938Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     Except Blizzard doesn't get 15%. Paypal gets most of it as part of their agreement not to hold Blizzard liable for chargebacks and customer fraud on game items. Since so many people do not try to cash out but just use their  profits to buy game items on the auction house they never pay the 15% anyway. It's not a moneymaker for Blizzard.

    Link or proof?  From other transactions paypal only charges 2-3% but we have no idea how much blizzard gets, why are you claiming that you know?  Seriously stop being a tool bro, blizzard is in it to make money and if they are not making money from RMAH then they will change it so that they are.

    They didn't make their money by just selling games, they made it with subs and other services.   They are looking for a revenue stream and RMAH is that source.  How else are they going to pay for the constant patches and balance tweaks?

     Hilarious isnt it.

    15% is highway robbery. Credit card companies charge businesses about 2% on transactions and I'm sure they have to deal with as much chargebacks, fraud and a miriad of other problems. In the end they still make money hand over fist.

     When you add in merchant fees, swipe fees, fraud, and other costs it can run as much as 150% to as low as 5% depending on the transaction size. The markup in stores is 35% on average to over 300% depending on the item. So how is 15%, most of which paypal gets, highway robbery?  You're "sure" they make money hand over fist but it's peanuts compared to what they make from game sales. So what business are you in because I'm in retail. I deal with this every day.

     I'm a partner in a manufacturing and fabricating business, I pay freelance salesmen 8% commission and they take care of their own expenses and they do very well for themselves.

    We also sell certain widgets to the public and take credit and debit cards, the credit card companies take 2.25% of the sale as their transaction fee. I'd like to see them try and take 15% as I could guess as to what business's would tell them they could do with their card's.

    Your right about retail markup's, retail can be a tough business. Some merchant's have to sell things at 300% to be able to make a profit, You wouldnt believe the rent that some of them have to pay $50-$60 a square foot is not uncommon and depending on location it could be a lot more then that.

    To put it bluntly 15% is highway robbery, it's a leagal racket, Just like charging young dumbass's over 50% interest on a payday loan.

     

     

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     Except Blizzard doesn't get 15%. Paypal gets most of it as part of their agreement not to hold Blizzard liable for chargebacks and customer fraud on game items. Since so many people do not try to cash out but just use their  profits to buy game items on the auction house they never pay the 15% anyway. It's not a moneymaker for Blizzard.

    Link or proof?  From other transactions paypal only charges 2-3% but we have no idea how much blizzard gets, why are you claiming that you know?  Seriously stop being a tool bro, blizzard is in it to make money and if they are not making money from RMAH then they will change it so that they are.

    They didn't make their money by just selling games, they made it with subs and other services.   They are looking for a revenue stream and RMAH is that source.  How else are they going to pay for the constant patches and balance tweaks?

     Hilarious isnt it.

    15% is highway robbery. Credit card companies charge businesses about 2% on transactions and I'm sure they have to deal with as much chargebacks, fraud and a miriad of other problems. In the end they still make money hand over fist.

     When you add in merchant fees, swipe fees, fraud, and other costs it can run as much as 150% to as low as 5% depending on the transaction size. The markup in stores is 35% on average to over 300% depending on the item. So how is 15%, most of which paypal gets, highway robbery?  You're "sure" they make money hand over fist but it's peanuts compared to what they make from game sales. So what business are you in because I'm in retail. I deal with this every day.

    So when i put up something on the ah, i will get gold/money regardless of it selling? I wont. That is not a retailer. They are providing a service, like banks or brokers. A <10% fee would be much more appropriate. They already have the money people have on the battle.net balance, it would not be off topic to ask for people with a certain amount of cash there to pay no fees at all, you know, like a real bank, comes with the territory...

    And it is not peanuts either, every time someone buys or sells a item on the rmah, someone had to give blizz the money first.

    Flame on!

    :)

     

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     Except Blizzard doesn't get 15%. Paypal gets most of it as part of their agreement not to hold Blizzard liable for chargebacks and customer fraud on game items. Since so many people do not try to cash out but just use their  profits to buy game items on the auction house they never pay the 15% anyway. It's not a moneymaker for Blizzard.

    Link or proof?  From other transactions paypal only charges 2-3% but we have no idea how much blizzard gets, why are you claiming that you know?  Seriously stop being a tool bro, blizzard is in it to make money and if they are not making money from RMAH then they will change it so that they are.

    They didn't make their money by just selling games, they made it with subs and other services.   They are looking for a revenue stream and RMAH is that source.  How else are they going to pay for the constant patches and balance tweaks?

     Hilarious isnt it.

    15% is highway robbery. Credit card companies charge businesses about 2% on transactions and I'm sure they have to deal with as much chargebacks, fraud and a miriad of other problems. In the end they still make money hand over fist.

     When you add in merchant fees, swipe fees, fraud, and other costs it can run as much as 150% to as low as 5% depending on the transaction size. The markup in stores is 35% on average to over 300% depending on the item. So how is 15%, most of which paypal gets, highway robbery?  You're "sure" they make money hand over fist but it's peanuts compared to what they make from game sales. So what business are you in because I'm in retail. I deal with this every day.

    So when i put up something on the ah, i will get gold/money regardless of it selling? I wont. That is not a retailer. They are providing a service, like banks or brokers. A <10% fee would be much more appropriate. They already have the money people have on the battle.net balance, it would not be off topic to ask for people with a certain amount of cash there to pay no fees at all, you know, like a real bank, comes with the territory...

    And it is not peanuts either, every time someone buys or sells a item on the rmah, someone had to give blizz the money first.

    Flame on!

    :)

     

     Blizzard isn't a bank. They don't lend out depositor money or invest it to make a profit. How much of a fee is appropriate depends on overhead. Doing a lot of small transactions carries a high overhead. The money goes in the money goes out. The volume, size, and percentages of these transactions are peanuts.  

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by zymurgeist  

      How much of a fee is appropriate depends on overhead. Doing a lot of small transactions carries a high overhead. The money goes in the money goes out. The volume, size, and percentages of these transactions are peanuts.  

    So not only do you know how much the paypal and blizzard split is, you also know how much their overhead is?  Dude you don't know how much they spend or make.  WHAT MONEY IS GOING OUT!?  They only thing they are spending money on is a team that works on the patches.   Small transactions does not effect them because it's taking place on their network, the customer cashes out to paypal and the customer pays those fees.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    hmm .. guys .. read their FAQ.

    Blizz is not geting 15% on teh RMAH. It is getting $1 per transaction. It is 1% for a $100 item, and 10% for a $10 one.

    15% only applies to commodity in the RMAH.

     

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member
    Originally posted by 7star
    Originally posted by Souldrainer
    Originally posted by Berikai

    Imo it's looking more and more like Blizz is just using D3 as an experiment to see how real money auctions would go over when they release Titan.Set the groundwork and see how people accept it,then take it further in the next mmo.

    It's the future unfortunately imo,but I guess greed has no bound's.

     

    In my assessment, you are on the right track, but the situation is more grim than you think. In part, the game is a litmus test, but it's mostly a boiling frog experiment to indoctrinate the masses to new marketing schemes without them noticing. They are trying to kill off the buy-and-play model of payment, in favor of an always-on pyramid marketing scam that makes money 24/7. Instead of handing out these glowing 9/10 and 10/10 reviews, the gaming media should be up in arms over this. Instead, they are showering the game with praise. It's as if Lex Luthor started calling himself Superman, and nobody in power cares.

    And what's interesting for me is that I've learned a lot about how the media works in general vis a vis corporate sponsors and cozy relationships with governmental and non-governmental entities. In order to maintain access to these sources, "journalists" do not wish to offend them, hence, the disservice we see gaming dedicated sites doing to consumers is mirrored in that being done by our so-called "free press" to citizens in democratic societies. 

     

    When logical arguments are brought up in criticism of this status quo, you get the insulting defenders who use argumentum ad hominem, name calling, and basic e-thuggery , trying to beat down criticism by labeling it as "whining" (similar to the mindsets of brownshirts in a historical context, perhaps) to support their masters. Of course, this is not to say that every complaining post is valid, but I have seen very eloquent, intelligent, and relevent posts dismissed out of hand by apparent morons, who barely know how to type.

     

    Not only applied to D3, but to games in general, is the vast scale of dumbing down and limits on options (just taking character creation and specialization as one example). One could argue that is merely a reflection of how society is changing, in forcing standardization, conformity, and homogonization on us -- all to milk us of our hard earned cash,aka our life's energy rendered in fungible form.

     

    So the mmorpg sphere is an interesting little microcosm.

     

    EDIT: Obviously, if a media source is  "free" for consumers, that source is working to advertise and promote for its biggest sponsors. So any articles written in such sources have to be read in that light, whether it's this site or CNN.  Good intelligence (information) costs money and/or time spent researching. Otherwise, you are getting someone else's agenda all for "free."

    It took you getting cozy with gov and non gov agencies to figure this one out?

     

    They chose the wrong person to get cozy with. 

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    hmm .. guys .. read their FAQ.

    Blizz is not geting 15% on teh RMAH. It is getting $1 per transaction. It is 1% for a $100 item, and 10% for a $10 one.

    15% only applies to commodity in the RMAH.

    Actually you should reread their FAQ, they get 15% when you transfere it to paypal.  On commodities they get 15% at sale and then another 15% when transfering.

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     Blizzard isn't a bank. They don't lend out depositor money or invest it to make a profit. How much of a fee is appropriate depends on overhead. Doing a lot of small transactions carries a high overhead. The money goes in the money goes out. The volume, size, and percentages of these transactions are peanuts.  

    So you know they dont invest it?

    Given the fee, we can assume people will either use the money to buy blizz products or keep it there as long as possible, or do you see players paying in 5 bucks every week and withdrawing it? As for the "inner" overhead of running the ah, we already payed a good chunk of that within our 60 bucks a box. The rest depends on paypal fees, which has a extensive plan, probably negotiable for someone like blizz, in the end, in numbers with a bulk business discount on their page, 4.9% for 10 bucks to 2% for 250, so 10-13% for blizz, without any special deal from paypal.

    Flame on!

    :)

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     Blizzard isn't a bank. They don't lend out depositor money or invest it to make a profit. How much of a fee is appropriate depends on overhead. Doing a lot of small transactions carries a high overhead. The money goes in the money goes out. The volume, size, and percentages of these transactions are peanuts.  

    So you know they dont invest it?

    Given the fee, we can assume people will either use the money to buy blizz products or keep it there as long as possible, or do you see players paying in 5 bucks every week and withdrawing it? As for the "inner" overhead of running the ah, we already payed a good chunk of that within our 60 bucks a box. The rest depends on paypal fees, which has a extensive plan, probably negotiable for someone like blizz, in the end, in numbers with a bulk business discount on their page, 4.9% for 10 bucks to 2% for 250, so 10-13% for blizz, without any special deal from paypal.

    Flame on!

    :)

     They invest what they earn in making games. The auction house may provide a small cashflow but they don't play the market withany of their cash. If they need to use the profits from box sales to support the auction house that would indicate they were losing money not making it.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    hmm .. guys .. read their FAQ.

    Blizz is not geting 15% on teh RMAH. It is getting $1 per transaction. It is 1% for a $100 item, and 10% for a $10 one.

    15% only applies to commodity in the RMAH.

    Actually you should reread their FAQ, they get 15% when you transfere it to paypal.  On commodities they get 15% at sale and then another 15% when transfering.

     That's the whole point. The "they" that gets the lion's share of the 15% for the transfer is paypal not Blizzard.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     That's the whole point. The "they" that gets the lion's share of the 15% for the transfer is paypal not Blizzard.

    Paypal's listed fees for other services:

    https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=merchant/merchant_fees

    https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

    Why are you claiming that paypal gets most of the 15% when you don't even know?

  • PainlezzPainlezz Laguna Hills, CAPosts: 616Member Uncommon

    Where is the proof/story/source on this?  All i see is an OP who wrote nothing but a title....

  • SuprGamerXSuprGamerX Montreal, QCPosts: 531Member

     Heh , D3 is already dead and Blizzard won by fooling everyone including myself at buying the game , let's see how their precious "Titan" will do once release , because I doubt everyone who bought a crappy version of Diablo will forget what they wasted 60$ on, anytime soon.   Blizzard is on my block list forever , no matter what they come up with even if Titan becomes the next WoW , I won't care and got 0 "ZERO" respect for them.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     That's the whole point. The "they" that gets the lion's share of the 15% for the transfer is paypal not Blizzard.

    Paypal's listed fees for other services:

    https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=merchant/merchant_fees

    https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

    Why are you claiming that paypal gets most of the 15% when you don't even know?

    Because Blizzard said they do. Because paypal is absorbing all the risks instead of passing them on to merchants like they usually do. If you've ever dealt with paypal you know how hard it is to get your money if a deal gets a little sideways or a payer turns out to be a thief. Blizzard got far better terms from paypal than any ordinary merchant can.  Paypal has been chomping at the bit to get into new markets.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

    Because Blizzard said they do. Because paypal is absorbing all the risks instead of passing them on to merchants like they usually do. If you've ever dealt with paypal you know how hard it is to get your money if a deal gets a little sideways or a payer turns out to be a thief. Blizzard got far better terms from paypal than any ordinary merchant can.  Paypal has been chomping at the bit to get into new markets.

    Do you have a link of blizzard saying that paypal is getting most of the transaction fee?

    I'm sorry but I don't believe you.  I think blizzard might've said someone else and you just took it the wrong way.  Reading most of your posts on this topic you seem to make up and plug in whatever you want to try and prove some incoherent point..  I don't know what your deal is, maybe you think this game needs a white knight or maybe you just like playing advocate - who knows.

    Even though I don't particularly like the RMAH, d3 isn't a bad game.  I've stopped playing but I got my 60 bucks out of it and will consider returning for any future expansions.  The fact remains, Blizzard wants to make money off of the RMAH and anyone who says different is either hired by blizzard to play crowd control or a blind fan.

  • freegamesfreegames san gabriel, CAPosts: 158Member

    I knew the RMAH was just a way to make blizzard obscene amounts of money from fools.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member

    I sold an item for $1.50. Blizzard took 1$. I made $0.50. I stopped using the RMAH.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen

    Do you have a link of blizzard saying that paypal is getting most of the transaction fee?

     You're never going to see Blizzard put that in writing. Corporations do not divulge that sort of information. But that's what's happening for the reasons I said. Believe what you want.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     Blizzard isn't a bank. They don't lend out depositor money or invest it to make a profit. How much of a fee is appropriate depends on overhead. Doing a lot of small transactions carries a high overhead. The money goes in the money goes out. The volume, size, and percentages of these transactions are peanuts.  

    So you know they dont invest it?

    Given the fee, we can assume people will either use the money to buy blizz products or keep it there as long as possible, or do you see players paying in 5 bucks every week and withdrawing it? As for the "inner" overhead of running the ah, we already payed a good chunk of that within our 60 bucks a box. The rest depends on paypal fees, which has a extensive plan, probably negotiable for someone like blizz, in the end, in numbers with a bulk business discount on their page, 4.9% for 10 bucks to 2% for 250, so 10-13% for blizz, without any special deal from paypal.

    Flame on!

    :)

     They invest what they earn in making games. The auction house may provide a small cashflow but they don't play the market withany of their cash. If they need to use the profits from box sales to support the auction house that would indicate they were losing money not making it.

    Well, [mod edit], if they manage to loose money with 1 buck per sale and 15% due to fraud or just a small number of sales WHILE already owning most of the money, that would be quite the achievment, [mod edit]

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,938Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     That's the whole point. The "they" that gets the lion's share of the 15% for the transfer is paypal not Blizzard.

    Paypal's listed fees for other services:

    https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=merchant/merchant_fees

    https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

    Why are you claiming that paypal gets most of the 15% when you don't even know?

    Because Blizzard said they do. Because paypal is absorbing all the risks instead of passing them on to merchants like they usually do. If you've ever dealt with paypal you know how hard it is to get your money if a deal gets a little sideways or a payer turns out to be a thief. Blizzard got far better terms from paypal than any ordinary merchant can.  Paypal has been chomping at the bit to get into new markets.

     From the FAQ

    http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/diablo-iii-auction-house-general-information;jsessionid=74D9956E76F1764ED9CDDF69FFDEE16F.blade32_04_bnet-support#q10

    "How do players get “cash” from real-money auction house sales, instead of having the proceeds go into their Battle.net Balance?

    In certain regions, players will have the option of attaching an account with an approved third-party payment service such as PayPal to their Battle.net account. Once this has been completed, proceeds from the sale of items in the real-money auction house can be deposited into their third-party payment service account. “Cashing out” would then be handled through the third-party payment service. Sending proceeds to PayPal will be subject to an additional 15% transfer fee if the auction succeeds, calculated based on the amount being transferred. Additional fees from PayPal may apply. Also, any proceeds from the sale of items in the real-money auction house that have been sent to your Battle.net Balance will not be transferrable to the third-party payment service account. Not all regions will support this advanced feature at launch. For more information on cash-out availability and methods, see the Funtionality section of this FAQ.

    "What’s Blizzard’s cut?

    As with other online auction sites and real-world auction houses, our fee structure varies by region. We collect a fixed transaction fee for each piece of equipment sold in the real-money auction house, as well as a percentage-based transaction fee for commodities sold in the real-money auction house. These fees are only assessed if the items are sold. For players who opt to have the proceeds of their auction house sales go to their third-party payment service account (such as PayPal) instead of to their Battle.net Balance, or for those who have exceeded their maximum permitted Battle.net Balance and are required to use a third-party payment service, Blizzard will collect a separate transfer fee. See above for details on the transaction fee in each region; refer to the functionality section for more information on transfer fees and maximum Battle.net Balance."

     

    I believe you have some of your facts wrong.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • NightCloakNightCloak Barrington, ILPosts: 450Member
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     Blizzard isn't a bank. They don't lend out depositor money or invest it to make a profit. How much of a fee is appropriate depends on overhead. Doing a lot of small transactions carries a high overhead. The money goes in the money goes out. The volume, size, and percentages of these transactions are peanuts.  

    So you know they dont invest it?

    Given the fee, we can assume people will either use the money to buy blizz products or keep it there as long as possible, or do you see players paying in 5 bucks every week and withdrawing it? As for the "inner" overhead of running the ah, we already payed a good chunk of that within our 60 bucks a box. The rest depends on paypal fees, which has a extensive plan, probably negotiable for someone like blizz, in the end, in numbers with a bulk business discount on their page, 4.9% for 10 bucks to 2% for 250, so 10-13% for blizz, without any special deal from paypal.

    Flame on!

    :)

     They invest what they earn in making games. The auction house may provide a small cashflow but they don't play the market withany of their cash. If they need to use the profits from box sales to support the auction house that would indicate they were losing money not making it.

    The red highlights are false statements.

    Firstly, the money in your Blizzard account isn't depositor money. You cannot withdraw it. You are essentially buying a gift card or store credit. Blizzard isn't a bank, but that doesn't mean they don't invest money.

    Check out the freaking quarterly reports. Activision-Blizzard holds close to half a billion dollars in investments. Your money sitting in their coffers makes them money. Sure, they will list it as a liability, but its still cash sitting in their bank.

    Oh, I almost forgot a source or something that can back up what I say.

    http://investor.activision.com/results.cfm

    Earnings Release Financial Table. Page 2.

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