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A step into the right direction

EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common

Here are some key features that I believe would make the "Holy Grail" mmo for the older generation of mmo gamers. That generation consists of gamers who played EQ, UO, AC, DaOC. Now, these features are geared towards a certain niche and won't accomodate all of those games. I am one of those old generation players and would like to see the mmo industry move into a different direction. Now, I am not saying these features for an mmo are only for the older generation gamer, but more so any gamer that is sick of the new model. These features include the first principles of what mmo's should be and who is not looking for instant gratification.

 

 - A community first game. This means grouping content will be rewarded moreso than solo play. Solo content will be available as well. A ratio of about 60 grouping, and 40 percent solo content.
 
- A game where wisdom and challenge is a factor every time you log in. This does not include time sinks, but moreso strategy of combat, navagation or crafting.
 
- Top heavy PVE oriented gameplay. Hardcore PVE needs to make a comeback but implemented correctly.
 
- Realistic graphics, (no towers for shoulder item graphics) a world that has a balance of realism and fantasy.
 
- A vast seamless world that will captivate you to explore and adventure on a single shard server. Possibly no instances.
 
- In-depth class design which will immerse you directly into a class. Classes are easy to learn but hard to master.
 
- There are dozens of ways to play a class, completely up to the player.
 
- Stats are universal and are not dependent on a set of archetypes.
 
- Two immense combat mechanics that allow tons of strategy with player adaptability within the fluidity of combat. Combat mechanics complement class design to allow a vast array of many options. Must become a tactician. Can't go into many battles without strategy of some sort. 
 
- AI that will be very intelligent. For an example, whereas a more militaristic mob will adapt while in combat to your fighting style so you'd always want to be on your toes.
 
- A death penality that isn't too harsh nor non existent. A death penality that would enhance you to be mor careful on your journeys.
 
- A main plot line that will twist and turn you and flip you upside down. However, players can directly influence the world and the plot to have different possible climax's and outcomes.
 
- A player driven economy with separate crafting classes where player can establish their own markets.
 
- NPC's don't necessarly drop items but materials to make that item. Players get to decide what stats they want to put in different items depending on different variables.
 
- Raid Campaigns for progressing players and end game content that will immerse you into possible real militaristic medieval strategies.
 
 
So what do you think? Do all or most or even some features instrest you? Should this be the way for mmos? Discuss your thhoughts.
 
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Comments

  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common

    Changed the tread title because the previously wsa calling out one crowd when it's not intended for it.

  • rottNrottN OdensePosts: 161Member

    you forgot to add the pvp, and more skill based combat (daoc style) not the buttom mashing or whatever its called :)

  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common
    Originally posted by rottN

    you forgot to add the pvp, and more skill based combat (daoc style) not the buttom mashing or whatever its called :)

    Yeah I like PVP but I'd like to have a top heavy PVE gameplay. It's hard to balance PVE with PVP. You have to give and take one of the two. I am all about balance. You should see my combat mechanics, they are far from button smashing heh. I should elaborate more on that in the OP.

  • rottNrottN OdensePosts: 161Member

    Well it would work out (imo) if there was some kind of "bonus" for lets say owning sertan things/area`s in the world. Im again thinking of the way daoc worked with relics/keeps ect. (im a huge fan of daoc and pvp in general, as you may have noticed)

    I know you cant focus fully on both, but i still think you can make it really close... but again, thats my opinion :)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Eronakis

     - A community first game. This means grouping content will be rewarded moreso than solo play. Solo content will be available as well. A ratio of about 60 grouping, and 40 percent solo content.
     
    Group first is already in WOW. LFD levels much faster, with better items, than solo-ing. "Community first" is a red herring. If i can play with my friends, and make some online, that is quite enough.
     
    - Realistic graphics, (no towers for shoulder item graphics) a world that has a balance of realism and fantasy.
     
    Nah. I much prefer graphics that look good and interesting. It is a fantasy world. There is no reason to be realisitc. I MUCH prefer the animated weapons in WOW (with rotating stuff, or a moving eyeball) than the more boring looiking stuff in SKYRIM. Art design is a preference thing.
     
    - A vast seamless world that will captivate you to explore and adventure on a single shard server. Possibly no instances.
     
    Nah .. won't play a game without instances. I have not yet seen non-instanced dungeons done well.
     
    - There are dozens of ways to play a class, completely up to the player.
     
    Already in games like Diablo 3. For example, there are at least several viable builds for the wiz. In fact, the latest craze is a melee build (which personally i don't like nor use).
     
     
    - AI that will be very intelligent. For an example, whereas a more militaristic mob will adapt while in combat to your fighting style so you'd always want to be on your toes.
     
    Already tried. Back in WOTLK tier 9, there is this faction champion encounter that does not use the trinity. The mobs will use player abilities, and target healers/mage first. The result? Players complained that it is too hard and they nerf it.
     
    The point ... making it too hard, making mob too intelligence is not necessarily fun. Case in point, any PC can run a chess program that beat 99.9999999% of the population. You will have NO CHANCE against it. You know what the devs do? They spent effort making the chess program making human like mistakes .. so the game will be more fun.
     

     

     

  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common

    Well nariusseldon, maybe this style of game is not for you. There are different types of mmo players. Like I said above, these features would be me apt to entice an older generation of mmo players... who don't want the instant gratification...like you do..

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member

    wow. just about everything i'd like to see in an mmo. thanks.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member

    I'm part of the older generation of MMO players and I have no real interest in: challenge being a part of every activity, realistic graphics, seamless world, adaptive AI, the main plot line, or real military strategy in raid campaigns. Actually, did Everquest have even a single one of these things?

    image
  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common
    Originally posted by Disdena

    I'm part of the older generation of MMO players and I have no real interest in: challenge being a part of every activity, realistic graphics, seamless world, adaptive AI, the main plot line, or real military strategy in raid campaigns. Actually, did Everquest have even a single one of these things?

    Well in principle some of the things. The game mechanics for EQ was rather simple but yet was still fun and had a vast array of options. It was still a themepark game.  EQ was very challenging in different aspects. There's a death penality thread on here about how in EQ when you had to be on your toes because of the harsh death penality. Even though the graphics were low, it still felt like a world. In most zones felt like I was traveling in a wilderness if you will. What I was trying to captivate is the EQ principles but yet allow for the new age innovation. Didn't want to write a EQ clone, but something somewhat unique...

  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common

    Hmm Im surprised that not many people commented on this. I suppos everyone still wants the wow model or sandbox..

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Eronakis

    Well nariusseldon, maybe this style of game is not for you. There are different types of mmo players. Like I said above, these features would be me apt to entice an older generation of mmo players... who don't want the instant gratification...like you do..

    hmm .. i *am* the oldest generation of MMO players. I started BEFORE UO in a precursor of MMO called Kingdom of Drakkar.

    But like you said, this style of game is not for me. I don't have that much time anymore, and games need to be fun right from the start. I don't play games to socialize, and i certainly don't play games for the time sinks.

    I quit EQ after 1 year because it wasn't very good in combat mechanics, and it was horrible in camping/time sinks. Modern mmos fixed all those problems.

    Oh, while i play many MMOs (must have 10 on my laptop right now), they don't monopolize my attention. There are other fun entertainment out there.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Disdena

    I'm part of the older generation of MMO players and I have no real interest in: challenge being a part of every activity, realistic graphics, seamless world, adaptive AI, the main plot line, or real military strategy in raid campaigns. Actually, did Everquest have even a single one of these things?

    Well, all EQ has is endless grind and camping.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,010Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Eronakis

    Hmm Im surprised that not many people commented on this. I suppos everyone still wants the wow model or sandbox..

    OP treads dangerously close to many people's TLDR threshold, hence the limited commentary I think.

    Now I need to go back and read it myself.  (hey, it's late on a Friday afternoon) image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,858Member Uncommon

    I often wonder why FFXI is always left off lists of  "old school" MMO's.  It had everything on that list except a seemless world.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by Eronakis

    Here are some key features that I believe would make the "Holy Grail" mmo for the older generation of mmo gamers. That generation consists of gamers who played EQ, UO, AC, DaOC. Now, these features are geared towards a certain niche and won't accomodate all of those games. I am one of those old generation players and would like to see the mmo industry move into a different direction. Now, I am not saying these features for an mmo are only for the older generation gamer, but more so any gamer that is sick of the new model. These features include the first principles of what mmo's should be and who is not looking for instant gratification.

     

     - A community first game. This means grouping content will be rewarded moreso than solo play. Solo content will be available as well. A ratio of about 60 grouping, and 40 percent solo content.
     
    I agree with community first but all content should be geared for a three man group. This ensures that there is alot more content for duos and solo players. I also believe in community projects like building bridges and mining to unlock content.
     
     A game where wisdom and challenge is a factor every time you log in. This does not include time sinks, but moreso strategy of combat, navagation or crafting.
     
    I agree.
     
    - Top heavy PVE oriented gameplay. Hardcore PVE needs to make a comeback but implemented correctly.
     
    Im ok as long as the endgame is not focused on raiding.
     
    - Realistic graphics, (no towers for shoulder item graphics) a world that has a balance of realism and fantasy.
     
    I prefer really good artwork, but im open to realistic graphics as long as they arent too shiny.
     
    - A vast seamless world that will captivate you to explore and adventure on a single shard server. Possibly no instances.
     
    I agree
     
    - In-depth class design which will immerse you directly into a class. Classes are easy to learn but hard to master.
     
    I would prefer unique skill based design.
     
    - There are dozens of ways to play a class, completely up to the player.
     
    Sure, why not.
     
    - Stats are universal and are not dependent on a set of archetypes.
     
    i prefer minimal stats.
     
     
    - Two immense combat mechanics that allow tons of strategy with player adaptability within the fluidity of combat. Combat mechanics complement class design to allow a vast array of many options. Must become a tactician. Can't go into many battles without strategy of some sort. 
     
    I would like  real time combat with depth. Easy to learn , hard to master.
     
    - AI that will be very intelligent. For an example, whereas a more militaristic mob will adapt while in combat to your fighting style so you'd always want to be on your toes.
     
    I would like intelligence of ai to match the mobs.. bears act like bears.. soldiers act like soldiers...
     
    - A death penality that isn't too harsh nor non existent. A death penality that would enhance you to be mor careful on your journeys.
     
    I prefer a life bonus where life gets a little easier and a small number of skills become available for success in combat. The bonus would have 4 tiers and you move back and forth among the tiers as you die or survive.
     
    - A main plot line that will twist and turn you and flip you upside down. However, players can directly influence the world and the plot to have different possible climax's and outcomes.
     
    I would like 3 main pve "enemies" that are always trying to seige the player population.
     
    - A player driven economy with separate crafting classes where player can establish their own markets.
     
    I prefer that any player can get all the skills but only use a few at a time.
     
    - NPC's don't necessarly drop items but materials to make that item. Players get to decide what stats they want to put in different items depending on different variables.
     
    I prefer both items and materials that can be manipulated by those with creafting skills.
     
    - Raid Campaigns for progressing players and end game content that will immerse you into possible real militaristic medieval strategies.
     
    raids only through the world enemy seiges on the player populations.
     
     
    So what do you think? Do all or most or even some features instrest you? Should this be the way for mmos? Discuss your thhoughts.
     

     see above in green!

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,010Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Eronakis

    Well nariusseldon, maybe this style of game is not for you. There are different types of mmo players. Like I said above, these features would be me apt to entice an older generation of mmo players... who don't want the instant gratification...like you do..

    hmm .. i *am* the oldest generation of MMO players. I started BEFORE UO in a precursor of MMO called Kingdom of Drakkar.

    But like you said, this style of game is not for me. I don't have that much time anymore, and games need to be fun right from the start. I don't play games to socialize, and i certainly don't play games for the time sinks.

    I quit EQ after 1 year because it wasn't very good in combat mechanics, and it was horrible in camping/time sinks. Modern mmos fixed all those problems.

    Oh, while i play many MMOs (must have 10 on my laptop right now), they don't monopolize my attention. There are other fun entertainment out there.

    Now this makes a point about you more than anything else, you really aren't a MMORPG player, you are a game player.  (like, an arcade game player)  image

    You like jumping in and out, MMO, single player, probably even a few consoles, (bet you wish you could put a quarter in the slot) image  but the traditional MMORPG player generally sticks with one or two MMORPGs over the long term.

    I think that's the sort of target market the OP is aiming for in his suggestions, and I don't think age has much to do with it, just a matter of what people look for in their gaming.

    Now, back to the OP, trouble with many of the suggestions is they are very broad, and would be interpreted quite differently by various player types.  It's hard to take those concepts and deliver them in a way that appeals to a broad enough group of players.

    Look at your response to his suggestion of a more group oriented game, you point out the latest LFG/Dungeon finder tools and say, "see, plenty of grouping".  Yeah, you guys are all playing together, but you aren't grouping (as in socializing) in the same manner that was done in years past.

    So they may look the same, but they are worlds apart, and therin lies the problem.  You like the tools, I agree they are necessary due to the modern game MMORPG design, but they aren't the same thing at all as what the OP is describing.

    Unfortunately, what the OP also said is no time sinks, he doesn't realize the forced down time in between combat was a vital component of the grouping mechanics back in the day because it gave players time to actually socialize.  When your group might have to wait anywhere from 3 - 10 minutes for power to come back/rez sickness to wear off it gave you a great opportunity to socialize, (or go read, I did a lot of that too, especially on 15 minute horse rides in DAOC) but this isn't something a person like you enjoyed I gather.  

    And you were in the majority, which Developers figured out and started changing MMO's to fit what the larger community wanted.

    Pity.

    Oh well, doesn't really matter what we say here, unless I win the $500M Powerball we're never going to see an old school MMORPG like I would like to see made, so better find the fun where you can.   Fortunately things are looking up a bit with some of the more modern titles.

     

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Eronakis

    Hmm Im surprised that not many people commented on this. I suppos everyone still wants the wow model or sandbox..

    OP treads dangerously close to many people's TLDR threshold, hence the limited commentary I think.

    Now I need to go back and read it myself.  (hey, it's late on a Friday afternoon) image

    You're better than that Ky, come on!  lol

    But seriously, I did assume and categorize that if one did play those games, these features would entice them. I should of named the thread, "Is this a step into teh right direction?"

  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Eronakis

    Well nariusseldon, maybe this style of game is not for you. There are different types of mmo players. Like I said above, these features would be me apt to entice an older generation of mmo players... who don't want the instant gratification...like you do..

    hmm .. i *am* the oldest generation of MMO players. I started BEFORE UO in a precursor of MMO called Kingdom of Drakkar.

    But like you said, this style of game is not for me. I don't have that much time anymore, and games need to be fun right from the start. I don't play games to socialize, and i certainly don't play games for the time sinks.

    I quit EQ after 1 year because it wasn't very good in combat mechanics, and it was horrible in camping/time sinks. Modern mmos fixed all those problems.

    Oh, while i play many MMOs (must have 10 on my laptop right now), they don't monopolize my attention. There are other fun entertainment out there.

    Yeah, everyone has different styles of games they like. I don't mind some instant gratification unless it offers a challenge. I remember when I first played EQ, I made a Paladin and I was like auto attack... really.. I went back a few months later and made a wizard and enjoyed it ever since.

  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common
    Originally posted by rungard
     
    - A death penality that isn't too harsh nor non existent. A death penality that would enhance you to be mor careful on your journeys.
     
    I prefer a life bonus where life gets a little easier and a small number of skills become available for success in combat. The bonus would have 4 tiers and you move back and forth among the tiers as you die or survive.
     

     

     see above in green!

    Thanks for the taking the time and comment rungard. Seems like we agree with most of the stuff, except for the big one being classes vs skills heh. Your idea for rewarding staying alive versus death is actually interesting. I wonder what kind of reception it would get and how it could be balanced within gameplay.

  • HellSingsHellSings Toronto, ONPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Eronakis

    Here are some key features that I believe would make the "Holy Grail" mmo for the older generation of mmo gamers. That generation consists of gamers who played EQ, UO, AC, DaOC. Now, these features are geared towards a certain niche and won't accomodate all of those games. I am one of those old generation players and would like to see the mmo industry move into a different direction. Now, I am not saying these features for an mmo are only for the older generation gamer, but more so any gamer that is sick of the new model. These features include the first principles of what mmo's should be and who is not looking for instant gratification.

     

     - A community first game. This means grouping content will be rewarded moreso than solo play. Solo content will be available as well. A ratio of about 60 grouping, and 40 percent solo content.
     
    Disagree. It should always be the gamers choice to solo if they wish to w/o being penalized.
     
    - A game where wisdom and challenge is a factor every time you log in. This does not include time sinks, but moreso strategy of combat, navagation or crafting.
     
    Agreed.
     
    - Top heavy PVE oriented gameplay. Hardcore PVE needs to make a comeback but implemented correctly.
     
    Disagree. I feel there needs to be a balance of both, PvE and PvP.
     
    - Realistic graphics, (no towers for shoulder item graphics) a world that has a balance of realism and fantasy.
     
    Depends on the game world itself.
     
    - A vast seamless world that will captivate you to explore and adventure on a single shard server. Possibly no instances.
     
    Not everyone likes exploring, not everyone hates instances. It should be a player choice.
     
    - In-depth class design which will immerse you directly into a class. Classes are easy to learn but hard to master.
     
    Interesting. Care to provide examples?
     
    - There are dozens of ways to play a class, completely up to the player.
     
    See above.
     
    - Stats are universal and are not dependent on a set of archetypes.
     
    - Two immense combat mechanics that allow tons of strategy with player adaptability within the fluidity of combat. Combat mechanics complement class design to allow a vast array of many options. Must become a tactician. Can't go into many battles without strategy of some sort. 
     
    Is this an MMO? Or RTS? Provide examples to clarify.
     
    - AI that will be very intelligent. For an example, whereas a more militaristic mob will adapt while in combat to your fighting style so you'd always want to be on your toes.
     
    Agreed.
     
    - A death penality that isn't too harsh nor non existent. A death penality that would enhance you to be mor careful on your journeys.
     
    Agreed.
     
    - A main plot line that will twist and turn you and flip you upside down. However, players can directly influence the world and the plot to have different possible climax's and outcomes.
     
    A climatic main story with many twists, sure. Disagreed with players having influence on someone elses story.
     
    - A player driven economy with separate crafting classes where player can establish their own markets.
     
    - NPC's don't necessarly drop items but materials to make that item. Players get to decide what stats they want to put in different items depending on different variables.
     
    Disagree.
     
    - Raid Campaigns for progressing players and end game content that will immerse you into possible real militaristic medieval strategies.
     
    Like what? Provide examples to clarify.
     
    So what do you think? Do all or most or even some features instrest you? Should this be the way for mmos? Discuss your thhoughts.
     

    See above in red. I'm not sure whether you want an MMO, RTS, CIV or all 3.

  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common
    Originally posted by GriselBrand

    See above in red. I'm not sure whether you want an MMO, RTS, CIV or all 3.

    MMORPG. I can see how you got confused with some RTS elements. I could clarify wit hall of the stuff but I doubt you'd want to read a lot of pages of game mechanics. Well it's called an mmorpg.. massively multiplayer. That incorperates team play/grouping. 90% of games that have solo first gameplay has a terrible community. Games that focus on grouping content will more than likely have a better community. It creates player reputation of knowing who to group with and who not to group with ect. I'd rather play an mmo with a better community than with a lot of rude selfish people... But before I even take time to respond in detail, could you at least explain why you disagree? That's fine that you do, no big deal, but without substance..

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
     

    Now this makes a point about you more than anything else, you really aren't a MMORPG player, you are a game player.  (like, an arcade game player)  image

    Yes, i was never a MMO exclusive player. There are too many other fun things in life.

    You like jumping in and out, MMO, single player, probably even a few consoles, (bet you wish you could put a quarter in the slot) image  but the traditional MMORPG player generally sticks with one or two MMORPGs over the long term.

    No quarter. F2P is the way to go. I did play EQ for 1 year, WOW for years, but others MMOs in short bursts.

    I think that's the sort of target market the OP is aiming for in his suggestions, and I don't think age has much to do with it, just a matter of what people look for in their gaming.

    Now, back to the OP, trouble with many of the suggestions is they are very broad, and would be interpreted quite differently by various player types.  It's hard to take those concepts and deliver them in a way that appeals to a broad enough group of players.

    Look at your response to his suggestion of a more group oriented game, you point out the latest LFG/Dungeon finder tools and say, "see, plenty of grouping".  Yeah, you guys are all playing together, but you aren't grouping (as in socializing) in the same manner that was done in years past.

    And i don't play games to socialize. If i want to socialize online, i go to a chat room. Grouping means "kill some stuff" with other people. You can cut & dice it .. but grouping means playing in a group.

    So they may look the same, but they are worlds apart, and therin lies the problem.  You like the tools, I agree they are necessary due to the modern game MMORPG design, but they aren't the same thing at all as what the OP is describing.

    It is not a "problem" to me. It is only a problem if you want to "socialize" before you group. I don't. Plus, back in the days WITHOUT lfd, there is not much different .. you shoult "lfg" until you get a group and most don't socialize much anyway.

    Unfortunately, what the OP also said is no time sinks, he doesn't realize the forced down time in between combat was a vital component of the grouping mechanics back in the day because it gave players time to actually socialize.  When your group might have to wait anywhere from 3 - 10 minutes for power to come back/rez sickness to wear off it gave you a great opportunity to socialize, (or go read, I did a lot of that too, especially on 15 minute horse rides in DAOC) but this isn't something a person like you enjoyed I gather.  

    Won't play a game that requires waiting of 10 min again. It was BORING .. and i don't know why i did that plenty in EQ. Probably becuase i finished Diablo (1) and there was no other good hack-n-slash. If i want to chat with someon for 10 min, i would not be playing a VIDEO GAME.

    And you were in the majority, which Developers figured out and started changing MMO's to fit what the larger community wanted.

    Pity.

    Oh well, doesn't really matter what we say here, unless I win the $500M Powerball we're never going to see an old school MMORPG like I would like to see made, so better find the fun where you can.   Fortunately things are looking up a bit with some of the more modern titles.

    There is always the indie market and mods. 

     

     

     

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Eronakis

    Here are some key features that I believe would make the "Holy Grail" mmo for the older generation of mmo gamers. That generation consists of gamers who played EQ, UO, AC, DaOC. Now, these features are geared towards a certain niche and won't accomodate all of those games. I am one of those old generation players and would like to see the mmo industry move into a different direction. Now, I am not saying these features for an mmo are only for the older generation gamer, but more so any gamer that is sick of the new model. These features include the first principles of what mmo's should be and who is not looking for instant gratification.

     

     - A community first game. This means grouping content will be rewarded moreso than solo play. Solo content will be available as well. A ratio of about 60 grouping, and 40 percent solo content.
    I want this.
     
    - A game where wisdom and challenge is a factor every time you log in. This does not include time sinks, but moreso strategy of combat, navagation or crafting.
    I want more challenge for sure (no more D3 bordom ez modes) but I'm not sure If I want what you want. I like faster paced combat over slow strategic combat.
     
    - Top heavy PVE oriented gameplay. Hardcore PVE needs to make a comeback but implemented correctly.
    I'm fine with this. PvP is frequently tacked on. IMO I want it done well with open world pvp or not included.
     
    - Realistic graphics, (no towers for shoulder item graphics) a world that has a balance of realism and fantasy.
    Realistic is ok or partially stylize is ok but overly stylized (WoW) doesn't appeal to me.
     
    - A vast seamless world that will captivate you to explore and adventure on a single shard server. Possibly no instances.
    I would love this. I want worlds to explore not a levels/Maps to run through. Doesn't have to be 100% seamless just as long as the loading between zones isn't so intrusively breaking immersion.
     
    - In-depth class design which will immerse you directly into a class. Classes are easy to learn but hard to master.
    Classes are fine as long as there are many of them with a lot of diversity. Otherwise make it classless (skill system).
     
    - There are dozens of ways to play a class, completely up to the player.
    Not sure how you can play a class so many different ways. There usually is a few "right" ways to play it or you can play it however you wipe your hand over 0-9.
     
    - Stats are universal and are not dependent on a set of archetypes.
    Stats may not be dependant on a class but still there will always be a select few stats that are benefitial to certain classes (str not useful for mages unless you play the Herald of Xotli type mage).
     
    - Two immense combat mechanics that allow tons of strategy with player adaptability within the fluidity of combat. Combat mechanics complement class design to allow a vast array of many options. Must become a tactician. Can't go into many battles without strategy of some sort. 
    Here we may differ. You like your strategy and I like my quick-on-the-fly tactical gameplay. I don't think every battle should require a plan but after having played EvE I can see the enjoyment of preparing for fighting certain types of enemies and gear up accordingly. Or if that doesn't work you can flee, refit for improvement, then try again. But for the most part I want most battles to be won by coming up with a strat mid-fight.

    - AI that will be very intelligent. For an example, whereas a more militaristic mob will adapt while in combat to your fighting style so you'd always want to be on your toes.
    Sadly this is rare to find in MMOs and is something that would greatly improve the dynamics of pve combat. A mob that runs from you, calls for help, or dodges your attacks is better than one that places aoe circles for you to avoid. They definately need more behaviors compared to ability sequence scipts that they have.
     
    - A death penality that isn't too harsh nor non existent. A death penality that would enhance you to be mor careful on your journeys.
    Something that has been discussed a lot. It does need to be harsh enough but only so much. I want the penalty to feel more like a feature than a needless timesink.
     
    - A main plot line that will twist and turn you and flip you upside down. However, players can directly influence the world and the plot to have different possible climax's and outcomes.
    I'm not sure if you mean some sort of questline here or some kind of long term story. I would enjoy if there was an actual story of what is currently going on in an MMO where the events would be reflected around the game world (permanently). Things like live events or dynamic events would change the course of the story.
     
    - A player driven economy with separate crafting classes where player can establish their own markets.
    Sure.
     
    - NPC's don't necessarly drop items but materials to make that item. Players get to decide what stats they want to put in different items depending on different variables.
    Always liked this because some loot would be junk to some but valuable resources to others depending on your skill set.
     
    - Raid Campaigns for progressing players and end game content that will immerse you into possible real militaristic medieval strategies.
    Unsure... I would like to see more mid level raids but leveling would need to be slowed down so that there was a reason to do it.
     
     
    So what do you think? Do all or most or even some features instrest you? Should this be the way for mmos? Discuss your thhoughts.
     

     

    The key features that I look for in a MMO or the ones that I much rather have are..

    Large open world (better if seamless) which isn't by a strict linear map and hub design.

    Progression with a lot of choices either with classes(many to choose from) or a skill system where you build your own class to fill a role.

    Other non-combat fun things that you can progress through. Housing, skill based minigames(Neocron), card games(VG-Diplomacy), etc.

     

  • HellSingsHellSings Toronto, ONPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Eronakis
    Originally posted by GriselBrand

    See above in red. I'm not sure whether you want an MMO, RTS, CIV or all 3.

    MMORPG. I can see how you got confused with some RTS elements. I could clarify wit hall of the stuff but I doubt you'd want to read a lot of pages of game mechanics. Well it's called an mmorpg.. massively multiplayer. That incorperates team play/grouping. 90% of games that have solo first gameplay has a terrible community. Games that focus on grouping content will more than likely have a better community. It creates player reputation of knowing who to group with and who not to group with ect. I'd rather play an mmo with a better community than with a lot of rude selfish people... But before I even take time to respond in detail, could you at least explain why you disagree? That's fine that you do, no big deal, but without substance..

    I've already explained why I disagree for most of them. The ones I found confusing, I asked for explanations. The term MMORPG means Massively Multiplayer Online, it does not mean you are FORCED to group. It just means you share a world with thousands of others. GW2 has got this right, it doesn't penalize players for wanting to solo. This is subjective, you obviously disagree with me, but it boils down to personal opinion nothing else.

  • Ashen_XAshen_X PLEASANT HILL, CAPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by Eronakis

    Here are some key features that I believe would make the "Holy Grail" mmo for the older generation of mmo gamers. That generation consists of gamers who played EQ, UO, AC, DaOC. Now, these features are geared towards a certain niche and won't accomodate all of those games. I am one of those old generation players and would like to see the mmo industry move into a different direction. Now, I am not saying these features for an mmo are only for the older generation gamer, but more so any gamer that is sick of the new model. These features include the first principles of what mmo's should be and who is not looking for instant gratification.

     

     - A community first game. This means grouping content will be rewarded moreso than solo play. Solo content will be available as well. A ratio of about 60 grouping, and 40 percent solo content.
     
    I think that I agree with the concept behind this point, but it is not explained sufficiently to be sure. "Rewarded moreso," how for example ?
     
    - A game where wisdom and challenge is a factor every time you log in. This does not include time sinks, but moreso strategy of combat, navagation or crafting.
     
    Can't really agree with this because combat, navigation, and crafting are time sinks in their own right. Time sinks are not bad...badly implemented time sinks are bad.
     
    - Top heavy PVE oriented gameplay. Hardcore PVE needs to make a comeback but implemented correctly.
     
    In theory I agree, but again vague terminology prevents surety. What does, "implemented correctly," mean ? After all there is no one correct manner of PvE implementation. Fun/entertainment value is subjective.
     
    - Realistic graphics, (no towers for shoulder item graphics) a world that has a balance of realism and fantasy.
     
    I question this point because it is so very subjective. Where other points you raised seem to be made in the hopes of capturing the essence of the desires of a certain demographic, this one seems just a personal art preference. It would have been better left out in my opinion.
     
    - A vast seamless world that will captivate you to explore and adventure on a single shard server. Possibly no instances. 
     
    Instanced zones, dungeons, what-have-you, have no impact ont he ability to explore or adventure. You can only be in one spot at a time so having a different portion of the continent, or another continent entirely, be a separate instance is irrelevant to immersion, exploration, or adventure. Another personal preference element I assume.
     
    - In-depth class design which will immerse you directly into a class. Classes are easy to learn but hard to master.
     
    I would change this to, "in depth character design." Classes are not necessary to achieve the rest of what you mention in this point. I enjoy both class based and non class based character design.
     
    - There are dozens of ways to play a class, completely up to the player.
     
    Agreed. Wholeheartedly.
     
    - Stats are universal and are not dependent on a set of archetypes.
     
    I prefer as few stats as possible, with an emphasis on skills and spells. Otherwise, agreed.
     
    - Two immense combat mechanics that allow tons of strategy with player adaptability within the fluidity of combat. Combat mechanics complement class design to allow a vast array of many options. Must become a tactician. Can't go into many battles without strategy of some sort.
     
    Entirely too vague to comment on.
     
    - AI that will be very intelligent. For an example, whereas a more militaristic mob will adapt while in combat to your fighting style so you'd always want to be on your toes.
     
    Do you really mean militaristic, or perhaps aggressive or combative ? Personally I think mob AI should be tied to the nature of the mob. Mountain lions are not intelligent and rely on very limited, instinct driven, tactics. A special operations squad is highly trained and adaptable. The AI should treat them very differently.
     
    - A death penality that isn't too harsh nor non existent. A death penality that would enhance you to be mor careful on your journeys.
     
    Agreed.
     
    - A main plot line that will twist and turn you and flip you upside down. However, players can directly influence the world and the plot to have different possible climax's and outcomes.
     
    If there are 100,000 players driving the plot in 50,000 different directions, how do you keep the climax relevant to everyone ?
     
    - A player driven economy with separate crafting classes where player can establish their own markets.
     
    So long as it is possble to be fully competitive in game without having to rely on crafting. I dont adventure to spend my time making new shoes. Nor do I adventure to make the guy who makes shoes rich. I suppose that if crafting were handled a bit more realistically it wouldnt bother me as much. Spend weeks or months of real time to make that suit of armor or that sword.
     
    - NPC's don't necessarly drop items but materials to make that item. Players get to decide what stats they want to put in different items depending on different variables.
     
    No. crafting materials and item drops should both be options. Dont force the guy who doesnt like crafting into playing a crafter.
     
    - Raid Campaigns for progressing players and end game content that will immerse you into possible real militaristic medieval strategies.
     
    To be honest my initial reaction to this statement is that it could only be made by someone lacking a solid understanding of real world medieval military strategies and history. A game that heavily emphasizes sitting behind (or in front of) walls hoping that more of your enemy's forces die of disease and malnutrition than your own is not likely to be exciting.
     
    So what do you think? Do all or most or even some features instrest you? Should this be the way for mmos? Discuss your thhoughts.
     

    Responses in lime.

    When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.

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