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My lessons learned from Pugs.
Meanwhile she's streaming the complete opposite of this article on her twitch stream showcasing she doesn't play like this at all.
Originally posted by zellmer Meanwhile she's streaming the complete opposite of this article on her twitch stream showcasing she doesn't play like this at all.
I haven't played this game in almost a year lol and I, as well as a few friends, PUGged LFR (PUGs are actually what this article is about). I just wanted to get some gear and get back into the swing of things. Today was the first day I've healed heroic dungeons and raids on my Disc Priest in a very, very long time.
If only I were Chuck Norris... then I could have hopped right into heroic raid modes with no gear and just done a single roundhouse kick to kill all the bosses at once.
Adopt a PUG
One problem is, too many MMOs have quests which require a group, but which DON't work with PUGs. Today more and more people depend on PUGs, because people no longer dedicate to guilds as they used to and levelling goes to fast, it's just difficult to stay on track with ingame friends. In days of Everquest, where you were away a couple of days, it didn't matter much, but today when you are away a few days, most of your ingame friends have outlevelled you.
That is why group content must adapt to the times and must be possible for PUG groups. Otherwise a continually larger group of players will simply be locked out of a growing part of the content people paid for. Example are esp. Raids, which are usually so difficult, you can't just join some PUG Raid group. Or same with Arena PVP, where PUGs just suck compared to premades.
In past days PUGs were more an exception, but they became the rule now, and MMOs simply failed to acknowledge that change, and cater only a hardcore dinosaur type of guild dedicated gamer which today isn't the rule anymore.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Sirca Adopt a PUG
Indeed! Their faces are squishie!
Originally posted by HurricanePip Yup. PUGs are great until you realize how much they suck.
This is why I'm liking GW2 all the more these days. You don't need to People PUG, like you do with other "holy trinity" MMO games.
In GW2, you can Heal, you can DPS, and in most cases you can tank (or in the case of hunters & necro's, summon a tank pet). So you can pretty much do anything, so long as you don't tag more than you can deal with.
Also with dynamic events, kill sharing and shared loot, you can just rock up to an event, start blasting away, share in the XP and loot without having to join an annoying PUG. It's very refreshing!
I expect to see Hot Pocket, posting about GW2 soon enough.
I like PUGs a lot, but they're rarely (note I said rarely, not "never") up to the quality of a group formed with friends and/or guild mates. There's a difference between people who want to succeed and people who want the whole group to succeed. Not to mention it's easier to talk to people you already know.
But PUGs are still useful when no one wants to do the content you do beside a handful of strangers also trying to get it done. Better to have a somewhat malformed group than none at all. GW2's got it right and hopefully more games adopt a similar system, where you don't actually have to group with people in order to help each other out. That honestly solves so many problems, it's perfect. Except for dungeons...still have the typical MMO PUG issues with those, mainly because they're so mind-numbingly hard.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I agree that PuG's can be pretty bad, but lets not start throwing stones. We were all at once new players that needed help with something. Maybe that's why I've always seen PuG's as a way to make new friends and help players with less knowledge than myself. See, I always stick up for the underdog and am careful to not be narcistic like the author appears to be. This type of story does nothing to help anyone except to put barriers between the "elite" players and those that just want to play a game. Me? I'll stick to just playing a game and not worrying so much about who's the best at what. Thank god GW2 is coming along. Now I can join my guild family again in a great atmosphere.
Does anyone remember the dragon raids in DAoC? Getting 50 people to come together to kill a dragon was awesome. It took awhile to get everyone there but the wait and seeing all the new faces was worth it. Those were mostly all PuG's led by one strong guild or leader. It worked and was great even if there were mistakes made. One of my fonder memories in gaming.
If i have to pug i will quit first .....its either a great guild or nothing
Elitist guilds are killing mmo's they were fun when we just grouped and had fun . More like a job than a game i feel sad for all the people who take it too serious .
I feel bad for people who refer to their gaming as "their gaming career". With the exception of people like the author who turned it into a career.
Originally posted by Fadari I also started gaming with UO, EQ and AC and I do not, in any way believe that a 12 year old could have played UO under the conditions of that game. You don't have the intellect, thought processes, coordination or even the wisdom/experience at 12 to stay alive long enough to chop wood. Fanboy's may dream about following some young girl gamer, but keep it real. Even your knowledge of WoW is limited. You seem to have no idea what raiding was like before dungeon finders were added to some games and thus the dumbing down of content so uncoordinated groups could get their loot. Just be honest, tell us what you know and really experienced. Maybe an action screenshot would help prove you were there, then again I suppose you can get those anywhere. After you've finished an article/blog, maybe a spell and grammar check might be an idea too. -Lisa (a real female gamer) https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fadari-and-Whizbang/103668596424771
Huh. Sorry, but when I was 12, I was playing Ultima Online (talking circa 98/99). My friends and I, around the same age (10-14), had little issue raiding and pillaging the countryside. You may be shocked to hear, but we also played a few MUDs as well.
Anyhow... Pokket, when you mentioned "hayday of Ultima Online", I was keen on reading the rest of the article, but then you mentioned--in the same paragraph--"champion spawn" and now I can't focus on any of the following text. I'm a Feluccan, and I curse the day the world split. *Shakes fist*
There used to be a forum poster (CoH?) who complained at great length, daily, about the abysmal quality of PuG players and the groups he was getting. You could expect a novel written each day about the stupid, clueless play, simple and repeated mistakes, etc. etc. These horrible PuG groups were the bane of all human existance, PuG players were positively subhuman in every way.
Until someone calmly pointed out that he was a PuG player. "All of your horrible hated PuG groups have exactly one factor in common: you are in them."
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Elikal One problem is, too many MMOs have quests which require a group, but which DON't work with PUGs. Today more and more people depend on PUGs, because people no longer dedicate to guilds as they used to and levelling goes to fast, it's just difficult to stay on track with ingame friends. In days of Everquest, where you were away a couple of days, it didn't matter much, but today when you are away a few days, most of your ingame friends have outlevelled you. That is why group content must adapt to the times and must be possible for PUG groups. Otherwise a continually larger group of players will simply be locked out of a growing part of the content people paid for. Example are esp. Raids, which are usually so difficult, you can't just join some PUG Raid group. Or same with Arena PVP, where PUGs just suck compared to premades. In past days PUGs were more an exception, but they became the rule now, and MMOs simply failed to acknowledge that change, and cater only a hardcore dinosaur type of guild dedicated gamer which today isn't the rule anymore.
Are you the 2008 version of Elikal? I can't think of a recent release that doesn't have cross server dungeon finders/LFG tools and simplified raid dynamics designed to cater to PUG type players. WOW, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, the list goes on and one right?
Except for hard modes, guild raiding seems to have practically died off, (and in TERA people were pugging even hardmodes)
I'd say almost every developer is aware of the needs of the PUG player (look at GW2's design) and is trying very hard to make games more accessable to every player on the server.
Well, except of course perhaps the people who favor the days when only a solid raid guild would master end game content. Those days seem basically over now.
"Winning" at EVE Online since May, 2007!
In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™ "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What does this article say that anyone who has ever played an MMO cant figure out for themselves? Maybe there are people who for some reason like PUGing content that is designed to be progressed through and you have convinced them that they are wrong and should not enjoy it. Other than that this is just a really pointless article.
Another awesome read keep up the great work Pokett!
Rewrote for clarity
I agree with tara. There's not much point in stating the obvious. And not *kinda* obvious...like, really, really, really obvious. Like, it's been posted on the wow forums multiple times per day for nearly a decade obvious. I don't feel that this is unconstructive criticism; I really think that having a *point* should be a fundamental requirement of having a job, much less a column on an extremely popular fansite for engaged MMO players.
I've lurked this site for years and am just now registering so I can ask why this column exists. It would be a breath of fresh air if you explored some interesting topics from a girl-gamer's point of view....or if you just explored interesting topics period. Talking about PUGs is not a bad thing in the least. We really could use some researched insight into how LFD tools, content accessibility, and quick-gearing are affecting the quality and fun of PUGs. You could offer a researched list of ways we can all contribute to making the PUG community better. OR you could offer insight from your vast experience of PUGing of how a good PUG organizer behaves, leads a group, and screens players. You could explore how a "good" player with suboptimal gear can work within the PUG screening system to get a spot.
And, I don't mean to be harsh, but it's not particularly compelling that you downed LK in a PUG, probably with a 20%-30% buff in place. Further, I'm stuck wondering why you would spend countless hours of frustration PUGing instead of going through a few hours of frustration trying to find a guild not comprised of mouth-breathers.
In my profession, if my boss asked me to write a brief, and all I came up with was "The Plaintiff is wrong cuz I sed so," I would be fired instantly. Content matters, especially if you are one of the lucky few with a gaming "career."
Silly me. I simply came here, read the article, enjoyed it -- and now I'm moving on to something else without dissecting the content with a fine tooth comb. Keep the blogs coming Pokket.
Why Hate PUG's?
-Never fails, there is always one or more clueless people that refuse to listen, just have to charge the next room, and couldn't sit still for 5 seconds if their life depended on it... Bouncers anyone? Boingie, boingie, boingie...
-Players that just bought their char last night, playing their brother's/sister's/cousin's character, one dimensional charaters that have no idea they have buffs or support capabilities as long as they can pew-pew-pew...
-Healers that thinks they are gods gifts to Melee or Casting DPS, and don't want to 'waste' their mana to heal...
-Soloers grouping for the first time. (EQ1 Druid in a mid-30's group, "OH! I didn't know my heals worked on others!" /cry )